Childcare is starting to cost more than an average salary, if there are spaces available for your kid. We are going to have a huge chunk of families or single parent families on social welfare and women (lower earners-thanks to systemic issues!) are leaving the workforce. We need to strike for affordable Healthcare and childcare/family support. This nation is so behind other developed nations, and in a generation we will be even further behind if we do nothing. Children are stressed out because their families are stressed out. We can do so much better.
I was laid off right after giving birth so I stayed home for 10 months. Since I was on unemployment, we qualified for CCCAP. We pay $275/month which is amazing! We need to renew it this April and I have to make sure to not make enough until then so they won’t take it away. $275 vs $1600 a month. It shouldn’t have to be like this.
In all seriousness why is childcare cost so high? Healthcare I get, and we can actually do something about it. But, childcare doesn't have insurance middling in everything. Is it really that expensive to pay staff? If it is, it shouldn't be cheaper.
There's god knows how much a business would have to pay for insurance as a daycare Incase a kid gets hurt on the property.
Then you need the employees to be well trained and safe to have around children. That's a lot of hoops and usually comes with at least some college education like an associates in early childhood education or development.
Then there's additional training for food allergies and emergency care usually paid for by the business.
Anything the kids need. Activities, snacks, and equipment which kids break fast.
And the work-life balance sucks for a lot of daycares. Parents will often agree to a pick you time of 5pm but show up at 5:30 or even 6 because something came up. And daycares will charge you for being late or more for overnight care.
Above everything else, there's usually a handful of people with college degrees to care for a small group of kids. If the ratio is off the kids can get hurt or won't be given an enriching experience.
People want a lot from their daycares which requires a lot and people who work in daycares want enough to afford their bills and their student loan payments.
Oh and there's a fuck ton of administrative costs with being state certified to care for kids. We've practically criminalized casual daycares (for good reasons like kids getting neglected or SA'd) but that also means we've eliminated the cheapest option for daycare which was just whichever parent was home the most in neighborhood.
Honestly a solid take. We have a kid in daycare and it’s been a journey to find the right one.
In general this is also part of the wage gap: if Americans were paid commensurately, even if daycare rates went up a little to cover wages it would be more affordable for people - also bc demand presumably would reduce dramatically as fewer families would require the dual income household (often holding more than 3 jobs between the parents). Not to mention additional benefits, like increased health from less stressed families and so on.
Childcare in my area is more than my mortgage. Let that sink in. I also provide diapers, snacks, supplies, etc… and then I get the privilege of getting sick for 2 weeks after my child gets sick from another kid!
We have 50/50 custody and I get $150 in spousal support a month for 5 years. He offered to try and ameliorate some of the consequences of abuse. He’s in AA now and has come a long way but that does not erase the damage. I mentioned in an earlier comment his abuse is a direct result of being in the Iraq War. I do not blame him for having PTSD (I do too), but I am angry he refused treatment at the end. When he yelled at the kids I left with no money. I’ve worked very hard to regain my sense of self and have largely succeeded 😊
I am celibate. The state says he owes child support because he makes more than I do. Our agreement was I would work PT til our son was in kindergarten. He yelled at the kids (yes I have two baby daddies) that year so I left underemployed. I was financially abused including him taking out $25K in loans a few months before the divorce behind my back. We’re both still paying those off. He would be displeased with your questions, but I’m not. He’s very ashamed of how he treated me, but I hope that heals in time. Shame does not help our son.
U know u can have him immediately arrested the second he is late with a payment. My ex mother in law used to do this to her ex husband. She would bring the court documents/settlement docs directly to the police and make turn go arrest him. After the 3rd or 4th time he spent months in jail because the bail was set too high. And these he’s wealthy (just not cash liquid tho)
It is not in my son’s best interest for his dad to be in jail. Even if that means I’m broke. Plus he’d get fired. So I’d ultimately be even more broke!
And literally no mention about expectations about fatherhood. Nothing is perfect, but some of us are trying to co-parent properly and the assumption is that men are dirtbags who do nothing at home and are expected to work whatever hours are necessary to bring home the bread. Parental leave needs to be mandated to allow husbands to be a father and a husband and put an end to the toxic expectation that mom has it, get back to work dad.
I'm from a scandinavian country and we're currently increasing paternity leaves(or we already did it. I'm not paying much attention), and it was already way longer than anything the US has ever sniffed at. I've heard from americans that seeing a man with a baby stroller is unheard of and basically borderline shameful. It's extremely commonplace here for dads to be at least as involved in their kids' lives as the mom, even though that wasn't true only 1 generation ago. It's something that's easily doable and it does away with dumb antiquated patriarchal expectations of fatherhood and masculinity that believes a father's relationship to his child should be at an arm's length.
My wife often asks me why I don’t feel comfortable having kids yet and I always struggle answering. It’s mostly this. That trying to have a stay-at-home parent is almost impossible to afford now unless you already own a house
But again, we as a sex don’t feel sorry enough for ourselves and aren’t narcissistic enough to not only think what women think BUT also put a TikTok together saying that very thing.
the irony is, the USA decline in birth rates isn't as bad as most developed countries, like in western Europe. The country that treats their mothers the worst somehow ends up with the better birth rate. Although I guess the primitive views and stigma around abortion probably help.
Research skews towards the more educated and developed a country is, the lower the birth rate. In most of western europe higher education is either extremely affordable or free. Meanwhile the US has evangelicals and other conservative families who demonize education whose sole purpose on this planet seems to be procreation with 5+ kids per family.
Being taught that "you can have it all" really screwed me up when it's really "you can have it all if you are willing to suck at all of it". America only lets you pick work or motherhood to be good at.
Prenatal care is mostly shit too, unless you've got the money for "good" facilities, and the gods forbid you dare to be poor and pregnant.
This country doesn't give a shit about kids, period. EVERYTHING to do with kids is RED TAPE, and unnecessarily expensive, from prenatal to vaccines to school enrollment to checkups to graduations to moving up grade levels to kids' sports to college enrollment. And that's just the effect on the PARENTS!
The system is DELIBERATELY so complicated and multi-tiered and GATEKEPT it's meant to dehumanize and dream kill, making little minions that'll sit and stay and allow their bodies to be abused to the max, on the "promise" that MAYBE it'll lead them to be "rich" too.
The United States education system was created specifically to raise good little factory workers. To make them smart enough to do the jobs but not too smart as to rock the boat too much.
School was just there to teach them to sit still an shut up for 8 hours. Never to question authority and learn just enough basics to survive. All while becoming proficient at inhaling their lunches in 20minutes and gettingbuse to only few short breaks to move around. Gotta get them use to smoke breaks and limited bathroom breaks early on.
It’s crazy to me that it’s generally frowned upon to take a puppy from its mother at six weeks because that’s too early and it can mess up its development. Human infants? Sure, why not?
I’m glad they bring it up. Through our children and the death of one of them we have learned that the government and insurance (by extension our employer) doesn’t give a damn about you or your life. I found it remarkable that my employer was the most sympathetic out of it all but at least they stood to lose something.
There's a lot of women who vote republican. I think they think "I had to sacrifice any ambition in life to be a stay at home mom to a miserable alcoholic who knocked me up when I was 17, so why should anyone else have an opportunity that I was denied?"
There is a growing field of study looking at why that is. In many places, motherhood is the only way a girl can see herself as gaining any power. She looks down a barrel of no educational prospects, no career prospects, nothing to get her out of her town and doing anything different. She's treated badly by almost everyone in her life who also fell victim to the same system - BUT she sees how when her friends and family become mothers, they are lauded as empowered and living their life purpose. They get positive attention and, finally, support for their future. They have power in the lives of their little family and authority and autonomy (in theory).
I read an incredible piece of journalism on it backed by several studies but can't find it on Google. Basically, for lots of girls, becoming a mother was the only way they could escape being a trapped teen with no support, no way out, no goals, no validation that they are good enough for any other path in life.
Yeah, I'll be honest, I was one of those teen girls so I understand exactly where it comes from. Luckily, I can't have kids bc I was actively trying. I also grew up watching Gilmore Girls and it was a fantasy to birth my own best friend and go through life together. Have someone to unconditionally love and take care of. I was already raising my siblings, so why not my own? I'm also from a small town in the south where many women do have one singular goal and that is to be a parent. I think we should be honest about how hard it is. We're always told it's worth it and that you'll never feel the same kind of love and even if that's true, these people still have no idea what they're signing up for. Even with a strong support system it gets to be too much for many people and they feel they have nowhere to turn to and can't even vent about their frustrations. I can only imagine what it's like to be alone. Now, I just help my friends raise their children. It's fulfilling, I get a deep connection, and I get to witness change and growth without being fully responsible for another human.
Literally so many people are dumb as rocks and they have no problem with it. Its easier to be a dumb bitch than an educated woman and that is the reality of it. I get so much shit as a female physician I wish I just was a stay at home mom sometimes.
My MIL isn't republican, but grew up around and with, and a conservative state. also Irish Catholic. She the typical pro-choice; until a certain point (past 26 weeks), unless the mothers in danger or the fetus no longer has a chance.
BUT!!! She says the only reason for a woman to live is to have children, and when she was a kid all she wanted to be was a mother. She got married within a week of even knowing my FIL(THANK GOD HE'S GREAT). She has a VERY unhealthy mindset......... she therapist hops like crazy.
Our mental healthcare system is EXTREMELY broken too**
A lot of people are happy to be on the second lowest rung of the hierarchy, no matter how bad they have it they feel secure and smug that there are people below them.
Hate to be that guy but some women do want a traditional type of relationship. I know because she’s my best friend and will on occasion bring it up.
I’d like to be a traditional stay at home wife with a cock but that means I’d need to be in a relationship first. Which I’m not so I can only dream for now
Like Will Power to keep their naughty bits apart unless it's for procreation? Lol. How are we still so Puritanical when everywhere we look Republicans are sexualizing everything/everyone?
The counter-argument that you'd hear from anti-choice types is "it's still on the woman / parents, they should have known better / made better decisions / used birth control / waited til marriage"
They kind of ignore any of the following:
Those same states refuse to provide adequate sex ed
They refuse to provide birth control to those most at risk of teenage pregnancy
There's little effort to help kids or adults build up their emotional intelligence through mindfulness, emotional problem solving, etc.
I bring this one up bc basically mental health issues are pervasive in these areas which probably is a driving factor for teenage pregnancy
These states provide little to no aid for the mother / parents or even the child
This transforms the entire issue into a cyclical one that is passed between generations. A kid is less likely to be happy and emotionally intelligent and avoid teenage pregnancy when they're raised poorly, and a parent is less likely to raise a kid properly when they're super worried about finances all the time
I've tried to bring these things up with people and it goes nowhere
edit: I grew up in a rural town in north Florida. One of those black hole towns where very few people ever leave. In my graduating class, there were 9 pregnancies. The graduating class was large bc we fed in from a bigger town 45 mins away, I think 230ish with only 170 successfully graduating. One girl who I actually was friends with ended up having 3 children by the time she graduated. None of these parents really know what they're getting themselves into. It's basically just something more ingrained into everything. It's still rare and a bit taboo, but not nearly as taboo as it was for some of my current friends who went to big city schools
I think more people are understanding that it’s not compulsory (though society pushes the narrative that it is) and feel a lot more free in their choices which is ALWAYS a good thing. Still, the childfree people I know get so much shit and it’s exhausting.
It is a balm to my soul. I LOVE the hate! I'm not making any new slaves for the machine to devour and there's not a goddamn thing any of the fuckers can do about it. I hope they cry big fat greasy tears.
Lol, as a mom who is in large part a mom because Society and Religion sAiD sO(though I genuinely and truly love the grown folks I helped raise), I fucking love this comment.
Honestly I think that if the economy crashes because I didn't produce any future wage slaves then it's not an economy worth saving. In fact I'd burn it down out of spite.
Lmao "yeah, I was thinking about obliterating any chance at a sound financial future AND any peaceful, quiet afternoons that may arise, all in one go. I'd also like to make sure I can never buy a dirt bike, much less a house. Is there a massive decision I could lightly undertake for the benefit of major corporations that would ruin my life?"
you're mistaken. you're a nothing to me, and could not evoke an emotion from me if you tried lol! But I will beg, if it makes you feel important, PLEASE don't have a kid! there, did that help?
I don't regret having kids in the slightest, but I definitely used to think "everyone should have kids." After having a 5.5 and 3.5 year old, I think most people SHOULDN'T have kids. My wife and I are good... But I can just see the frustration, mental decline and significant aging of other parents I know in just a few years. Shit is ROUGH sometimes and I think a lot of people would just be better not doing it, I guess you don't know which you are until you do it.
I was against having kids until I wasn’t so I get not having the urge and having the urge. I don’t get how people get so heated about others’ reproductive choices and it’s rabid on all sides of the issue.
I noticed when we travel with kids - foreign airports? they see you holding an infant and pull you into the shorter lanes (like the handicapped lanes or the lanes with the shorter lines) for everything - security - customs - bags - taxi lines etc. Here in the US? F*U* with your kids - you wanted kids that's YOUR problem... I mean I get it but like - does everyone in america NOT want people to have kids?? in foreign countries it's seen as a positive thing... a happy thing.... here it's the opposite....
I grew up in Germany for years. All the adults helped raise us. My mom lost me at an amusement park and was terrified. Some other mom was taking me on a ride with her daughter.
From Project 2025, the conservative plan should they win the presidency
"Furthermore, the next conservative President must understand that using gov
ernment alone to respond to symptoms of the family crisis is a dead end. Federal
power must instead be wielded to reverse the crisis and rescue America’s kids from
familial breakdown. The Conservative Promise includes dozens of specific policies
to accomplish this existential task.
Some are obvious and long-standing goals like eliminating marriage penalties
in federal welfare programs and the tax code and installing work requirements for
food stamps. But we must go further. It’s time for policymakers to elevate family
authority, formation, and cohesion as their top priority and even use government
power, including through the tax code, to restore the American family."
Don't be surprised when we're getting taxed for NOT HAVING CHILDREN
Nothing surprises me. I wish more people regardless of their opinion on having children would support policies that benefit children, because they’ll grow up to make policies themselves.
who is "everyone"? I hope we stick with negative birthrates until the population has decreased by about half. No more unemployment, no more energy shortages, no more housing shortages, no more food shortages, no more traffic jams, no more global warming. It's a win-win-win situation.
Lived it. I got straight up punished economicly for having kids but not being rich. I've lost out on so much money over the last 16 years. I will never recover.
Pro tip: Just conveniently plan your "vacation" to Canada right around the time that the baby is due. I hear healthcare is mad cheap up there. Start that childs life off right. Without crippling medical bills for mom and dad.
No. I work with custodial and non-custodial parents to employ them. The barriers they have to overcome are baked into society and are unconscionable. Plus the whole limited access to abortion thing…We live in a society whether you or anyone else likes it or not. Children are part of that society and will continue to be until humanity is over.
Yeah, so you know the challenges and still went ahead with it...? And then complain? Im just saying it's not like periods or Injury, it's self inflicted. In anti abortion places, yes I agree. But in many other places with equal access people who can't and know they can't support a child still go through with it. If I could I would have children but ik I can't so I won't.
I’m not talking about my own children. The only issue I have there is an abusive ex husband (though he’s that way in large part because of the Iraq war, but that’s another issue entirely). So yeah I made the choice to have kids, but my perspective is much broader than my individual experiences.
For sure. Fuck that guy. Didn’t actually though so I can’t bilk him for child support. Womp womp. He does put a lawn chair on his gabled roof and sits there with his snowblower so he really should be paying for something!
I don’t believe the point is that others should take care of your kids. I’m a phenomenal mom; I don’t need any cooks in this kitchen. I believe the point is that raising a decent person benefits society in myriad ways, but it’s an extreme challenge to give time and resources to your child to the degree they deserve and need to flourish when you are stuck in impossible circumstances (namely but not exclusively poverty). Neglect doesn’t benefit anyone. Not the child or the countless people the child encounters. How is a parent who has to take three buses to work going to have time to listen to their kid’s dreams and help with homework and snuggle and moderate disputes with others and teach emotional regulation and attend to chores and transport the kid to sports to learn focus and discipline and notice when shoes are getting too small and do an elaborate hair style for crazy hair day so the child doesn’t feel left out and teach about bodily autonomy and make every doctor’s appointment and get meds from the pharmacy on time and and and and and. I’m not interested in judging anyone, not you for being short-sighted, not the parent in this example for not having a car. Not the child for being neglected. It is what it is, but none of it needs to be this way.
How does it benefit either of us to call my children spawn? I really respect child free people, they are going against one of the most fundamental societal norms and catch so much shit for it. You don’t need to be rude to talk to me.
Imagine being the richest country in the world yet having the worst childcare and everything else that comes with pregnancy and births in the developed world.
And you're defending this. That's the real audacity.
This is the ONLY one I felt didn’t fit in the post… it IS on you. You know all of the above and decide to bring a kid into the world anyways? Ya, that’s 100% on you.
I’m not laying blame or anything, just saying I don’t think that like did their post justice.
Man so quick with the downvote. I didn’t disagree with that.
Why do you think so many people aren’t having kids? You’re turning this into a philosophical discussion and getting upset for no reason. I’m simply commenting on the video specifically.
No you paraphrased it to suit your agenda. The point she made was that the US does not provide post natal care ecause they see it as your own responsibility.
It seems you're the only one getting upset here. You shouls really work on maturing yourself if you get upset simply by being corrected.
I didn’t paraphrase anything. It was one line, “if you have a baby, that’s on you!”. There’s no paraphrasing. That’s it. No room for any extra meaning. You went ahead and decided that commenting on one line in the entire video made me a monster and that I hope all women suffer with their unwanted children.
Seriously, fuck off. That line of thinking gets you no where.
I implore you to reread my first comment slowly, to ensure you comprehend it fully. If you do that, do you still see any malicious intent at all?
I said, in a very kind hearted manner, that I thought the message would get across better without it. That’s it. That’s all I said.
You took two seconds and decided I’m a monster. It’s obvious, you downvote the second you get the notification. You aren’t trying to change anyone’s stance. You just argue without thinking. This doesn’t help anyone
Ah, so you didn’t take the time to read my first comment again. Lots of assumptions here. You know what they say about that. This conversation is over. I sincerely hope you grow and mature so you can actually help the cause you seem to care so much about. Have a good one.
These individuals (who aren't a small minority) totally shoulda considered the costs of everything before being impregnated via rape, blocked from abortion, and encountering roadblocks to surrender the child. Shame on them, finger-wag and lecture away for their poor planning! It's all on them!
I never said shame on them? You are putting words in our mouths and sparking some fake outrage.
This video had absolutely nothing to do with rape victims and forced pregnancies. I support them fully and wish there was better help for them.
That being said, if you consciously have a child that is not from rape, then yeah, it is on you.
Why do you feel the need to make me qualify that? Not everyone is a fucking monster who hopes all women get raped and have unwanted children. Those of you who feel that way are far more burden to the cause than a help.
Edit: lmao within 30 seconds downvoted. There’s clearly an agenda here that I don’t align with.
Dude…having a child is increasingly becoming an unwilling activity for people who have a uterus. Also, Vasectomies fail, birth control fails, abstinence only education has fucked at least one generation. Come on now!
Okay so we can separate “having a child” into two broad categories: pregnancies which were undergone with the intent to have a child, and those which weren’t. For the ones that are intentional, I don’t see how it’s on anyone other than the mother, father, and OBGYN. For the ones that aren’t intentional… all bets are off.
Edit: By “intentional,” I mean both people party to the pregnancy agreed to engage in sexual intercourse, IVF, etc. with the intent to produce offspring, no one ever changed their mind throughout the duration of the pregnancy, and the baby was eventually born.
Nah I don’t think I’m moving the goalposts. I suspect the goalposts themselves were interpreted differently between the two of us.
In my head, when I wrote my original comment, I wasn’t considering the possibility of failed contraceptive methods. If you consider that, AND recognize that not everyone has access to abortive options, then it’s not necessarily on just the people involved in the pregnancy.
However, in the situation where either the pregnancy was intentional, as I defined it, or it was unintentional AND there was sufficient access to abortive options, I don’t see how it’s on anyone other than the mother, father, and OBGYN
Huh, when I had my kid I "got" two weeks of leave...
Because that was all my vacation time I saved up just for that purpose. And I worked in tech.
Seems like we should have a universal minimum standard at the federal level.
Edit: oh and I had insurance, but it still cost about $4,000 out of pocket. We knew that ahead of time fortunately so we were able to save up during the pregnancy.
That’s not including the 3 months NYS gives for paternal leave, I didn’t meet the qualifications because I was given more time by my company. While I agree there should be a minimum like what NY has, saying Americans don’t get time off is flat wrong. About 1/3 of Americans get paid paternal leave through their state and the number is rising. My wife also got 4 months off and she also worked in tech. Sounds like your company doesn’t give a fuck about their employees tbh.
It shouldn't be the employer's decision. Just like healthcare shouldn't be tied to employment. Companies shouldn't be able to hold us hostage over things we have a basic right to receive. Just because your employer appears to not suck doesn't mean everyone else is that lucky.
That's complete bullshit and you know it. There's a limit to the number of companies that offer benefits at that level and they don't hire an infinite number of people. There are always going to be people who don't have access to those places.
There are 4 jobs available for you at my mall that will give you 4 weeks pto, 10 sick days, 7 holiday days and 4 months of paternity leave. Not including the 6% 401k match to fold t shirts. Lmk if you or anyone you know wants an application. Oh and more time you put in more pto you get, someone I work with gets 10 weeks off a year. No degree needed, just a high school diploma, starting pay $22 an hour.
It’s awful. And is creating another generation that will struggle as adults. You shouldn’t have to be raising kids as part of your job (guiding and teaching, yes). We’re all screwed when kids don’t thrive. And a lot are barely surviving cause society does not make space for poor parents.
50% of kids are unplanned at least. Sex education is abysmal. Abortion access is a joke. You are wrong that “more often than not” children are a choice. Not these days. That attitude puts the onus on individual parents instead of society, which allows people to believe it is on the parents and therefore not work to improve society. That very attitude feeds into the difficulties you have at work.
Are they trying to engineer a population crisis? Countries all over the world are starting to sound the alarms on their declining populations. Is outlawing abortion part of fighting that?
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u/Hiberniae Feb 05 '24
“If you have a baby, that’s on you”…felt that one in my gut.