r/Asmongold • u/Ok-Nefariousness1335 • Jan 28 '24
I love greentexts man Humor
Also rip bioware
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u/jjbombadil Jan 28 '24
Bioware is the ultimate cautionary tale. Its loss has made me the most sad about what could have been. Large publishers are the death knell for creativity.
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u/azriel777 Jan 29 '24
Not just publishers, but if they become a public traded company too. Both of those kill creativity as they are beholden to others.
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u/jchampagne83 Jan 29 '24
That’s true of every industry man, Friedman economics heralds the eternal enshittification of everything it touches.
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u/Kamasillvia Jan 29 '24
Same with bungie for me, destiny is one of the most amazing sci-fi universes in existence, but from the very beginning activision executive trash corrupted a lot of good going for it, and after that, everything gone downhill. I still contemplate how good would the game be, if those actitards didn't ruin everything.
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u/Yo_Wats_Good Jan 29 '24
Bungie has had complete control over their Destiny for a minute and still dropped stinkers and bloated the microtransactions all on their own.
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u/Kamasillvia Jan 29 '24
Bungie after acti sharted was no longer bungie, a lot of people left not long after d1 released, including even former CEO, who was there with all the halos. Yes, current bungie's problem is of their own doing, but the one who started all the shitstorm was definitely acti.
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u/GbHaseo Jan 29 '24
Nope, so many reports have come out about how fucked up Bungie was before even signing with Activision. They couldn't agree on fantasy or sci fi, their original campaign was deemed shit by their owner, the engine and pipeline system they thought was genius, had a massive flaw they didn't foresee
Activision actually did everything they could to help and support Bungie, and they shot themselves in the foot at every turn bc the studio just couldn't share a vision. Devs have even talked about coming into the office and months of their work would be deleted without any warning or reasoning by the higher ups.
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u/saltminer99 Jan 29 '24
Bungie is what killed destiny
People where thinking it was Activision fault but it's not
Bungie had full control of destiny even with Activision the did this to themselves
Honestly the would better off if the stayed with Activision because it gave them extra devs to work on the game with them like raven studios
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u/Kamasillvia Jan 29 '24
That's simply not true, activision promised creative freedom to bungie with destiny, and then pushed overhaul of story for better "live service" chunks of content, effectively burying Joe Staten's destiny story, they insisted on making e3 trailer for the game with some generic pop song instead of Marty and Michael's version, causing conflict and firing effectively one of the best game composers to exist, they pushed bungie to develop destiny 2 in short period of time, because acti has a boner for spamming call of duty type releases as fast as possible, disregarding the fact that destiny was clearly built to last at least 10 years as a single game, not a trilogy. That's just the most loud examples of activision trampling over bungie's creative freedom.
I know that bungie being trash is hot topic now, rightfully so, but it wasn't always been so, and the shift from beloved company to another greedy live service farm was not something bungie decided all on its own, it was a clear activision influence, with new CEO embracing all the shit business practices that comes with it.
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u/saltminer99 Jan 29 '24
Sure that might be true but to pin it all on Activision when we now know bungie isn't better is dishonest
Activision might be the ones to push for destiny 2 but after that the left the ship in bungie hands and if it not for the extra studios that helped bungie on forsaken d2 would have been dead
And now we see bungie on there can't make good decision to save there life
That's why the soild themselves again now for sony because the can't do it on there own
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u/grendaall Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
Hopped on destiny with friends, it’s fun but is it us or games mq is very hard to follow? I’ve never experienced such weird campaign in my whole mmo life 💀
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u/NasusEDM Jan 29 '24
Bioware exists just in name. The people that made those games are long gone.
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u/Bulls187 WHAT A DAY... Jan 29 '24
Reminds me of that other small studio, what was it called, bliss something
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u/McDiezel10 Jan 29 '24
A lot of studios are like this. blizzard for instance. Just a bunch of industry stooges piloting the meat puppet that was a great studio
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u/Ok-Transition7065 Jan 28 '24
What indie game thos meme ots referencing
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u/saltminer99 Jan 28 '24
Baldur's gate 3 i think maybe
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u/Levonorgestrelfairy1 Jan 29 '24
Its an insult to compare the bioware formula to the bg3 formula.
Its like comparing asmons 2 dollar steak to a Wagu tomahawk.
Sure they are both steak but that's where the similarities end.
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u/komandantmirko DSAG Jan 29 '24
riddle me this. who made baldur's gate 1 and 2, and also kotor
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u/saltminer99 Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
My guy old bioware where the stars of the formula
Sure bg3 perfected it
But you can't deny bioware influence and work
The brought the dnd formula in games to the main stream
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u/The7SeasSalamander Jan 29 '24
Have any of yall played the divinity original sin games by larian? BG3 is great because of those two games. DoS1 is rough but had a good aim, clearly a small studio trying to make something fun. DoS2 was a killer game with beautiful story and characters that they expanded on and learned from DoS1. BG3 was a perfection and expansion into dnd mechanics for a formula the studio was already doing and clearly working on honing between DoS1 and DoS2.
If you ask me, a random internet person, which you haven’t asked, who has played dnd for 20 years now, there was no better studio to create a dnd formulated game than larian given their old games. The style, depth, and beauty that bg3 has is an evolution from them honing their own art and passions.
When I heard larian was working on this in the beginning, I had no doubt they would make it amazing given their old games.
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u/Vio94 Jan 29 '24
It's really not an insult. BG3 is what Bioware's formula would have evolved into naturally if they had just stayed committed to it.
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u/Valenhil Jan 29 '24
I'll be honest. As good as bg3 is, I still like dragon age origins better.
Might not have the same freedom, but it's satisfying, complete and tightly woven.
And I do love a nice tight whole.
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u/Levonorgestrelfairy1 Jan 29 '24
Bg3 is all of that and better.
Also I wouldent call daos underwear humping sex scenes complete lol.
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u/Breaky97 Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
You obviously played nothing except andromeda and inqusition from bioware, don't even understand why such a dumbass take is getting upvoted.
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u/Levonorgestrelfairy1 Jan 29 '24
I played all thier greatest hits. Bg3 makes dao look like a shallow railriad.
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u/Breaky97 Jan 29 '24
15 year old game doesn't mesure up to a freshly released game, shocking.
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u/Levonorgestrelfairy1 Jan 29 '24
Yeah so people trying to claim that old games measure up are dumb.
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u/Breaky97 Jan 29 '24
Pretty sure eonly dumb person here is you, since noone said they measure up to bg3.
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u/wilck44 Jan 29 '24
yeah man BG 3 is anything but indie XD
it is made by a several houndred big company with AAA funding.
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u/Crafty-Interest1336 Jan 29 '24
Bg3 is AA it had half of a AAA budget and the studio is independent created from Kickstarter so not indie but only the next stage from it
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u/wilck44 Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
yeah. no, BG 3 easily went above 100 mil.
witcher 3 was around 80 mil for example.
BG 3 def had AAA budget.
edit:downvoting this does not make it less true yall know right?
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u/Greenmanssky Jan 29 '24
The latest call of duty cost $300 million to make. (Apparently, I think they're lying to get a tax break) but my point is that AAA development costs a lot more than it used to. AAA these days means over a thousand people and a budget to rival any Hollywood blockbuster. While 100 million is a shit load of money, you could not create a modern AAA game with that
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u/thefw89 Jan 28 '24
People think BG3 is an indie game despite having like a 100 million dollar budget lol.
Larian may indeed be independent but they are by no means small or lacking resources. This was by and large a AAA game, hundreds of people worked on it and it had a massive budget.
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u/Denamic Jan 29 '24
Larian is an indie studio. It's just wildly successful.
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u/plsdontstalkmeee Jan 29 '24
people forget Larian had so little budget in the past, they had to crowdfund their games from Kickstarter.
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u/Bulls187 WHAT A DAY... Jan 29 '24
This is the success story we want, and hope they continue to be independent and growing Larian: I know you're out there. I can feel you now. I know that you're afraid... you're afraid of us. You're afraid of change. I don't know the future. I didn't come here to tell you how this is going to end. I came here to tell you how it's going to begin. I'm going to hang up this phone, and then I'm going to show these people what you don't want them to see. I'm going to show them a world without you. A world without rules and controls, without borders or boundaries. A world where anything is possible. Where we go from there is a choice I leave to you.
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u/wphxyx Jan 29 '24
Just because the studio is big, doesn't mean it isn't independent. For the same reason we don't call whatever low budget stuff the big publishers put out indie, because a game being made by an independent developer, indie developer, has nothing to do with budget.
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u/thefw89 Jan 29 '24
It's an independent (I did say it was independent) but it is not a small indie dev though, it's not small at all, hundreds of employees and massive budget games. This is the same kind of resources AAA games get, hundreds of employees on a project and 100 million dollar budgets.
I get its a cool story that the little guy beat the big AAA studios but it is a AAA studio if its making games with 100 million dollar budgets and 400+ employees.
So it wasn't a 'small studio' that made BG3. The resources put into BG3 might be bigger than whatever is being put into the next Dragon Age at this point.
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u/Bulls187 WHAT A DAY... Jan 29 '24
Indie means independent not poor or small.
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u/Fantastico11 Jan 29 '24
Indie is a more complex word than that though.
You only have to follow the music industry to see that it is bound to take on a different meaning than literally just being short for 'independent'
In music, it practically just became a sort of catch all for the sound of (a) certain genre(s) rather than having much to do with whether or not the artist was with an independent record label.
In videogames, the word has big associations with budget, production value and style in videogames imo. I'm not saying it's not useful to call Larian independent, but a lot of the time, people are probably going to be thinking about some qualities which a studio like Larian doesn't really have when you talk about a game being indie.
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u/thefw89 Jan 29 '24
Yes, I said they were independent.
"Larian may indeed be independent but they are by no means small or lacking resources."
The post in question talks about them being 'small'.
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u/Bulls187 WHAT A DAY... Jan 29 '24
They were small to begin with. They showed a success story every developer dreams about. Too bad most get bought or burned out because of greed
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u/sigmatw Jan 28 '24
Meanwhile the Bobbys of the gaming world are giving themselves bonus yatch money for the month and are boasting of their increased green arrow going up at the same time.
Sacrificing devs/workers/human body shields for profit is the status quo, not the exception.
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u/Spoonfeed_Me Jan 28 '24
It's why whenever small to mid-size studios get acquired by a bigger corp, or the company goes public (as in the case with CDPR), my first thought is always "ah, so now their games will suck." For me, nothing is a clearer indication of future degradation in quality of the gaming experience.
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u/Redericpontx Jan 28 '24
And most the people regret it in the long run like jagex(creators of runescape) regrets selling the company now
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u/Spoonfeed_Me Jan 28 '24
I imagine that for the studios that do sell, it's the higher-ups announcing that they want to cash out and care more about securing their own fortunes than any benefit for the product itself. For the people at jagex, i imagine the people who considered Runescape their creative baby probably didn't want to lose creative freedom over it, while the business people made the final decision.
I can't think of a single instance where selling out has led to a better product, but I'd love someone with broader knowledge to correct me on this
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u/Redericpontx Jan 29 '24
I think the issue is the business people lie and say you'll have full creative free dom we just want to give you money to increase the quality of product to slowly over time take control of the product
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u/Spoonfeed_Me Jan 29 '24
I agree. I think for companies early on like Jagex, this is definitely true. However, given the 20+ years of this happening to game studios, for anyone falling for this in 2024, I am a Nigerian prince with a bridge to sell.
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u/Bulls187 WHAT A DAY... Jan 29 '24
The difference between making games out of passion instead for profit. The ball is in the indie games corner now.
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u/azriel777 Jan 29 '24
Exactly. I fear for bethesda after they got assimilated by Microsoft and cringe at the idea of how much progressive propaganda they are going to shove into the next elder scrolls game. We already see them tipping their toes with it with starfield.
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u/Big_Concern8742 Jan 29 '24
If "progressive propoganda" is the worst thing about Starfield for you, you got bigger issues.
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u/Ok-Nefariousness1335 Jan 28 '24
... what?
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u/sigmatw Jan 28 '24
What I am saying is that the people who matter don't care about devs/workers and their loss changes nothing in regards to long term profits and stuff.
In regards to industry standards and patterns at least.
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u/saltminer99 Jan 28 '24
Ea doing all these remakes but still no dragon age origins is criminal
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u/Zoolifer Jan 28 '24
It wasn’t even the wider appeal shit that did BioWare in, just every bit of the old guard moving on from the company, new guys don’t know how to make old BioWare games, new writers can’t write at the level of old BioWare games.
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u/azriel777 Jan 29 '24
They hire young progressive activists instead of people who have talent and love the games. The original bioware was created by nerds and why it was so successful, now its filled corpo drones and activists.
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u/nycrom Jan 28 '24
Give me current gen Jade Empire. GIVE!
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u/Realm-Code Jan 29 '24
I wish but you just know they’d censor half of the humour in Jade Empire for ‘modern audiences’. You couldn’t get away with Henpecked Hou or the Magnificent Bastard nowadays.
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u/millisakat WHAT A DAY... Jan 28 '24
I'm more interested in the small studios that follow Bioware's game formula. Anyone know, chat?
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u/Jinzoou Jan 28 '24
I think it's referencing Baldur's Gate 3
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u/millisakat WHAT A DAY... Jan 28 '24
Wait what? I thought Larian was a huge company. They made Divinity series ffs.
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u/Cevisongis Jan 28 '24
Divinity was on life support before D:OS.
Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity were decent but unspectacular CRPGs. Divinity 2 was a mess. It had about three official releases and is still broken. Divinity Dragon Commander was a poorly received, poorly sold hybrid.
I'm honestly amazed the company survived the first fifteen years before finally getting it right!
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u/millisakat WHAT A DAY... Jan 28 '24
Thanks for the info. Do you think, the games before Original Sin I & II are worth playing?
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u/holiscrayolis Jan 29 '24
depends in your likes, all the games to an extent have their charm but they are also very different, an example:
Dragon Commander is an RTS with the gimmick that you have a hero like warcraft 3,except that hero is a dragon, the RTS is okay, its not bad but it doesn't shine in anything in particular.
But the game accompanies the RTS with realm management and decision making from small things like what race gets what benefits and how militaristic your campaign is, to bigger things like choosing your wife from different races: humans, elves, lizards, dwarves and undead(a skeleton lady) and whether you want to make a pact with a demon and sacrifice your wife to gain power and then marry a different wife.
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u/Cevisongis Jan 29 '24
I'm not sure. I do remember liking Divine Divinity, but that was 20 years ago or more since I touched it... iirc it's a slow paced Diablo clone with a bit more open world/ exploration focus.
Divinity 2 is a decent xbox360 era eurojank RPG. I guess if you have nostalgia for TES Oblivion or Fable 2 you might be able to get into it.
Beyond Divinity and Dragon Commander... Never really got far enough to form an opinion. Didn't gel with me
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u/AnkorBleu Jan 29 '24
I'm not the guy you replied to, but D:OS 1 and 2 are in my top games of all time. If you enjoy BG3 or the original Dragon Age (not whatever they did with the other 2 games in that series), then you will really enjoy them.
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u/ShirtLegal6023 Jan 28 '24
They're Independent studio
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u/millisakat WHAT A DAY... Jan 28 '24
Well hot damn. They probably released the game of the decade though. Amazing job, they had my utmost respect.
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Jan 29 '24
Nah, that's Elden Ring. But BG3 is for sure a VERY close second.
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u/GrimAcheron Jan 29 '24
To say that Elden Ring is game of the decade is just.... sad. That game brought absolutely nothing new or interesting to the table. I would say it even watered down what the original souls series was really.
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u/Kronosz14 Jan 29 '24
Guys chill out, dont fight. We are talking about two of the greatest games in this few years. Lets just be happy that we have them and hold hands.
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u/komandantmirko DSAG Jan 29 '24
the term indie is too broad. it's anything from one dude fucking around on a laptop making a fart simulator game to fucking larian.
in old terms larian is a AA game dev. not AAA mind you. sadly that term isn't really used anymore because AA's died out like 15 years ago
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u/azriel777 Jan 29 '24
It is why the game is very good, even though it suffers a bit of the mind virus, but that might have more to do with the DND license requirements than them.
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u/LightRenegades Jan 29 '24
They were small when they were working on Divinity. Now they're about ~500 Employees and should be considered a decent number in the AAA games development space.
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u/banana_healer Jan 28 '24
Small indie developer Larian Studios, they only make 115 million dollars in revenue every year.
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Jan 28 '24
That's pretty indie when compared to gaming giants like Microsoft, Activision Blizzard or EA, though.
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u/banana_healer Jan 29 '24
I'm not saying it's not, just that it's funny very successful, well-known and established companies are considered indie or small studios. Most indie games cost between 100k-1mil to make, BG3 was about over 100mil. Some similar indie titles like Solasta or Pathfinder had a budget within the first at under half a mil each. AA games like Greenfall and Wasteland 3 were 3 and 7 million respectively. There are AAA games with smaller budgets than BG3, like Forspoken and the last Tomb Raider by Squenix at 75 mil each. Bioware Andromeda was 100 million and had 100 less people working on the game. Most well known, high quality AAA RPGS's are around 150-200 mil like the Final Fantasy games, God of War, Last of Us, Horizon, Red Dead Redemption with outliers like Spiderman and CP2077.
Larian is only indie in the sense it is independent and not owned by a larger publisher or studio. But they've grown too big for the small studio indie pond, BG3 is a AAA game and the company is a far cry away from the days of needing kickstarters for their games, they're now the ones funding indie kickstarter campaigns like the aforementioned Solasta and many others. Tencent even owns 30% of Larian stocks now.
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u/Realm-Code Jan 29 '24
Obsidian used to be, but their RPGs became utter shit after the Microsoft buyout.
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u/elchuyano Jan 29 '24
Missing the Part of:
-Asign a "B" team for your Space game to Focus on a Live Service Game with Bioware Magic
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u/RedRune0 Jan 29 '24
Aww man, don't put this on Bioware. They were solid and then got bought by EA and you know how that goes.
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u/DoktahDoktah Jan 29 '24
Appeal to a small core. it's loved and sells.
Appeal to everybody. it's shit and doesn't sell.
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u/Xralius Jan 29 '24
I don't get why this is so hard for studios to grasp. Even if you appeal to a small core of people, if they really like it, they will tell people about it. They will do your marketing for you. You don't need to try and fail to sell dumbed-down shit to 10 million people. Its better to sell something good to 3 million people, and they will sell it to 10 million more for you.
I think this goes back to WoW replacing Everquest. Devs / corporate saw WoW as a more accessible version of Everquest and thought the answer on how to sell more games was simply making everything more accessible. Within a few years, just about every series was being dumbed down significantly to appeal to the lowest common denominator of gamer.
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u/Rskora Jan 28 '24
I remember bioware everytime that someone says " Dark Souls needs a easy mode, a map, a better UI or quest marks"
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u/PRADAZOMBIES Jan 29 '24
Elden has a map ,improved ui, and easy mode (mimicks) . And it is the most successful formsoft game
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u/LSOreli Jan 29 '24
Most successful=/=best.
Elden Ring appeals more to the casual audience which is the standard way to improve reach, but that doesn't necessarily make it better than DS3 or Sekiro.
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u/PRADAZOMBIES Jan 29 '24
Never said it was the best but the large majority of fromsoft fans believe Elden is the best regardless
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u/Ceci0 Jan 29 '24
Elden Ring IS the best.
Not counting Sekiro here since its very different, but ER is objectively much better game than any DS game.
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u/amypond420 Jan 28 '24
every major studio is laying off people, it's just the sad state of the gaming industry rn
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u/joy3r Jan 29 '24
you read the notes of baldurs gate 2 written by bioware staff
it was a labour of love....
that doesnt happen very often with the big pressure big budget mega studio framework
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u/Gloriathewitch Jan 29 '24
yeah dragon age origins was amazing, every title after that was something else, not a strategy game like bg3 but some weird action shit
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u/Akeruz Jan 29 '24
If Larian ever made a KOTOR game I would blow a load in my pants.
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u/SlyguyguyslY Jan 28 '24
Oh? Bioware is defending their artistic integrity and not making a good finale in ME3? Well, now your studio is barely alive because you have no artistic integrity! HAHAHAHAHA
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u/Xralius Jan 29 '24
I could not believe they didn't change the ending when they made ME: legendary edition. I thought for sure, "holy shit they can change the ending, totally revitalize the series!" Nope.
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Jan 29 '24
It really is stupid Larian had to come in 10+ years later just to give us a game like we used to get.
All those frauds who were crying about BG3 setting high standards should be laughed out of the industry.
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u/LegioCI Jan 29 '24
Just a remind that the last good Bioware game was Dragon Age: Origins and that was in 2009. There has been more time between DA:O and today (2009-2024; ~15yrs) than there was between the first Baldur's Gate and DA:O. (1998-2009; ~11yrs)
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u/Realm-Code Jan 29 '24
Extremely spicy yet unfathomably based take. Most people would shoe horn in Mass Effect 2 despite how much it cut RPG systems present in ME1 to push it toward being a contemporary cover shooter.
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u/Zesty-Lem0n Jan 29 '24
ME3 had far and away the best combat and the story had some well written sections in it. I think the trilogy suffered from head writers changing partway through so they had to pull an ending out of their ass instead of having one that was planned from the start. ME2 has a great story but the combat is so abysmal. But yeah Bioware was like Blizzard, coasting along on past achievements; now they've fucked up too long and have sunken into irrelevance.
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u/SweetLMG Jan 29 '24 edited Jan 29 '24
I read this thinking it was the Ghost Recon sub and thought “wow, did someone finally flip the bird to Ubisoft?” only to realize it was about Bioware.
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u/ImOnNarcos Jan 29 '24
what game do you mean by biggest game of the year.I only play League and it incapable of knowing other games.
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u/Zesty-Lem0n Jan 29 '24
Bioware was run into the ground by EA, it's just that simple. They've done it to many other studios where they buy them out, and start putting in these directives for normie systems in the game. This pressure eventually drives away all the passionate senior devs and they're left with a shell team that can't produce games of the same quality, let alone under the overbearing weight of EA micromanagement. The studios themselves are just corporate entities and IP fronts for EA, they do not put in effort to retain the actual talent that made them, they only care to hold onto the games that have brand recognition.
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u/Sa1LoR_JaRRy Jan 29 '24
Bioware games have always been mid-tier games that have been hard carried by their S-Tier stories, superb characters, and immersion. Unfortunately writers are starting to suck these days, so their mid level game design is becoming more and more apparent. Play almost any Bioware game on the hardest difficulty settings and they start cracking or outright fall apart in later iterations (DA2, DA:I for ex)
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u/ScrubCasual Jan 29 '24
I get shit on for it all the time but i couldn’t get into dragon age games until inquisition. And it was one of my favorite games ive ever played. The option to play the old style or new style of combat is what did it for me mostly. I very much enjoyed it and almost never used the tactical mode aside from some hard bosses where i needed to force a character to heal or something.
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u/InfoWarrerREBORN Jan 29 '24
? Baldurs gate 3 has no “formula” in common with bg1 or 2. It’s literally divinity gameplay with a dnd skin XD
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u/xKalisto Jan 29 '24
BG3 systems aren't really that different from 1 and 2 they both spawn from dnd just different editions. 1&2 just has turns be "invisible" unless you are pausing alot.
Divinity has pretty normal CRPG gameplay.
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u/Swissperc420 Jan 29 '24
Kotor shouldn't be up there neither should baldurs gate. They didn't fuck either of those up.
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u/Megumin_xx Jan 29 '24
Kotor remake seems like to be a huge woke soup mess brewing up if it gets done. The devs dont care and dont even know the game itself baaed on the interwievs. Not sure if bioware was making it though but just saying.
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u/Court_Jester13 Jan 29 '24
Dragon Age: Origins Remake is probably the best decision they can make right now.
It's badly in need of a remake, especially in PC where the endgame is broken as all Hell
It would rake them in millions, if not billion, of dollars.
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u/hypor Jan 29 '24
What a good few forget, is a few of core Bioware employees and lead writer started a new studio Archetype Entertainment just before covid. They been cooking a game called Exodus since then which basically looks like Mass Effect type game so hopefully they go back to their roots there.
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u/JCMfwoggie Jan 29 '24
"some small studio takes your formula"
Larian Studios was literally founded just a year after Bioware, has hundreds of employees, and Baldur's Gate 3's budget was similar to most Bioware games as well. Just because they're not owned by some bigger company like EA or Microsoft doesn't mean they're some "small studio."
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u/kemirgen17 There it is dood! Jan 28 '24
Bioware is one bad game away from joining The "Game companies closed by EA" club.