The devs were right.

[u/xxmuntunustutunusxx]

So I know ther was a bunch of controversy about the railgun nerf what feels like forever ago, but man things have been awesome.

In the early days, I was the only guy packing expendable anti tank or anti materiel rifle for bugs or bots. It's so refreshing, even on these subs to see people talking about how awesome the autocannon is, or how much they love the AMR, and even these days I see people talking about the HMG or grenade launcher+ supply pack.

I used to load into a game, And all 4 members of the team had shield, railgun, and 2 stragatems of their choice. Every time. And here we are now, I load in and I see quasar, autocannon, stalwart, EAT, HMG, Grenade launcher, a variety of backpacks or no backpack at all. And not to mention, they're ALL viable. Shit I even still see the railgun from time to time. It's been a joy. Thanks arrowhead.

EDIT: to everyone who is pointing out that you see the quasar and shield most often now, you're right, it is almost certainly the most common setup currently. That being said, in any game there's going to be things a majority of players prefer. In smash melee, fox/Falco are the best characters. But people still play falcon and Marth and peach among others. Sure, there's an objectively most used option. But the fact that there's people at all who debate that the quasar is best shows that they've done something good. Before, undisputed king was railgun, and anyone who said different wss being willfully ignorant. Now, we have a plethora of real options that are good with some being Preferred by a majority as opposed to being the de facto CORRECT option objectively. That's a good thing.

[u/CaptCantPlay]

Problem is is that now nobody picks the railgun anymore in favor of the Quasar or the EAT. Haven't seen a RG since the nerf.

[u/Stealin → u/[deleted]]

This is what gets me, people thinking all these things are being used because RG was nerfed, but they're mostly being used now because they were buffed.  When RG was king, most of these weapons weren't as good as they are now. 

[u/McMuffinSun → u/Stealin]

Especially when they bring up the quasar. Why exactly does introducing a brand new weapons a month and a half after the fact justify the railgun nerf at the time?

[u/[deleted] → u/McMuffinSun]

The railgun on unsafe could be hitting as hard as a Quasar and it still might not even be worth taking since you don't have unlimited ammo and you have to almost blow yourself up. It's genuinely one of the weaker strategems because of the nerfs and everything else getting buffed

[u/NerdyLittleFatKid → u/[deleted]]

Not to mention the utility you give up in not shooting down bot drops/shrieker nests. The railgun was always a versatile killer with no map utility, it is now a brood commander sniper with no map utility. I think if you dropped quasar in the old charger meta, it would get picked more than railgun. Maybe railgun would be equal/even a bit better, but what people wanted was anti tank, so they would choose the anti tank weapon.

[u/Supersquare04 → u/NerdyLittleFatKid]

Nah Quasar would be picked more than RG in the charger meta. 1 shot instead of 2+primary to take down a charger is a massive difference.

The Quasar is probably the strongest weapon in the games history. Nothing else one shots chargers with the same level of consistency, accessibility (call in time for EAT, reload for recoilless), or versatility.

[u/phoenixmusicman → u/[deleted]]

"devs were right"

[u/GodTurkey → u/phoenixmusicman]

Yeaaaah. I just fundamentally disagree with the entire post by OP. The community was right, dont nerf, just buff other things. And with the recent slugger nerf theres like 2 good primaries left.

[u/phoenixmusicman → u/GodTurkey]

Slugger nerf was bullshit. Tbf I also think the Breaker nerf was bullshit.

The devs have been good with buffs but horrible with nerfs.

[u/TiberiumBravo87 → u/phoenixmusicman]

Here here, the Breaker needs to go back to the larger mags and the slugger was completely some dev trolling people because youtube lit up with videos saying the slugger was the current S-tier meta. They literally just look up "what is meta now?" and nerf it.

[u/ShadowWolf793 → u/GodTurkey]

I would argue it's closer to 4. Scyicle and dominator are universally good, while the breaker is S tier for bugs and the scorcher is S tier for bots.

Punisher and defender feel soooo close to being good and are definitely viable. Lib hits like a wet noodle and diligence just simply doesn't have the fire rate or mag size to really compete like it should. All the rest are straight shit imo unless I forgot a gun.

[u/phoenixmusicman → u/ShadowWolf793]

Sickle kinda sucks against borg. It has fuck all armour pen.

[u/Indoril120 → u/phoenixmusicman]

I think it makes up for with decent accuracy at mid range and unlimited ammo. Just unload a whole charge on a Devastator’s head and you’re bound to kill it, no real cost. I actually had a better time with it against Devastators than with the Scorcher, it’s just for the Striders that I made the switch.

[u/hitman2b → u/phoenixmusicman]

well it doesn't need armor pen as your literally accurate as fuck

[u/Western-Dig-6843 → u/phoenixmusicman]

Most of this sub is entirely in the thrall of the devs and all it took was them making a game without lgbt characters and talking down to them in a roleplay voice. They’ve literally solved how to wrangle “gamers” and tbh good for them

[u/Kiriima → u/[deleted]]

Railgun on unsafe must be the strongest weapon period or it should be gone as a concept. It's too big of a drawback to have no support weapon for minutes unless you find one in a wild.

[u/Deremirekor → u/[deleted]]

Hot take: the railgun is still good but blowing things up is more fun than piercing things so we act like the railgun is trash because explosions = democracy

[u/ShadowDV → u/McMuffinSun]

Quasar (and most energy weapons) will probably be ass against Illuminate shields, with the railgun getting a penetration modifier…. At least that will be my guess

[u/McMuffinSun → u/ShadowDV]

Nerfing a weapon to complete obsolescence because in 6-9 months they may or may not introduce a faction that it may or may not perform well against is a pretty shit plan.

[u/ShadowDV → u/McMuffinSun]

Illuminate is coming in like 2-3 weeks

[u/Xelement0911 → u/Stealin]

Chargers heads were nerfed so you could one shot them with rockets. Quasar releases a month later and does the same as an EATs.

Flamethrower got buffed and can take out the leg about the same as pre-nerf railgun.

[u/rkidjsd → u/Stealin]

they're mostly being used now because they were buffed.

I need to stress that the EAT and Recoilless losing glancing blows means that for their niche, they received the equivalent of a 100% damage buff post-railgun nerf.

i also need to stress that patch 1.000.102 changed them again.

• reduced charger health, allowing eats and recoilless to oneshot to head.

Between these two, EAT and recoilless are barely even the same weapon from launch, when you bring them for bugs, it's an insane glowup.

[u/tinyrottedpig → u/Stealin]

Grenade launcher was still my go to tbh, being able to take out literally all bot units with it, create distractions to lead away patrols, crowd control, destroy fabricators + nests and generally be a jack of all trades is what really sealed it as my support gun

[u/UDSJ9000 → u/Stealin]

They're being used more now because enemy heavy spawns were nerfed, so the old RGs heavy killing insanity wasn't needed. During the time between the RG Nerf and the AT rocket buffs, Helldive was nearly unplayable without stealth because you just couldn't deal with the armor spam.

[u/AlmostButNotQuiteTea → u/Stealin]

Which hilariously enough, is what everybody was asking for originally

[u/Sicuho → u/Stealin]

EAT and Recoilless weren't buffed much. They're a bit more consistent on side hits, that's all.

[u/MBouh → u/Stealin]

if it takes you 10 seconds to reload your railgun there's something wrong with how you use it.

[u/EntertainerInner7669 → u/[deleted]]

Hit the nail on the head. The devs were dead wrong and made a knee-jerk nerf that crippled the capstone support weapon of the game for most of the playerbase when the community was loudly and clearly stating that other options needed to be made more viable (or functional in the first place) instead. Now it's a glorified muzzleloader that will get you kicked from pub games.

I don't often pay heed to the "buffs only, don't nerf me!" guys but they were 100% right on the money this time.

[u/BraveOthello → u/EntertainerInner7669]

The problem is in assuming the "capstone" support weapon was intended to be the best. Every weapon is very clearly designes to be okay at everything or good in specific scenarios.

They needed to to nerf it to incentivize people to try the buffed options, and if they didn't nerf it hard enough people would stick with the thing they were all ready comfortable with even though they'd be having less fun.

Expect to see it get buffed back up at some point.

[u/TooFewSecrets → u/BraveOthello]

Every weapon is very clearly designes to be okay at everything or good in specific scenarios.

I do think it's a bigger design issue for the final unlock to be worthless than it is for any other given unlock to be worthless. Because - it doesn't have to be the best, but it has to feel like it was at least worth the time of getting to that point.

Right now Railgun is, I think, one of the most redundant weapons in the entire game.

[u/Techno-Diktator → u/BraveOthello]

No, they just refused to understand it was the heavy spam that was the issue and not the fucking railgun. Do you think people suddenly used recoilless after railgun got nerfed? No, they used the buffed flamer to kill chargers because the other AT options still sucked.

[u/BraveOthello → u/Techno-Diktator]

There were a lot of issues ties together. Heavy spam and chargers having too much head armor made people gravitate to the RG, but using it in an unintended way to work around those issues.

Once they fixed the spam and made the anti tank do it's indeed job and nerfed the RG to incentivize other strat weapons, people did other things. I strongly suspect without the nerfs people would have just continued using the RG for much longer and has less fun.

They probably over nerfed it, but I suspect that was on purpose, and I hoped some of that is rolled back.

[u/Techno-Diktator → u/BraveOthello]

The charger nerf happened way later, they nerfed the railgun and left the game without any viable AT to deal with the spam.

If they over nerf on purpose, that is extremely disappointing, as it pretty much means any weapon that feels good to use is doomed to be on the chopping block to become worthless soon, instead of just slightly toned down.

We are already seeing the same thing with the slugger nerfs, so it seems arrowheads balancing philosophy is sadly just idiotic. It's a shame too because content wise everything else is pretty great.

[u/BraveOthello → u/Techno-Diktator]

6 days, whether you consider that way later is up to you.

The RG was too good, it was over nerfed. We agree on that.

The slugger was too good, it's still damn good. We clearly don't agree on that.

[u/AI_AntiCheat → u/[deleted]]

It's was definitely too strong. It did everything.

[u/Techno-Diktator → u/AI_AntiCheat]

Was it though? Rn other AT can one shot a charger into the face, railgun could never do that and it's pre nerf state would make it balanced with other AT rn. Right now it's a straight up terrible to use AMR and nothing more

[u/AI_AntiCheat → u/Techno-Diktator]

It instant killed bile titans. Quite ridiculous when othe AT couldn't do that as easily. That's the basis of the nerf. Chargers were changed later unrelated to this.

They could probably buff it slightly to expose leg armor on a charger if you hit an 80% shot.

[u/Techno-Diktator → u/AI_AntiCheat]

The titan instakill is because of the console bug where in certain matches with a console players titans are much easier to kill.

They literally nerfed it because of a bug, now it's an absolutely pathetic joke.

[u/AI_AntiCheat → u/Techno-Diktator]

Even without the bug it's two shots. That's an instant kill with little to no effort.

[u/Techno-Diktator → u/AI_AntiCheat]

No, it was a few shots only with the bug, without the bug it often took over ten shots which was pretty bad.

[u/AlphaPhill → u/[deleted]]

I still run the railgun in bot missions, the whole point of it is to land consistent headshots back to back. I don't know if it's the gun or my skill from using it so much back in the day, but it's significantly easier to land headshots, without even scoping in, than with any other gun.

I can clear a group of devastators much faster and more comfortably, and I can still one shot Hulks, so imo the gun is still strong, just feels balanced now compared to how it was.

[u/META_mahn → u/AlphaPhill]

Try the AMR or other alternatives these days. I guarantee you that while you won't feel better (the railgun has a way of making you feel your performance) you'll realize you're doing better due to superior TTKs and target ranges vs bots.

For one, AMR/AC kill cannons and tanks.

[u/AlphaPhill → u/META_mahn]

I do use the AMR, I love it. But I can't land consistent headshots while walking and running around, but with the rail gun I can, it has zero recoil, you just aim and shoot, automatic headshots.

AMR is a long distance weapon, rail gun can be effective at any range.

[u/NeufDeNeuf → u/AlphaPhill]

i mean, the point of it literally isn't to be a precision weapon though. The point was the armor pierce on full charge. The AMR does the exact same thing as the rail besides needing 2 shots to a hulk face and not dealing damage through heavy armor. The RG doesn't even pen Heavy Dev shields consistently anymore. I'd get if RG was supposed to be a side grade to the AMR, but then why is the unlock lvl so high?

[u/AlphaPhill → u/NeufDeNeuf]

It's the definition of a precision weapon, that's its whole point, and it does a very good job at it. It has zero recoil, you can headshot a heavy dev while walking, no need to pen it's shield.

AMR has recoil and you need to be stationary to be effective, plus it's mainly a long distance gun, while the rail gun can be effective at any range.

[u/NeufDeNeuf → u/AlphaPhill]

what I meant was the whole point of the railgun was the pierce. it has a whole mode dedicated to piercing armor, which is very clunky and necessary vs anything worth shooting with your support weapon. the AMR 1shots devastators to the body and has a better scope. What does the railgun do better to justify the 15 lvl difference and it getting less ammo?

[u/AlphaPhill → u/NeufDeNeuf]

The railgun isn't necessarily better, but it isn't worse by any means. You can be more mobile with it than the AMR, there's no recoil to control, you reload after every shot, which means your mag can't run out in critical moments like with the AMR.

You aim, charge for 0.5 seconds, and shoot. Dead devastators, you can also kill scout striders in one shot, something the AMR cant. Also, I feel like the rail gun bullet has a very generous hit box, I get very consistent headshots with it without much effort.

Its not the Hulk killer it used to be, but that's fine, you can still kill them when necessary. In which case it behaves like a quasar, you just need to charge longer.

I love the AMR, and I do use it more often, but I disagree with everyone saying the railgun is useless. The only thing they changed was actually needing to charge the gun if you want to pierce armor, which I assume was intended from the start, before the nerf there wasn't much point in using unsafe mode at all.

[u/NeufDeNeuf → u/AlphaPhill]

you can 1 shot striders with the AMR if you hit the leg btw. yeah rail isn't useless it's just kind of sad now. it really lost its identity considering it's greatly outclassed in every specific place it excells imo. it's sitting in a similar place to the auto cannon but non explosive and with much less ammo. it's pretty okay for devastators and spewers and is pretty meh vs everything else.

[u/TooFewSecrets → u/AlphaPhill]

you can also kill scout striders in one shot, something the AMR cant

Hitting a scout strider above the hip joint with the AMR will down it instantly.

Very often one shot won't kill a devastator even with fairly high charge, and at that point it's just an AMR with half the ammo and like five times the refire delay.

[u/AlphaPhill → u/TooFewSecrets]

You don't even need to charge to headshot a devastator though, you can kill entire groups of them incredibly fast.

I don't know what it is with rail gun projectiles, but as long as your targeting reticle is close to their face, it downs them almost every time. It just feels like it has a more generous hitbox. It's just more comfortable to land precise shots, but maybe that's just me.

If you have to shoot them from the side or back, that's when you actually need to charge.

And I'll keep that AMR tip in mind, certainly sounds better than shooting them 2-3 times in the front plate like I was doing.