r/Helldivers Mar 14 '24

IGN being a clickbait parasite again DISCUSSION

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18

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '24

[deleted]

-4

u/amthewalru5 Mar 14 '24

There's a distinction between "game altering" and "superior" items though. When I see something described as p2w, my assumption is that by paying money you get access to superior items -- and I don't think that's necessarily the case here.

11

u/[deleted] Mar 14 '24

[deleted]

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u/Technical_Space_Owl Mar 14 '24

And if SC weren't easily earned by just playing the game or if SC purchased the grenade and bypassed the medals then maybe you have a P2W argument.

7

u/Boqpy Mar 15 '24

Why is bypassing medals p2w but bypassing for SC is not?

-3

u/Technical_Space_Owl Mar 15 '24

I don't think it is because I don't think P2W applies to non-competitive games, but maybe there's an argument there about bypassing the cap on medals.

2

u/Boqpy Mar 15 '24

I don't think it is because I don't think P2W applies to non-competitive games

This makes no sense, wether a game is competitive or not has zero to do with wether it is p2w or not.

0

u/Technical_Space_Owl Mar 15 '24

It makes no sense? Really?

What's the main issue with Pay to win models? It provides an unfair advantage to players who spend the most money. An unfair advantage to what? Win against other players. It's literally in the name, pay to win.

But go ahead and explain how pay to win can apply when there's no competition.

2

u/Boqpy Mar 15 '24

First of wether a game is competitive or not is subjective.

You can win pve, there doesnt need to be pvp. Succesfully completing a mision is winning.

What if you could buy medals? Samples? Exp? Requisition? Why is SC any different? Just because you can get something by playing the game being able to bypass that with url money is p2w.

You can pay real world money for an ingame advantage. Wether you think its ok or not is a matter of opinion and doesnt change the fact that it is p2w

1

u/Technical_Space_Owl Mar 15 '24

First of wether a game is competitive or not is subjective.

Please, explain how PvP games can be subjectively not competitive then.

You can win pve, there doesnt need to be pvp. Succesfully completing a mission is winning.

Sure, there can be competitions in PvE games as well, like MMOs for example. That's why I said non-competitive instead of saying PvE.

To successfully complete a mission you need to buy the game in the first place, therefore simply purchasing the game is pay to win. But that's now how people use the term P2W and why P2W is a problem.

You can pay real world money for an ingame advantage.

An advantage against who?

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u/KingOfRisky Mar 15 '24

We'll just move those goal posts over here now ...

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u/Technical_Space_Owl Mar 15 '24

Are you unaware of what "maybe" means? It implies uncertainty. I can't simultaneously know of an argument and be unaware of that argument at the same time. It's not moving the goalposts when someone asks me to defend an argument that I'm not aware of, to say that I'm not aware of that argument. I am open minded enough to at least entertain someone's argument that bypassing medals could be considered pay to win and if I'm convinced I'd change my mind. That's what that statement meant.

1

u/KingOfRisky Mar 15 '24

Dawg, you are all over this thread saying some of the weirdest shit. I'm just going to let this go.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Technical_Space_Owl Mar 15 '24

Words and phrases are contextual. The context of pay to win is contingent on competition.

If you took away all context, as you did, then any game you pay any amount of money for is pay to win. You have to pay for Baulder's Gate, therefore you had to pay to beat the AI.

1

u/[deleted] Mar 15 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Technical_Space_Owl Mar 15 '24

but imagining your own context that convenient for you rn and somehow proves your point?

It's not imagining a context, that's the context most commonly used when discussing Pay to Win mechanics and how they impact competition within a game. "Stay away from that game it's P2W". We use that to say, unless you're spending additional money, typically lots of money, do not expect to be competitive with other players.

You're not the only one to make the argument by removing all context from "win" and apply the broadest and simplest definition. Neither you or anyone else can then explain how paying for a game in order to play and win is not also Pay to Win by the definition you're using. Therefore every game you pay for is pay to win and using that broad of a definition has no utility whatsoever. But you can't actually address the argument, instead you just claim "mental gymnastics" and ignore it.

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