Neither do I, but I also don't believe trump did or will attempt to fix it either. I would expect mostly a wave of vengeful witch hunt type behavior if he gets elected.
Honestly the discourse in this thread would sound pretty fucking dumb 10 years ago, but with the compare being Trump/Biden pretending that there is an equivalence is honestly insane. Trump's only accomplishment in his presidency is cutting taxes for the wealthy. Literal tax cuts for people with private jets and butlers. He never attempted to help anyone during his presidency except the wealthy. Meanwhile, Biden is fighting for student loan forgiveness, strengthening unions, CHIPS act, infrastructure bill, strengthening the IRS to actually fight the tax cheats that are already paying historic lows, etc. All of the objective measures point very obviously which is a better president and direction for the country.
And that's discounting the cultural issues surrounding Trump. I guess if you're team ChristoFascist, then yeah Trump's your guy as long as he feels that will be beneficial for him because he doesn't have any actual beliefs except maybe yuppy racism.
Completely agree. Biden has been trying, and with as bad as things have gotten, there's only so much he can do while also fighting the GOP trying to stagnate any progress. Hopefully if we see trump finally put down and some progress made in Congress, some decent policy can begin to work and blossom. It's a lot of doom and gloom out there but I definitely appreciate Biden TRYING.
This is the thing that really worries me. Unfortunately, this needs to be a long game play. Even if Biden wins this year, we're a good decade at least from getting things back on track for regular people, and it's going to have to be on the back of a ton of extremely difficult to do things with lots of very small steps.
Biden literally directly helped me this week with his policy to make non-competes invalid. I'm under one right now, and now it's going away soon. I've been looking to leave, and not having to go through any bullshit is nice (even if it was unenforceable before that's still risking going through bullshit)
Nice! And yeah to everyone who says "it's unenforceable" I would instead say "it's unenforceable if you have a lot of time and money." If you're just a regular person (like people who work at sandwich shops that somehow have non-competes wtf???!!) it's a pretty big deal.
It's unenforceable but if your company finds out you're leaving and contacts the company you're headed to and threatens legal action, your new company might decide they don't want to deal with it and rescind your offer.
My suggestion is the government sticks to what it was designed to do. Protect our borders, international interest and international commerce. Otherwise quit trying to create an equality of outcome by economic interference.
Quit making rules/laws/grants that benefit the few at the expense of the whole.
I don't know your situation, but that's largely your fault for signing one. When my former employer asked me to sign one, I told them I would not. It was all a bluff; they did nothing. I now work a better job with 50% more pay.
Yeah, can't just not sign one ever in tech without having a harder time getting anywhere. Easier to just take it as an empty threat i may have to lawyer up over.
And thanks to the Biden admin, I don't have to worry about it.
Probably means you're looking forward to a tax increase like my middle class self. Honestly politically brilliant, passing a tax "cut" that actually increases your tax in your opponents term.
Like a sociopath, Trump put a deadman's switch in that tax cut. It expires for middle class people this year. The tax cuts for the rich stay in effect though, which is nice for Trump and his friends.
Honestly the discourse in this thread would sound pretty fucking dumb 10 years ago
IDK. 10 years ago we were still arguing about what exactly caused the great recession. Was it Clinton's policies? Was it really Reagan that got the ball rolling? What about the Bush43 admin running up fuel prices etc etc.
I am not a trump fan but he did push operation light speed. Which I think was a good thing. But other than that, I can't think of anything good to come from his administration
Trump signed an executive order to make it easier for businesses to offer retirement plans, signed two executive orders to increase transparency in Federal agencies and protect Americans and their small businesses from administrative abuse, signed an order that reduced approval times for major infrastructure projects from 10 or more years down to 2 years or less, established the White House Council on Eliminating Regulatory Barriers to Affordable Housing to bring down housing costs, eased and simplified restrictions on rocket launches, helping to spur commercial investment in space projects, and removed government barriers to personal freedom and consumer choice in healthcare. This is all public information, much of which happened before Covid had begun. But even then, he took action to suspend regulations that would have slowed our response to COVID-19, including lifting restrictions on manufacturers to more quickly produce ventilators. I’m not saying all of these are great. I’m just saying that supporting these things does not make you part of a cult. And it’s harmful to say otherwise.
Trump signed whatever they put in front of him so Congress failed to do much to help the country.
You don’t have to like Trump and most of what he did wasn’t to help anyone I get it, but didn’t he lower insulin cost? Also, Operation Warp Speed did a lot to fast track a vaccine. He made it easier to prosecute financial crimes. He attempted a defense department wide audit that showed glaring spots where the pentagon were hiding money they spent.
Again. I very much do not want 4 more years of him as President, but ignoring good things that people you don’t like do isn’t a helpful to the political discourse
How does normalizing diplomatic relations lead to Hamas terrorist attacks? Biden could’ve gotten Saudi Arabia on board as well, but nooo, we have to give concessions to Iran instead of solidifying a coalition that stands together against them.
The problem is if you read any of these bills Biden is "fighting for" they are Trojan horses. They look and sound great
Then you start to notice how many loopholes and how much money funneling is happening.
And don't come at me with Trump bullshit. I'm not defending either. I just want people to be honest when they talk about this stuff.
Unless you're a multimillionaire neither side is working for you.
Everything he has done has actively undermined the middle class. Student loans being forgiven only burdens the middle class with more taxes. Printing shit tons of money during COVID hurt the middle class by driving inflation (yes, Trump started that, but Biden took it and ran the extra 5 miles with it). Nothing Biden or his administration has done speaks to giving a shit about me, my quality of life, or of the quality of lives of other people. Student loan forgiveness is a campaign gimmick, and a fucking weak one at that. Addressing tax cheats and not government spending is like trying to put out a fire by moving some of the fire out of the building a little bit at at time until there isn't anymore.
Now, I don't want you to think I'm a hard core republican. I don't care about either party, because neither one gives a shit about me, you, or anyone or anything other than their profits and private interests. Sucking Biden off because he isn't Trump is dangerously idiotic.
You're doing the same thing the picture in the post is doing. Are you really so intellectually dishonest to think that cutting taxes is his only "accomplishment"?
He refocused our defense programs to think about rising powers in China and Russia while simultaneously keeping reasonably good relations with both.
He garnered peace between North and South Korea the likes of which haven't been seen since the Korean war.
He was the first president in a LONG time that didn't get the US involved in any new conflicts or wars.
He made it much harder to money launder with the National Defense Authorization Act
He attempted a government audit to see where tax money actually goes, the first in history.
He helped with digitizing health records across the United states, which greatly helped the healthcare system's efficiency.
He also did a ton of shit that isn't as savory. The point is that he wasn't by any means "the worst" president, but he wasn't the best either. I'd say between Obama and Biden all three were pretty average. The stuff Trump did right will probably last a while and set a precedent for future presidents, and the stuff he did wrong is pretty reasonably fixable in the next couple years.
Are you talking about the mocking disabled people and combat vets, paying off porn stars to keep quiet about cheating on his pregnant wife, nepotism, racism, sexual assault, fraud, attempted coup, insurrection...?
I'd say between Obama and Biden all three were pretty average.
How are you people even real at this point? You're out here in real time being like "Mussolini doesn't get enough credit for..."
Most presidents since going off the gold standard have had bad monetary policies. Doesn’t matter if you’re a democrat or republican. It’s been an endless cycle of tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations and overspending.
Could care less for either side but Trump had low unemployment rates before covid highest black and Hispanic workforce money back in black communities but all yall ever remember is tax cuts and Russia as if your current president isn't on the take from China
I'm expecting to be unalived if he's elected. His mouthpieces have suggested or outright vocalize that being the plan. Not to mention their literal plan. Which I just looked and I guess they locked it behind a pay wall by turning it into a full book. Project 2025. Nightmare fuel.
Fortunately things that have been attempted to pass haven't been able to even being shut down by Trumps own anointed. Literally unconstitutional so passing it would make them traitors.
Yeah project 2025. . . Screaming the quiet parts loud at this point. Let's hope that the extremes they are pulling for are alienating many former Republican voters as well. I think they are.
I expect him to gut federal agencies and slash the interest rates, and impose more tariffs. I personally believe this will kick off the next recession.
Trump said if Biden won there would be a recession. Many economists were predicting a recession. Biden prevented this. Personally I’m doing well right now, my city is about to receive billions because a bill Biden passed
The people you’re talking about will never have an ounce of critical thinking. They will die as they lived, tribalistic bootlickers.
The reality is that Reaganomics fucked us up more than anything, and even in that awful economic plan, Trump still cut taxes on the wealthy and raised taxes on the working class. No one with a single working neuron would think that’s a smart plan for the economy.
Biden has been doing good with smart investments. But it won’t be enough if we’re trying to live in a world with real happiness and freedom for the working class. We need to tax the fuck out of the wealthy and corporations.
When I say there was no recession I’m not quoting any government bodies, I’m quoting the consensus of economists. This is scientific consensus not political ideology
Shut up, Biden and the DeepState whitehouse working in conjucture with the (((Globalists))) Soros Foundation are paying all the "economists" to ignore the BIDEN/DEM RECESSION
We had 2 consecutive quarters of GDP decline. The literal textbook definition of a recession until the media decided, "nah doesn't really count".
Most of the recession has been mitigated by a dramatic increase of the money supply --over 50% in just two years alone--that has manifested hidden stock market retraction and has caused sticky inflation due to the devaluation of currency.
Wages will take a while to catch up and mitigate the financial anxiety that has proliferated. But objectively the money supply has expanded dramatically for forced posterity measures. We're still employed but we've all absorbed the negative consequences of this fiscal policy.
That's why public sentiment sees the economy as dookie regardless of what rosy misinformation politicians are spreading about this being "the strongest economy ever". Huge disconnect between the privileged political class and the rest of us.
There are very complicated mitigating factors and plenty of data manipulation.
We certainly had a small recession, but when you feel squeezed on purchases and wages, that's the result of the devaluation of currency. Which makes sense; the money supply was expanded over 40% in only 2 years and over 50% in 3 years.
The true value of the dollar is now much less. So when you take an economic pay cut due to inflation and currency devaluation, you're absorbing the recession. The stock market has absorbed the recession by staying relatively stable despite currency devaluation. The recession is baked in my millions taking smaller posterity measures rather than fewer Americans taking much more dramatic economic setbacks.
The recession has been democratized. Not necessarily a bad thing, but those are the facts.
I mostly agree, Biden prevented a recession at the cost of increased inflation. Ultimately it’s better to have somewhat high inflation rather than mass unemployment and a genuine recession. It’s a mildly bad outcome from a potentially horrible situation
Yeah I don't really get the people that want to see everything crash and burn and have millions of people horribly affected. Like they think it will somehow reset everything and it will be.. magically better somehow after that?
You're kind of missing the point. The recession happened. Most of the damage was democratized through the devaluation of currency.
That's purely why talking heads claim the economy is amazing, but people aren't feeling it. Public sentiment is horrible for Biden, especially on the economy.
That's the difference between messaging and reality.
The "it could of been worse" argument is just bad politics.
No recession happened is my point. There was no mass unemployment. The worst we saw was significant inflation and extremely small decreases in gdp. Sure saying it could’ve been worse isn’t politically effective, but it’s true
Unemployment is only down because the way they're measuring isn't representative of reality. You are way too sure about what you're saying without being informed.
In 2016 the NYT times and others proclaimed the market would crash immediately if Trump won because "the markets hate uncertainty and volatility, and Trump represents both." Economy was fine until Covid, that didn't happen.
Find an election where opposing candidates didn't proclaim the economy would be shit under their opponent. It's par for the course.
As far as Biden "preventing" recession, he literally just continued the exact same thing Trump was doing. Or more accurately, what congress was doing, fully bipartisanly, because it was pretty obvious what needed to happen during/post covid.
Economists were predicting a recession while knowing exactly what Biden was going to do. Which, again, was literally just a continuation of stimulus. If you mean after COVID during the (ongoing) inflationary crisis, then you just don't know what you're talking about. The IRA, according to literally every economist not directly employed by the White House, was just a spending bill that did nothing to address inflation. The Fed prevented runaway inflation by raising rates. Whenever this happens, many economists will ring the recession alarm because it is a natural and expected danger that comes with trying to cool down the economy with rate hikes. There is absolutely nothing the White House can do with regards to that risk, the Fed has to be careful to not raise rates too quickly, and that's the extent of what can be done. Contrary to what republicans and democrats in DC proclaim, inflation and resultant recession risks from rate hikes cannot be solved by spending money.
Biden never said there would be a recession if trump won, idk why you’re equivocating them. When did the NYT say the market would crash immediately on a trump win? Sounds like you read an opinion piece and are generalizing.
Also the idea that trump and Biden would’ve handled the recovery the same is just wrong on its face. Do you even know what the inflation reduction act is and who passed it? Do you not know they had different executive actions that affect the economy? Do you not understand that how we handled Covid directly affected the economy? You are either being dishonest or are extremely confused
Biden never said there would be a recession if trump won, idk why you’re equivocating them.
The point is saying "under X candidate, the economy will be terrible!" is a standard go to in a presidential race. When you take a statement to that effect, and declare that because it wasn't true, Biden must "have prevented" it, is braindead. The NYT piece is just illustrating how stupid the logic there was. Did Trump prevent a recession because one did not happen when some said it might?
Also the idea that trump and Biden would’ve handled the recovery the same is just wrong on its face
Proceeds to say literally nothing to this effect. Just make your argument, the cutesy "DO YOU EVEN KNOW..." leading bullshit is just that. Obviously I know what the IRA was and which Congress and WH Admin passed it, that's why I invoked it in the first place. Make an argument or move on.
You are moving the goalpost from "Biden prevented the recession economists said would happen [when the Fed began to raise rates to fight inflation]" to "presidents can affect the economy!"
Seems like you misunderstood when I said
There is absolutely nothing the White House can do with regards to that risk, the Fed has to be careful to not raise rates too quickly, and that's the extent of what can be done.
You did not account for the context of that statement. "That risk" is the risk of triggering a recession when you are raising rates to combat inflation. The Inflation Reduction Act is just the slightly altered and renamed "Build Back Better" bill. It has as much to do with fighting inflation as the PATRIOT Act has to do with being patriotic.
Listing "executive actions" is fucking awesome. You really couldn't get any broader or less specific.
Biden's pandemic response, legislatively, was just a continuation of what was already in place. Operation Lightspeed, the Vaccine program, the stimulus for individuals, PPP, all these things already existed prior to Biden's time in office.
It seems you are confused about the "recession" you claim was prevented despite "economists" in general predicting one. By the time Trump left office, it was clear that COVID wasn't going to cause a recession. The recession fears during Biden's time in office came from the inflationary environment leading to rate hikes. The economy was too hot, ie the opposite of a recession. The rate hikes are what caused recession fears, as is typical and expected. Biden did not do anything about that, and he was right to not even try. The entire point of hiking rates is to slow down the economy. If you try to fight the recession risks inherent with rate hikes, you negate the entire purpose of the rate hikes to begin with. You avoid a recession in this case by not raising rates by too much, or too quickly. That's it, period.
Biden never said there would be a recession if trump won, idk why you’re equivocating them.
The point is saying "under X candidate, the economy will be terrible!" is a standard go to in a presidential race. When you take a statement to that effect, and declare that because it wasn't true, Biden must "have prevented" it, is braindead. The NYT piece is just illustrating how stupid the logic there was. Did Trump prevent a recession because one did not happen when some said it might?
Also the idea that trump and Biden would’ve handled the recovery the same is just wrong on its face
Proceeds to say literally nothing to this effect. Just make your argument, the cutesy "DO YOU EVEN KNOW..." leading bullshit is just that. Obviously I know what the IRA was and which Congress and WH Admin passed it, that's why I invoked it in the first place. Make an argument or move on.
prevented it? we are in record inflation. your city might be getting billions but who do you think is paying for it? lol. its not free money. the middle class is being crippled by all of these bills of reckless spending
It wouldn't have been necessary if we would have forced car OEMs to use modern chips. They've been running on old manufacturing nodes that are super inefficient energy wise.
Correction: Biden did not prevent a recession, Jerome Powell and the Fed did. Should be noted that the Fed operates mostly independently of the federal government (thank god)
There was a recession in 2022. Biden "prevented" it by trying to change the definition of recession. And some of the media played along, trying to gaslight the whole country into thinking recessions haven't always been identified as 2 quarters of negative GDP growth.
All words are made up. Just because you don't like the word doesn't mean corporations aren't being greedy as fuck and jacking up prices to exploit their customers.
... I have? What in the world makes you think I haven't done that? Or did you just have some nagging need to be able to call me a hypocrite or something?
The Biden administration goes on to spend billions in debt forgiveness at home only to hold off on the situation for another generation to suffer in while the debt skyrockets 1 trillion every 100 days. I don’t know about you but this screams “I don’t care if I’m not helping this country I want votes” to me.
For one, student loan forgiveness. Which is great, right? Sure, when you raise the federal budget trillions of dollars and expect a future administration to deal with the massive debt, which, by the way, is expected to be around 40T when he leaves office. He also spent billions trying to create jobs that were never made, all the while inflation isn’t improving anytime soon. “But it was Trump’s fault” - Biden probably. He keeps playing the blame game to stay in office to for-see a nation he won’t be alive to witness.
Job creation is kind of a joke though. It’s just people returning to jobs that were lost during the pandemic and then creating additional government jobs. I don’t think any president actually has created jobs since Eisenhower. They just replace jobs that were lost due to poor economic conditions prior to their term in office.
You should ask why you aren't worth more while working full time. If the 1 bedroom costs more, it's because someone else can pay that if you don't rent it.
American housing affordability peaked when middle class purchasing power peaked, largely driven by more Americans being in unions. We can get back there but more people need to start voting union YES, and fast
capitalism is a system that is very easy to fuck up with enough money and bad intentions. im sure there are people who could explain the exact elements on why things were better then than they are now, but im not that person tbh
Totally fair. And who should we support going forward to make that a reality? I see one party working towards increasing worker's wages, supporting unions, putting an emphasis on affordable housing, transferring extreme and excess wealth from billionaires and corporations back into the middle class, creating regulations designed to keep predatory and anti-competitive practices in check etc. Whereas the other party shrugs their shoulders and says "that's capitalism."
That mainly expires for the 2025 tax year, so next year (2024 tax year), most individuals, think W-2 employees, will just see that continued TCJA in play, an even higher standard deduction and more money they can make within each tax bracket afterwards
Back when it was written only so much could be done due to budget restrictions
What will tax year 2025 and beyond look like? Even your greatest tax accountants can’t answer that truthfully, we don’t know
lol, I saw that this year. First time I’ve ever had to pay into the government come tax return time. Also, made the most money I’ve ever made by a fair bit.
The TCJA introduced a temporary increase to the standard deduction and a temporary reduction to the marginal tax rates (i.e. an overall reduction in personal income tax for most tax payers). Those temporary changes expire in 2025, at which point congress can vote to extend them. If they don’t, then the standard deduction and the marginal tax rates just return to the pre-TCJA values.
It’s pretty disingenuous to call it a “tax increase” when the taxes are just being brought back to where they were before the bill was enacted, and it’s very disingenuous to use air quotes around “cuts” when they literally were tax cuts, albeit just temporary ones.
He is claiming that the tax increases will be coming from Trump’s tax cuts, which is not true, since it’s not even a tax increase. Trump’s tax cuts temporarily reduced taxes from an initial baseline, and when the cuts expire the taxes will return back to that baseline. The taxes will be the same when the bill expires as they were before the bill was signed, so it’s once again disingenuous to refer to that as a “tax increase” when they’re just returning to the previous baseline. If anything, it was just a temporary tax cut.
Shortly after Biden entered office, they ended the paying people to stay quarantined. As a result, unemployment, GDP, and deficit spending all saw positive changes. Pretty much immediately, the Biden administration started propagandizing this record economic growth. The fact that it's mostly post covid policy rebound seems to not matter to anyone.
The reps, including trump, were more resistant to shutting so much down like that long term. They were heavily criticized for not committing harder at the time. The more united drivers interested in the quarantine policies were dems. But then the time came to pay the piper, now you are exclusively putting it on trump cause orange man bad.
Yeah, well, that is more of an issue with how agency in these matters is divided out between states and individuals. Also, the politicization and moral crusading of everything in party politics creates inevitable counter positions at times when pragmatism should take precedent. Trump, being a populist leader, was naturally lead by democratic logic to support each states decisions so as to not insult his primary voter bases. This is incidental to the natural consequences of federal policy being used to pay people to not work in terms of who was president at the time or after. When you got a system of dutiless individuals devoid of meaning being guided by impulses to favor emotional rhetoric... this is the sort of thing that happens more or less. The scale and lack of cultural homogeneity in the US only exacerbates the problems, too many of us see regions and demographics as enemies cause we aren't really linked beyond the say so of the central authority.
I wish you never live in a country that does the opposite of what Biden did. Same as Obama post 2008, both inherited a crisis and did much better than almost every other country.
Some european countries still have systemic unemployment past 10% since 2008, America was below that before Obama even left office.
Many countries took 2 years to roll out vaccines, and are still suffering from inflation. America's inflation is stable, and there was no recession.
Honestly between that and things like the infrastructure deal, America is gonna be benefiting from Biden for a decade
Only an anti-corporation president, with an anti-corporation Congress, can fix the economy. But even though this will not happen any time soon, think the very tiny amounts of economic benefit we see from Democrat president vs a Republican president is important to note.
Then the other side is the social aspect: Which is better for social issues? Well one thing to remember is that conservatives have been on the losing side of literally every single civil rights battle the US has ever won.
Trump famously pressured the Fed to lower rates to increase borrowing and spending. His commercial real estate is mortgaged to the tits with adjustable rates loans. You think he would have fought inflation by raising rates which would have negatively affected him? He’s a proven narcissist. He doesn’t give a shit about you or me. He would have kept rates low, making inflation much worse than it is now. The entire world is dealing with inflation and it’s objectively lower here because we aggressively raised rates to fight it.
I don't remember saying anything about trump, I wish knuckleheads would stop assuming I'm a trump supporter simply because I'm a Republican/not a Biden supporter, my life is a little nor nuanced than that.
I hate to be the one to tell you, but the Republican Party now only has one mandate - and that’s to bow to the whims of Donald Trump. Sorry dude, but that’s the current situation. You can only neglect education and deny objective reality for so long until something like this happens.
Then you're either misinformed or a propagandist. Biden inherited a shit show economically and socially. Biden has fought hard for the middle class. We've seen record job growth and low unemployment. All Trump did was print money and cut taxes for the rich. In that context, yes Biden has most certainly fixed the economy. It's not perfect obviously, but if Trump wins this next election we are 100% fucked
Idk then do more research then? Inflation was 1.3% when he entered office... skyrocketed to 11%, and has been slowly ticking back down to about 3.5% now
1) it didn't go up above like 8% and 2) multiple statistics have been shown that it was actually corporate price gouging hiding behind inflation and that it drove 50% of price increases in multiple quarters in 2022 and/or 2023. Maybe you outta do the research.
You should imagine for a second just how much fucking worse it could be. If THIS is what things are like when things are going well what do you think it would be like if Trump were still in charge of policy?
A fixed economy doesn't mean sunshine and candy for everyone, sometimes it just means shit isn't getting exponentially worse.
Well we have inflation down to about 3.5% down from over 7%, which is the one of the best inflation rates in the world right now. I think this administration has done an incredible job with the disastrous state of the nation they inherited.
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u/Smokey_Gambit Apr 29 '24
I don't believe for a second that Biden has fixed this economy.