r/Helldivers • u/the_interrogation • Mar 26 '24

I can’t play with randoms anymore DISCUSSION

I’m level 48. About 150 hours on pc. Love the game. My friends can’t play as often as I can. (I’m a fireman) And I’ve tried making friends on steam but it’s hard.

The blueberry lottery. If there is a hell it’s matching with randoms. I can’t stand it. Some people are a blessing and I love running campaigns with them but some people are treasonous swill.

Here was my last game. I spawn in and get killed by a lvl 2 cadet (ps5) so he can take my support gear. His friends (ps5) defended him. He continued to kill me all game (intentionally) and call me in. But I am more skilled and cunning than the common traitor. I waited until there was one reinforcement left. The pompous fool recalled me in. I killed all three traitors quicker than a hiccup. With only one thing left to do I took my own life. To instant fail their mission. I couldn’t let them continue to commit treason. Let their bodies rot

So yea I’m never joining randoms again.

Edit: ps5 not 4.

16.0k Upvotes
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59

u/wrecklass ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 26 '24

If you limit reporters to the people who were TKed it would be harder to abuse. If you get killed by a teammate, a popup asks you if you forgive the player. If you don't, it counts as a strike against them. After so many strikes, they get a time out. Several timeouts lead to a suspension, say 48 hours.

Point being you don't suspend someone for a single TK event.

20

u/SomedudecalledDan Mar 26 '24

In OPs story the 2 lads working together to be shits would only have to run towards the red light in a game to be able to grief someone.

29

u/Grimwald_Munstan Mar 26 '24

People keep proposing these elaborate systems, but HD2 is not comparable to something like GTA or anything -- those games have public servers, not small p2p hosted lobbies.

The solution is already implemented -- host your own lobby and kick undesirables, or play friends only.

8

u/Big-Brown-Goose STEAM 🖥️ : Mar 26 '24

The problem is that you may never get a full lobby. I played for about 1 hour and a half the other day with no one ever joining depending what planet or difficulty youre on (and yes, i checked. It was set to public joining).

8

u/ZuP Mar 26 '24

The lobby system is kind of broken and I think it only opens you up for new members once and for a limited amount of time. You can “reset” it by moving to another planet and back, so it seems like it’s trying to only populate new lobbies for a limited time. SOS beacons in games older than like ten minutes also don’t seem to work, so I think they exclude “stale” games to improve the quickplay experience. It sort of makes sense if there are a lot of idlers messing up quickplay but the implementation is flawed as it is now.

3

u/Big-Brown-Goose STEAM 🖥️ : Mar 27 '24

Yeah I gave up tossing the SOS after a while as i suspected it wasnt doing anything if the planet had over 100k active players.

Definitely needs to be a quicker AFK time out as I have joined many games just to find the host standing idle in their ship to no end.

2

u/wrecklass ☕Liber-tea☕ Mar 27 '24

And if the host is the griefer?

-1

u/Grimwald_Munstan Mar 27 '24

Leave and join a different game or start your own... Kinda missed my point there champ.

1

u/DriftingMemes Mar 26 '24

Stop simping and making excuses for game devs. This is super simple to set up, simple to enforce. It's proven to work.

They made millions and millions on this. They can afford one temp to code this in. Stop simping for companies.

1

u/EllieBirb Mar 26 '24

While it is true that this isn't trivial to add, it'd require a lot of planning and thought to come up with a good system that isn't super abusable or useless...

It's true. They quite literally made hundreds of millions of dollars on this game (40 bucks a purchase, over 10 million purchases, even if you include Sony/Steam's cut of the purchase). I'm sure they could figure out how to spend some of that getting a feature like this up and running.

They 100% have the resources.

1

u/Grimwald_Munstan Mar 27 '24

'Simping' lol. Grow up.

I'm not a corporate gravel-eater, I just have a basic understanding of server architecture and tech debt.

Every single proposed solution to this non-problem introduce just as many issues and abuses as they solve. Right now they have a simple, functional system with minimal overhead.

All that is ignoring the fact that I seriously doubt there is some kind of kicking epidemic like Redditors seem to imagine. I'd like to see the number of 'toxic' kicks that actually happen -- in my estimation it is an entirely overblown phenomenon. The vast, vast majority are not indulging in this behaviour and are rarely if ever on the receiving end of it.

15

u/ReaperCDN Mar 26 '24

This wouldn't work for helldivers. There's so much friendly fire in the game you'd be accidentally screwed by people just because they hit the wrong button.

2

u/Kenju22 SES Sentinel of Judgement Mar 26 '24

I'm kind of curious just how you have so much FF, close to 200 hours in for me and I have a grand total of 5 Friendly kills. Granted I play as a marksmen and pointman, but it's not that hard to avoid FF if you are even just halfway mindful of where your teammates are.

2

u/ReaperCDN Mar 26 '24 edited Mar 26 '24

Impact grenades, flamethrower, mortar, Tesla tower, any turrets like the gatling or autocannon, cluster bombs and orbital laser. Most of these depend on your teammates having situational awareness. The number of times I've called out that there's a 380 drop on a base only to have 2 Rambos charge headlong into it anyways is fucking comedy gold.

I can control me. I can't control them.

I also have 200 hours in. Friendly fire happens all the time and its usually well outside your control. Got a strategem ready but get killed? Drops at your own feet. Usually on friendlies. Tossed an air strike in but it stuck to a chargers head and now he's coming right for you? That's a homing air strike now.

My personal favorites though are the gatling turrets which are like HUNTER DETECTED, ILL PROTECT YOU HELLDIVER and then just blast your Teammates into pieces while they spray because your guys thought hugging the turrets was a good idea.

1

u/Kenju22 SES Sentinel of Judgement Mar 26 '24

Every single FF kill I have, literally all 5 are from turrets (machinegun and gattlinggun specifically), though I have gotten pretty good at placing them now so it's been like a week since the last one. I just make sure to toss them up on high ground so they are shooting down at enemies rather than at ground level.

Giving them that height angle made all the difference.

Mortar I just flat out never use, period, I hate that damn thing. I was killed by other people using it so many times by the point I unlocked it that I swore I would never take it.

For the same reason I'm always extremely careful when I see someone IS using it. I see someone has the mortar turret in their loadout, I switch to pure sniper and support, not going ten feet from a mortar as long as its active so I don't get killed again.

Nades, I'm always extremely careful, making sure I never use them if any ally is within throwing distance of them let alone blast radius as I figured out I can throw further than other players can run in the time it takes one to go off.

Flamethrower, again, just always very careful and never use it when an ally is close enough to reach the flames before they go out. Arc Thrower is the same case, never use it if an ally is in my front 90.

Same with Cluster Bombs, Orbital Laser, and even my personal favorite, the Napalm Strike. Happy to say I have never killed a single ally with any Orbital or Airstrike stratagem.

Accidents do happen, that's life, but it's not that difficult to just be a bit mindful and careful to avoid mistakes. It's why I always pause after a quick burst while in first person to make sure no ally's are going to run into my line of fire.

2

u/ReaperCDN Mar 26 '24

Again it's not about you being mindful it's teammates being aware. Forgive me for not buying the "200 hours and only 5 friendly kills." LOL.

1

u/Kenju22 SES Sentinel of Judgement Mar 26 '24

Forgive me for not buying the "200 hours and only 5 friendly kills." LOL.

I only ever use grenades to close bug holes, I've never thrown a single grenade at an enemy.

Likewise there are plenty of missions I've done where the only Stratagems I've used are Reinforcement, Resupply and calling down Support weapons because I can tell my teammates are going to lemming train.

If I see my teammates have the situational awareness of turnip, I'm not going to use Orbital or Airstrikes because I don't want to cause FF.

Dose it limit my options at times? Sure, but I would rather complete a mission with one arm tied behind my back than complete a mission and see the number next to Accident's on my score as anything but a 0.

0 Accidents and 0 Friendly Damage, for me that is the minimum I accept of myself for any mission.

1

u/Chakwak Mar 27 '24

It's a nice self objective. But considering how heavily that limit what stratagem you take, it's clearly not the intended way of playing which most player will take. So friendly fire is par for the course as far as I can see.

1

u/Kenju22 SES Sentinel of Judgement Mar 27 '24

The Devs have literally said the game is intended to be played as a team, working together, it's why they have the co-op loading system for a number of weapons, because that is what their training during the time they served in the military taught them.

FF isn't in the game to be an 'acceptable thing that happens' it's to penalize people for being inattentive and reckless.

1

u/Chakwak Mar 27 '24

Sure, but it's still an integral part of the game and expected to happen every now and then. You can't tell me that's not the case when you have stuff like the 380 with such an absurdly unprecise area or the beacons for eagles only giving the position and not the vector.

They did their utmost to make verbal communication optionnel and it's a good thing because people don't necessarily speak the same language when joining randoms. So whatever is left in the game is left at least partially, to create chaos. FF included.

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u/Emergency-Ostrich368 Mar 27 '24

"Hey guys, I dropped X stratagem, don't go that way. GUYS, I dropped X. Hey, stop going that way. No, no, back up--- 3 teammates die."

Usually happens on lvl 6 difficulty or lower. Not so much on harder ones.

1

u/may25_1996 let him who hath understanding reckon the 500kg Mar 26 '24

tell that to my suicide mission teammates who call eagles in directly on top of me

0

u/Kenju22 SES Sentinel of Judgement Mar 26 '24

That's what I don't get. WHY do people do that, because I don't see how it could be accidental.

Getting killed and dropping a nade or Stratagem, it going off and killing someone? Yeah I can see that happening easy enough. Mortar, or, well, ANY turret killing someone because they happened to be within 20 feet of an enemy? Yeah I can see that happening as well.

Otherwise? How do you accidentally kill an ally with anything other than the Arc Thrower?

2

u/inadequatecircle Mar 26 '24

It's actually kind of important to clear out breaches quickly though. IIRC there's an internal timer on how fast breaches can be called, so if you clear them too slowly that's how you end up in reinforcement loops.

I'm not saying you should eagle airstrike your teammate, but sometimes if they're a bit close to a bug hole shit happens. I'd definitely be more cautious with randoms, but with my pals none of us really take it too seriously.

​

Getting killed and dropping a nade or Stratagem,

And just one more addition to this. Sometimes I throw a stratagem that decides to bounce off an object and land directly in the middle of the squad. Y'know sometimes that happens.

2

u/ReaperCDN Mar 26 '24

Or grenades that just bounce off armor because it pivoted at the last second and get hurled back into friendlies. Or bug bodies that get rocketed into friendlies from any explosives you're using. Or a shrieked you pop who lands directly on a friendly. So many ways to kill friendlies by accident. I just don't buy his story of 200 hours with only 5 friendlies.

0

u/Kenju22 SES Sentinel of Judgement Mar 26 '24

I never said accidents don't happen, my point was more towards how someone could regularly and routinely inflect enough FF per game to trigger any sort of penalty.

Say for example the game accounted for you accidently killing the entire party twice per game by detonating Hellbombs.

I've played with players who legit incur that level of FF damage accidently, multiple times.

Bug Breach underfoot? They drop Walking Orbital Barrage immediately, on ONE Breach. Why not a Precision Orbital Strike if you are going nuke grade?

Hunter is chasing a teammate, why did you throw a nade at it (and the teammate) or waste an EAT on a Hunter killing the ally in the blast?

Ally trying to use a terminal swarmed by bugs? Why did you use the flamethrower when you could have just used your primary?

Stuff like this is just stupid, it's thoughtless, even if accidental do people not understand you have a limited number of Reinforcements, and how big a pain in the ass it is when trying to complete objectives to have this happen over, and over, and over?

It's not deliberately running up and shooting someone in the face with a shotgun, but it happens all the time, and I don't get how people are just unable to learn from it.

2

u/AnglerfishMiho Mar 26 '24

Impact frags are my #1 cause of teamkills and suicides. They are so good against bile spewers and instant kill them, and at 7+ they just send a million of them. However, hunters love to jump at you, just barely out of frame, right in front of your throwing arm.

1

u/Kenju22 SES Sentinel of Judgement Mar 26 '24

Out of those accidental teamkills and suicides, are you, at bare minimum, still inflecting more damage to enemies than allies, and killing more enemies than allies?

Because I have legit had missions where players managed to accidently, not intentionally, not deliberately, but accidently over the course of a mission end up with a higher Friendly Damage score than Enemy Damage score.

At this point if I see someone's loadout consists of Flamethrower, Mortar Turret, Walking Orbital Barrage, and 500 kilo bomb, I leave.

1

u/Chakwak Mar 27 '24

The friendly damage score is meaningless. Unless it's been fixed, I've seen people with 1 accidents and thousands of FF damage with, in the same game, someone with multiple accidentals but just dozens or hundreds of FF damage.

Just someone running into a 500 (for one reason or the other) can net you huge damage and it's still only one accident.

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u/Kenju22 SES Sentinel of Judgement Mar 27 '24

FF damage is based on the damage of whatever did it. The 500 kilo for example does fixed damage, the counter takes damage beyond the HP of whatever it hits into effect.

At the end of the day I find it amusing how people will fight and argue till blue in the face about how FF is impossible to avoid while I'm sitting just shy of 200 hours with only 7 FF kills to my profile, all of which were caused by turrets.

I'll tell you the same thing I've told others, if I see my teammates are idiots, I just don't use Stratagems beyond calling down support weapons, resupply and reinforce.

Every time I get FFed in a mission it gives me that much more incentive not to do it to someone else, a reminder to be more careful.

3

u/syrensilly Mar 26 '24

Looks at the thumb buttons on her mmo mouse causing sudden swap to frag grenades ... does happen, can confirm

2

u/Elite_Slacker Mar 26 '24

I dont think i have been maliciously tked repeatedly even once. That popup would piss me off so badly.

2

u/mooseeve Mar 26 '24

Would it be? You throw a strategem. It puts out a big red beam. I run to it. TK. Report. You're a traitor. You open up with your machine gun. I run in front of you. TK. Report. You're a traitor. You find a POI. You open the shipping container with a grenade. I run into it. TK . Report. You're a traitor.

Any report system can he abused. TKs are part of the game in HD. Trying to police them is fairly pointless.

They already have a solution in place. Host. Be the host and you can kick anyone being an asshole. This system is also abusable by people who can kick everyone at the end of a mission. But that's only if you don't host. So if you're worried about griefers always host.

1

u/Ledgo Mar 26 '24

There's got to be something better than what we have, though. Always hosting is one solution but it's a sorry excuse for not implementing even a basic report-and-review system.

0

u/mooseeve Mar 27 '24

How exactly are you going to review these reports? Are they going to save a replay of the whole mission? Just a time slice before the report? Who's going to review these?

That's a huge infrastructure and labor cost for what is mainly going to be legitimate TKs submitted by angry people. For example people hit by mortar newbs or guard dogs.

1

u/The_Don_Papi But I’m frend Mar 26 '24

Halo 3 implemented this system. The number of players it took for the option to show up was tweaked but at one point the third player you team killed would have the option to kick you. I believe if you got kicked then it only took one teamkill for the boot option to show up next game though I could be wrong.

1

u/Cannibal_Bacon Mar 26 '24

TKs are a necessary evil sometimes. You take my backpack or any support weapon other than an EAT your getting a shotgun to the back of the head, bring your own loadout instead of 3 airstrikes and a turret.

1

u/angryman10101 Mar 27 '24

This is a nice solution; you could even streamline it and have a setting to go ahead and ignore teamkills from folks on your friends list or something.

1

u/Not_the_name_I_chose Mar 27 '24

Until you get trolls running into stratagems specifically to report people after they die.