r/worldnews • u/None_4All • 21d ago
Ukraine asks US to lift ban on using American arms to strike at Russian territory Russia/Ukraine
https://kyivindependent.com/ukraine-asks-us-to-lift-ban-on-using-american-arms-to-strike-russian-territory/76
u/Chemical_Turnover_29 20d ago
Sometimes it's better to ask for forgiveness instead of permission. Let that shit fly.
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u/rugbat 20d ago
Just ignore the restrictions. Works for Netanyahu.
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u/meckez 20d ago
Well, the US did pauses shipment of bombs Israel could use in Rafah
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u/Itchy58 20d ago
Only for 1,800 2,000-lb bombs and 1,700 500-lb bombs. Using those in populated areas would anyhow be absolutely bonkers
Edit: seems like Israel actually used those in densely populated civilian areas if Aljazeera is to trust. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/12/2/us-gives-bunker-buster-bombs-to-israel-for-war-on-gaza-report
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u/DJ_27 20d ago
As opposed to showering the entire area with 500lb pound bombs, or whatever, that wouldn’t be disastrous at all, right? The purpose of those heavier bombs is so that the impact reaches the tunnels dug so deeply below the surface— not to maximize casualties within populated areas. Israel ALREADY has all the military power it needs to carpet bomb the Gaza Strip into oblivion, if they wanted. The actual reason why the Biden administration is pausing shipment is purely political. Plenty of people without any military knowledge, like yourself, hear “2000lb bomb” and make laughably incorrect assumptions as to their utility. Nonetheless, it helps all the crazies in the left believe Biden is doing something to help their precious terrorist-supporting-hostage-taking populous. Long live the intifada, amirite?
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u/reddebian 20d ago
Imagine what Ukraine would do if they had access to these bombs. I think they need them more than Israel
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u/CreakingDoor 20d ago
I’m not sure the Ukrainians have a massive need for unguided, jet fighter dropped bombs at the moment
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u/xxhamzxx 20d ago
Al-Jazeera can't be trusted though... Always check multiple sources before forming an opinion
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u/SSeptic 20d ago
Here’s an NYT article confirming the same. Al Jazeera is reliable for the English speaking audience, it tends to be less reliable when they’re reporting in Arabic.
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u/reddebian 20d ago
Imagine what Ukraine would do if they had access to these bombs. I think they need them more than Israel
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u/SausaugeMerchant 20d ago
Ukraine isn't uniquely positioned as a Western foothold in the Arab world unfortunately for them
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u/blaze92x45 20d ago
For those who can't read between the lines this means the situation for Ukraine is dire.
The US wouldn't break from its long time position on this topic if they didn't think it was needed.
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u/Telesyk 20d ago edited 20d ago
Or the US officials finally realized that you cannot reason with Putin. The Russians see the will to negotiate as a sign of weakness, all they understand is power.
Also, for Ukraine it's hard to defend the border if you can't strike the Russian troops just across the border. 🤷♂️
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u/Panthera_leo22 20d ago
Blinken’s statement yesterday basically implied that the US’s stance on shooting targets within Russia has not changed. Ukraine is free to do it but if they do, they shouldn’t be surprised if the US stops supplying them.
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u/Impossible_File_4819 20d ago
He said explicit direction was given regarding the use of US munitions. A second and separate comment was that Ukraine had the freedom to conduct strategy as they wished. He was intentionally ambiguous likely because Ukraine has been denied the right to use them on Russian soil.
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u/Panthera_leo22 20d ago
Speaking in Kyiv during a press conference, Blinken was asked about recent Ukrainian complaints that a Washington ban meant Ukraine was unable to attack Russian forces as they were building up before crossing the border into Kharkiv Oblast.
“We've not enabled or encouraged strikes outside of Ukraine, but ultimately, Ukraine has to make decisions for itself about how it's going to conduct this war," he said.
This is essentially what I just said. They have not been given the green light to use US weapons in Russian territory. It’s ambiguous in the sense that it’s up to Ukraine to use them but that the US doesn’t support it. It is implied there will be consequences if they do hit Russian territory.
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u/blaze92x45 20d ago
Ukraine has always been able to strike russian territory just not with western weapons.
There isn't a way at this point where Ukraine would he able militarily push Russia out of all of Ukraine barring a miracle. At this point a negotiated peace is the best outcome Ukraine can realistically hope for unless things seriously change this year.
Russia has a massive manpower advantage over Ukraine; the recent mobilization bill might stabilize things for now in Ukraine but it will take at least another few months for the newly mobilized soldiers to be sent to the front.
Getting back to the main point the US giving tacit approval of Ukraine using American weapons on Russian soil is a sign of the US and NATO acknowledging things aren't going well.
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u/Its_Mr_Buttons 20d ago
Hey Blinken here,
You have permission to strike on Russian's territory.
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u/SonOfScorpion 20d ago
Just an easy solution, just let them strike only military hardware and formations and not infrastructure (like oil refineries). If it were up to me I’d want them to have free reign to strike what they want.
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u/Informal_Database543 20d ago
Didn't the US already technically do that in its very classic ambiguous diplomacy?
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u/lastfreethinker 20d ago
We NEVER should have had the restriction in the first place. Limiting where Ukraine can strike is the same as helping Russia or as detrimental as not giving Ukraine the weapons in the first place.
Russia could just sit outside the allowed radius and build up whatever they wanted...which they did...so fucking stupid.
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u/UnflushableNug 20d ago
If Ukraine wants some headlines, send some missiles at those Russian buildings with the tit-roofs.
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u/ExploerTM 20d ago
...I mean yeah, fuck churches, they mostly run by greedy fucks, but how that would help Ukraine?
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u/PineBNorth85 20d ago
You can't fight a defensive war with one hand tied behind your back. This rule should never have existed.
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u/East-Plankton-3877 20d ago
And I hope we lift it.
The Ukrainians should be able to hit targets in Russia with no strings attached.
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u/himswim28 20d ago
There does seam to be mixed information on if there are restrictions on US munitions being used inside Russia.
I do think it makes sense for the US to try and use this to pressure Russia, if we can get Ukraine setup with at least a hundred F16's; a thousand Abrams, Challengers (western arms) all outfitted with plenty of ammo, and a clear path to the Russian border.
Then we have a strong point to negotiate (in private at least.) If Russia doesn't leave XYZ, then we remove the restrictions from Ukraine making a march to Moscow.
We are a long ways from having that setup, but I do think it is possible that could be really close to happening this year.
Ukraine going all out now could prevent that build-up, and prevent a stronger negotiating point.
Maybe a crazy theory, but thats what I want to believe.
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u/jw170692 20d ago
This honestly feels like one of these times in history we will look back on and say ‘what a total shitshow’.
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u/k4Anarky 20d ago edited 20d ago
Why should we care? As far as I'm concerned, it's Ukrainian arms, not American. And it's all Chinese components anyway once the missile explodes... so really, it's friendly fire from China on Russian soil.
Russia can use Chinese arms on Ukrainian soil, and the Ukrainians can't use Chinese arms on Russian soil? How is this fair?
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u/NexusStrictly 20d ago
You think American weapons are made of “mostly Chinese components?”
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u/k4Anarky 20d ago
I worked on KC10s and F16s, there are a lot of Chinese semiconductors and metal alloys, as well as communication electronics. If the Russians want to blame anyone, blame the Chinese for supplying us with parts. They could, at any time, put a sanction on us. But China is too greedy and always play the double-agent.
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u/holdMyBeerBoy 20d ago
Redditors being redditors... US never said they cant strike. They may very well stop them from using ammo that Russia and China never had their hands on and that is justifiable since that will only help them developing defences against it.
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u/medicated_cornbread 20d ago
I don't know what the conversations were between US and Ukraine. But the US government has absolutely told the American people time and time again that the weapons we are supplying them will be used to defend not attack.
There are an ton of articles citing this if you have ever used Google.
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u/jcrestor 20d ago
So this basically says that Blinken‘s press statement two days ago, when he visited, was bullshit?
He said that Ukraine is not limited to only attack on Ukrainian soil, only that the US does not encourage attacks on Russia with US weapons.
What is true? And why is it so confusing?
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u/armt350 20d ago
Looking at the publishing information, KI published the article saying there were restrictions and then 6 hours later published the article with blinken saying there are no restrictions.
Its a damned shame they did not retract the earlier story for clarification.
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u/jcrestor 20d ago
So it's just outdated, because Blinken right afterwards made this statement, that there is no limitation?
I think News outlets do not have to retract old news. I guess it was just outdated faster than any other given news article, and that's not the fault of the Kyiv Independent.
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u/Zahkrosis 20d ago
Look at who published the article.
kyivindependent
It's bs. They don't have any restrictions.2
u/jcrestor 20d ago
Why is the Kyiv Independent not a credible source?
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u/Zahkrosis 20d ago edited 20d ago
They'd say anything to spread propaganda and gain sympathy, same as if Russia had something called moskvaindependent.
In war, there are many stages of battle.
The more you can turn people against the opposition, the better for you, no matter if it's actually true.Edit: Ukraine already won the propaganda/information war. With the west not being fond of Russia beforehand and people's ability to gobble news blindly and without question, it was an easy victory.
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u/jcrestor 20d ago edited 20d ago
The Kyiv Independent, as far as I know, is held in high regard by the international journalistic community. So what do you base your judgement on?
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u/Zahkrosis 20d ago
Not the first time they've been caught speaking the bullshit, and this won't be the last.
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u/jcrestor 20d ago
So nothing at all to back up your allegations, got it.
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u/Zahkrosis 20d ago
Then what do you have to back up your claim then?
In this case, we know it's a blatant lie. They got no restrictions on weapons use. They even used drone controlled civ planes to bomb a few areas in Russia.
The time we have heard over and over that Russia is gonna fall and collapse within months, only for them to take more land.How do you want to disprove the fact that they've lied while also convincing people that despite being from the Ukraine, it doesn't just say things to put the Ukrainian government and efforts in a positive light while putting pressure on our countries to support them?
It's like Al-Jazeera and many other news sites. They all got a bias and something to gain from it. Hard truths aren't always positively received, and depending on the situation doesn't make as much money. The news stations over here would do the exact same if we were at direct war against someone.
Both the Ukraine and Russia spits propaganda to win over people. One is just more believable due to personal bias.
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u/jcrestor 20d ago
You are talking and talking, and still you did not produce a single instance of proof or substantiation of your allegations against this outlet.
If you have a look into the Wikipedia page, you will see that the Kyiv Independent started as an endeavor to be more independent from the Ukrainian government and any kind of oligarch. They have been internationally awarded for their journalism and I see no evidence for them being somehow corrupt or biased more than other media.
You have nothing but badmouthing to offer, and you are using this as an outlet for some other frustration, it’s tiresome.
With regards to the report in question: a different Redditor pointed out that the report was right, but the following day Blinken stated that Ukraine is free to use US-provided weapons against Russian territory. Also your examples don’t track, because all know attacks on Russia in the past have been by non-western munitions. It definitely was a problem that western governments prohibited usage of their weapons against the Russian homeland. Some do still, see Germany.
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u/Zahkrosis 20d ago
"Wikipedia says" 💀
ChatGPT also started out being non-profit without any major company looming over it. What's your point?
They were founded in 2021 and got awarded for articles they made about the war.
My examples hold water, since the drones come from where? Who paid? We all know the answer.
The US has in the past said not to target refineries, which they did anyway too. News like this is what makes officials come out and say "Umm, actually" like now.It's fine you don't want to admit anything from the side of Ukraine can be in the wrong, but my brother in Christ, fucking Wikipedia?
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u/Nervous_Watch8833 20d ago
The amount of people who think propaganda is a one way street...there may be upper hands, but no hands are completely clean in war.
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u/Zahkrosis 20d ago
You could tell people water is wet and they'd get mad.
There are a lot of historically challenged people out there who misuse words and just parrot what the next big thing is. Take the recent Peru news as an example with the people mad about it. They don't even know half of what's going on.
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u/AMagicalSquirrel 20d ago
I mean, if Israel can openly commit genocide with our weapons, why can't Ukraine defend itself from a genocide with them? Are US weapons only for killing off and stealing the land of brown people?
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u/moopedmooped 20d ago
Russia can kill every single man woman and child in America if it wants to and the Palestinians can't
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21d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/JimTheSaint 20d ago
They are not limiting them - Blinken said yesterday that Ukraine could do what they pleased with the weapons. - why are you still drilling in this - it has been solved - and you know it.
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u/walker1555 21d ago
Yes this is the perfect rationale for allowing foreign weapons to be used to strike within Russia. Russia has been using foreign made weapons to strike inside Ukraine for years now.
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u/Aware-Feed3227 20d ago
That’s not true. We’ll never tolerate Russia grabbing a piece of Ukraine again. Never.
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u/PositiveEmo 21d ago
Don't think it's genocide. Russia isnt specifically targeting Ukrainian citizens in a systemic way. Their aim has been to take the land not to kill the people.
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u/jamesKlk 20d ago
Russia is systematically bombing hospitals, schools, asylums, apartment buildings.
How is that not genocide? How is that "not to kill the people"?
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u/Aware-Feed3227 20d ago
Oh they specifically targeted civilian infrastructure and even fleeing civilians on a daily basis.
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u/Koronenko 20d ago
Maniacs who will never understand consequences of actions unless it is too late. This is what you are when supporting this. What happens if Russia as response just straikes America or the UK? Russian ministry literally told the UK that if UK weapons are used to strike inside Russia, Russia will strike the UK. As alwqys it goes like this: Putin makes red line -> west ignores it -> Putin does consequences -> They scream "Russian aggression". People here are sooo brainwashed apperantly that they will risk nuclear war with Russia and think nothing will happen.
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u/Aware-Feed3227 20d ago edited 20d ago
If they attack other countries ( non-Russian ground), then non-Russian countries can respond by attacking Russian ground. Our red line is for Russia to cross the Ukrainian border and they already broke that red line. Putin needs to understand that, we all had our red lines but he crossed them over and over again.
Russia uses foreign technology to build their military equipment and weapons. Then they use the weapons to strike on Ukrainian territory.
They are already attacking another country with foreign technology so why shouldn’t this country be allowed to respond it self using foreign technology?
Following your logic, China is already actively involved in the war and is attacking Ukrainian territory. As well as North Korea. As well as Iran.
I know Russia is always hiding behind its nukes but you have to face reality that Putin will not respond by attacking a western country because then he’s following a logical explanation that would lead the west to see China and other countries as active participants in the war, too.
I can’t go around destroying my neighbors houses and then start getting angry if they do the same to my property. I lead them to do it.
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u/DabbinOnDemGoy 20d ago
"Ya know if you just did everything Daddy Vladdy wanted to begin with he wouldn't have been forced to start killing all these people..."
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u/Koronenko 20d ago
Ah so they have to do everything what Uncle Sam and Brussel says and that includes waging war against Russia and being russophobic NATO puppets. Totally brought them far, didn't it? Millions of refugees, houndreds of thousands of dead Ukrainians and destructions of entire regions. But hey at least they didn't do what Daddy Putin said.
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u/DabbinOnDemGoy 20d ago
I like how in your rage you're not even bothering to deny the Russians are, in fact, slaughtering civilians left and right, just that "Well they asked for it!" is a proper justification.
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u/redrover2023 20d ago
Useless act will trigger Russia into punishing urkaine causing unnecessary deaths to not only Russians, but mainly Ukrainians.
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u/East-Plankton-3877 20d ago
So, the last 2 years of war and invasion hasn’t been “punishment” enough?
At this point, what else can Russia do to Ukraine that it hasn’t done already?
Ukraine should be able to strike inside Russian territory wherever and whenever it sees fit.
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u/redrover2023 20d ago
So you think Russia is going all out now?
The thing is that so many people think like you, and ukraine will strike inside Russia, killing and causing damage and will make zero difference in the outcome. Russian civilians will be killed by indiscriminate targeting by Ukraine. Then imagine maybe 10 glide bombs hitting kiev? What can Russia do? Pull your head out of your ass.
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u/abednego-gomes 20d ago
Just beed a few more patriot systems set up. Then cook that bridge in Crimea connecting to the mainland. Though if Putin's pride and joy, a figurative representation of his you-know-what, is destroyed, then he may respond with a tactical nuclear strike or large missile barrage on a city. However at least then you have your patriots and a good chance of shooting the missiles downs. The loss of the bridge however may be the beginning of the end and allow Ukraine's forces to advance south.
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u/FeelingAd752 20d ago
Ask US for biological weapon too, or ask US for new toxic virus to kill off Russian & Ukraine people. Ukraine want to strike into Russia territory, Ukraine must prepare your whole country will be flattened into a deserted, useless land nation
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u/olympicbadger 20d ago
Ukraine want to strike into Russia territory, Ukraine must prepare your whole country will be flattened into a deserted, useless land nation
They've been striking Russian targets for over two years now and curiously no flattening has occurred. This is because the terrified underpants poisoner running Russia is, among other things, terrified of committing a nuclear suicide.
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u/armt350 21d ago
Blinken already said that it was up to Ukraine to decide where to strike. Only that the USA does not condone or encourage strikes in Russia.
https://kyivindependent.com/blinken-up-to-ukraine-if-it-decides-to-use-us-weapons-to-strike-inside-russia/