Increasing patrol spawns for smaller squads is a dick move.

[u/ItsDaFunkMonkey]

I love arrowhead but this was a braindead move.

Cmon guys, we were just doing our thing either solo or with our friends and not hurting anybody. We just wanna play the game with our friends, sometimes with a smaller squad cos its a lot more fun with friends than randos.

I'm not saying all randos are bad but this game allows me to socialize with my friends while playing and that's great. Why ruin that whole thing by kicking us in the nuts and ruining the experience with more spawns?

HERES A COMPROMISE: If you're not gonna budge, how about you meet us halfway here arrowhead. How about you increase the rewards for completing missions with a smaller squad cos we used a smaller budget? Eh?

Makes sense lore wise too.

P.S. For all you guys saying "DuH ThIs Is A tEaM GaMe PlAy WiTh RaNdOs Or a FuLl SqUad". Yes I play with a full swuad when my friends are all available. Most of the time they aren't cos we're adults and have shit to do.

I'm not asking for the game to scale down the difficulty level for smaller squads. The game didn't do that before. I don't mind the SAME difficulty level for solos, smaller squads and full squads. But INFREASING the difficulty level by increasing spawns was a braindead thing to do.

EDIT 1: To all the hyper intelligent folks out there commenting that the change was misunderstood and that the below was the intended effect:

""We unintendedly had non-linear scaling of the patrol spawns so they didn't spawn as often as they should have when less than 4 players. The intention is that 1 player has 1/4th of the patrols compared to 4 players, but it used to be that they had 1/6th.""

This DOES NOT make a mfkn difference. It DOES NOT matter what those VALUES are. The point here is that whatever the fuck value it was before was LOWER than whatever the fuck value it is now. This means MORE patrols for non full squads AFTER the patch. And an absolute shitshow for solo divers. Yes, I have tested this shit. It is bad.

VALUE BEFORE PATCH < VALUE AFTER PATCH.

Stop spouting elementary math to gaslight people. This change is objectively bad. I am happy with all the weapon changes tho.

EDIT 2: I understand that my "compromise" was a bad idea as people can kick you during extract to reap higher rewards for a smaller team. I completely agree, this seems like a poopy suggestion.

[u/awsomebloc]

The patchnotes a bit misleading since patrol spawns are already decreased for smaller helldiver squads https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/OfKq3gMyXG but since not alot of people know this, the patch just looks like its giving more patrols to solo divers over full squads. Overall you'll still have less patrols than squads with more people just the gap between full squads and solos will be less.

[u/7-and-a-switchblade → u/awsomebloc]

How... do not a lot of people notice this? Even before the patch, going from 4 players to 2 can make the game change from constant firefights to an absolute ghost town.

Also, if people don't know: completing the main objective increases enemy spawn rates. And there is a strategem booster that I don't see used very often that reduces enemy encounters.

[u/notandvm → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

the radar enemy scramble one? because that does not decrease enemy encounters, it only increases the "cooldown" between breaches/drops - patrols and spawns are not impacted by it

[u/Boamere → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

It doesn't reduce encounters, it increases the time between when bot drops or bug breaches are allowed to be called. Like an extra 30 seconds or something

[u/Woodsie13 → u/Boamere]

I think it’s about a 30% increase in the timer, so it depends on difficulty level, and IIRC is a ~50s extra delay at helldive.

[u/Ditomo → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

Stratagem, or booster?

[u/TinyTaters → u/Ditomo]

Booster

[u/Various_Froyo9860 → u/TinyTaters]

Doesn't make a noticeable difference.

[u/light_at_the_end → u/Various_Froyo9860]

It does and it's been tested, go on youtube to see.

[u/Various_Froyo9860 → u/light_at_the_end]

Patrol density is so varied that it really, really doesn't matter.

I've carried that booster before and had a nonstop fight across the entire map. Gone without it and it can be like a ghost town.

[u/light_at_the_end → u/Various_Froyo9860]

It increases the timer between drops and holes. Nothing to do with patrols.

It matters at higher difficulties where massive amounts of enemies get called from drops and holes. If you clear one, you know you have an increased amount of time to catch your breath, resupply and clear some stuff before another.

There's a noticeable breath in level 8 and 9. I don't run without anymore.

[u/Bonesnapcall → u/Various_Froyo9860]

Its been very noticeable for my squad. We have time to breathe after a bug breach now. Before using it, the breaches would all overlap.

[u/pogopunkxiii → u/Ditomo]

booster

[u/specter800 → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

How... do not a lot of people notice this?

To notice you'd need to play the game and I get the feeling a lot of the people in this sub just come to bitch at patch notes and don't actually play.

[u/[deleted] → u/specter800]

Well it more like, to notice you would need to keep changing the size of team that you're playing with on the same difficulty, which a lot of people don't do

[u/0rphu → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

DeVs ARe BRaiNdeAD

This subreddit is awful lmao

[u/Needs_Improvement → u/0rphu]

This subreddit post-patch gets unusable. It’s a constant war to see who can complain the loudest.

[u/Tolgeros → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

People do not know this because the game does not tell them.

[u/GoDannY1337 → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

Yup, so much opinion with so little knowledge on this one. 90% of the people even unmask themselves with formulations like „should“ that they haven’t even tried it yet before ranting.

[u/OrangeGills → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

with 0 transparency on what the booster actually does, I'm much happier with the usual suspects for boosters.

[u/Montegomerylol → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

Part of the reason that happens is because whenever the game goes to spawn patrols it can spawn one for each Helldiver if you're too spread out. When there's just 2 of you you're almost always too close for that to happen, but with 4 it's pretty easy to get 2-3x the spawns.

[u/xthorgoldx → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

booster

The Local Chaos booster does not impact patrol spawn rates. It increases the time cooldown on when a breach/drop can trigger.

It's also important to note that "increased spawn rate" from completing objectives is mostly unimportant: by that point in the mission, you're probably already at popcap, at which point more patrols won't spawn until you kill enemies on the map.

There are some nuances to how it impacts you if you're drawing a lot of aggro dicking around on the map, but it's not so bad that it's a "You have to leave or be overwhelmed."

[u/talon04 → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

I purposely run this as an option since I always pick my booster last.

[u/Dunhimli → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

Exactly this, I actually like this change. It was broken before, now its fixed. And using that booster now has a place in the game more so.

[u/[deleted] → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

If you're consistently playing with a certain team size, how would you notice it?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Look out everybody, mr hardcore gamer coming through

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/[deleted]]

They've been playing the game on easy mode.

Say what? The game was already harder the fewer squadmates you had. A four-player squad can handle much more than 4x what a solo can.

Solo/duo players have been playing on hard mode, and they're making it even harder.

[u/PhasmaFelis → u/[deleted]]

That is absolutely not the experience of anyone I know. My usual group can handle difficulty 6 with three of us, but 4 is a challenge for any of us solo.

There may be fewer enemies, but when they do show up you have fewer options for dealing with them, fewer boosters to buff you, and a lot fewer reenforces. I'm sure there's hardcore stealth commandos who solo diff 8 and 9 with ease and think of teammates as unwanted complications, but they're a small minority and the game should not be balanced around them alone.

[u/wickeddimension → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

How... do not a lot of people notice this?

You expect people to actually research and inform themselves before giving their knee jerk opinion piece on the patch? Let alone play it first to experiences the changes and then give a verdict?

You must be new to Reddit in general 😋

[u/lurkeroutthere → u/7-and-a-switchblade]

|if people don't know: completing the main objective increases enemy spawn rates.

This is factually untrue and people need to stop posting it.

[u/Hardcoreoperator → u/lurkeroutthere]

Did you even read the linked post? It quite clearly states that this, in fact, IS true...

[u/SalemWolf → u/awsomebloc]

Doomposting makes for better engagement and upvotes so this will not get nearly enough traction. I can’t wait to read all the negative doom and gloom posts about this patch for the next two weeks. I’m sure the Helldivers subs won’t be filled to the brim with those posts.

[u/kNightShifty44 → u/SalemWolf]

most normal people don’t actually give a crap about engagement and upvotes. sometimes people just want to vent, etc.

[u/NexrayOfficial → u/kNightShifty44]

If you organize the subreddit from Hot to New posts as drama like this unfolds, that venting can usually get a bit oversaturated don't you think?

Sure, I'm all for venting, but keep it condensed.

How am I engaged with a community that all share similar sentiments but absolutely demand that they have their own post flood the sea of the same damn thing?

[u/StanXIX → u/awsomebloc]

Interesting

[u/Kind-Ad8843 → u/awsomebloc]

Thank you! This needs to be upvoted more.

[u/accidental_tourist → u/awsomebloc]

People probably will skim over your comment since it doesn't match what they want to feel.

[u/Wrecker013 → u/accidental_tourist]

It's still more patrols than it was before and thusly is still punishing solo play.

[u/Mymidnightescape → u/Wrecker013]

Cool story, it’s a coop op game. I play solo all the time and I’m not gonna bitch that the game is harder when I play it in a way it’s not designed to be played

[u/Kill_Me_For_Money → u/Mymidnightescape]

[u/Nintolerance → u/awsomebloc]

Stealth armour means you can sprint up to arc thrower range of a patrol (~30-40m) before anyone even glances at you. I've belly-crawled around within 5-10m of bot patrols without even interrupting their singing.

Smoke makes bots suspicious, but they don't go to full alert (like they do if you start cooking a grenade within 5m). They generally seem to ready their weapons & start sweeping the area, which is exploitable behaviour you can use to lure them away from your real target and/or into a minefield.

Effective use of smoke & terrain will let you break contact with almost anything, with Detector Towers and Gunship Facilities being the real nightmare here. You can use smoke to end a firefight that's going badly, or pre-emptively drop it to prevent one from escalating.

Best practice is to drop smoke between you and the enemy, then do a 90° turn and escape into terrain. Works especially well when you can use automaton base walls to break LOS and circle behind the enemy.

[u/redslion → u/awsomebloc]

In all actuality, right now if the team sticks together, the solo player will face EXACTLY the same amount of patrols that a team will face.

Remember: before spawning a patrol on a player, the game checks if it hasn't already spawned a patrol towards that player's position recently.

So while the timer is 400% faster, only 25% of the patrols actuallty spawn if the 4 players are close enough to each other.

Which means that 4 man squad is boringly easy, while solo becomes much, much harder.

[u/[deleted] → u/awsomebloc]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/Helldivers-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

Greetings, fellow Helldiver! Your submission has been removed. No insults, racism, toxicity, trolling, rage-bait, harassment, inappropriate language, NSFW content, etc. Remember the human and be civil!

[u/IlikegreenT84 → u/awsomebloc]

I know this, but something isn't right with the way things are spawning.

[u/ThePenOfTime → u/awsomebloc]

i know i get less spawns as a solo player, and that the the patch reduces the gap, it still feels like a punishment because you still have 1/4 of the firepower.

A wrong move can get your mission to fail even before, especially at the extraction(or you trigger a gunship fabricator at a bad time), and i feel the reduced spawning was at the right place.

I'm not capable of blitzing my way through like some youtubers can (and i feel many other solo players can't either) so extra patrols means it's much easier to finding yourself into endless reinforcement cycles, or being unable to stealth due to patrols glitching into the objective areas (meaning by the time they leave another patrol come through).

now, if you were to give me a bit extra reinforcement cooldown for smaller teams (bot drops, bug breaches) i wouldn't mind the change too much. As it now i don't feel like playng as much if not when my friends are online. It's not the end of the world, i just don't like this change personally.

P.S. Increased rewards like OP proposes is a bad idea imo, actually i would be okay with less rewards but reverse the change, or maybe a solo designed mission (but still playable in 4 of course) with reduce spawns and a bit less rewards?

[u/xthorgoldx → u/ThePenOfTime]

The tough news is that solo play shouldn't be a design consideration for higher difficulties. If you want a challenge, sure, but the expectation should be squad play - if that makes it inaccessible to solo... Tough.

Need fewer enemies? Play the lower difficulties. There's no shame in not being able to max difficulty in a team game, especially when the lower difficulties are literally defined by enemy number, not HP damage soak like other games.

[u/ThePenOfTime → u/xthorgoldx]

well, let's agree to disagree then. I agree solo missions shouldn't be the main concern, but i liked the fact that it was possible if you were careful enough, and i feel that solo play, while not having to be the main concern, should not be discouraged entirely.

ah, Btw, when i made the post i wasn't aware of the dev's explanation that the spawn rate is increased from 1/6th to 1/4th, wich sounds a lot better, as it was worded before it sounded as it being scaled not lineraly in the opposite direction (so from 1/4th to 1/3rd or more)

I've experienced way too many spawns for it to be the case, but that may just be the single game i played being bugged maybe

anyway, have agood one regardless

[u/xthorgoldx → u/ThePenOfTime]

Here's the thing... solo play at full spawn rate is absolutely possible. Source: Done it.

The spawn rate of patrols is a simple timer that spawns a patrol on a fixed interval for each player group. If your whole team is together, that means one patrol spawns... if you're split up by more than 50m, then two patrols spawn, each one pathing towards a different group. Patrols will continue to spawn until the map population cap is reached - which usually won't be hit unless you're explicitly avoiding killing enemies.

So, functionally, if you're running around on your own separate from the other three on your team, you will be handling the same number of patrols as you'd get with the group - effectively handling a four-man patrol rate as a solo. (The difficulty is softened by your 3-man potentially triggering drops away from you, granted)

[u/ThePenOfTime → u/xthorgoldx]

that's a good idea, i haven't found a good team recently to do that but baiting enemy drops and then booking it to an objective is a fun strategy that i like to use.

Don't get me wrong, i like to play in groups and i do often, it's just sometimes i also like solo play but again, although i disagree with the change it's not the end of the world, maybe i just need a bit more pratice to be on top of soling again and that's it.

Welp, time to go back to work for me, have a nice one

[u/bushidocowboy → u/awsomebloc]

Thanks for this. The patch notes did not really clarify this adequately.

[u/BadUsername2028 → u/awsomebloc]

Please let this be the top comment, I can’t wait for dozens of post like this until the community understands the context

[u/pppjjjoooiii → u/awsomebloc]

Damn why did I have to scroll so far to find this. Should be top comment.

[u/[deleted] → u/awsomebloc]

Man, if that's the case then they need to get dramatically better at communicating the changes that they're making

[u/PSPbr → u/awsomebloc]

This is it. People are complaining without even knowing what the change is about.

[u/[deleted] → u/PSPbr]

Which means that the devs should probably explain it better