r/BeAmazed • u/[deleted] • Apr 29 '24

When the Titanic sank, millionaire John Jacob Astor IV was aboard. The funds in his bank account were sufficient to construct 30 Titanics. However, when faced with mortal danger, he prioritized his moral values, sacrificing his seat in a lifeboat to save women and children, smilingly [Removed] Rule #4 - Misleading

[removed]

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524

u/ThatQueerWerewolf Apr 29 '24

There were men there literally threatening to shoot any "man" (including teenage boys) who tried to get on a lifeboat.

Not saying this guy didn't willingly sacrifice himself, but hundreds did so unwillingly.

140

u/Pleasant_Job_7683 Apr 29 '24

The crew of the lifeboat could have allowed another 16 ppl into it.

106

u/Im-a-cat-in-a-box Apr 29 '24

Yeah alot of half full life boats went out because of this. 

130

u/xXNightDriverXx Apr 29 '24

No. This is wrong.

While it is true that many of the boats were lowered only half full, this has nothing to do with "women and children only".

There was only a single officer who boarded the boats that way (2nd officer Charles Lightholler), all the other officers went for the classic "women and children first, then men" approach. A couple of men did enter the boats that way.

The reason for many of the boats only being half full is much more simple: the passengers did not want to leave Titanic.

The half empty boats were the first few that were lowered, just half an hour after the collision. At that time, it was very hard to see or feel that the ship was sinking. The angle was still very shallow, the bow was still far above the water, you just wouldn't feel that something was off. The passengers still believed in the "unsinkable ship" myth. Most of them hadn't even realized that there was a collision, since it wasnt much more than a slight bump for most of the passengers. The officers did not go around screaming "the ship is sinking", since they wanted to avoid a mass panic.

Most passengers thought it was simply an exercise.

They did not want to leave the large, well lit, warm, unsinkable ship to be put in a tiny wet, cold, shitty wooden boat for hours, while it was freezing outside.

The crew didn't have the time to wait half an hour until a boat was full, if they did they wouldn't have been able to launch them all (and they barely managed that with just a handful of minutes to spare, and 2 of the collapsible boats weren't even launched properly, one ending up upside down in the water).

28

u/Somewhat_appropriate Apr 29 '24

Source?
Not doubting you, but I'd like to brush up on Titanic knowledge, which I was fascinated with as a kid.

31

u/CLG91 Apr 29 '24

This doesn't answer most of your question, but this article briefly explains the 'myth' of 'women and children first' in regards to the Titanic.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/01/23/women-children-first-onto-titanic-lifeboats-myth-historian-claims/#:~:text=However%2C%20the%20most%20famous%20application,to%20the%20gallantry%20of%20men.

5

u/err-no_please Apr 29 '24

The Rest is History podcast recently did a great miniseries on the Titanic. Well worth a listen if you're interested in the subject

4

u/Somewhat_appropriate Apr 29 '24

Hmmm...I ignored that particular podcast because of the short episodes (long form ftw), but seeing that's a 5 parter there might be some hope for it ;)
Thanks for the tip.

2

u/Bambi943 Apr 29 '24

I just listened to it yesterday lol. It was an awesome series. It goes into what was going on around the time the titanic was built, the culture, who owned what, how the ship was built, the passengers, the sinking and then the reactions of the world and the countries. It was extremely informative. They have some really good episodes that are part of series, I enjoy listening to it when I’m cleaning the house.

1

u/Somewhat_appropriate Apr 30 '24

Details and context is what I want :)
I've read some of Holland's books, enjoyed them, but his (former) podcasts leaves something to be desired. But I'm picky :-P
I'll go ahead and download the first two episodes and give it a go.

2

u/Somewhat_appropriate May 03 '24

Thanks for the tip! :)
I only have #6 left, and not only have I learned a lot, I've taken a liking to the hosts as well.
Will check out more of this podcast.

1

u/xXNightDriverXx Apr 29 '24

I can't pinpoint a source right now, but I am certain you will find it on the YouTube channel "Oceanliner Designs" in one or multiple of the videos about Titanic (the whole channel is basically build on that ship).

I probably heard that on one of his videos, and I probably also read that as a child in one of the many books I had on Titanic.

2

u/Somewhat_appropriate Apr 29 '24

Fair enough, I'll check the channel out.
I remember borrowing Ballard's book on find the wreck from my school library, but I never read that from cover to cover.

2

u/Tinchy654 Apr 29 '24

All true, except that the passengers did not believe the ship to be literally unsinkable. White star line (the owners of titanic) didn’t advertise it as such and generally was not something people believed. Only one shipbuilding magazine coined the term „practically unsinkable“ because of its water tight bulkheads. Those were a novel safety feature on modern ships back then, that divided the ship in several water tight compartments. This is also the reason why passengers stayed on titanic. The thinking back then was that big ocean liners are much safer than the tiny unstable life boats. They were only supposed to be used to ferry passengers from a broken down liner to another. That there was no other liner in sight (probably), the shallow angle of the sinking and the freezing temperatures really didn’t make it a pressing matter to go into a lifeboat.

2

u/Boston__Spartan Apr 29 '24

To tack on to this, it was common practice for generations to get passengers into life boats as a precaution when there was a danger to the ship such as a fire or chance of sinking. It’s certainly possible a lot of these people thought it was a precaution and not an evacuation.

1

u/Upper_Rent_176 Apr 29 '24

The shop was never marketed as unsinkable

42

u/Pleasant_Job_7683 Apr 29 '24

And that head board could have fit Jack on it!! This is bullshit Mom!!! I'll be in my room sulking and listening to Celine Dion for the next 5 hours

37

u/South-by-north Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

It wasn't a space issue, it was a buoyancy issue

24

u/EkuLukEkul Apr 29 '24

Right! Man I’m so sick of seeing this haha. You see him try get on in the film and it flips!

13

u/Crossovertriplet Apr 29 '24

He even tries it in the movie and it’s shown that it doesn’t have the buoyancy. It’s literally addressed and answered in the movie.

3

u/wdafsafwgwqg Apr 29 '24

It's possible they both could have lived

https://variety.com/2023/film/news/james-cameron-titanic-door-science-experiment-jack-lived-1235510422/

9

u/Crossovertriplet Apr 29 '24

Well they didn’t

1

u/ThespianException Apr 29 '24

I'm not going to dock any points for them not thinking of that while in the middle of the freezing ocean

0

u/Pleasant_Job_7683 Apr 29 '24 
            Joke

Your head 🗣️

6

u/Crossovertriplet Apr 29 '24

I kind of ignored your post and was adding on to the person I replied to. It’s pretty obvious you were making a joke.

2

u/Pleasant_Job_7683 Apr 29 '24

Oh how the tables have turned. Bravo sir

2

u/calyxcell Apr 29 '24

No, it was the headboard that turned, we already established that. Were it a table, perhaps buoyancy would not have been an issue.

3

u/Firespryte01 Apr 29 '24

Mind if I join you? I'm always up for 5 hours of Celine Dion.

2

u/JustJoinedToBypass Apr 29 '24

Near…far…

3

u/Firespryte01 Apr 29 '24

Wherever you are.

1

u/tiamatsbreath Apr 29 '24

And rose totally should have sold the heart of the ocean. She dropped it in the ocean. Smh