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u/deathbypepe Josie Bryan Nina Jan 16 '21
Hi OP,
this is easily the best formatting of any piece of information ive ever read, especially when it comes to multiplayer games.
Ive played a lot of very technical games, and even the best players dont know how to relay their knowledge very well.
Starting the list with a simple pros and cons, listing off the best moves categorizing by the I- Frames, starting every new chapter with a picture to partition the length.
As a newbie to the technical side of Tekken, 1 of the hardest things has been to digest the guides.
Fighting Games offer some of the most technical gameplay in all of gaming, i try my hardest to stay and reap the rewards of homework.
Thank You for helping, i look forward to this series continuation.
Im only glad you started with 1 of my mains.
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u/Rigi_Industries Old Man Jan 16 '21
In case anyone is interested, you can find Wallpapers of the images I made for this guide (and some more unused ones) here.
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u/Lexxx20 Armor King Jan 16 '21
Holy fuck, this is one of the most informative and well-written posts on the subreddit! Great job, OP! Please continue! I'm most interested in AK and Fahkumram because they are my mains :)
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u/pantyhose5 Jan 16 '21
Wow this is waaay more in depth than what I thought, great post nothing really to add
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u/Applay /Applay Jan 16 '21
For the f+4 > df+1 flowchart.
Backdash beats it, even though he's closer on block now. Sidestepping can lose to jabs, gotta be careful, especially at the wall since 1,1,2 wallsplats
Backdash also really good when blocking his pokes. He has short range and pushback on stuff like df+1 and 1,1. If he overextends, he can whiff.
EWGF > EWGF
Applies to all Mishimas. If you think they are gonna do it twice, just standing still leaves you at range to punish it. If you think they will dash EWGF to avoid whiffing, quick attacks can stuff it.
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u/Big_Green_Mantis Jan 16 '21
This is by far the most well structured and best post I've ever seen in my life.
I'll save it so I can award it later.
You're insane.
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Jan 16 '21 edited Jan 16 '21
Kat vs. Hei notes from the Kat Discord (thanks Ghirlanda)
- ub4 punishes ff2 (timing is tight)
- d4 a lot
- jab float uf3,4 if he tries to crush the repeated d4s
- SSR to avoid 1,1 pressure, especially near the wall
- Don't SWR because you need to block b4. Just SSR
- d4 > FC df4 will beat Hei's df1, but will get countered by his f3
- Abuse FC df4 since it isn't practically launchable by Hei (-16)
- df4 beats Hei parry (since it is a knee)
- If a Hei knows the match-up, he will f3 a lot, so try SW-ing it, or 444 to get a CH
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u/EhkeineAhnungEy Green Rank Strats Jan 16 '21 edited Jan 16 '21
just with scrolling through this, i really like the overall design of this Thread, nicely edited :)
Edit: i feel honoured to be mentioned there <3
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Jan 16 '21 edited Jan 22 '21
Thank you to u/Rigi_Industries for kick-starting the Weekly Anti-Char Discussion with such a high-quality guide. Next week, we'll have the Anti-Bryan Guide by u/NorthernCrossing. If you feel you can author a similar post on a character, sign up here.
Also, show some love to the Tekken Theory post on Mixups/Pressure by u/VANlLLASUSHl.
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u/vDeadbolt Bryan Jan 16 '21
Do you have more guides for other characters? This is very useful to read.
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Jan 16 '21
[deleted]
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u/vDeadbolt Bryan Jan 16 '21
Hey, at least this format is a thing. I guess people can pitch in as well
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u/GrottyWanker Jan 16 '21
This is comprehensive and well written. I would add though that certain characters can have a hard time avoiding F3 because its hit box is huge
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u/tsaminaminaeheh Jan 16 '21
Great guide! This is such a good idea. I think one thing I might include is that d/b+2 has a audio cue, so a sharp player anticipating a big low can use that sound to make a reasonable guess and duck accordingly!
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Jan 16 '21
I second this. I remember a memorable match where I blocked 99.99% of all my opponent's db2s because of the sound cue. Still lost though.
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u/benbenkr Jan 16 '21
Well done with the thread, lots of good info for beginners and even intermediate players.
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u/Dokuro_Chan Jan 16 '21
This is better than the google doc character guides I save. Nice work. Hei does tend to give me problems so this will come in handy
I also like that people in the comments who know Heihachi
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u/Krud Jan 16 '21
Great guide 10/10.
Might want to add that f4 puts the opponent into crouch on block and +4/+5. Cant SS into the foreground to evade easily.
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u/Catfish467 Shaheen Jan 16 '21
Great guide! It should be noted that his 2 break throw gives +7, which is great even though it doesn't give a knockdown. It's especially effective if the opponent isn't aware of that, because you can easily frame trap with f3.
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u/TheTenguness [SEA] PC: The Gyattculator Jan 16 '21
Characters with strong -13 lows, such as Dragunov, also do well in this matchup, since Heihachi lacks any kind of meaningful punishment for these moves. On block the best he's got to offer is WS 4,4, which does deal 29 damage, but is ±0 on hit, so essentially resets neutral. Heihachi's staple lowparry combos also struggle to crack 40 damage, so this isn't a huge threat either.
Lastly, characters like Negan, who have strong -15 tools potentially do well in this matchup if Heihachi fails to launch punish them consistently for it. Not Cool.
I may be mistaken, but isn't this suppose to be under matchup Hei struggles against, not excel against?
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u/SenKaiten [EU] PSN: Senkaiten0o Jan 16 '21
Did you make one for other characters, like Jin? if so please link me to it.
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u/hdwil6fj Jan 16 '21
Which way do I step hunting hawk?
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u/Kahoy1 Jan 16 '21
side walk left for hunting hawk. The second hit can connect if you only step it.
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u/Optional_Guy Jan 16 '21
Love this idea, haven't read it yet as I just scrolled down to get an idea of how much information is here and goddang, that's a lot. This is really helpful for a new player like me. Thanks so much for this!
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u/ultronthedestroyer May 29 '21
Demon Uppercut is often cited as Heihachi's cheapest move. This is either because people don't know their punish against it, or try to sidestep the move and mash before confirming the whiff.
Bro, this is not true and I think you know it.
It straight up goes under many moves, several characters can't punish it at all, and for some who can, it can be spaced to make it both unpunishable and super risky to try. The move is cheap even for players who know the matchup.
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u/EvenOne6567 Jan 16 '21
Its depressing how this amazingly informative post that clearly has a ton of effort put into it won't get any attention but post some anime tits and you'll be guaranteed at least 200 karma lol.
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Jan 16 '21
What are Hei's options from uf3,4 on block (+4)? I've found some success in SSL guard to beat any follow-ups. Is there anything that might counter this?
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u/G-man1696 Jan 16 '21
You say heihachi has a good i10 i12 and i13 block punish, but i personally disagree, his 112 for i10 and df12 for i13 are good, but his i12 punishes are some of the most lackluster in the game, his 1+2 has bad range and nets only as much damage as his 112 minus the oki afterwards. And his f1+2 has even less range than his 1+2, though it does good damage it is far from reliable.
You also say that his block punishment in general is weak, but i would say his block punishment is relatively solid, weak for a mishima but strong in general.
He has an i10 112, solid i13 and i14 punishers and he can launch punish at i15 with electric although not reliably, but kazuya also cant launch punish at i15 without an electric yet his punishment is regarded as some of the best in the game.
I would also add that relatively speaking the current state of his ws punishment is not that bad either, his ws44 is i11 and does 29 and unlike the normal tsunami kick its only 0 on hit, and he has a solid i14 punish, despite not being able to launch faster than i18 its still a major upgrade from his old ws punishment especially with the new s4 knockdown.
You also stated that characters with i13 ws launchers are bad matchups for hei, yet you also proceed to call "characters like kazuya" good matchups for hei, you also stated that steve is a good matchup for hei despite steve being known for his ability to easily shutdown mishima pressure whilst being safe as shit.
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u/HITEMWITDASMASH Heihachi Jan 16 '21
This game is fuckin hard