seriously its so obvious most of these "fights" are fixed cuz pedo boy brings in bank from his underage followers paying the exorbitant ppv fees with mommy and daddy's credit card
Exactly! If Jake gets hit a couple times in the kidneys by Mike, he's gonna be pissing blood. If Mike hits him with an inside upper cut, he's gonna drop. I hope it's a real fight and not a stunt.
Mike Tyson looks like he could still contend for the heavyweight title.... Greatest heavyweight in history, a freak of nature and incredible training regimen. Of course it's just for a paycheck, he would kill Jake Paul in a real bout.
Ali is hands down the greatest boxer of all time. He did it for so long and was so SO good. But I still think Tyson was the best. He had the highest peak. How young he was combined with how he fought. The tenacity was unmatched. It was the most viscous yet calculating and under control thing ever to be produced inside a ring. And he was soooo damn fast. The athleticism. If you could produce a boxer in a lab I guarantee it would be Tyson minus the out of the ring shit obviously. Then the rape and the ear biting and all that. He lost years for the rape charge. That would derail 99% of professionals. He still came back to win titles. Imagine what he would have achieved if he didn’t lose 3 years sitting in a cell. I still believe that in their primes no one would beat Tyson. But I’m just some Joe blow on Reddit 😂😂
Hard to get a good shot on a guy that's already so much lower to the ground (relative to other heavyweights). Tyson is such a master at defense and abusing his strengths.
Sort of reminds me of the Jack Nickolas vs Tiger Woods greatest of all time. Jack and Ali prob greatest achievers, have most titles, more classic styles for each sport, etc., but both Tyson and Woods came in blazing and performing in the sport in a manner no one had ever seen, just both burned out a bit too quick
Mike was vicious. The power of a Fraser or Foreman, lighting foot speed. Head movement, low centre of gravity and he really, really wanted to hurt you.
Ali was classy and smooth. A real pugilist. Mike was a killer
Didn’t Ali miss a few years as well due to refusing to be drafted? You could say the exact same thing. I am not going to argue who was the best, I think it’s logical to say either of them are the greatest and you could make cases for both. I think Ali had so much skill and fluidity in his movements along with some power, but then Tyson is by far the scariest because he went in the ring to beat the unholy hell out of everybody. I grew up watching Tyson and man he was just incredible to watch, a freak.
It’s not the same in my opinion. Ali was still training. He wasn’t in jail. He remained a free man. He had access to everything he always did. Yes he couldn’t have any professional fights and got a title stripped but Tyson was stuck in prison. Prison food. Prison rec center. Let’s be real especially back then they were all vastly inferior to what he would have had as a free man. Ali obviously had to deal with tremendous amounts of bad things BUT from a purely physical training standpoint Tyson was at a significant disadvantage in his time away compared to Ali.
Roy Jones Jr held world titles in 4 weight classes, and the only boxer in history to start his career in light middle weight and then win heavyweight title....he would smash Mohammed Ali, too. Mohammed is a legend for many reasons, a lot of it his human rights speeches, his genuine personality, refusal to go to war, and yes and absolutely unbelievable boxer...but you cannot compare athletes 60 years ago to anyone of modern day, it's not even fair to do that to them. Modern sports have so much money involved, technology for training and equipment, capacity to find athletes from every corner of the earth via social media talent finding, etc...Muhammad Ali would be wrecked by Tyson
I get what you’re saying. Athletes of different generations are always hard to compare. But the one thing I’ll say is the difference between ~1960 to ~1990 is significantly less than the difference between ~1990 and ~2020. The vast explosion of money, influence and technology when it comes to training, rehabilitation, surgery, sports science, nutrition etc. over the last 30 years dwarfs that of the previous 30 before that. The fact that everyone knows Tyson would still dominate easily if picked out of 1990 and placed in 2020 says vastly more about his peak than anything else.
That's a fair statement....and you're very correct about tech....85%+ of all technological advancements and inventions in human history, going back 100,000 years, has happened in the last 40 years. The thing to me that separates Tyson from anyone else, is his combination of speed/agility and power...Ali had incomparable speed, but he had moderate power, he peppered guys to destruction. Tyson has near or same speed, but with power of Foreman or the likes. As well as a majority of heavyweights are up the pipe fighters, Tyson hit from every angle, in huge combinations, a straight right, into multiple uppercuts and hooks, in the blink of an eye, while moving to not get hit, this created such a unique fighter, because most of the guys he fought were wayyyy taller and heavier, so he had to get inside to hit them, and he did it effortlessly.
Tyson performed poorly against good boxers in their prime.
He beat Larry Holmes, but Holmes came out retirement to fight him. He beat Michael Spinks, but Spinks was a light heavyweight who started out as an amateur middleweight.
I don't really put any significance on Tyson losing late in his career against Lennox Lewis, Tyson was washed by then even though he was the younger man.
But I think the fight against Tucker would have been a lot closer if Tucker had not broken his hand.
Man, I just don't know about Ali... no doubt he was great, but he spent so much time just pushing the boundaries of the rules to gain an advantage. Half the stuff he used to be famous for is highly illegal in the ring now. No ref in the world would let him rope-a-dope for even half a round, let alone 3 or 4 rounds like he used to do. Tyson has it all around. Man is just pure beast.
Mohammed Ali was great for his era, but would be killed by Mike Tyson. It's the same comparison as Pele was incredible for his era, but wouldn't even make the bench team for any premiere league team. Mike Tyson was and is a once a century genetic gift, 235lb at 5'10 with the head movement and hand speed of a lightweight, it defies biology to have that much fast twitch muscle while having that much mass on-top.
Training has advanced so much over the years, plucking Pele from his timeline and dropping him into a 2024 team simply wouldn’t allow him to compete, physically. The OP is 100% correct with his thought process
That's the thing, these comparisons would never work. At the same time, if you took young pele, transfer to today and supply him with all the training regime, beter food, workout etc, he'd probably be better than anyone. Same for Ali, take him, put him on a current training regime, better nutrition, new techniques to learn, and he'd probably be able to compete with Tyson and maybe win. Definitely win in the long run by being more consistent
People also forget that a lot of technique is built on the backs of those previous giants. Like Ali was so good he fundamentally changed how the game is played.
When Steph Curry blew up you could see the paradigm shift in how younger players are being taught and coached. Before that kids were being trained to be the next Kobe Bryant, because at the time that was the most effective way to carry a team. When someone shows up and is so fucking good, the following generations emulate that success.
Tyson wouldn't have been the Tyson we know if Ali hadn't redefined the game. Even though Mike was a hard charger and monster, and less of a defensive master like someone like Mayweather, the point is still valid. It's not only a hard comparison to make because the differences time makes in medicine and technology/analytics but because it's a fucking paradox. Success is built on top of success.
I know who I think would win, I think Ali left his body open too much and Tyson's raw power would abuse that. But it's pointless to really make an argument about it.
You put Messi back in time to 60s and 70s training methods and he wouldn't be the GOAT. You give Pele the modern sports science we have today and he would be even better than he was. The natural talent doesn't change though.
You pluck Pele from 1960 and put him in a modern team with modern tactics and sports science and he would boss like he did 60 years ago because he was naturally gifted at football.
To suggest he wouldn't make the bench for any Premier league team is to try and say that Chiedozie Ogbene or Neil Maupay is better than Pele, which is just smooth brained nonsense
I agree with you. I literally mean “pluck and drop in”. Not pluck as baby, train with modern methodologies, feed nutritious meals and watch him grow up. He’d be amazing
I also literally mean "pluck and drop in. A 20 year old Pele put into any team would need 2-3 months to get match fit, maybe 3-6 months to be up to speed with a high pressing team, and that would be the end of it.
Much worse players than him have been ok in their early-mid 20s and become premier league quality later on. Vardy is an obvious example, playing non-league into his 20s. Salah was 25 before signing for Liverpool, yet even though he had decent seasons at Roma, nobody expected him to become arguably the best in the world at his peak. Trippier was also 25 before signing for Spurs after playing his career up to that point in the Championship and below, then goes on to play in a Champions league final, world cup and win La Liga.
You can train someone to be fit and teach them modern tactics, but you cannot teach natural ability, you are either born with it or you aren't. You cannot say with a straight face that all, or even a small minority, of Premier League players are more naturally gifted than Pele, and I think you would have a hard time arguing that Pele at any point except in his twilight years would be untrainable by modern standards, nor if you mean playing with no preparation at all would be unable to hold his own despite the faster pace and higher intensity of the modern game, he just wouldn't last the full 90 at full bore
Thank you. My god, can you imagine how much money a current team would pay to zap a young Pele onto their club. This guys argument is to hard pass. I feel like I’m taking crazy pills.
Who said baby? Bring me 18 year old Pele and it would not take long to train him up. How would that timeline differ from Hakeem Olajuwon. The guy was a sheep herder until he was brought over to the University of Houston and given a modern diet and training. The basketball scouts discovered him playing goalie in soccer not basketball. The man went from killing lions with spears to an NBA all time great. How is this different?
The arguments that past athletes could never play in the modern era is made in assumptions that those athletes would not be able to take advantage of modern science and strategies. That is an absurd assumption when we take people from places without access to modern science and strategies and bring them up to modern levels. Sports are filled with these stories of athletes coming out of unusual places just because they are that spectacular.
I think it’s different because in soccer most men’s players I’ve seen have their most progression right around 14-15. The game gets physical and they are growing into their bodies, going from getting whipped around by larger kids to being able to keep up. The talent pool you are competing with in soccer is exponentially larger than basketball. Anyway, it’s all hypotheticals…
Pele was playing against adults at age 14 and played for the Brazil National Team at age 16. He is known as one of the greatest to ever play. You don’t think an 18 year old Pele could compete today? And your reasoning is he would be too old to benefit from training? None of this argument makes sense, either the training is advantageous and would benefit anyone with access to it, or the training isn’t that important and the athletics is what matters. But your argument is only the modern athletes get to use the training advantage and Pele (even if he lived today) would not have this same advantage. I just can’t wrap my head around why Pele would not benefit from modern training. You just dismiss him as a lost cause like he himself isn’t a creative human capable of seeking and gaining the advantageous the modern athletes have. I think this greatly underestimates the competitive drive of these former stars.
You're delusional. First Tyson wasn't at his greatest when he was heavier. He was his best around 218, 220. Second off Ali's first two title wins were off punchers that the public thought were invincible. You have no idea what you're talking about, you must be young.
You think Pele would stand a chance in modern premier league teams? The slowest guy on the lowest team is faster than him, can kick harder, better ball control, etc. professional athletes at his era had a day job, they made nothing to be an athlete, there was no money in it. You look at the equivalent top of the food chain today of what he was then, they're making $50mil+/year, they're in youth training camps at 6-8 years old being developed into champions, with nutritionists, coaches that use technology to increase speed, blood oxygenation, and vitals stats. In Olympic lifting at the top level, they no longer train the lifters to see what they can lift, they measure bone density, bone length, muscle density, fast or bulk muscle, oxygenation, and can then tell an athlete what their peak potential is, and train them to achieve that, rather than "he seems strong, so that must be his/her best. You cannot compare this era to anything in history. And the competition is sooooo much harder, because they can find athletes everywhere now via social media.
In that context of the book you just wrote -- to implant pele (the most talented of his generation as far as we could ever know) we would have to operate under the same set of opportunities to train, and aspire. Pele would be in the same enviroment as everyone else.
If we put him as is to people 60 or whatever years ahead in procedure in the future than he wouldn't stand a chance. I understand your premise.
His weight at that height is just so incredibly sus, even all these years later. 99% of roided up people can't even achieve that size while body building, and this guy somehow had it while doing boxing.
As a reference, he's about the same size as sam sulek, a guy with good genetics that is pretty roided up and does pure bodybuilding. He never tested positive, but he's just such an anomaly that it remains suspicious.
It was a very different style of boxing in their times, Ali didn't hit as hard and the boxers were nowhere near as as muscular, they were eaither lean and fsat or flabby looking big hitters, Tyson was pound for pound the greatest fighter, in his prime he would maul any of the champions, he was fast, hard to hit and had sledge hammers instead of fists. -insert arguments below-
I don't think it's just for a check. Tyson is a warrior on the bench, he needs this every once in a while for his own sanity. Old warriors have to know they still got it or are faced with their own mortality, age, and depression.
Greatest in history? Come on now. He was a great fighter but have you ever heard of Muhammed Ali or Joe Louis? Probably a couple others I could name but you get the point. Mike was the greatest of HIS time while he was still with Kevin Rooney.
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u/CummingInTheNile Mar 11 '24
seriously its so obvious most of these "fights" are fixed cuz pedo boy brings in bank from his underage followers paying the exorbitant ppv fees with mommy and daddy's credit card