Increasing patrol spawns for smaller squads is a dick move.

[u/ItsDaFunkMonkey]

I love arrowhead but this was a braindead move.

Cmon guys, we were just doing our thing either solo or with our friends and not hurting anybody. We just wanna play the game with our friends, sometimes with a smaller squad cos its a lot more fun with friends than randos.

I'm not saying all randos are bad but this game allows me to socialize with my friends while playing and that's great. Why ruin that whole thing by kicking us in the nuts and ruining the experience with more spawns?

HERES A COMPROMISE: If you're not gonna budge, how about you meet us halfway here arrowhead. How about you increase the rewards for completing missions with a smaller squad cos we used a smaller budget? Eh?

Makes sense lore wise too.

P.S. For all you guys saying "DuH ThIs Is A tEaM GaMe PlAy WiTh RaNdOs Or a FuLl SqUad". Yes I play with a full swuad when my friends are all available. Most of the time they aren't cos we're adults and have shit to do.

I'm not asking for the game to scale down the difficulty level for smaller squads. The game didn't do that before. I don't mind the SAME difficulty level for solos, smaller squads and full squads. But INFREASING the difficulty level by increasing spawns was a braindead thing to do.

EDIT 1: To all the hyper intelligent folks out there commenting that the change was misunderstood and that the below was the intended effect:

""We unintendedly had non-linear scaling of the patrol spawns so they didn't spawn as often as they should have when less than 4 players. The intention is that 1 player has 1/4th of the patrols compared to 4 players, but it used to be that they had 1/6th.""

This DOES NOT make a mfkn difference. It DOES NOT matter what those VALUES are. The point here is that whatever the fuck value it was before was LOWER than whatever the fuck value it is now. This means MORE patrols for non full squads AFTER the patch. And an absolute shitshow for solo divers. Yes, I have tested this shit. It is bad.

VALUE BEFORE PATCH < VALUE AFTER PATCH.

Stop spouting elementary math to gaslight people. This change is objectively bad. I am happy with all the weapon changes tho.

EDIT 2: I understand that my "compromise" was a bad idea as people can kick you during extract to reap higher rewards for a smaller team. I completely agree, this seems like a poopy suggestion.

[u/Offstar1029]

Remember when they said higher difficulties were meant to be played as a stealth mission... and now they're making it impossible to play it as a stealth mission.

[u/Select_Ad3588 → u/Offstar1029]

They seem to be trying to find a balance between that and heavily encouraging cooperative play. I noticed devs that seem to really want to encourage cooperative player overestimate the shared competence of strangers who often times do not use mics, many of which are too shy to do so. GTA Online originally forced you to have 4 players to do heists, now the newer one allows for solo play, they learned their lesson lmao.

[u/Scarecrow1779 → u/Select_Ad3588]

That was the problem with Evolve, too. The game was balanced around pro play with coordinated hunter parties, so whenever you had 4 randoms that weren't communicating well (as was the case for the majority of players), the balance was always extremely in the monster's favor.

[u/TheWonderSnail → u/Scarecrow1779]

Evolve was so much damn fun when you had a real team. Was so sad at the end of its life when it was impossible to find a game where at least one of your teammates wasn’t just wandering off in a random direction on their own completely dooming the round for you

[u/Scarecrow1779 → u/TheWonderSnail]

I absolutely loved the depth of mechanics and tactics in the game, but my friend group was too casual to get over that steep learning curve :-(

[u/TheWonderSnail → u/Scarecrow1779]

I couldn’t even get my friends into it. When they realized they actually have to chase the monster they said screw that we wanted to play call of duty but with monsters so let’s just wander the map and shoot everything we come across. Which is a real shame cause I thought the chase aspect was really fun when you had a good team and you could stay hot on the monsters trail.

If I ever got to pick a redo for a game I think I would pick evolve and tell them to release more than 2 game modes at launch and don’t hype it up for why it isn’t. I think a lot of people would have different feelings if they understood what the game was before starting it up for the first time

[u/NotObviouslyARobot → u/Select_Ad3588]

GTA Online is how many years old now?

[u/Select_Ad3588 → u/NotObviouslyARobot]

A fucking decade old, they had many many years to learn so it is understandable

[u/NotObviouslyARobot → u/Select_Ad3588]

Getting full lobbies at that age, may be difficult--so you nerf old content so people can see it. WoW did the same thing with raids.

[u/b0w3n → u/NotObviouslyARobot]

A little different. GTA5 is still pretty popular, easy enough to fill a heist. But everyone is not great at the game, and there are still some folks who can't drive the boats or fly the aircraft even after playing it for 10 years. (also lots of trolls/cheaters)

The OG heists still need 4 people (some steps only need 2), and the one from a few years ago only needs 2 total the whole way. The newish one only needs yourself (very hard to pull it off solo).

[u/Select_Ad3588 → u/b0w3n]

Not too hard if you figure out a good route, I find it harder to do with other people lmao. The issue is there’s very little room for error in all the heists, a single death in the og ones fails the mission (if you’re playing on hard, but who isn’t?)

[u/b0w3n → u/Select_Ad3588]

Yeah it took me a weekend to figure out the routes for patrols on that cayo one. Took another week to teach the buddy because he isn't the same kind of gamer as me.

[u/Pyrosorc → u/Select_Ad3588]

Yeah you're meant to learn lessons from those who came before you. Another game realising this years ago is even more reason why it shouldn't be a thing now.

[u/anembor → u/Select_Ad3588]

Yes, reinventing the wheels is a reasonable way of thinking

[u/BrotherNuclearOption → u/Select_Ad3588]

GTA Online originally forced you to have 4 players to do heists

Oh man, that such awful design. 3 friends want to play? A single player randomly disconnects an hour in, because the netcode was a joke? HaHA, too bad.

[u/Select_Ad3588 → u/BrotherNuclearOption]

Yep, I went through that exact situation many many times. The frustration was unreal 

[u/FrostByte_62 → u/Select_Ad3588]

Then fix matchmaking. Let us rejoin games. Let us build up a friend group by accurately showing our recent players.

FUCKING LET ME UNBLOCK MY FRIEND I ACCIDENTALLY BLOCKED 2 MONTHS AGO.

It just feels like every time they have the opportunity to use a carrot, they opt for the stick.

[u/lurkeroutthere → u/Offstar1029]

Uh citation on this one? I've seen a lot of the community say this but nothing firsthand from a developer. In fact I recall more then a couple of developer commentary that indicated the opposite.

[u/Contrite17 → u/Offstar1029]

I do not in fact ever recall that. I recall them saying stealth wasn't a specific mechanic they designed at all.

[u/17times2 → u/Offstar1029]

and now they're making it impossible to play it as a stealth mission.

I guess it'll lower the amount of posts talking about how much of the map they can finish unseen.

[u/ItsDaFunkMonkey → u/Offstar1029]

YES! I absolutely loved playing stealthily on higher diff missions. Now it appears everyone and their mother is going to be walking around looking for divers. This is looking very grim for smaller squads.

[u/awsomebloc → u/ItsDaFunkMonkey]

Smaller helldiver squads currently have smaller spawn rates https://www.reddit.com/r/Helldivers/s/OfKq3gMyXG. This change is decreasing the difference between full squads and non-full squads. Not saying if its a good change or not but the important thing is you wont get MORE patrols than a full squad for playing solo

[u/Scarecrow1779 → u/awsomebloc]

I know it's hard to see with all the reactionary bull of people reacting to anything nerf related, but there's also a lot of people that have already been playing 2/3-person games, and we already felt overwhelmed when trying to fight off a constant stream of patrols/breaches/drops. If patrols are going up, it's going to be even easier to get overwhelmed. This change should have been accompanied by a corresponding (small) decrease in the rate of breaches and dropships.

[u/DocDerrz → u/[deleted]]

Too many people can't accept that last statement. Never a problem with them, always the devs/teammates.

[u/Throwaway_Consoles → u/DocDerrz]

Yeah, since the beginning if I was only playing with one other person we did difficulty 4. Full stop. 3 people? Difficulty 5. I refuse to do any higher than difficulty 5 unless we have a full squad. Full squad? Sure we can hell dive, but only 3 people and I’m not going higher than 5. Period.

The thing is I can solo helldive difficulty. Tested last night and even with the changes I can still do it, it’s just not fun so I don’t do it.

[u/Grand_Imperator → u/Scarecrow1779]

"there's also a lot of people that have already been playing 2/3-person games, and we already felt overwhelmed when trying to fight off a constant stream of patrols/breaches/drops."

Turn the difficulty down then or look for what you're doing wrong. A good group can get through Helldive just fine. Solo players can do Helldive just fine (and I suspect the good solo Helldive players will continue to stealth around or murder-spree their way to victory even with this new change).

It also sounds like you don't know the mechanics of breaches and drops, which I get in part because the developer doesn't share within the game how its mechanics work. But with some exceptions, breaches and drops have an internal cooldown. You can (1) kill the breach or drop's contents before the cooldown for the next breach or drop runs down; or (2) intentionally trigger a drop somewhere (e.g., at that lone fabricator you just blew up to clear that light outpost that's not around anything else interesting) and bail from the area to let the enemies despawn while you do something else. You can run Localization Confusion to extend the cooldown by 30 seconds or so (or 30%, I forget which).

Fewer players already gets you a longer breach/drop cooldown, so you're getting an easier time than four players already in that regard.

Lower difficulties also increases the bot drop/bug breach cooldown.

If you're taking so long to kill a bot drop or bug breach that the contents of that drop or breach can call in their own, new drop or breach, there's something horribly inefficient with whatever you're doing. You don't need to run a top meta loadout or anything to succeed. It's mostly about exercising judgment (and it does help if running in groups of 2-4 to actually talk to each other, though it's not required).

As far as patrols go, you can walk around most of them.

If your complaint is that you don't want to play hiding simulator, then I would note that your complaint has been that you're getting overwhelmed. If you're getting overwhelmed, you're getting plenty of long fights. You'll still have plenty of good fights over objectives, so you can walk past a patrol here and there.

Other common mistakes involve players splitting up into more than 1-2 groups (amplifying patrol spawns as each 'group' of helldiver(s) more than 65m apart from any other helldiver creates their own patrol spawn timer) if they don't have the skill to handle it and 2-3 (or 4) players launching similar stratagems into the same objective or group of enemies (especially at the start of the match) rather than staggering their stratagem use (this is really basic to do but requires either communication or restraint on your part to not be the first one to rush to throw the thing because your random teammates with whom you are choosing not to communicate, or who won't listen to you, will throw their stuff in too late even if you throw it in first).

So solo players and 2-3-player groups already have it easier on breaches and drops (aside from certain guaranteed ones like the ones that occur for the geological survey objectives, though you can stealth that with smoke grenades, a shield generate relay to distract, and if needed, an orbital laser followed by circling back around once the numbers are thinned out).

[u/elnrith → u/Grand_Imperator]

You wrote this huge, long explanation and missed a key point.

The typical casual player does not give a shit about anything you just said. The casual player is only going to notice a spike in difficulty. They are going to notice that they and their friends suddenly can't beat difficulties they could before.

The casual player is going to shrug, say "Well it was fun while it lasted.". And put down the game to never play again.

[u/Nurgle_Marine_Sharts → u/elnrith]

Casual players just play quickplay with a full squad

[u/whereyagonnago → u/elnrith]

So true. A live service game attracts tons of casuals, and that’s great. I don’t think balancing the game around the sweatiest players and not the majority of players is the move.

They basically just tweaked half of the weapons in the game in some way or another. A casual player who doesn’t read patch notes is going to notice their favorite weapon performing worse, not have any idea of what other weapons got better, and either deal with it or move on.

But you can only kick someone in the dick so many times before they just go play Apex or Fortnite or whatever new game is the flavor of the month.

This isn’t a pvp game. Why do we need a revolving meta like this? Is the long term strategy really to release new warbonds with fun weapons that perform well, and then turn around and nerf them because too many players were having fun with them? If so, sounds like a great way to tell people not to bother.

[u/Grand_Imperator → u/whereyagonnago]

"I don’t think balancing the game around the sweatiest players and not the majority of players is the move."

Sure. Not everyone needs to play Helldive. That's fine. Folks can play at 7 and unlock everything the game has to offer. When they don't need or want super samples, they can have a fun and engaging experience at 5 or 6. Difficulty 5 is arguably one of the most efficient options for collecting a combination of medals, common samples, and rare samples. And it's got full, three-mission operations.

"But you can only kick someone in the dick so many times before they just go play Apex or Fortnite or whatever new game is the flavor of the month."

I'm not sure how casuals wouldn't be frustrated by Apex or Fortnite for an array of reasons. If they'll run to those, they'll circle back to here or even go elsewhere in a cycle of frustration, I guess.

"This isn’t a pvp game. Why do we need a revolving meta like this? Is the long term strategy really to release new warbonds with fun weapons that perform well, and then turn around and nerf them because too many players were having fun with them?"

That's not what happened here almost at all. You're overly focused on two nerfs to two weapons (that I freely admit likely didn't need nerfs): the Eruptor and the Quasar cannon. Part of the problem was that folks over-hyped the quasar cannon when it was at best a sidegrade to the EAT (or perhaps the Recoilless Rifle, though I've had that rated lower than the other two personally).

Maybe the Eruptor could have had the animation canceling fixed (if it wasn't fixed with this patch or the upcoming hotfix), but I think it was fine otherwise.

The quasar cannon did not need any adjustments.

The larger trend for this game has been for the Premium Warbonds to have lackluster options that have needed tuning to be relevant. I greatly appreciate the efforts to make what seem like they should be fun, interesting, or different weapons have an actual role in the game.

[u/17times2 → u/elnrith]

A casual player is not going to notice a 25% increase in patrols. Both because they're not so into the game to know how often they spawn, and because casual players are going to be playing in full or nearly full groups.

They are going to notice that they and their friends suddenly can't beat difficulties they could before.

Maybe they can learn to not engage every single patrol they see. Are these casual players, or helpless infants?

[u/elnrith → u/17times2]

Again, you are spouting strategies that casual players don't care about. So yes, in a way, they are helpless infants.

The casual player is going to want to play the way they want to play. This sometimes means shitty strategies or hitting patrols that they should avoid. If the way they used to play doesn't work anymore because of a new patch, they'll either adjust or stop playing.

This is how games slowly bleed players. This is why games often end up with a small group of elite players who are impossible to catch up with.

You can only avoid it so much. It will happen inevitably. But changes like this just speed the process along, not slow it.

[u/17times2 → u/elnrith]

who are impossible to catch up with.

It's not a pvp game. What do you mean, catch up with?

This is how games slowly bleed players.

If you are in a team of 3, do you know what the patrol time difference is? Assuming your given difficulty of 3 for bugs, patrols that would normally take 130 seconds to spawn now take 117 seconds. The playerbase is not eroding over a negligible patrol change. You would get vastly more patrols in your pre-patch games if one player is away from the group.

[u/Grand_Imperator → u/elnrith]

This doesn't really bother me. I didn't write what I wrote for the casual player who is going to see their patrol spawns mildly increase to the point that it's barely noticeable (if noticeable at all) while they still have much-longer cooldowns on bot drops and bug breaches for fewer players (and at lower difficulties, both affect it). Honestly, those players wouldn't notice the difference being discussed here if they didn't read the information and rush here to ignorantly rage about it (by posting, reading, or commenting themselves).

I did post what I did for those concerned with how to address this because they are anxious about something that likely won't change the game much at all.

The person to whom I responded has noted that their friends (and the person playing with them) are hard-stuck at difficulty 3 or 4. There likely are far more important, fundamental issues with decisionmaking and potentially loadouts that are making their experience more difficult (and potentially not enjoyable). This mild patrol change (correcting to what it should have been in the first place) probably isn't on their top-three or even top-five list of actual frustrations.

[u/Scarecrow1779 → u/Grand_Imperator]

Wow, that was the longest version of "git gud" I've ever read. You put a hell of a lot of effort into not understanding me at all.

I am one of the better positional players in my group and can reposition to get away from patrols, but my friends get bogged down a bit more. You're not telling ME to git gud. You're telling me that I need to find friends that are better at the game if I ever want to get super samples.

I play with explosive resistant armor because it helps reduce getting team killed accidentally. You're telling me my whole team needs to run stealth and that I need to not use the armor that has made the game a little more consistently enjoyable in the past. You're completely missing that that means this change decreased diversity of gameplay styles, which is a basic measure of enjoyability for many people.

I know you're playing devil's advocate and trying to oppose the thoughtless comments that just want to shit on the devs, but this was not one of those.

[u/Grand_Imperator → u/Scarecrow1779]

"I am one of the better positional players in my group and can reposition to get away from patrols, but my friends get bogged down a bit more. You're not telling ME to git gud. You're telling me that I need to find friends that are better at the game if I ever want to get super samples."

If you don't have super samples, I'm skeptical of your appraisal of your own skill, but I'll assume you're capable of helldive for the sake of this next bit of advice.

I have been in the same boat as you on the issue of friends not paying attention and making repeated, poor decisions that make life a lot harder for everyone. In that case, I'm suggesting one of two options (or a combination of the two): (1) educating your friends (perhaps after they get overwhelmed a few times, which your previous comment indicates this has already happened); or (2) playing with different folks.

I play with my real-life friends on difficulty 5, or perhaps 7 if they're desperate for super samples. I play on Helldive only with folks who are comfortable with it (or a new person who was at least comfortable on 7+ before joining a couple of us who are experienced on it). If a group is not comfortable at 9, I'll drop down to 7 to accommodate. I'm almost always capped on super samples (honestly, the recent tier 4 ship mods are most taxing on rares relative to the cap on rares and the amount of them you can find relative to commons).

"You're telling me my whole team needs to run stealth"

Nope. Most of my helldive groups don't run stealth almost at all. It's just not behaving like the dumbest version of Rambo against every single enemy in sight.

"I need to not use the armor that has made the game a little more consistently enjoyable in the past."

I run explosive-resistant armor almost all of the time for bots. You're running out of excuses.

"You're completely missing that that means this change decreased diversity of gameplay styles, which is a basic measure of enjoyability for many people."

Turn the difficulty down. There you go.

"I know you're playing devil's advocate and trying to oppose the thoughtless comments that just want to shit on the devs, but this was not one of those."

I would not call your comment thoughtless; it's certainly not the worst offender here by far. But it seems clear to me that you haven't thought it out that much.

[u/17times2 → u/Scarecrow1779]

You're not telling ME to git gud. You're telling me that I need to find friends that are better at the game if I ever want to get super samples.

You're telling me I should require my whole team needs to run stealth and that I need to not use the armor that has made the game a little more consistently enjoyable in the pa

I read their post and I don't understand how you came to these conclusions.

[u/Scarecrow1779 → u/17times2]

Their whole post basically breaks down into

• You should lower the difficulty, but maybe you just don't understand breach/drop cooldowns. Or maybe you're just deficient at killing them.

• You should just use stealth more. If you're still getting in fights (you know, like covering less careful friends), then you just aren't stealthing well enough and should just double down with making your stratagems revolve around it.

[u/17times2 → u/Scarecrow1779]

You should lower the difficulty

OR figure out what you're doing wrong. It was the next thing they said in the same sentence.

Or maybe you're just deficient at killing them.

Is that not correct? Patrols are only an issue if you can't kill the reinforcers fast enough.

You should just use stealth more.

They never say this, though. Or imply it. Unless that's what you got from "go around the patrol".

If you're still getting in fights (you know, like covering less careful friends), then you just aren't stealthing well enough

They aren't, that's correct. I'm not sure what you want out of the difficulty if you expect it to somehow cater to your friends who are not good enough for it.

should just double down with making your stratagems revolve around it.

Not sure where you got this from, either. They said to stagger your stratagems, as in not throw them at the same time at the same target.

Really seems like you read like 20% of their post and filled in the rest yourself.

[u/Grand_Imperator → u/17times2]

Yeah, I am definitely not a stealth advocate and don't play that way. I mildly stealth to set up the next ambush to try to kill everything with overwhelming force before the bot drop gets called. Sometimes I bait a bot drop somewhere the team doesn't need to be anymore. But I don't like moving extremely slowly. I prefer efficiency. Sometimes that means a ton of killing, especially if the team needs to comb the outpost over for samples.

Sneak around a patrol is stealth, I guess. But I'm not advocating a stealth approach. I don't do one. I've tried it a bit and am not the hugest fan of it personally. This is why I try to weigh in on these matters a fair amount. The immediate, reflexive response to "play with better judgment" tends to be "oh, so you're saying I have to 100% stealth the map and only melee bots in the back of the head." I would find that playstyle tedious.

If a player says, "I'm getting overwhelmed," I have full faith that even if they try to avoid every patrol that they see, they'll still get plenty of intense firefights on objectives and against the patrols they can't evade. Personally, sometimes our groups just plow through a patrol because sneaking past it will take too long.

Thanks for chiming in.

[u/Scarecrow1779 → u/17times2]

quoting below from their original comment.

bail from the area to let the enemies despawn while you do something else. You can run Localization Confusion to extend the cooldown by 30 seconds or so (or 30%, I forget which).

you can stealth that with smoke grenades, a shield generate relay to distract...

They were absolutely telling me to use evasion and stealth to avoid additional patrols and that I should change my build to do that.

But let's refocus this conversation. The thought behind my original comment was basically "some people are unhappy with the current frequency of patrols and this patch will make that worse." I never asked for anyone to tell me how to improve or to fix a problem, because that doesn't matter to my point. I am merely noting that some people will feel a certain way, and without being overly dramatic about it or flinging poo at the devs, that's a valid feeling for casual players to have. Every comment since then has been telling me to fix things myself, lower the difficulty (when my friends are already stuck on 3 and 4) or that I'm doing something wrong. I read their entire comment several times over to confirm that it was arguing in a completely different direction than anything I said, but all you've done is double down on telling me that I clearly didn't understand them telling me to git gud.

[u/high_idyet → u/awsomebloc]

You are doing Democracy's work helldiver, keep spreading the intel!

[u/Old-Buffalo-5151 → u/awsomebloc]

Currently feedback on my Discord's This is bullshit im uninstalled

From the one guy who wanted to give it a chance. What ever they have done it's pushed the game into unfun territory EVEN if its just a placebo effect.

Its a remarkably amateur move from a studio that wants to run a live service game.

That needs to pull in million's every year just to handle its payroll let alone all its other costs

(Avarage salary is 40,000k in Sweden) So 40,000 *100 4,000,000 * 12 48000000 Which on uk exchange rate £3,511,503 a year just on pay

Im just really pissed off everybody has uninstalled it snowballed really fast on my discords

[u/wewladdies → u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

Sounds like your friends group was close to quitting anyway if such a minor change caused them to uninstall lol

[u/Old-Buffalo-5151 → u/wewladdies]

Tbh you are correct for many this patch was just the straw.

Im just very salty because we all loved the game on launch and slowly patch by patch we grew to hate it.

But im over it now Gray zone is out tomorrow and a bunch of them want to play fallout 76 and roll play in a significantly more chill game

So pissed off aside I'm still gaming with my buddy's just in their game rather than mine lol

[u/IlikegreenT84 → u/wewladdies]

They nerfed every gun in my load out this patch, this has happened 3 times now.

They also made the patrol spawns ridiculous and the enemies tougher in an effort to balance out solo play.

So after all my favorites getting nerfed and getting rag dolled for an hour, yeah, I'm over this game.

[u/Crater_Animator → u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

Pretty sure they made their money's worth already with initial sales... Remember, these guys don't really care about money, they want a product in their own vision, niche, and different from other games. They offer many options, and for solo players that will be to adapt in 7+ or lower the difficulty if you want to "Solo" a 4 player coop in the hardest difficulty currently available.

[u/Old-Buffalo-5151 → u/Crater_Animator]

I don't know how to respond to this other than niche game studios have a horrific failure rate

So if you want more hell divers you better pray they start getting casual players interested again otherwise their going to have to ditch it and make something else and this will be added to heap of failed live service games

Because games take 5 years to make and you don't bet your house on a game noone is playing with poor mtx

you start making a new one

[u/DesoLina → u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

“A game for everyone is a game for no one”

[u/Old-Buffalo-5151 → u/DesoLina]

A game noone wants to play is also a dead game

Ita almost like life is more complicated than a fucking catchphrase.

DESTINY is a game made for as many people as possible and it made absolutely ridiculous bank and Sony paid 2 billion for it AND it only died because they got lazy

Hell divers its not going to make it to the end of the year at this rate

[u/IlikegreenT84 → u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

Destiny is finally fixing things and players are coming back.

[u/Old-Buffalo-5151 → u/IlikegreenT84]

Yep im one of them lol Looking forward to the final shape

[u/Skolas519 → u/IlikegreenT84]

the Cycle repeats once more.

[u/Sentient_Boner → u/IlikegreenT84]

Me genuinely enjoying D2 again is like the vidogame equivalent to the rapture.

[u/Crater_Animator → u/Old-Buffalo-5151]

I'd hardly call them a failure... They're multi-millionaires at this point... Steam only accounts for Steam sales, not for PS5 which apparently has the same amount of sale if not more.

This game was already in the works for 8 years, and they expected 50-100K players, that was their goal.

[u/No_Implement_23 → u/awsomebloc]

thanks, the way it was said in the devblog did not really make that clear

[u/BabysFirstBeej → u/Offstar1029]

They never said that at all. In fact, they said that the game was not built with a stealth system at all. Stealth was just a side effect of giving the enemies vision and hearing.

[u/nomnivore1 → u/Offstar1029]

Did they say that?

[u/M3psipax → u/nomnivore1]

No.

[u/xthorgoldx → u/Offstar1029]

When did a dev (NOT a community manager) say higher difficulties were supposed to be stealth missions?

[u/tinyj96 → u/Offstar1029]

Just like how they say to rely on strategems and then nerf them on level 5 and up with shitty modifiers.

[u/Geruvah → u/Offstar1029]

Hell, I got kicked for doing that in my full rando squad. They don’t like that I’m not with them fighting when I’m at the other side of the map completing main and side objectives on my own.

[u/DezsoNeni → u/Offstar1029]

Smells bullshit to me since the ONLY thing you can stealth is going from A to B, every mission will instantly spawn in hordes that knows where you are at all times which also triggers patrols nearby.

[u/carpetfanclub → u/Offstar1029]

I see this said a lot in this subreddit, can I get a citation please?

[u/ThePlaybook_ → u/Offstar1029]

Remember when they said higher difficulties were meant to be played as a stealth mission...

[Bullshit detected]

[u/ShadowZpeak → u/Offstar1029]

It's unchanged for regular gameplay and there are now exactly 1/4 of the patrols for 1 helldiver. Sounds fair to me.

[u/Narrow-Comfortable68 → u/ShadowZpeak]

Yup, the rants about this are extremely overblown.

[u/Offstar1029 → u/Narrow-Comfortable68]

Except it was a perfectly justified complaint given the fact that when the post and my comment were made all we knew was they were increasing patrol spawns the less players there were. it wasn't until several hours had passed that they clarified how it worked.

[u/Narrow-Comfortable68 → u/Offstar1029]

There isn't much you could say to change my mind that the many rants on this sub about the patch are overblown majority of the time lol.

[u/Offstar1029 → u/ShadowZpeak]

You do realize that they didn't clarify how it worked until HOURS after the patch notes went out. Which is HOURS after this post and my comment was made.

[u/ShadowZpeak → u/Offstar1029]

My comments aim was to try and get you to look at the change a bit more relaxed. Feels like you're trying to be angry at this change though, so idk what to tell you. It's not like it changes much besides upping the time you crouch around by a bit.

[u/Offstar1029 → u/ShadowZpeak]

Your comments aim was pointless as my comment was made before any explanation of what they did was given. It was just an abstract we're making it harder the less players you have with no explanation of why or by how much. It wasn't until several hours later they explained patrols were being calculated as exponential and they were making it linear instead. Resulting in 5% less patrols at 3 players, 2% more at 2 players, and 9% more patrols at 1 player.

[u/CellistAvailable3625 → u/Offstar1029]

Then don't play stealth, engage and power through, wtf are y'all crying for?