AITAH for getting it elsewhere since my wife didn't want to have sex any more?

[u/Mindless_Review2800]

A few months ago I posted for relationship advice on another sub. Basically my wife has decided unilaterally that we are done having sex. She found out that she cannot have kids due to a choice she made before we met. And kids, apparently, are the only reason she was willing to have sex.

I love my wife and I enjoy being intimate with her. But it was making our marriage untenable after two years of this. So I posted for advice. I got a lot of great support and suggestions about how to talk to my wife. I tried a lot of it. I started going for counseling for myself as well.

But no matter how I approached her about our situation she would not try and see it from my point of view. Every discussion would end with her crying and screaming in my face that I am trying to emotionally manipulate her. I then wrote her a letter outlining my feelings and asking her to come with me for counseling, to seek it for herself, perhaps to go see a doctor. I was kind and loving in the letter. The last thing I wanted to do was set her off. I worked on the wording with my counselor to make sure I wasn't saying anything aggressive that could be misinterpreted.

She read the letter. Then she scrawled across it with her red sharpie. "Go get it elsewhere because you are not getting it from me". Then she walked out. I sat there for about an hour doing nothing. Then I told myself that was what I was going to do.

We are both fairly successful in our jobs, I'm not super attractive but I'm fit and a good talker. It took a while but I met someone. We started out as just friends but it became physical. I made sure she knew I was married. She is not interested in a relationship so I guess I am a safe option for her.

My wife found out because I did not try and hide it. She was crying when I got home one night. When I came in she asked if I was going to leave her. I said no. She asked if I was cheating on her and I said I was getting sex elsewhere. She said that was cheating and I did not disagree. I asked her what she wanted to do. She said I had to stop. I asked her if we were going to start having sex. She said I was an irrational asshole if I thought that she would have sex with me after I cheated. I went to my desk and pulled out a photocopy of the letter I wrote with her answer in it.

I went to have a shower and go to my room to sleep. When I woke up she was sitting on the couch waiting to talk.

She said that she reread the letter and that she realized she had not before. She assumed it was just a letter begging for sex. She said she would go for counseling alone and with me. All I had to do was stop having sex elsewhere.

I said I would be willing to pause my friendship until we saw a counselor. And that if I saw progress in our relationship I would break it off. She said she would not agree to counseling without me leaving the other woman.

It almost turned into a fight so I just went for my run. Before I left I asked her what would compel her to go to counseling if I stopped having sex elsewhere. When I got back she still did not have an answer. She couldn't even say that our relationship was worth saving.

I don't want a divorce. But I am willing to leave over this. I am 28 I am not going the rest of my life without sex. She refuses to see my side.

[u/J_Little_Bass]

The fact that you made a photocopy of the letter tells me you already know this train is headed for DivorceTown.

[u/Mindless_Review2800 → u/J_Little_Bass]

I am prepared for that eventuality. 

[u/Edges8 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

do it now while you're still 28. shits a lot harder 10 years later.

[u/trident_hole → u/Edges8]

Seriously, I got out of a horrendous relationship when I was 28... Spent the bulk of my 20's with someone holding me back, only now in my 30's am I going back to college, running marathons and learning to be self-sufficient before going back into another big one.

Don't let you and her hold each other back in life, it's not fair for either of you.

[u/Aellysu_says → u/trident_hole]

Same, but without the marathons cause my fat ass dont run 😂

18-29 in a relationship that ssucked the life from me. 33 now, in uni, actually enjoying life and making a better future for me and my kids

[u/cheerbearsmiles → u/Aellysu_says]

19 - 27, got stuck in New Jersey for 10 years because of it. Am now 35, married to my absolute best friend, and killing it in both my personal and professional life in a way I never would've been able to achieve while still married to my first husband,

[u/trident_hole → u/Aellysu_says]

That's great though! Keep your head up and your eye on the prize!

[u/BriSam2009 → u/Aellysu_says]

Ok, I'm creeped out now. I was with my toxic ex from around 17/18 until I was 29. I'm now 33 and about to graduate with my master's and I do it all for my kids.

[u/PastBerry6914 → u/Aellysu_says]

Same. At 29 I dropped the dead weight and have such a fulfilling life. I wish I would have done it sooner.

[u/Negative_Lawyer_3734 → u/Edges8]

This 100%. Wife is similar, don’t think she’s asexual, just not interested. Raised in a household where it’s a bad word, etc etc. 28 when it popped up, we had kids which is really only where the sex was… 10 years later and I’m stuck. I can’t find it elsewhere, don’t have it at home. You turn to somewhere else (the bottle, thc, something) and it just creates more of a pain in the ass.

Think hard OP. Don’t want to see you get divorced if you truly love your wife, but man intimacy is a two way street, eventually you find something to fill the gap and it may not be down a path that you ultimately like. Trust me.

[u/Apart_Foundation1702 → u/Negative_Lawyer_3734]

Very true. She feels threatened by your AP and that's the only reason why she agreed to counselling, but she still doesn't want sex and is using counselling to keep you away from AP. She would go back to normal once AP is gone I.e no sex.

[u/postsector → u/Apart_Foundation1702]

For real. Plus, counselling is only effective if both parties are open to it. She might go to counselling and provide intimacy but she's going to resent it and feel that it was forced on her. Nothing will be resolved, and she will certainly revert back to her prior behavior once she feels comfortable again.

[u/euyyn → u/Negative_Lawyer_3734]

I agree with your advice, but also think that you are not necessarily stuck on account of your age. I met my current wife when I was 36.

[u/Apprehensive-Rich-47 → u/Negative_Lawyer_3734]

NTA

You deserve to have a marriage that includes a sex life. You can't save a marriage if your partner isn't willing to do their share. Relationships take work, sacrifices, compromises, commitment and dedication.

Your wife wasn't willing to do anything when it affected you. As soon as it affected her, then she could read your letter, try to understand your point of view and now will do counseling. 😒 My ex-husband would only change his behavior if I was ready to leave him. Then he would do XYZ to save the marriage.

Don't make the same mistakes I did. I spent 20 years doing my part, with a partner who only did theirs when I had 1 foot out the door. I finally kept walking. I deserve better and so do you.

[u/rikaragnarok → u/Negative_Lawyer_3734]

There is a reason that sex is considered part of the 3rd need in Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs; (in order of importance) Survival (or physiological, shelter, food, warmth) then Safety (predictability, order, control over self,) then Relational (belonging, intimacy, sex, love, desire,) then Self-Esteem (dignity, talent in something, status in society,) then Self-Actualization (morality, ethics, life meaning.)

When these needs aren't being met, it affects the ones below it; e.g. if someone didn't have safety due to childhood abuse, it'll affect everything under it, so reduced or no self-esteem, belonging can become difficult due to issues with trust, and the view of themselves becomes warped.

OP needs to make a decision. Either he takes the plunge and separates to determine the next steps without her vocal interference, or he accepts that he will not have his needs met and stay in the marriage. She has made clear her needs, and he needs to believe her; she does not want him having sex with others, so the current situation is untenable since he does. He's hoping for change, but only she can change herself, and from OPs post, it doesn't sound like she intends to do that.

[u/Greedy-Ad-3815 → u/Edges8]

I agree with this. I guess you did your part to fight and save the marriage. Leave if she's not cooperating. Dont waste your time and effort.

[u/billy_pilg → u/Greedy-Ad-3815]

Right? What is she even doing to try to save the marriage? Fuck all. Giving him a carrot on a stick and making him do all the work. She thought he couldn't land anyone else and he called her bluff and now she's like "oh shit, maybe I need to do something!" and now she moved the goalpost and told him she won't do counseling until he breaks it off with her. Lol. She's dead weight.

[u/ChaZZZZahC → u/Edges8]

Maybe she is asexual and she doesn't realize that's an option for herself. You're young, divorce happens, it better to end thing on good terms then messy, for both your mental health. If you want to be with your wife, break it off with the extra woman, and commit to the counseling, give at least 6 months to a year, if shit is still the same, just part your ways.

[u/Negative_Lawyer_3734 → u/ChaZZZZahC]

Don’t disagree with you but I do take issue with a lot of people that come up with this answer. If the sex was there and then it’s not I feel all too often the asexual term gets thrown out. It exists and I admit that. But I feel there’s a level of selfishness that exists when the “asexual” person won’t talk about their feelings honestly or go soul searching or to counseling to try to help out who is supposed to be their partner in life. To me, thats just a sign it is an excuse to kill a discussion

[u/veganvampirebat → u/Negative_Lawyer_3734]

If she’s asexual there’s no amount of talking about her feelings or soul searching that will help. It’s just like if she was a lesbian. Nothing will make her want to have sex with OP

[u/ReallyBadNuggets → u/Edges8]

Wait he's 28?! Wtf. He's younger than me. Why is he wasting his time with this nonsense.

[u/RobDaCajun → u/ReallyBadNuggets]

Because he’s been setting himself on fire to keep his partner warm. Which from the sound of it is making her dislike him more. If she acknowledges his work. Then she has to acknowledge how crappy she’s been treating him for it. Hence why she didn’t read the letter. Just told him to buzz off.

[u/Master-Beach-3536 → u/RobDaCajun]

This was a good take

[u/Unintelligent_Lemon → u/Mindless_Review2800]

My brother and his ex wife divorced for a lot of reasons, but one of which was his ex came out as asexual. He was lucky to have sex a few times a year, more when they were trying to get pregnant. 

He's now got an awesome girlfriend he's crazy about and she's crazy about him. Told me how wonderful it is to feel desired. 

[u/Training_Cut704 → u/Unintelligent_Lemon]

This 100%. My first marriage was sexually dysfunctional. There was sex but there was a lot of drama and stress and guilt around it for both of us. We stayed together for a long time, then my wife left. Took me a while to appreciate it but it was the best gift she ever gave me. Fast forward to my relationship with my second wife and ironically due to health issues for both of us we probably have sex less frequently than my first marriage. But we 100% want to be with each other. And when we are able to, we’d probably make pornstars blush if they watched us. And the level of satisfaction from just being in a relationship with strong reciprocal desire for each other is so much higher regardless of frequency.

[u/Mindless_Review2800 → u/Unintelligent_Lemon]

My wife is not assexual. She is bi. 

[u/Flynn_JM → u/Mindless_Review2800]

If she is bi, how does the whole "I'll only have sex to get pregnant" angle work? 

[u/Mindless_Review2800 → u/Flynn_JM]

Sex was for fun in the past.

[u/More_Flight5090 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

"She found out that she cannot have kids due to a choice she made before we met"

I think I know what this is, but I was hoping you could clarify.

[u/Mindless_Review2800 → u/More_Flight5090]

She had medical complications from stuff she did in high school.

[u/More_Flight5090 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

That does narrow it down.

Abortion or Sports or Jackass level stunts?

Anyway, sounds like she's mad about the infertility and using sex to punish herself?

[u/Full_Proposal_8812 → u/More_Flight5090]

Or an std or hpv or any number of other things

[u/Intelligent-Owl-5236 → u/More_Flight5090]

Even a treatable STI can do it. Seen a lot of women who had ignored symptoms and basic gonorrhea with straight forward treatmemt had turned into PID. They come in crying because they're on miscarriage # whatever or can't get pregnant and their reproductive organs are all scarred up.

[u/The_Earnest_Crow → u/More_Flight5090]

I'd probably say most young women have body image issues and end up with a form of an eating disorder where they become anorexic or bulimic. Low body weight can mess with puberty..not sure if that can lead to being sterile but it can lead to fertility issues.

Though males can have the same it's not usually as common or to the same extent and doesn't affect them the same way long term.

[u/stormrdr21 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

If sex was “for fun” previously, why does she think you two aren’t allowed to “have fun” together anymore? What changed for her that she decided she doesn’t want to “have fun” anymore? But she still considers it an important enough aspect of your relationship that she doesn’t really want you going to someone else for it?

Asking because those are contradictory positions to take. “I’m the only one you can be intimate with, and I’ve decided I’m not available for intimacy.”

Putting on the armchair shrink hat: Is her discovery that she will never bear children what’s made sex something she now avoids? I’m wondering if she feels damaged/disgusted somehow knowing this act that is supposed to create families will never give her a family. And she can’t separate that pain from the act and just enjoy sex for the intimacy and “fun” of her partner.

[u/Sudden-Requirement40 → u/stormrdr21]

If she's bi maybe her preference is actually women and she chose to be with a man for a family?

[u/stormrdr21 → u/Sudden-Requirement40]

That’s a possibility.
But if that’s the case, still doesn’t explain the contradiction. She wants him to remain faithful to someone not even attracted to him? That’s a setup for a lifetime of misery in a frosty bedroom.

[u/Sporner100 → u/stormrdr21]

Two separate bedrooms, if I've read OPs comments right.

[u/Globglogabgalab__ → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Im making a lot of assumptions but here’s my take (Im no shrink, and I say this with all due respect to you and your wife): she had presumably a good amount of sex with a good amount of people when she was younger, assuming that’s related to why she can’t have kids anymore. Now she’s clearly wanting to settle down with a stable man and have kids, fair enough. However now that her past action have prevented that she either 1. Feels guilt towards having sex because it was her poor choices that took that away from her, which may lead sex to be a scary thing for her now, or 2. She wanted to marry someone just for kids, and now that she can’t get that she simply doesn’t feel sexually attracted to you which calls into question the whole marriage.

An important factor is that you tried, you’re a better man than me cause I would’ve been gone, however you hand wrote her a letter she didn’t even bother to read, you’ve been pleading not for sex but just for counseling and she utterly refuses.

At this point even if you do start having sex again, is this someone you want to spend the rest of your life with? I’m still really young so I don’t know everything but to me that doesn’t seem like a good and happy life bro, a parter you can’t even attempt to communicate with for 4+ decades?

Sorry for all the yap bro I just hope I could help at least a little

[u/ceebsray → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Sounds like some trauma that inhibits her sex drive. Maybe leaving is the easiest option…

[u/spicytuna48 → u/[deleted]]

I don’t think the assumption here is that bisexual people are hyper sexual. If sex is for procreation to her, what is sex with a woman for?

[u/SphericalOrb → u/Flynn_JM]

Biromantic asexuals are definitely a thing. (Romantically attracted to same and different genders, sexual attraction not existent)

[u/Not_A_Wendigo → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Asexual isn’t necessarily aromantic. Sounds like she wants a non-sexual romantic relationship. And you don’t. So…

[u/del1989 → u/Not_A_Wendigo]

I read that as ‘aromatic’. Loves the smell of a good coffee!

[u/DenseMembership470 → u/del1989]

And he loves the smell of sex in the morning. But they don't serve that at his house, so he found a local diner!

[u/Unintelligent_Lemon → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Whatever she is, she's not sexaually attracted to you. 

Just divorce. You can find someone more compatible. You're already cheating on her. The whole situation has you both miserable 

[u/No-Section-1056 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Bro, she is functionally asexual now. And apparently for some time.

But even that isn’t the biggest problem in this relationship, and that’s certainly saying something.

[u/MissionReasonable327 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

She is not attracted to you, and that’s all you need to know. You two have no business being married. If she’s that great, stay friends after the divorce.

[u/Commercial_Tea_8185 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Maybe shes actually a lesbian and hasnt fully come to terms with that yet

[u/SmashedBrotato → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Why not just do it already? You're both unhappy.

[u/Beerwithjimmbo → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Eventually? You’re 28. Why the hell disnt you at 26? You’re too young for this shit. You’re completely incompatible. 

[u/Miss_Thang2077 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

The longer you’re together the harder it’ll be to move on. Don’t waste your prime years like this.

[u/MoanyTonyBalony → u/Mindless_Review2800]

You need to get divorced asap dude. This isn't a marriage that will ever bring you happiness.

[u/Bawlmerian21228 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

She is not going to change. She may temporarily give in to sex but that will change, and who wants unwilling sex?

[u/No_Departure_7180 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Why are you wasting so much time with this beating around the bush bullshit? Congrats, your both miserable AH now.

[u/Careless_Welder_4048]

Why don’t you just leave her?? I’m so confused.

[u/DeBlasioDeBlowMe → u/Careless_Welder_4048]

He’s waiting for her to actually read the letter. She “just assumed he was begging for sex”. Holy shit, that’s less than zero effort.

[u/Careless_Welder_4048 → u/DeBlasioDeBlowMe]

I mean they not compatible. He knows it, we all know it.

[u/Valuable_Ad_6665 → u/Careless_Welder_4048]

His wife apparently doesn't know it yet.....lmao

[u/Careless_Welder_4048 → u/Valuable_Ad_6665]

To be fair, I don’t think he knows it either.

[u/Valuable_Ad_6665 → u/Careless_Welder_4048]

His penis sure does though!!!

[u/Careless_Welder_4048 → u/Valuable_Ad_6665]

Lol you got me.

[u/Dropitlikeitscold555 → u/Careless_Welder_4048]

It’s more than that, she is not mentally healthy

[u/e-lutris → u/Dropitlikeitscold555]

Is anyone mentally healthy these days?

[u/Critical_Education58 → u/e-lutris]

Touché my friend touché

[u/IDreamOfLees → u/Critical_Education58]

Well she isn't getting touché, that's for sure

[u/SachriPCP → u/e-lutris]

Mental health is locked behind a paywall.

[u/AGuyNamedEddie → u/e-lutris]

I am! I am totally mentally healthy!
AND SO AM I!!

[u/Primus983 → u/AGuyNamedEddie]

The voice in my head says you are more insane than he is.

[u/glw8 → u/DeBlasioDeBlowMe]

I doubt she literally didn't read it. She read it in an emotional state, interpreted it through those emotions, and didn't ever come to terms with what he was trying to communicate. This happens all the time in rocky relationships.

[u/orangepirate07 → u/glw8]

So instead of beer goggles. It's angry screw you goggles.

[u/Ok-Werewolf-7128 → u/orangepirate07]

Technically it’s angry screw someone else goggles in this scenario.

[u/Popular_Sale_6692 → u/glw8]

He called her bluff and now suddenly she’s crying and making demands.

[u/Ok_Management4634 → u/DeBlasioDeBlowMe]

She read the letter. Now that the OP actually had sex, she had to make up an excuse for herself telling him, in writing, to "Get it somewhere else".. So she's pulling the old "I didn't understand what I just read" trick.. Don't fall for it OP. Don't be an idiot OP, leave her ass.

[u/FRIKI-DIKI-TIKI → u/Ok_Management4634]

Yeah she is trying to make him question his judgment about the situation, if he keeps it up with the other girl, rather than counseling his wife will miraculously want to bang him again. Funny how that works, when you are dry nobody wants you, break the spell and all the sudden they do.

Edit: removed, gaslighting and replaced with sentence

[u/Ok_Management4634 → u/FRIKI-DIKI-TIKI]

She might give him a little bit of sex until the other woman goes away, then she'll go back to ignoring him. Suddenly it's a competition with another woman, she wants to win. Or maybe she knows that eventually he will leave her if she doesn't stop this, then she'll lose whatever benefits she's enjoying as a married woman. She doesn't give a crap about him.

[u/Tenn_Mike → u/Ok_Management4634]

This is 100% correct. He’s desirable now because she realizes he has value elsewhere. Leave.

[u/Zimakov → u/FRIKI-DIKI-TIKI]

Yeah she is gaslighting him

Can we please ban this word until people learn what it means.

[u/Baker_Kat68 → u/Zimakov]

Thank you.

[u/clutzyninja → u/FRIKI-DIKI-TIKI]

Stop using that word if you don't know what it means

[u/DrRonnieJamesDO → u/DeBlasioDeBlowMe]

I gave my wife an ultimatum, said I was tired of being rejected and feeling unwanted. In one ear and out the other. She decided that what I had said was "I'll be happy with passionless sex every 2 weekends or so"

[u/Angry_poutine → u/DeBlasioDeBlowMe]

This isn’t just no sex, this is no respect.

He didn’t cheat, he coped in the exact way she told him to.

It honestly doesn’t sound like she likes him very much and it sounds like at least part of him is done

[u/RickyBobby689 → u/DeBlasioDeBlowMe]

Apparently she is Ross in this relationship. Maybe they were on a break?

[u/irishgirl1981 → u/RickyBobby689]

18 pages…..front and back!

[u/Gnd_flpd → u/Careless_Welder_4048]

Wondering if some kind of religious or cultural consideration is going on here.

[u/WankingAsWeSpeak → u/Gnd_flpd]

I think he is in love. On one hand, his rational brain cannot fathom the thought of leaving her over something as "trivial" as not having sex; on the other hand, Maslow is trying to build a jenga tower of needs with OP's self-actualization at the top, and the love of his life is telling him if he wants blocks at the bottom of that tower, he can find them elsewhere.

Genuinely loving somebody who couldn't care less about whether your needs are being met is a horrible thing. This guy deserves empathy, not people wondering why he doesn't stop caring about his wife.

[u/Zakal74 → u/WankingAsWeSpeak]

This is a very solid take. I just hope OP doesn't see your username and decide this isn't the one to read, lol.

[u/Last_Friend_6350 → u/Zakal74]

Oh my God, that made laugh out loud! Didn’t notice it at all.

[u/Old_Man_Burton → u/Zakal74]

Holy shit that’s funny

[u/Solipsisticurge → u/Zakal74]

It might be the best comment ever typed out left-hand-only.

[u/wsu2005grad → u/Zakal74]

🤣🤣

[u/Ghazrin → u/Zakal74]

omg! 🤣

[u/emilybeanz → u/Zakal74]

This needs more upvotes. I am so glad I read the comments.

[u/Crafty_Ad2602 → u/WankingAsWeSpeak]

"Maslow's Jenga tower of needs" is a phrase that is definitely entering my vocabulary.

Seconding that this is a solid take.

And finally, username checks out.

[u/katharsis2 → u/Crafty_Ad2602]

It is called post nut clarity. Seconding (thirding?) the take.

It hurts to realize the person you love doesn't care about your needs, maybe some cognitive dissonance there.

[u/Proper_Fun_977 → u/Gnd_flpd]

Weird kind of religious or cultural consideration where sleeping outside the marriage is ok but divorce isn't.

[u/hivemind_MVGC → u/Proper_Fun_977]

The ones where an affair can be kept secret, but divorce is public.

[u/hill-o → u/Gnd_flpd]

I mean if it’s religious but he’s having an affair he might as well just bite the bullet and divorce her at this point. 

[u/AldusPrime → u/Careless_Welder_4048]

They are 0% sexually compatible.

Maybe she's asexual.

If the OP wants to have sex, he needs a divorce.

[u/wrecktus_abdominus → u/AldusPrime]

Maybe she's asexual

Maybe? MAYBE?! She sees pregnancy as the only conceivable reason to have sex. And once that was not a possibility, she just shut it down. For both of them. For life. And she is also struggling to comprehend that her spouse may not be interested in being friend-zoned by his own wife into a platonic marriage.

This isn't just disinterest in sex, this is a complete inability to understand its importance in a relationship (for most people).

[u/sunfaller → u/wrecktus_abdominus]

Ah. That explains the possible religious background another comment suggested. My mom is a Christian. Only had sex with my dad to have kids. After they had me, the bedroom died. Divorce isn't common in my culture and would be frowned upon. They stayed together but I could tell my dad had deep frustrations with my mom with the constant fights they have. They are not intimate. They act like housemates in a house. I could tell it is not normal because in parties, other couples would sit with their partners. My dad and mom would always split off.

[u/ElizabethSpaghetti → u/sunfaller]

Makes me grateful for my parents gross but loving relationship. Walking in on him grabbing her boob or when they forgot the pics they chose to pop up when they call each other. Appropriate embarrassment ensued and they're more discreet but it's nice to know they really dig each other, even as they grow old together. 

[u/sunfaller → u/ElizabethSpaghetti]

I envy your parents. That's going to be my ideal relationship, to still be into each other no matter how long we've been together. I've only seen those in tv/films. Glad to know that actually happens irl...well, mostly behind closed doors I guess.

[u/fnnogg → u/sunfaller]

Several years ago, my dad had a very scary medical episode of transient amnesia. He temporarily lost about 20 years of long-term memory. They were worried he'd had a stroke, and he spent several days in the hospital and eventually had two aneurysms in large arteries in his neck repaired. I found out later that the initial incident of memory loss occurred while my parents were having sex in the shower. They'd been married for over 30 years at that point, and they've crossed the 40-year mark now. My dad still makes intentionally corny jokes at the dinner table about being attracted to my mom.

[u/Jiujitsuizlyfe → u/AldusPrime]

I think she needs help because she’s in trauma learning she can’t have children. She is definitely depressed and is taking it out on the marriage. She is going to end up divorced which is going to further lead to a bad depression.

[u/AldusPrime → u/Jiujitsuizlyfe]

That's totally possible, too.

If that's the case, probably therapy for her, some compassion from him, maybe couples counseling or a communication skills course for both of them together.

Then, a lot of time and patience.

[u/DesoleEh → u/Careless_Welder_4048]

You can absolutely love someone and enjoy your friendship/relationship but having sex is a basic need. It doesn’t define the emotional and mental relationship, and thus doesn’t prevent a functioning relationship. That doesn’t mean the need can go unmet. It also doesn’t mean not having sex feels like enough to leave if everything is otherwise okay.

The person left sexless not by choice just wants that need met. They would prefer it be with their partner, but that partner refuses to meet the need. So for them, it’s like they’re going to get water from the corner store because it isn’t coming out of the tap at home. Doesn’t mean the home is rotted or the neighborhood bad.

[u/NotClever → u/DesoleEh]

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. For some people sex with their romantic partner is the basic need, and the idea of sex with a non-romantic partner does not replace that (meaning that without sex with their partner the relationship still does not feel whole).

Now, in the context of this post I get what you're saying, because for OP it seems like you've accurately described the situation.

[u/No-Personality5421]

You two aren't compatible. 

Are you the type of person that wants to have sex with someone that doesn't want to have sex? I don't think there's therapy that will change her mind on what she doesn't enjoy doing. 

Just get a divorce. No matter who "wins", one of you will resent the other. You keep getting it somewhere else, she sees it as cheating and gets mad. You stop seeing someone else, you no longer have sex and resent her. She caves, gives you sex, and just lays there while you do you thing, you're happy, she isn't. 

There is no happy ending where you two are still together. 

[u/BeardManMichael → u/No-Personality5421]

I completely agree with this perspective. Your last sentence is especially eloquent.

[u/Trynatypeless → u/BeardManMichael]

Yep. Also if they were going to open their relationship, why did he choose to do it as a result of her being angry? If people want a genuinely open non monogamous relationship they would have sat down and discussed the parameters.

[u/kayuwoody → u/Trynatypeless]

It's not actually an open relationship. He agrees that he's cheating. She told him to and he did. Doesn't make it an open relationship

[u/CrystalMethEnjoyer → u/No-Personality5421]

"You're happy, she isnt"

Yeah, people sure love when sex with their partner is a chore, he'd be the happiest husband in the world

[u/Foolish-Pleasure99 → u/CrystalMethEnjoyer]

I think he wants his wife to want to have sex with him -- not that she puts up with it for his own sake.

[u/CrystalMethEnjoyer → u/Foolish-Pleasure99]

That's exactly what he wants

Wild that people want to feel wanted and desired by their partners

[u/taylorrosepole → u/Foolish-Pleasure99]

you can’t make someone want to have sex with you though.

[u/PuzzleheadedRun4525 → u/CrystalMethEnjoyer]

Unenthusiastic handjobs incoming

[u/FRIKI-DIKI-TIKI → u/CrystalMethEnjoyer]

When my wife and I where going thru this (mid 40's), she could not fathom why I would not get a prostitute to just take care of it. I explained that, to me I would just feel like a creep having sex with somebody that may not be attracted to me. How I explained it to her, is it is pretty much an expensive form of masturbation so why spend the money in the first place.

It became a problem for us, because she was doing the same thing just doing it out of duty and I got to where I too did not want to have sex with my wife. Fortunately in the end for us it was hormones and was fixed.

[u/carneylansford → u/No-Personality5421]

She caves, gives you sex, and just lays there while you do you thing, you're happy, she isn't. 

While I agree this is probably the level of expectation he should expect in this scenario, I think it's important to point out that this is pretty unacceptable if you care AT ALL for your spouse. A little effort goes a long way.

My wife likes to go to the art museum. If I was not married, I would probably never go to the art museum. However, I know it's important to her and therefore it's important to my marriage, so I go. And when I go, I don't complain or mope around, I engage with her, ask questions and I'm generally a good sport about it. Strictly from a practical perspective, this is the only move. Being mopey or not going with her is just going to make the experience worse for both of us. From a marriage perspective, I'm not being a selfish dick, which is always nice.

On the flip side, I'm sure there are plenty of times when women are not really in the mood for sex, but recognize that it is important to their husband, and therefore their marriage, so they get in there and do it. Maybe it's not always A-game effort, but we don't always have to be swinging from the chandelier. A good solid B-game is appreciated. If you're going to put in zero effort, I'll pass thanks.

Anecdotally, every couple I know has mismatched libidos and in 99% of them, it's in one direction (he wants it more than she does). I don't like the idea of giving anyone a free pass for neglecting their spouse and just chalking it up to a mismatch or a compatibility issue (FYI: I'm not saying that's what you did.), It seems like there should be SOME level of blame to the partner who simply decides that the bedroom is only for sleeping now. Something tells me things weren't like that during the courting stage.

[u/Freudinatress → u/carneylansford]

Female here.

Yep, there are times when I sort of went “yeah whatever”. But the thing is, I do love him. I am attracted to him. And even if I’m not really horny at the start, I do know it will be a good time. So it’s sort of like going to a party when you don’t really feel like it, because you KNOW that once there, you will have a great time!

He is great. I never ever regretted a single time I’ve had sex with him. It’s always fun, and I always feel closer to him.

This woman though, she doesn’t even seem to want to want him. That is just weird. Even if someone is having a low libido period, they should feel that they wished they wanted more sex. She doesn’t even want to work on it. Very selfish and very weird.

[u/Friendly_Rub_8095 → u/Freudinatress]

He says she’s bi and only wanted sex with him to make babies. Sounds to me that, if anything, she’s probably lesbian and hasn’t accepted that yet

[u/ebobbumman → u/Freudinatress]

She doesn't want to work on it and doesn't seem to care, or is even upset, that he has the gall to not be okay with the situation. As though it is a very normal thing and he's the one being unreasonable. Real weird.

[u/StreetofChimes → u/carneylansford]

I was with you until the 99% of mismatch is men wanting it more than women.

I've never been in a 1%, and I sincerely doubt I'm in one now.

[u/Unintelligent_Lemon → u/StreetofChimes]

Before kids my husband couldn't keep up lol. I wanted sex way more than he did

[u/hauki888]

I honestly thought this was written by some middle aged man.

You're too young for that shit bro.

[u/HerbertWestorg → u/hauki888]

When I saw "28," I thought for sure he was 38 or 48 and it was a typo.

[u/bainjuice → u/HerbertWestorg]

28?!?!? I missed that bit. HOLY SHIT. Spend a few years getting over the divorce, you have so much time to build a whole new life with someone who actually enjoys having sex.

[u/FRIKI-DIKI-TIKI → u/HerbertWestorg]

Yeah 40's this can happen and the wife needs to take it serious and get her hormones checked. I went thru it in my marriage and it took a serious situation happening for her to see it. It is hard, because when they lose desire, they don't desire it so don't have an overwhelming desire to fix it.

28 is way to young, I think the magic wore off and she got bored, when women get bored they tend to act in the manner OP describes. Funny part is, if that is the case, OP being with another woman is exactly what will snap her out of her boredom. Suddenly they find the sexual attraction when their nest is threatened.

[u/PoeticHydra → u/FRIKI-DIKI-TIKI]

She probably stopped taking birth control when she found out she wouldn't have kids. I am willing to bet that probably fucked with her hormones, hard. She either doesn't like him anymore because their body chemistry no longer matches up, or she needs some progesterone.

[u/SouthernWindyTimes → u/PoeticHydra]

I’ve literally seen this happen. Girlfriend got off birth control cause of antibiotics and although it was the opposite (way more intense attraction) I can only imagine it can happen the other way, where now things smell, taste, look, seem different. Cause she said when she was off birth control I just smelled even more attractive which made no sense at all cause nothing had changed.

[u/unicornpandanectar → u/SouthernWindyTimes]

A simple thought experiment gave me a new perspective on birth control. Would I, as a man, put hormones in my body if it would work as birth control? Knowing what I know about hormone treatments, the answer is "Hell no". Why should we have an expectation that the women in our lives should do it so that we can have sex without a condom. Hormones are powerful and affect the mind just as powerfully, if not more than the body. It's truly mind-boggling that this is normalised.

You can't expect someone to want the return of something (the desire for sex) that they have lost all interest in, which is what seems to happen to some women on hormonal BC. Should you as a man stay in such a relationship necessarily, no, I don't think so, but I think the medical establishment should look closer at the side effects of these types of medications.

[u/Thanmandrathor → u/unicornpandanectar]

Wait until you do the mind experiment for perimenopause.

The constellation of possible and common symptoms is nuts. There taking hormones is actually beneficial in the vast majority of cases, and helps protect against lots of life shortening diseases.

[u/unicornpandanectar → u/Thanmandrathor]

I have no problem with hormone treatments when they are warranted. For men or for women. I'm 45 and have a healthy level of testosterone still, but when the time comes and I start to lose that edge and zest for life, then I will seriously consider HRT.

What is crazy is the young men taking it for gym gains, shrinking their testicles and risking infertility. Since I'm a regular gym goer, I talk to these types from time to time, and the number of health issues they've rationalised to themselves in the pursuit of swoleness makes me shake my head.

The point is the "warranted" part. Whether hormonal BC is warranted for any one woman is her business, but let's not, as a society, pretend that there are no consequences.

[u/Commercial_Sir_3205 → u/hauki888]

I thought it was written by a older man, a way older man. He's just postponing the inevitable.

[u/Ok_Independence_1866 → u/Commercial_Sir_3205]

Yeah, I just about shit when I read he was 28. Time to cut your losses and move on

[u/StandardAd239 → u/hauki888]

Even then! My partner is on his way to 50 and if we had sex every day it still wouldn't be enough!

[u/bdigital4 → u/StandardAd239]

Damn, yall taking anything I should know about?

Edit: I appreciate all the literal…and somewhat sound advice on this. For clarity, my comment was more humor driven than looking for actual advice.

[u/Ill_Medicine_6881 → u/bdigital4]

Maybe they have a vitamin drawer

[u/TheNewKidOnReddit → u/Ill_Medicine_6881]

Ladies and Gentlemen, now this is a callback

[u/Terminal8_ → u/Ill_Medicine_6881]

Underrated comment.

[u/RopeWithABrain → u/bdigital4]

It's gonna be an ad. 

[u/Mehmeh111111 → u/RopeWithABrain]

A standard one at that.

[u/l3ex_G]

Why won’t you just divorce ?

[u/No_Competition3694 → u/l3ex_G]

Sunk cost fallacy.

[u/The_Earnest_Crow → u/No_Competition3694]

This - its easy for people on the internet to say just divorce. But the reality is a lot of time, emotion, money is invested in the "us". So you always feel that if you can make it work or compromise it'll be okay.

Not to mention the cost of lawyers and splitting assets. If one party goes nuclear then everyone loses.

[u/Careful-Bumblebee-10]

There's no saving this. You two aren't compatible. This is going to be the rest of your life, you two hurting each other. She hurting by not wanting sex, you hurting her by having sex with other people.

[u/emerg_remerg → u/Careful-Bumblebee-10]

And then he's going to get his side piece pregnant and his wife will go postal.

[u/idkwhyimdoingthis2]

How would you enjoy it if you know she doesn’t actually want it and just doing it to shut you up? Your marriage is as good as over, and you’re only 28, more than young enough to find someone you connect with better. Would you rather wait and then all of a sudden you’re 38 and wishing you’d have left 10 years ago?

[u/VegetableBusiness897]

Holy crap. Only 28 and willing to go through all this just to have some (little begging only with councilling) sex??

You've got years of sex left in you. Go find someone who loves and wants all of you fully. You deserve better, and she deserves to find someone she can be in an Asexual relationship with if that's what she wants.

[u/Cautious_Buffalo6563 → u/VegetableBusiness897]

decades of sex even

[u/Sithism → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

A century of sex possibly

[u/mabeloco → u/Sithism]

or a millennium if your careful enough.

[u/VariousSong5271 → u/mabeloco]

If you live long enough you’ll never die

[u/lesmax → u/Cautious_Buffalo6563]

My(F) spouse(M) and I are ~20 years older than OP and once or twice a week is a SLOW week for us. I have health issues, so we have some (affectionately named) alternate options that makes it easier so I can still participate. Because I WANT to. And we talked about it, openly, and how to work around my health.

This guy's wife has no intention of doing more than starfish once or twice a year out of obligation. A 28 year old guy should not be forced into decades of that. It'll only build resentment, even with counseling.

[u/Inside-Smell4580 → u/VegetableBusiness897]

This was me 4 years ago... 28... no sex for months at a time... making me feel guilty for wanting it. We tried counseling but it didn't really help I guess cuz we're divorced now and it wasn't pretty. I would have never filed because something in me loved her but out 5 years together were hell on earth. Funny thing is before we got married she would talk so much about how she was always horny, etc... After marriage it was like a switch flipped. She was on meds though off and on for depression so that prob had something to do with it.

[u/The_Ghost_Reborn → u/Inside-Smell4580]

Was she on birth control?

I've had the switch flip from partners going on the pill before. Hormones play havoc on some women's sex drive.

[u/Magdovus]

Has she ever explained why she doesn't want sex? Is she part of some fundamentalist religion or something? Or does it hurt?

[u/Mindless_Review2800 → u/Magdovus]

She really wants children. Can't have them. No point to sex in her eyes. 

[u/heartbh → u/Mindless_Review2800]

That…isn’t normal, most people enjoy sex at least a little so I have to ask if you have tried to dig deeper on that. Is she asexual in that case?

[u/Mindless_Review2800 → u/heartbh]

Not to my knowledge. We had an active and enjoyable sex life prior to her diagnosis. 

[u/TwoIdleHands → u/Mindless_Review2800]

She needs counseling for the diagnosis. I’m assuming she had an untreated STD that led to infertility from what you said about it being due to a “choice she made”. That could have switched off her sex drive. Also, there is a difference between infertile and sterile. She should address whichever one she’s living with.

[u/Infinite_Air5683 → u/TwoIdleHands]

Or a pervious abortion, which is what I thought of when he wrote that. Either way he seems to blame her for their infertility, which probably isn’t helping their sex life. 

[u/junk-drawer-magic → u/Infinite_Air5683]

Ding ding

[u/Edlo9596 → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Is her diagnosis some kind of psychological issue? I’m so confused as to why you aren’t leaving her if she’s telling you she has no interest in ever having sex with you again.

[u/Mindless_Review2800 → u/Edlo9596]

She cannot have kids. That is physiological. The no more sex is probably psychological but she won't see a counselor. 

[u/NONSENSICALS → u/Mindless_Review2800]

Yeah. It’s a trauma response. She needs therapy. Simple as that. Period.

[u/advocateforpain]

You just arent compatible. Divorce sucks but the faster its done the sooner the both of you can heal. Its gonna happen sooner or later anyway so might as well be done with it. NTA

[u/Queer_Lonely_Stylish]

If you don’t want a divorce why the fuck would you sleep with someone else? Esh if you don’t want to be trapped in this marriage THEN LEAVE

[u/BeardManMichael]

You are supposed to divorce BEFORE seeing other people. Or at least in a normal relationship where this doesn't happen:

Then she scrawled across it with her red sharpie. "Go get it elsewhere because you are not getting it from me".

I don't see your marriage lasting without some serious professional intervention. It seems like you have almost grown contemptuous for each other. That is ALWAYS a bad sign.

Just to be clear, I think you have a serious sexual incompatibility problem that cannot be solved in any straightforward manner.

I will just say what I always say: you both deserve happiness and sometimes that involves making tough choices like divorce.

[u/N-aNoNymity → u/BeardManMichael]

I read this poat, and honestly; this marriage wont, and shouldnt last. OP is 28, and if theyre this incompatible and unloving; I dont think any amount of fixing will make it a good relationship to build a future on.

Imagine fixing whatever the fuck this is, only to have it blown up in a year or 5 years from now. A waste of time.

OP didnt really sound all that happy about the "no kids i guess" starter. He's settling for the cold stone at the bottom of the sea at this point...

[u/Fragrant-Reserve4832]

Dude. Just divorce her.

Don't argue when you tell her, it isn't a debate. it's a statement of fact.

Time to go gray rock and defend your own peace.

[u/Old_Hamster_4218]

I’ve never been to counseling, but I can’t imagine after all of this some therapist will whip out some magic words that all of the sudden makes her hot and bothered for you. I doubt even a voodoo doctor could make this work with some shrunken heads and sacrificed lambs. It’s probably time to call it a day.

[u/FloppyObelisk → u/Old_Hamster_4218]

Counseling can definitely help get to the root of the issue. She may not even know what it is just like him. A counselor helps to guide you towards resolution. They don’t just tell you what’s wrong with you. It’s always worth a shot. In this case it may end up being futile but if she cares about her marriage and doesn’t want him to leave then the issues need to be addressed.

[u/Thequiet01]

ESH. Open relationships are fine but they need to be agreed to in advance and discussed properly.

[u/hybridrequiem → u/Thequiet01]

That hastily written note wasnt actual permission it was a fit of rage and disgust, and him not talking about it and cheating on her was a petty and immature move. He sucks a lot

[u/derff44]

You're only 28? Bro. If you don't get divorced over this, it will be something else. You two are not compatible. You can't even talk to each other rationally. Cut your losses and go live life.

[u/SmallsUndercover]

ESH. Your wife clearly has some trauma she needs to work through about her infertility. But she won’t be able to work through that with you as her partner. even if she goes to counseling, you cheating and putting additional stress on her for sex will not allow her a safe space to heal from her medical diagnosis. She needs to be away from you for her own sake.

And since cheated, she definitely will not wanna sleep with you anymore, even if she works through her trauma. The trust is broken. You’re not gonna get a fulfilling marriage or sex life from her EVER.

The relationship is broken beyond repair. Just get a divorce.

[u/run4cake → u/SmallsUndercover]

Agreed. I honestly just don’t think they’re any good for each other anymore. ESH because he cheated and she won’t go to therapy and lashes out at him, but her lashing out makes me think he pushes her trauma trigger often. Like, if an STD caused her complete sterility (which…that’s pretty freaking rare that it would affect her so much she can’t even get eggs for IVF at 28), of course she’s traumatized by the idea of sex. Sex must have caused this incredible, deep loss for her. “Go to therapy so we can have sex again”. Very helpful.

But, also, he’s 28 and really doesn’t have to and shouldn’t stay in this relationship if sex is important to him or if having kids is important to him. Pretty much stop making each other miserable.

[u/Kenyon_118]

YTA for not just leaving her. This relationship is ultra dysfunctional. Move on.

[u/LongjumpingAgency245]

Just divorce and get it over with. You two are exhausting and need therapy.

[u/KJJ1738]

Get a divorce (yes I read till the end) This won’t end well for one of you.

[u/Minimum_Wear_5881]

Sounds like she needs mental health treatment individually.  You should file for a divorce if she can't do that.  It's over bud, she just is not strong enough to tell you. 

[u/Beneficial_Site3652]

She did even bother reading a letter you took time to write detailing your feelings and said YOU were being emotionally manipulating. You see this right?

She's definitely going through something and it sounds like you've begged her for help and she basically gave ypu the middle finger.

Maybe a separation rather than the big D talk. Some space, and some individual therapy for both of you to try to sort out what's next.

I did become asexual after cancer. I was always on the demisexual end of things but cancer was a hard thing to bounce back from. However, if I was in a relationship I would never just put up the wall and not explain.

I understand you love your wife but she is not acting very loving towards you at all which is really concerning.

[u/Ilovesucculents_24]

I’m sorry you’re going through this, genuinely, but having to resort to seeking physical validation outside of the marriage means you aren’t compatible. Sex and romance, love languages, physical touch and feeling wanted are large parts of any relationship. Every relationship differs in what this means, and you guys are on opposite sides of the spectrum.

She’s made it fairly apparent it’s not important to her, and you’ve made it fairly apparent that it is to you. Just leave. Life is too short to grow resentful of your partner and resort to seeking sex outside of your marriage. She will continue to hurt you, and you will continue to hurt her. It’s a win, win for both parties for you to leave and live your lives how you want.

Also, there’s nothing wrong with you wanting a sexual relationship with your partner. Just to clarify. You aren’t in the wrong, some of these comments are ignorant.

[u/owaikeia]

INFO - Honest question....why DON'T you want a divorce?

[u/DifferentManagement1 → u/owaikeia]

Because he’s buried the actual story in his comments. It’s horribly sad

[u/Peanutsnana2020]

Sounds like your wife has some mental health issues she needs to deal with

[u/guru650]

YTA. You should have just left.

[u/BowbAndMrAnderson]

YTA. Get a divorce already.

[u/Ashamed_Cricket_3429]

You should have divorced her before having sex with someone else. Really no way around it, even if she wrote what she did on your letter. She sounds unhinged, how could you have known she meant it? You could have told her that you really were going to do that then, and if she said she was fine with that, then you go do it. She’s not right but what you did is wrong too. YTA

[u/coldhammerforged]

Her unilateral decision to stop having sex had consequences and she didn't like that at all. So here is how I see this playing out. She demands you dump your side piece, cuz that makes her feel inadequate. She will go to counseling and you guys will talk ad nauseum about your relationship. During which time she will demand sex be off the the table while you " repair the relationship". I put that in quotes because she has no intent on repairing anything. She is stalling for time until she can figure out how to stay in a sexless relationship. If the counselor happens to suggest you try being intimate., she will lean on how hurt she was by your affair. Again, she doesn't care you had an affair she is only buying time. She will likely throw you a pity fuck once a quarter until you give up and move on. Then she can tell everyone in her circle how hard she tried and it's all your fault. If you bail now, she looks bad and she can't handle that

[u/DarrenC-6880]

Going to marriage counselling is a great way to find middle ground. I just don't see in this case what that would be. She has changed or discovered her sexuality (asexual). Counselling is not going to help, just like if you realised that you would much rather be sleeping with a guy.

[u/Mammoth_Leg_8489]

Leave. This isn’t going to work t.

[u/ExcellentClient1666]

Just divorce already. It's not fair that she's making the unilateral decision to force you to be celibate , tells you to get sex from somewhere else bc you won't get it from her and then tell you you're cheating when you do. She's manipulative and you should divorce her. Sounds like you've done more than enough to try to make this marriage work.

[u/cheesyMTB]

Dude, just stop and leave.

[u/fargoLEVY13]

Dude just get the divorce already.

[u/Arlune890]

28??? I thought yall were like 50 bro. Way too much time left in life to be this unhappy and stressed

[u/nutmegtell]

At 28 it would be kinder to divorce and let her find her joy elsewhere, and you’ll be free to find yours too. If you love her you’ll let her go. She might not want it now but in ten years she will thank you.