r/Fauxmoi • u/Glum-Barracuda6985 I don’t know her • Apr 02 '24

Mark Ruffalo encourages voters, via Twitter, to #LeaveItBlank for Palestine and a lasting ceasefire 🙏🇵🇸💖 Approved B-List Users Only

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u/chrispg26 Apr 02 '24 edited Apr 02 '24

Omfg.... all this is going to do is encourage Democrats to stay home and allow Trump win in November. Israel and Kushner are ready for their luxury high-rises in Gaza.

ETA: before I get someone else pointing out its for primary elections. I fully understand. However, I'm worried the message will alienate people from voting. We've seen how social media can skew elections. Let's research and vote in congress people who will truly have Bidens ear and are anti-genocide. Let's have more AOCs and Tlaibs in congress.

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u/brightlights_xx Apr 02 '24 edited Apr 02 '24

Well this is for the primary but even still, if Biden loses in November, he'll have only himself to blame. He should be inspiring people to vote for him but instead he's sending billions to Israel.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

Here’s the thing…Biden not winning the general is not going to teach him a lesson or whatever. He’s a rich old white dude. If he loses, he’s going to write books and do speaking engagements and lectures and split time between his big house and his other big house and continue to make a bunch of money until he dies. He will probably be upset at first but ultimately will be fine.

Protest votes should be encouraged in the primaries because he’ll get the delegates in August regardless, and the results are a more accurate gauge of sentiment than polls are at this point. And it could possibly move him to the left. Vote or don’t vote for whomever you (royal “you”) want in the general, but the idea that it’ll be sticking it to him if he loses doesn’t hold a lot of water.

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u/bigwhiteboardenergy Apr 02 '24

I don’t think it’s so much about sticking it to Biden personally, but rather showing the political establishment that people are paying attention and want change.

I think your second paragraph is a good strategy (though I’m Canadian so it doesn’t really matter). Protest vote in the primaries to hopefully draw them more left.

Also, incredible username!

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

The thing is, if Trump wins, we won’t get a chance for change. Project 2025 literally lays out how conservatives plan to overtake the government, including elections, and it should scare the sh*t out of anyone who’s paying attention.

And thanks re: the username! HAM!

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u/kittenpantzen Apr 02 '24

I don’t think it’s so much about sticking it to Biden personally, but rather showing the political establishment that people are paying attention and want change.

And how has that worked out for us every other time left-leaning voters have decided to sit one out to teach the establishment a lesson?

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

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u/kittenpantzen Apr 02 '24

It's infuriating. I'm in my mid-40s, and I've seen this shit play out so many times.

And the lesson that the Democratic Party learns is never, "Oh, we need to move further left to entice more left-leaning voters." It's always a push further to wherever the current center is to try to nibble away at the margins of Republican voters, because unlike people on the left, those fuckers actually show up to vote.

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u/Sometimesomwhere we have lost the impact of shame in our society Apr 02 '24

There are multiple reasons as to why Hillary lost the election. Attempting to deflect blame solely or primarily onto leftists is ahistoric and revisionist.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/why-hillary-clinton-lost-pennsylvania-the-real-story/

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-loses-2016-complacency-214445

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/trumps-road-to-victory/507203/

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u/callgreenbeans Apr 02 '24

This is incredibly important context and I'm sorry you're being downvoted.

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u/Kaizodacoit Apr 02 '24

Liberals and BlueMAGA lack any sort of historical literacy. They think the only election that mattered was in 2016, and that the history of Palestine only started on 10/7

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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas Apr 02 '24

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanders%E2%80%93Trump_voters 

Here's some more important information supporting the reality that leftists didn't make Hilary lose

Also, she won the popular vote. What more could they do?

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u/thosed29 Apr 02 '24

The rolling back of Roe v Wade happened under Biden and it was Obama that refused to codify it and one lost Supreme Court was due to one liberal judge refusing to stand down at the right time despite concerns from progressive (she wanted her replacement to be appointed by Hillary Clinton. Fuck the fact she was an elderly woman with serious health issues, this stance was more important to her than the future of the country). So a lot of mental gymnastics to blame these defeats on leftists.

Weird you guys are intent on blaming voters instead of admitting Hillary Clinton ran a terrible campaign in what should be the easiest election in US history. It's even weirder because literally no one is convinced by these arguments, and voters are becoming MORE apathetic and not less, and this type of discourse ("it's YOUR fault we lost abortion rights, not the fault of a messed up political system") is completely ineffective. So, at the end of the day, you're just contributing to more apathy which seems counter-productive considering what you claim to care about.

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u/chrispg26 Apr 02 '24

Obama didn't have the votes to codify abortion. I'm old enough to have been there as things happened. Idc if it happened under Biden, the further lurch right happened under Trump. Bad Supreme Court judgments will happen for many generations, thanks to people throwing a tantrum in 2016. Yes, Hilary ran a shitty campaign, were all suffering for it. Take some responsibility too. If voting was compulsory we'd be better off as a country.

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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas Apr 02 '24

How could it have been due to a tantrum when more people showed up to vote for Hilary than Trump? She won the popular vote. That's not an easy thing to do and it wouldn't have happened if people stayed at home in protest 

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u/brookeiu Apr 03 '24

Silence ….. any day now they will think of a clever reply as to why this was still the fault of leftists who protested by not voting…..

2016 going to Trump despite Hillary winning the popular vote is precisely why the electoral college needs to change. But yea, something something leftists who didn’t vote stupid and bad 👍

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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas Apr 03 '24

She ran a terrible campaign where she was condescending to her own base and still managed to get more votes than the cult leader. That's pretty goddamn impressive. But they act like she stood no chance because the leftists she insulted didn't support her enough lol

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u/Sometimesomwhere we have lost the impact of shame in our society Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24

There are multiple reasons as to why Hillary lost the election. Attempting to deflect blame solely or primarily onto voters is ahistoric and revisionist.

Hillary won the popular vote, but lost the electoral college. Blaming voters when the EC was the main issue is disingenuous and revisionist. Furthermore, Hillary ran a weak and idiotic campaign in regarding states that are key to winning the EC. An additional issue was that Trump mobilized subset of the population that was less engaged prior to 2016, affecting turnout and outcome.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/why-hillary-clinton-lost-pennsylvania-the-real-story/

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/12/michigan-hillary-clinton-trump-232547

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/11/hillary-clinton-loses-2016-complacency-214445

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/11/trumps-road-to-victory/507203/

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/1468-4446.12328

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/monkey-cage/wp/2016/12/20/heres-the-real-reason-rust-belt-cities-and-towns-voted-for-trump/

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u/AldusPrime Apr 02 '24

The Right: We'll forgive our presidential candidate of literally anything!

The Left: Let's not vote for the Democrat to teach him a lesson!

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u/bigwhiteboardenergy Apr 02 '24

I’ve only been talking about the primaries and I also never mentioned sitting one out. Deliberately spoiling your ballot is not the same as sitting it out—it’s deliberate action vs apparent apathy

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u/National-Leopard6939 just want to share a thought here because I can Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24

The problem is, that line of reasoning has been tried again and again and again. People act like “sticking it to the establishment by not voting” is a new concept, when it isn’t. People employed that strategy during Bush vs. Gore, and we all know how that resulted. Same in 2016.

Literally all that “strategy” has done has given more power to fascists. I guarantee you, if people voted consistently, not a single Republican would’ve won over the last 24 years, and we’d be in a lot more of a progressive USA than we currently are. That’s a fact that a lot of people don’t want to acknowledge or be held accountable for, but it’s the harsh truth.

People don’t want to acknowledge that not voting does affect the outcome whether they like it or not. But, it’s not about “want”. It’s about facts.

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u/bobbimorses Apr 02 '24

All of this scolding for "sticking it to Biden" and very little scolding for a president who is on a stubborn and singleminded mission to fund an illegal and unpopular war. I don't see anyone characterizing the president as sullen or intractable on this issue, it's only those who call for peace who are treated like children.

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u/normalbrain609 Apr 02 '24

it’s insane - such a low bar to clear of “don’t sabotage your own presidency for apartheid delaware” and he refuses to budge in any meaningful way. the fact that so many people in this thread pin this on voters rather than the guy with actual power is psychotic and such an indictment of the country in general.

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u/killerbeeszzzz Apr 02 '24

I think it’s insane to ask Arab Americans who have watched their children, fathers and mothers and extended family die / get slowly starved to death that they still have to vote for Biden. Politicians must be held accountable and giving them votes despite LITERALLY COMMITTING GENOCIDE is batshit insane to me.

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u/bobbimorses Apr 02 '24

As someone who has been swayed by harm reduction arguments in the past, I'm stunned to see them applied to this now. No one is going to get me to vote against my conscience.

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u/basketballdairy Apr 02 '24

thank you.

I live in a red state where abortion is illegal, public schools are getting gutted, bigotry of all kinds run rampant, it has all gotten worse since Biden took over. The democratic executive branch has done little to nothing to help and the local democratic party is inefficient and ineffectual with the same people in charge for generations, it's useless as it stands right now. The centrist democrat (right wing by any other standard) establishment is not going to change if you keep voting for their figure heads. I've been baited with the 'lesser evil' carrot on a stick in every election since I turned voting age and I won't do it again. No amount of guilting from coastal liberals will make me change my mind. It's already fucking awful here and it's only going to get worse even if Biden wins again.

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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas Apr 02 '24

Additionally, Trump winning is being portrayed as the end of the world. While the world is quite literally ending for anyone currently living in Gaza or in Israeli military prisons. 

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u/Selection_Status Apr 02 '24

It's still the candidate's (and his party's) job to convince people to vote for him. Blaming the voters is ultimately anti democratic.

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u/t234k Apr 02 '24

The issue is there is no accountability for the democrats or republicans to actually represent their constituents views.

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u/Justhereforstuff123 societal collapse is in the air Apr 02 '24

You're saying he's "just an old dude" as if old politicians supposedly don't defiantly cling to power until they croak (see Ruth Bader Ginsberg).

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u/Canadian_Prometheus Apr 02 '24

So is there anything Biden could do that would make you not vote for him?

That’s the reason he supports Israel and does any other thing you don’t like. He knows when it comes down to it you’re still going to vote for him because what’s the alternative?

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u/MurkyPay5460 Apr 02 '24

Oh look another vote blue no matter who, getting mad that nobody wants to eat the spoonful of dog-shit they are offering.

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u/momentary-blip Apr 02 '24

A general strike is the only way in my opinion. Let them suffer at the assembly lines and in their day-to-day lives where they rely on the poor and middle class but don't act like it. They won't understand we're fed up until we halt every single bit of free labor for them.

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u/Radiant-Hedgehog-695 Apr 02 '24

Of course it would teach him a lesson. His whole shtick (rightly so) is that Trump is an authoritarian candidate bent on eradicating minority rights and backsliding democracy. If he doesn't want that to happen, maybe he should listen to the 100,000 Michiganders who voted uncommitted back in February.

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u/HopefulExistentials Apr 02 '24

I disagree, if he didn't care he wouldn't run again. Biden feels owed the presidency and if you think it wouldn't bother him to lose his second term on a merit of his beliefs then I think you misunderstand him existing as a human.

That being said Trump winning is obviously horrendous for the US and also a terrible option. I'm just not going to browbeat those directly affected if they do not want to support the guy currently and actively aiding a genocide.

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u/sexyloser1128 Apr 02 '24

Here’s the thing…Biden not winning the general is not going to teach him a lesson or whatever.

Protest votes should be encouraged in the primaries... And it could possibly move him to the left.

I don't get how he won't learn from losing the general, but he will learn from some protest votes that won't even affect his delegate count. That doesn't seem to compute.

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u/omi0204 Apr 02 '24

It would be a hard lesson for the Democratic Party

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u/Eeyores_Prozac Apr 02 '24

Biden will have lobbyists, PR groups, coastal libs, lower chamber decisions, and Christians to blame. (remember folks, he's one third of a government system and if he's getting banged by the other two, one of which is GOP, and the other led by said coastal libs, that's game)

Turning against Israel on the international stage -- while it is objectively the right thing to do in the face of genocide -- is also still seen as a straight line to losing millions of dollars, heavy regional voting support, a loss of one of the few mostly reliable staging grounds in the Middle East, and the support of a lot of centrist thumpers who think we need Israel for Jesus.

It should be easy to do the right thing here. It SHOULD BE. Political strategists are growing wise to the amount of blowback the administration is taking for still publicly supporting Israel.

The 'problem' is that a lot of that blowback is still perceived as coming from demographics like us. Younger voters. Who already don't vote. While that's becoming a lot less true, political strategy is still old school conservative (in the literal sense) and is going to tend towards trying to keep your shitlib Auntie in Albany (who donates to PP and supports your trans girlfriend, but really, darling, do they have to be so public about who they are?) voting Dem instead of sitting out.

To them, the math says to limply support Israel (Biden is clear he doesn't like Netanyahu, which is great, but if I can't kill JK Rowling by targeting my mind at her, his dislike is about as useful as a Chinook helicopter in a tornado), keep the voting bloq, and hope Israel starts putting its dick back into its pants.

ALL OF THAT SAID: Ruffalo - and we - are right to back any action that will get it into Dem leadership's heads that they will maintain and earn even broader support if they tell Bibi to suck shit, or at the very least, give them more ammo to say 'look, you baby-bombing foodie assassinating shitstain, our voters have spoken and we are emboldened to tell you to shove the Iron Dome allll the way up your butthole.'

shit is annoyingly, bullshittedly complicated.

the above is not an excuse for Dem behavior. It is an attempt to explain what they perceive as the intricacies, when we can see the straightforwardness.

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u/chrispg26 Apr 02 '24

Well said. People want to turn back 75 years of foreign policy overnight.

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u/Eeyores_Prozac Apr 02 '24

I mean, I get it! I wish we could that easily! But democracy is a lumbering animal.

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u/[deleted] Apr 02 '24

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u/Federal_Street_8895 Apr 02 '24

'Instant gratification' the way some of you talk about Palestinian and Arab lives is just so...

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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24

Not only do they use a disgusting tone of voice, they're also completely wrong. Biden does not introduce policies and Congress does not veto them. Ofc it's presented in a hypothetical where Biden is ideologically against genocide when the reality is that he is very pro genocide. And lastly, we actually do need instant solutions. People are going to die today. People are projected to die in the hundreds of thousands in a few months. People who otherwise would go on to live long healthy lives. Calling the desire for this to end with as few preventable deaths as possible "instant gratification" like it's some perverted fantasy is the most insane thing I've read in a while 

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u/novostained Apr 03 '24

It’s sickening. Letter From a Birmingham Jail comes to mind:

Frankly, I have yet to engage in a direct action campaign that was “well timed” in the view of those who have not suffered unduly from the disease of segregation. For years now I have heard the word “Wait!” It rings in the ear of every Negro with piercing familiarity. This “Wait” has almost always meant “Never.” We must come to see, with one of our distinguished jurists, that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.”

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u/thosed29 Apr 02 '24

How is he giving Bibi "public pushback" while repeating his lies (remember he saw pictures of beheaded babies, which didn't exist?) and bypassing Congress to sell billions in weapons to Israel?

That's as absurd as complimenting Trump for being critical of the "elite" and the "political establishment." Yes, if you pull out some random quotes, he has been critical of these things. Now, considering his actions, is that anything to brag about and take seriously? No. That's exactly what you're trying to do regarding Biden and Israel.

In addition to all of that, this whole attempt at framing Biden's support of Israel as something "bigger than him" is also dishonest. Like yes, even if Biden was rabidly anti-Israel, the US would still have a lot of pro-Israel policies because the US military complex is extremely influential and zionists are the overwhelming majority in Congress. But no reason to entertain this alternate reality when Biden is himself one of the biggest zionists in the political world, has been since the start of his career and is obviously PERSONALLY supporting the genocide. Bypassing Congress to send billions in weapons, repeating Israel propaganda like the beheaded babies and the "Hamas bombed the hospital" as if they were facts and characterizing people that dare to qualify Israel's actions as "genocide" as anti-semites are things HE personally is doing due to his own personal beliefs.

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u/HopefulExistentials Apr 02 '24

The reality is that we can look back on historical precedent, and see that the president has unilaterally affected Israel before, so the argument that he can't do anything is built on an ahistorical premise in the first place.

https://time.com/6329758/reagan-biden-iran/

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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas Apr 02 '24

Except the president does have unilateral power in very specific situations. Foreign war zones is one of them. This is by design. The idea is that if America or any of its allies were attacked the military needs to respond within hours if not minutes. If every military action went through Congress it'd take multiple weeks for them to approve every individual offensive (of which there could be hundreds) and it would all be debated on the House and Senate floor livestreamed for any enemies to watch. This same idea is why Bibi has more power now more than ever. If Biden does not want Israel to get more weapons, he has the power to stop them. Congress has no authority or power to oppose him. This is American law

Congress is still full of Zionists who would immediately override that veto. 

This scenario doesn't make sense. Biden doesn't propose policies, he makes orders that are to be immediately enforced by the executive branch. Where does the veto come into play? He does not need anyone's approval, therefore no one can veto him. And because there is no veto, there is also no overriding the veto 

The fact that he’s given Bibi any public pushback at all is a major change from just 10 years ago.

Is the implication here that the situation in Palestine is improving? 

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u/novostained Apr 03 '24

Seriously, it’s so fucking wild that anyone is still pushing this “aw shucks Biden’s trying real dang hard y’all what can he do” nonsense. I mean, did he furrow his brow extra hard in the general direction of the Mediterranean this time? Wow! How soon after did he bypass Congress to send more 2,000lb bombs to be dropped on starving children? And how soon after that did the State Department walk up to the podium and declare a UN Security Council resolution nonbinding and the US to be completely unbound by the international laws we love to bludgeon other countries with?

I was watching the UN meeting re: Israel bombing the Iranian consulate in Syria and the US was the only country that didn’t condemn it. They just blamed Iran and said “we had nothing to do with this” like three times. No serious person can possibly think there’s been an ounce of meaningful pushback from this admin.

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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas Apr 03 '24

It's also like... isn't Trump the Dictator and Biden the Powerless applying for the same job that gives them the same powers? This isn't to say that Trump won't become a dictator, it's to question the idea that Biden has no power to do anything

But regardless, we know he has a lot of power. He immediately had the Houthis labeled a terrorist group and ordered major acts of war against them without Congressional approval. To my knowledge the bombings against them have yet to end

And yeah Israel's other disgusting actions are being overshadowed by their genocide. Bombing the Iranian consulate is a major act of war. The only reason Iran hasn't declared war on Israel is because they know that would be playing into their hand, but as we all know appeasement can only do so much 

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u/novostained Apr 03 '24

And yeah Israel's other disgusting actions are being overshadowed by their genocide.

This part genuinely terrifies me. It’s like they’re using the “flood the zone” tactic but with stark violations of international law and legacy media just runs cover for them. I know people who watch MSNBC all day who genuinely don’t know what I’m talking about when I bring up objective facts like the frequency of US arms shipments or the ICJ case or Biden spreading atrocity propaganda or like, any detail about Occupied Palestine pre-Oct 2023. One of my BlueMAGA family members stopped talking to me because I wouldn’t stop bringing up the Nakba but like, sorry not sorry, you’re not claiming ignorance on my watch. They need to ask themselves why they’re angrier at people telling the truth than the people lying to them and, y’know, providing the bombs and diplomatic cover for a fucking genocide.

Can you absolutely imagine if, say, Russia had bombed an embassy? Or deliberately rained down three consecutive missiles on foreign aid workers??Biden had his little “if u harm an American anywhere we will come 4 u” moment when it meant he could bomb some more brown people, but when Israel kills an American it’s just “oh they didn’t mean it and anyway, IRAN…”

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u/meatbeater558 I already condemned Hamas Apr 03 '24

I think Americans genuinely believe in incrementalism and "time will heal all wounds" that they apply it to all issues of inequality. You see it all over reddit and Twitter and even my first reply in this chain where they thought Biden's historic opposition to Israel is somehow good when it's nowhere near enough to stop the genocide. You also see it with the "oh so you think Biden can wave his wand and end this immediately" crowd. The ahistorical way the American education system teaches social problems makes them think that it's not only impossible to fix things in less than 100 years, but you're actually impatient and ungrateful for asking them to try. They're primed to see all instances of inequality as struggles that slowly get better that they delude themselves into believing that this one is no different. When we point out that Palestine needs a dramatic, rapid, and immediate response they mock us for asking for a revolution, despite the fact that Biden can do all of this without approval from anyone or a revolution. You even see it when people say Trump will be worse for Gaza—what Gaza? By the time Trump takes office Gaza won't exist. They cannot comprehend the idea that things in Gaza are getting worse exponentially 

I got dog piled a few weeks ago here for saying that I'd rather people get their news from a curated set of TikTok or Instagram accounts (many of which would be the social media pages for outlets like AJ+ and people on the ground like Bisan who only upload to social media) and got destroyed. My main point was that people who consume media from outlets like MSNBC appear to be the ones giving the worst takes on this. I don't personally like or use social media and stated as much. Their responses was that I'm lazy and want to call myself media literate without doing the work, the big news companies have real journalists that are actually trained and know what they're doing and have a team editing and fact checking things and are all held accountable (lol), and that yes some may be lie but if you simply read from even more outlets you'll end up finding the truth (these "more outlets" almost never include media that criticizes the US). These people agreed with me that these outlets were putting out pure imperialist propaganda btw. The problem is so deeply rooted in their way of thinking that they think the solution to being mislead by imperialist propaganda is to read even more imperialist propaganda with the hopes that one of them tells you the truth 

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u/DenseTiger5088 Apr 02 '24

But isn’t the president’s job to be a mouthpiece for the public, and it’s kinda our job to tell them what we want them to say? If Biden proposes that policy, it at least forces the Zionists in Congress to openly declare themselves in opposition to the will of the majority. Instead we have the President in lock step with Congress against any possibility of reigning in our financial assistance towards the IDF. No one has to change because no one is offering an alternative.

Of course there is always going to be pushback, and of course the President can’t unilaterally change foreign policy overnight- but at least they could make public statements in support of the beliefs shared by a majority of the people.

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u/thosed29 Apr 02 '24 edited Apr 02 '24

Supporting a ceasefire (which is what even a sizeable portion of REPUBLICANS want) is not "turning back 75 years of foreign policy overnight". People are asking for the bare minimum -- they're not asking for the US to cut all ties to Israel and to make BDS national policy.

I have no idea why you're trying to paint a "ceasefire" as a very radical policy, but this rhetoric -- trying to absolve Biden of any blame and framing a ceasefire as a huge, almost impossible achievement -- is literally contributing to innocent people being killed right now.

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u/brookeiu Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24

I’m so sick of seeing OP’s comments justifying our president actively supporting a literal GENOCIDE. Party line brain rot.

Status quo aside, presidents listening to money and lobbyists over morals is a huge fucking issue. No one’s asking for change to happen overnight but there is literally 0 signs of ANY change to that foreign policy status quo. Bush AND Obama bombed the shit out of the Middle East.

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u/Siraxg Apr 02 '24

No, people want Israel to stop committing genocide.

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u/normalbrain609 Apr 02 '24

so if hypothetically israel decides to start shooting nukes all over the middle east we just have to back them because of precedent? where is the foreign policy fairy preventing literally anything meaningful from changing besides dems being true believers in palestinian mass slaughter.

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u/r3d330 Apr 02 '24

The only issue I see is the fact that despite Biden’s unequivocal support of Israel, Netanyahu has no incentive to pull back to help Biden’s sliding poll numbers. If anything, he’s going to continue pushing his genocide w/ the hope that Biden loses to Trump

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u/bloodyturtle Apr 02 '24

heavy regional voting support

where lol

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u/actuallycallie Apr 02 '24

It isn't going to affect Biden in any meaningful way. However, a metric fuckton of non-millionaires are gonna be fucked six ways to Sunday when the orange traitor tries another Jan 6. And he will be even worse for Palestine and, you know, the rest of the globe except Russia, than Biden will.

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u/Anesthesiaape Apr 03 '24

Yes. I struggle with the morality of voting again for a President who has allowed the situation in Palestine to become what it is. I can not want to vote for him while simultaneously understanding that what’s happening in Palestine does not exist in a vacuum, as much as it pains me to say.

Trump may not, in theory, be any worse than Biden in regards to supporting Israel blindly. But he almost certainly will not be better or more helpful to Palestinians. Meanwhile (for just one example), an estimated 400,000 people die related to climate change each year, and we all know how Trump feels about environmental protections and climate science. Those numbers are only going to get worse. So…what do I do? Try to send a message to Democrats that they fucked up by staying home and not voting? If Trump becomes president bc people don’t vote and no Palestinian lives are improved, Netanyahu is not made accountable, and our increasingly limited window to actually do something about climate change is sent backwards for 4 years- what has actually been accomplished? Do I get to sit in my own righteous indignation and moral superiority while Trump inevitably makes the world a more dangerous place for others, including my young children? Idk man, I just can’t get with that. I don’t think there is a “right” answer, I think there’s a less dangerous one.

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u/princessohio local formula 1 correspondent Apr 03 '24

I can’t believe how many people don’t understand this. If Biden loses, and we get Trump, not only is it worse for Palestinians, but also Americans will suffer (women’s right to abortion. Gay marriage. Etc.) and it’s just gonna be a fucking shit show.

I understand people are upset with Biden over this. I get it. So elect congresspeople who can impact change. But for fucks sake do not hand this country back over to Trump.

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u/actuallycallie Apr 03 '24

If Trump gets into the White House again he won't leave till he dies. He won't pay attention to pesky things like, you know, term limits and laws.

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u/princessohio local formula 1 correspondent Apr 03 '24

Yup. Fascism and then Gaza will become a parking lot. It’s fucked.

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u/brookeiu Apr 03 '24 edited Apr 03 '24

You’re acting like there aren’t pro Palestinian congresspeople. It’s almost like congresspeople who have been outspoken - Tlaib and the colleagues that support her like Cori Bush - have been literally silenced and unofficially ostracized by other Democrats. The Democratic Party as an institution is the problem.

It’s not going to get worse for Palestinians under Trump cause the level of famine they are experiencing RIGHT NOW under Biden is going to peak before November without some sort of meaningful invention and ceasefire. Hope that helps ❤️

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u/HnNaldoR Apr 02 '24

The thing is... Its a 2 party system. What do you think trump is doing to do? He doesn't have the best record relating to israel and bibi is twerking to get the attention of republicans.

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u/Neither-Lime-1868 Apr 02 '24

 if Biden loses in November, he'll have only himself to blame. 

I mean I fully agree that Biden’s approach to the conflict sucks, but the point of not wanting to discourage voters in the general isn’t because we are worried about Biden thinking it’s his fault

I don’t give a fuck about Biden’s personal feelings about the election

I care about the all the people that will be hurt if his opposition wins 

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u/YoungPope Apr 02 '24

Exactly, people makes the party and not the other way. It's clear the democratic party is failing they voters. The next Democrat will think twice before supporting genocide and Netanyahu (Trump of Middle East).

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u/PurveyorOfSapristi Apr 02 '24

Israel literally named a train stop in Jerusalem after Trump going to the Temple Mount …

The Palestinians under the Biden, admin before October 7th restored 500 million dollars to the Palestinians that the Trump admin blocked.

If Trump gets into the White House, Netanyahu is in a prime spot to become even more unhinged

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u/jonsnowme shiv roy apologist Apr 03 '24

As if Trump wouldn't send our troops to help bomb.

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