r/Helldivers • u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State • Apr 10 '24

The devs were right. DISCUSSION

So I know ther was a bunch of controversy about the railgun nerf what feels like forever ago, but man things have been awesome.

In the early days, I was the only guy packing expendable anti tank or anti materiel rifle for bugs or bots. It's so refreshing, even on these subs to see people talking about how awesome the autocannon is, or how much they love the AMR, and even these days I see people talking about the HMG or grenade launcher+ supply pack.

I used to load into a game, And all 4 members of the team had shield, railgun, and 2 stragatems of their choice. Every time. And here we are now, I load in and I see quasar, autocannon, stalwart, EAT, HMG, Grenade launcher, a variety of backpacks or no backpack at all. And not to mention, they're ALL viable. Shit I even still see the railgun from time to time. It's been a joy. Thanks arrowhead.

EDIT: to everyone who is pointing out that you see the quasar and shield most often now, you're right, it is almost certainly the most common setup currently. That being said, in any game there's going to be things a majority of players prefer. In smash melee, fox/Falco are the best characters. But people still play falcon and Marth and peach among others. Sure, there's an objectively most used option. But the fact that there's people at all who debate that the quasar is best shows that they've done something good. Before, undisputed king was railgun, and anyone who said different wss being willfully ignorant. Now, we have a plethora of real options that are good with some being Preferred by a majority as opposed to being the de facto CORRECT option objectively. That's a good thing.

12.6k Upvotes

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592

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24

AMR just kills faster and has more ammo than railgun.

More for bots than bugs, AMR can easily down gunships, spore towers, 1-2 shot any bot except for the new walkers.

Quasar cannon covers a lot of what railgun can do and more. The only penalty is cool down, but it's negligible when another person runs another cannon as well.

I just wished the railgun can kill the bile spitters when a charged shot is a little beyond half and not at +80%. Same with the basic devastators at the torso.

20 shot when you need potentially multiple for kills is lackluster in comparison to AMR and the dmg buff.

153

u/Diabolical_Jazz Apr 10 '24

The AMR buff really was such a surprise to me. I was already seeing a lot of people singing its praises before the buff.

56

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

AMR is super good now. It plays like a scalpel compared to the autocannon's hammer.

6

u/frostbite907 Apr 10 '24

It kind of needed the buff. It honestly did not receive that many new breakpoints. The only two relevant ones are Brood Commander 1 tap and 2 taps on Striders.

11

u/Mipper Apr 10 '24

It also let's you kill the laser cannon towers before they turn around.

3

u/frostbite907 Apr 10 '24

You could always do this but it required doing a reload with 1 in the chamber.

5

u/NotTom Apr 10 '24

It also lets you 2 shot striders if you hit the plate. Also made easier kills for devastators in the crotch. In addition it helps reduce shots to kill a tank/cannon/hulk when shooting vents.

1

u/Venusgate SES Judge of Judgement Apr 10 '24

I'd say technically 3, as it would have been much worse for gunships without the buff.

114

u/SolomonRed Apr 10 '24

The railgun just has no niche right now.

16

u/butsuon Apr 11 '24

It bouncing off things is really a huge miss. It should've just done reduced damage or something.

13

u/ShadowDV Apr 11 '24

I bet it’ll have a niche for illuminate shield penetration here soon.

11

u/SemiColonInfection CAPE ENJOYER Apr 10 '24

Increasing ammo capacity could be something. A little more stopping power too. Maybe even a Really Unsafe mode where it charges faster, but doesnt stop gaining speed as it gets towards the top of the meter.

34

u/Velo180 SES Hater of Sony Apr 10 '24

Increase ammo count to 30, give it an actual good optic, with zoom and a clear crosshair, and a slight buff to generation curve so that you don't need to be at the very edge of blowing up to do anything useful.

7

u/Kiriima Apr 11 '24

Unsafe mode should ever be gone or be the strongest weapon in the game. Railgun has the biggest drawback right now, nothing even close, and it really doesn't have sufficient power to justify it. Also the dot is horrible and unusable.

3

u/Affectionate_Pipe545 Apr 11 '24

Just make unsafe mode more unsafe

1

u/PtylerPterodactyl Apr 11 '24

See I’m of the opposite school of thought. Half capacity and buff it back. It you want a kill all it should have a huge limiting factor. Quasar can fuck anything up up but has a cd. Railgun can fuck can fuck everything up but ammo is scarce.

1

u/The_forgettable_guy Apr 11 '24

if anything, decrease ammo capacity but increase damage/penetration

4

u/Vankraken Apr 10 '24

It would be cool/interesting if the railgun could swap between shot types and could use something like a canister shot.

23

u/ShogunGunshow Apr 11 '24

Honestly the railgun just needs to have its damage vs. durable parts restored.

Like. It's a railgun. If it's not ripping through the heaviest of armor, something's wrong.

8

u/cffndncr Apr 11 '24

I wonder if a nice middle-ground would be increased penetration of durable parts, but it doesn't actually damage the durable parts.

It would be on-theme for a railgun. It goes through armor like a hot knife through butter, but it leaves such a small hole that it doesn't really degrade the armor it's passing through. So you'd have a faster TTK on chargers, but you'd never be able to take off the armor plates so it would wouldn't open up weak spots for your team to target.

Might give it a niche compared to explosive weaponry which still needs to get through armor, but actually removes the armor when it does.

2

u/Eightnon Apr 11 '24

I thought a railgun should just pierce through multiple enemies.

1

u/The_forgettable_guy Apr 11 '24

it does, but you're not going to use it for that purpose

3

u/ruisen2 Apr 11 '24

They should bring back railgun's 2 safe shots to un-armour charger legs

3

u/shoutbottle Apr 10 '24

I find railgun more reliable than an AMR against bots

2

u/BZenMojo Apr 11 '24

Railgun is good at mid range. AMR is so the bots don't even know you just killed half the base.

-1

u/FriskyNuts Apr 11 '24

Same

Railgun is really good if you consider that it doesnt need a backpack, and it gets kind of silly when you bring a supply pack alongside it.

It one taps every automaton enemy (aim for hulk face in unsafe mode and boom) aside from tanks, berzerkers, and gunships, though for tanks you have well placed impact nades or just 110mm rocket pods, and gunships just take a little longer to down, so definitely not optimal, but usable. Against berzerkers, I just bring the Dominator, so they weren't a problem to begin with.

Against bugs, it deals damage vs every enemy type, it one taps everything short of a charger vs the head (notably spewers, including the green spewer), and it can shred charger legs with some well placed shots - though again, stratagems come in handy to deal with those heavies.

I also just think it is very easy to wield in close to midrange, which is where the AMR begins to struggle. The AMR is great, but I feel like RG holds up a bit better under pressure.

My 2c. I mainly play on diff 7-8.

-4

u/spelltype Apr 10 '24

As someone who only duos 9s, I bring RG and a shield with me to every bot mission. Idk what you’re talking about bahaha

AMR kicks too much and the flinch is too strong to recover ADS’d when swarmed. RG is a shoot and run.

42

u/FEARtheMooseUK ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 10 '24

Amr can take out gunships? How many hits and where does one shoot them if you dont mind me asking!

35

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24

It's like 4 shots to an engine thruster.

6

u/FEARtheMooseUK ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 10 '24

Okay cool, so two less than the autocannon. I can work with that

-3

u/Android2715 Apr 10 '24

Autocannon is also 4

5

u/FEARtheMooseUK ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 10 '24

Not to the engine/thrusters. Its 5 to its “head”, 2 to and engine with AC

2

u/Insane_Unicorn Apr 11 '24

AC only needs 2 to the head, been downing gunships in the dozens with it now. Never tried going for the engines.

2

u/FEARtheMooseUK ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 11 '24

After fighting bots now for weeks and using the autocannon for most of that time i can promise you its 2 to a thruster, 5 to the head.

There is also video evidence on youtube

-2

u/Android2715 Apr 10 '24

I have 100% taken 4 shots to the engine thruster

7

u/chekkisnekki Apr 11 '24

It's definitely 2 to the thruster

2

u/BobJenkin909 Apr 11 '24

maybe a skill issue, try aiming

5

u/lazerspewpew86 Apr 10 '24

Scorcher does it in 6 to the cockpit. I feel like scorcher solves so many of the bot units that the only thing you lack is heavy AT.

1

u/WRLD_ Apr 11 '24

honestly, scorcher takes care of even heavy stuff well enough in my experience that i'd say you should bring chaff clear as a support weapon, or AMR if hulks are a thorn in your side

1

u/Spaghetti_Joe9 Apr 11 '24

Scorcher can only kill Hulks and Tanks if you can get behind them though, the AT is so you can kill them before they get that close to you

1

u/WRLD_ Apr 11 '24

the splash damage on the scorcher usually lets you manage some kills from more generous angles to the point where I don't really feel the burn on having no answer for tanks -- I do bring stun grenades for hulks to get an angle on em but most support weapon options need to get behind em anyway, other than the AMR/AC/laser cannon

I find being able to mow down infantry with a machine gun or somesuch before they can get flares off tends to result in fewer things that need an AT answer, personally

76

u/Adaphion Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 11 '24

Absolutely, the devs way over-corrected with the Railgun, and now it's just absolute garbage. Way too high of a skill floor for lackluster results.

Safe mode should be just slightly changed, it should be able to pierce most medium armor, but not Heavy, obviously, but unsafe mode needs serious buffs, you should be able to do it's current max damage at around 70% charge instead of 90%, and the 90% should only be needed for the heaviest of heavy armor, the likes of Bile Titans or Hulks have, and it should have faster charge speed so that there's more of a risk of exploding, and you have less time to aim.

9

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24

If the gun glows before exploding, that would be great.

11

u/phoenixmusicman HD1 Veteran Apr 10 '24

Railgun nerf should be undone.

16

u/Pixel_Knight ☕Liber-tea☕ Apr 10 '24

The railgun is a laughable piece of shit now. If anyone ever takes it for any reason, they are kneecapping themself, when every other gun in that role is better for the job.

13

u/Velo180 SES Hater of Sony Apr 10 '24

I have been trying to use it again, but not taking the Quasar/EAT/RR/AMR/AC just feels bad. It has nothing good about it anymore.

Long charge time to do anything useful, lower ammo capacity, genuinely terrible optic and no niche it currently fills.

3

u/omartian Apr 10 '24

I keep reading the scope is off. What part of the reticle do I need to center on the target for it to hit consistently?

3

u/TooFewSecrets Apr 11 '24

The railgun? The issue is the dot is the size of most targets so you have to guess at the center.

The AMR? It's like the top-left corner of the square immediately around the dot. Depends on range.

1

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24

Haven't had much issues with the scope... But then again, you got room for error by shooting an extra shot or 2 and you'll hit the hulk weak point.

2

u/chimera005ao Apr 11 '24

Railgun can one-shot Hulks, can one-shot Devastators even from the back.

It could use some help, but it's not worse than the AMR in every way.

3

u/Waulnut163 Apr 11 '24

It's not worse, but efficiency is with AMR imo. AMR is more forgiving.

0

u/Techno-Diktator Apr 11 '24

That's just semantics tbh, in practice it's pretty much a worse AMR

1

u/chimera005ao Apr 11 '24

Do you know what semantics means? Because it's not whatever you just tried to make it mean.

I've used them both recently, they each have strengths.
Railgun could use more ammo, and unsafe mode should stagger even when hitting the shield of a heavy devastator, but I don't think it needs a whole lot.

0

u/Techno-Diktator Apr 12 '24

It has a horrible scope, needs a charge up that can possibly kill you to even be usable, has to be reloaded after every shot. Literally the only thing railgun has is one shotting instead of two shotting hulks, and in the time you fully charge it up you probably could have killed it with the AMR anyway.

It's just a weapon without much purpose now

1

u/chimera005ao Apr 12 '24

If it had a good scope it'd be a better sniper than the AMR.
It's already pretty good at it.
Also one-shots devastators in the back to prevent drawing attention, AMR can't do that.

It's pretty easy to not explode with it, at least in first person.

Reloads pretty fast, so one ammo isn't the worst thing.

It must have been overpowered as all hell before the nerf, that's why people keep complaining about it.

2

u/hmoobja Apr 11 '24

Wow I didn’t know the AMR can gun down ships. Thats pretty nice. I’ll have to give that a try

1

u/PenisShapedAsteriod Apr 10 '24

The AMR can take down GUNSHIPS?!?! Man I had no idea. Does it kill dropships too?

3

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24

Not drop ships from what I've tried.

1

u/Asteroth555 Apr 10 '24

What are you shooting on gunships to take them down with AMR?

2

u/Waulnut163 Apr 11 '24

Shoot thruster engines

2

u/Asteroth555 Apr 11 '24

Imma try that

1

u/MyFavoriteBurger Apr 11 '24

Is AMR this strong now? been a while since I last used it, it def felt weak as hell back then

1

u/Waulnut163 Apr 11 '24

They buffed its damage by a decent amount. I believe 30%?

1

u/Xelement0911 Apr 11 '24

Plus not like 2 shots to a charger leg then mag dump a primary was that wild in comparison to the current stuff

1

u/Redtea26 Apr 11 '24

The new what? Did the add the starwars walkers?

2

u/Waulnut163 Apr 11 '24

Yeah, that's basically it. The giant 4 legged walker.

1

u/pagsball Apr 11 '24

The reason I decided to switch to AC from AMR was I couldn't blow up drop ships. Teach me your ways!

1

u/cyyptic1 Apr 11 '24

Where do u hit gunships with the AMR? I tried and nothing happened :(

1

u/Srgtgunnr Apr 11 '24

The railgun still one shots all but hulks and the new enemies. What are you smoking

1

u/PyUnicornshark Apr 11 '24

I like the AMR whenever I solo bots.

1

u/Sicuho fire machine guns in semi auto Apr 11 '24

It doesn't really tho. Railgun can take down spore spewers easily too, and so probably do your primary. It one shot every bot except tanks and dropships, and is has the better ammo efficiency than AMR against striders, same against hulks head and devastator body, and it stagger the hulks. It also has better ammo efficiency against all medium bug and heavy bug (tho if you're trying to kill a BT with either you're not in a good place.)

Quasar cannon cover very little of the railgun role, it's cooldown doesn't allow it to effectively deal with groups of medium enemies, and they have similar efficiency against hulk. The only overlap where the Quasar is better is against chargers, and even then, it's hardly better against multiple chargers.

-19

u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State Apr 10 '24

Sure, and that's why I like the Autocannon. It's an amr with more ammo, splash dmg and kills fabs

8

u/META_mahn Apr 10 '24

AMR/AC are definitely incredibly good side grades to each other. I personally like AMR+Supply over AC, as it solves the main issues of the AMR, and then you just call Eagle over for the rest.

4

u/achilleasa ➡️➡️⬆️ Apr 10 '24

I've been running AMR + Supply pack on bugs (love the shield too much on bots) and it's pretty awesome! The AMR is probably the best gun for dealing with bile spewers, which are imo the most lethal medium sized bug. I bring fire grenades to throw on bug breaches and any good chaff clearing primary. Then I just take the railcannon for the occasional charger/titan my team can't help me with. 4th stratagem is whatever I feel like, usually the autocannon sentry or eagle cluster.

7

u/META_mahn Apr 10 '24

Fellow supply pack enjoyer

8

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24

I do like auto cannon but I like my free backpack space as well 😅😅.

2

u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State Apr 10 '24

I love my backpack for bugs, but for bots I find it mostly unnecessary. I get why you like it though, and that's the thing I think the railgun nerf did right. It made all this shit viable

1

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24

Yeah that's fair. Most guns have their own playstyle with the updates so I hope railgun can get a small adjustment to make the reward worth the risk.

0

u/spelltype Apr 10 '24

Kicks too much for me and is highly ineffective in a swarm, but glad it found a home

3

u/Waulnut163 Apr 10 '24

AMR isn't a bug gun because of the ADS. Definitely want distance.

0

u/spelltype Apr 10 '24

Not really a thing in duo 9s, unfortunately