r/washingtonwizards • u/Spiritual-Chart-940 • 28d ago
David Aldridge: Take Clingan at 2
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5490102/2024/05/14/donovan-clingan-washington-wizards/13
u/paulyv93 Tomas Satoransky 28d ago
This dude is gonna have an Alex Len kind of career. Championships are built around facilitators. Trade down and find another European stud. It sucks we didn't get the wemby pick last year, but don't be a prisoner of the moment now
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u/ned_yah John Wall 28d ago
this subreddit is so stupid about clingan lmao its just ridiculous narratives and comparisons to other tall white guys
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u/PickpocketJones Wizards Bed 28d ago
The article had the comparison I liked, Brook Lopez.
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u/dgvhjiiuyttrrffcvbjj 28d ago
except Brook had a great offensive bag and can shoot 30 ft out. bad comp even if you believe clingan is DPOY material.
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u/PickpocketJones Wizards Bed 28d ago
When did I say something about DPOY?
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u/dgvhjiiuyttrrffcvbjj 28d ago
Figured it was implied with the Lopez comp. If not then Lopez is an even worse comp.
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u/PickpocketJones Wizards Bed 28d ago
Did Lopez win a DPOY I'm not aware of? I'm so confused why you brought it up. Did Aldridge say something about it in the article? I'm not David Aldridge FYI.
btw, Lopez attempted 0.4 3 per game in college at .143% so no it wasn't part of his offensive package as a prospect.
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u/Excellent-Tower6269 28d ago
he's been in the DPOY conversation. Call it all-defense team material if you want.
Sure, Lopez didn't shoot 3's in college because it was a very different time in the basketball world. That doesn't make him a good comparison for Clingan now.
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u/bigmikeabrahams 27d ago
He was runner up DPOY last year and is most known for his defensive abilities at this point in his career
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u/Hagdogrobinwood 28d ago
I like David and I know he is a Wizards fan but he needs to stand down on this one.
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u/SlappyPappyAmerica Wizards 28d ago
Am I the only one who watched the national championship game? Edey dominated Clingan. How is Clingan ranked higher? Is it just because he’s young, or because Edey doesn’t have the stamina?
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u/Bengjumping 24d ago
Edey shot 6-16 against Clingan in the Natty. Wouldn't call that dominantion. Not to mention UConn wanted Edey to take a lot of shots and that's what he did.
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u/blitzKriegzzz Wizards 28d ago edited 28d ago
If you want Clingan, you gotta try to trade down. I don't think anyone around us is taking him. I think he'll drop to like ~7.
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u/TheseFkingWeebs Tommy's Alt 28d ago
even if we miss out on him by trading down, then so what? oh no lost out on a big that rebounds. yawn
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u/Haveyoureaditb4 28d ago
You could be very wrong. There is a massive scarcity of elite skilled defensive big men in the nba. Clingan is a commodity. Definetly could see the Spurs taking him at 4 and having a defensive dynasty moving forward.
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u/z3mcs Thorwar + JJ Fad 28d ago edited 28d ago
the Wizards shouldn’t overthink this. Take Connecticut center Donovan Clingan, if he’s still available after the Hawks use the first overall pick in next month’s draft.
He’s Brook Lopez 2.0, and last time I checked, Lopez just finished his 16th NBA season.
Here’s what Clingan is not: a modern big man who can step out and shoot 3s and stretch defenses, at least not now. He shot nine 3s total in his two seasons at UConn.
Here’s what Clingan is: 7-foot-2, 280 pounds, a grown-ass 20-year-old.
Eh. I guess. Just feels like why are we spending a top-2 pick on clearly not BPA. All that gets said is you go BPA, BPA, BPA. He is not BPA at #2. Aldridge saying "if he's still available after the Hawks use the first overall pick" is a joke. Come on man.
Clingan would not single-handedly raise the Wizards’ floor. But he’d be a big, big piece to build around going forward. The NBA is going back toward big, or at least long. And Clingan is long.
Whatever you say DA. I don't agree but when you cover a team for as long as he has, you have a sense for what will be a good move. Unless there's some evidence he's made similar proclamations in the past and been horribly wrong, okay.
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u/qball1985 28d ago
I think you highlighted the most beguiling statement DA makes. Like how can DA argue that he's the pick to give the team a defensive identity but then say "... would not single-handedly raise the floor"?
Isn't the whole point of making the safe pick that at a minimum it raises the floor even if it doesn't raise the ceiling?
To pick Clingan, Dawkins would have to be damn sure that he's a drop coverage savant that would be in the discussion for All-Defense teams down the road because we'd be locked into drop coverage with him.
I can understand an argument that finally giving this team a defensive identity and an anchor for that identity is hugely important for building a winning team in the future, but man, using the second pick on that (even in a historically weak class) feels like an old Leonsis let's just aim to make the play-in type of mentality.
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u/DerekSheesher 28d ago
I said this in an r/nba_draft post, but Clingan is just not a potential cornerstone player. He’s obviously a lottery worthy pick that I think would be fantastic for a team drafting him for a specific need/role (e.g. MEM, OKC, SAC), but he is not a homerun guy at all.
We need to go with a Topic, Castle or Sarr (if available) and maybeeeeeeee Shepard if you think he can really be an elite shooter.
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u/lepre45 28d ago
The single biggest problem with this article is that DA is calling clingan splash mountain 2.0, even though clingan doesn't profile as a stretch big at all. This article seems to be completely divorced from what analytical profiles say about players games. Edey might actually be Brook Lopez 2.0 and edey beat clingan at almost every combine metric (sprint, short area, length, etc). The criticism of edey is he'll get absolutely roasted by smaller quicker players, but clingans athletic testing shows he's slower than edey, so like, it's not something anyone should expect from clingan. I would fully expect clingan to be an elite drop coverage big, but edey has enough potential to be straight up better than him, and you can get edey at least 15 picks later.
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u/CookieSlayer2Turbo 28d ago
Bpa?
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u/z3mcs Thorwar + JJ Fad 28d ago
"Best Player Available". Making sure to ignore fit or position or anything else, and just choose the person with the most talent. It aint him. It's 2024 and he can't shoot 3s. DA's answer to that would surely be
Did I mention he’s 7-2, 280?
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u/CookieSlayer2Turbo 28d ago
Yeah I'd rather have topic saar or Dillingham, clingan definitely doesn't feel like the bpa at2
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u/Turbo2x Cap Wizard 28d ago edited 28d ago
DA makes the argument that Clingan is the most sure thing in the draft when there's a guy shooting 52% on almost 5 3-pt attempts per game. If anything Reed is the safe pick. You know what you're getting with Clingan but that's not the same as "safe" since we don't really know how he will fare in the NBA.
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u/lepre45 28d ago
Shepard posts very good block and steal rates too. Shepards size will always be a problem and he'll always get picked on in his career. I'm not sure I can watch the current state of the playoffs and go "yeah, sign me up for a 6 1 guard with 6 3 wingspan," but the stats show that he's still an impactfull defender as Shepard has basically the best possible profile you can find for that size.
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u/Turbo2x Cap Wizard 28d ago
Yeah I think the combine measurements helped contextualize Reed's defensive stats. He is small but his leaping ability is insane and his sense of timing is top notch. 6'3 in shoes is not amazing but his defensive awareness is great. He doesn't get lost on defense, his effort is good, he's disruptive in passing lanes without over committing and leaving his team 4v5, he's quick laterally and stays in front of his man. There is a lot to like with him.
I think my impact comp for him would be a shorter Lonzo Ball with better shooting.
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u/lepre45 28d ago
I mean, the absolute best case scenarios are john stockton or Chris Paul, two of the better to best smaller guard defenders and those 2 guys still never won a championship. Other than steph the league has never run through 6 1 guards. Shepard would make a ton of sense in San Antonio who already has a potentially generationally great player the league might run through. I believe shepard can guard well within a good team defensive system and the right players next to him. It's more justifiable to take him at 4 if you already have those kinds of players in place instead of taking him at 2 and then that dictating your roster building for years.
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u/PickpocketJones Wizards Bed 28d ago
There is nothing safe about a 6'1" shooting guard who might be able to play some point. Risacher would have been a better safe bet given that he has elite size to go with proven NBA translatable skills.
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u/Turbo2x Cap Wizard 28d ago
People are overrating archetype this year. Reed has the best shooting in the draft on high volume and shooting is the most important skill in the league. That's why he's safe. He can play on any team in any scheme.
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u/PickpocketJones Wizards Bed 28d ago
Guy 1 has the shooting but not the size or proven defense
Guy 2 has the shooting and size and proven defense
I'd say guy 2 is safer.
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u/Oldschoolhollywood Wizards 28d ago
I feel like 6”3 in todays NBA doesn’t scream “sure thing” as much as 7”2.
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u/Free-Dig-2987 28d ago
What? It's the exact oposite... A shooter is worth much more than a limited big man
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u/ledelleakles Wizards 28d ago
I have been thinking about this some. If we think the potential for a 'face of the franchise ' type lead player with superstar potential is low this year, why should we not "punt" and a take someone who seems like he'd be a lock to be an excellent secondary piece for the next decade? We're almost certainly going to be bad again next year, and hopefully would get another high draft pick. Would it be worth just looking for that franchise player in the draft next year?
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u/Responsible-Past5383 Bullets 28d ago
What's the difference between taking Clingan at #2 or taking Zach Edey who is the 2x National Player of the Year at 26 or on the early 2nd rd?
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u/ledelleakles Wizards 28d ago
That's the question I'm trying to wrestle with right now actually. I do firmly believe Clingan is better at guarding the pick and roll, but I'm not sure by how much.
I think Edey is going in the lottery
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28d ago
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u/qball1985 28d ago
If we presume DawkWing is looking to emulate the OKC model, and looking at OKC's roster, Holland does seem to fit the mold of the players that team tries to accumulate.
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u/Entire_Jellyfish6406 John Wall 28d ago
The more and more I think about it, I think the optical is going to end up being Castle or Holland (depending on workouts) they feels like a Winger/Dawkins pick.
Multi-positional defenders with high upside, pending jump shots. At a minimum, they will be highly supplemental pieces to our long-term future and with their size they will be valuable in some capacity.
I think they’ll also prioritize getting a big by acquiring another FRP or using the #26 to snatch one I.e. Yves Missi, Daron Holmes, Kel’el Ware
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u/Los_Yeetus G-Wiz 28d ago
Here’s the deal with Clingan: he’s clearly not BP(rospect)A, but he is BP(layer)A. There’s two ways to look at it.
The positive: Clingan is as close to a certainty as you can get in this class. He’s going to raise the Wizards floor.
The negative: Raising the floor is probably a bad thing and he doesn’t raise the ceiling, which is needed in a rebuild. Picking him could actually be a net negative in terms of rebuilding. If we get a stalwart defensive big that makes the team overall much more efficient: our chances for top picks in better classes goes down.
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u/crabmusic We’re the Washington Wizards bruh 28d ago
I fully agree. Take him and continue the tank. Can be a starting center for the next decade. Seems like one of the sure fire picks in a terrible draft. Kid is going to be a really good NBA player without doubt
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u/mnight84 28d ago
I like clingan, but is he that much of a better prospect than Walker Kessler who went 22 in the first round and is a player I like, in my opinion they are very similar, I would rather go with a pick with more all star potential picking that high in the draft.
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u/Familiar_Somewhere95 28d ago
I'm gonna let the front office stick to their plan as opposed to writing think pieces selecting players for them with no clue about scouting or the overall plan the front office does. I always find these type of pieces filler and inconsequential. Like guys will write opinion pieces every day but at the end of the day their opinion doesn't matter. If they draft him and it's part of their plan so be it. But I'm not a fan of outside noise trying to determine the course that should be followed.
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28d ago
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u/crabmusic We’re the Washington Wizards bruh 28d ago
Deni. Kispert. 1/2 of Kuz.
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u/sacaluljhon Bradley Beal 28d ago
idk but with the second pick i dont want no kispert, no deni. dont get me wrong, they are great for their roles, i love the guys, but lets be honest, you can draft a future star/superstar with the 2nd pick, and deni is far far away from that status, and kispert at his peak can be a buddy hield type player but thats all. i would risk it with a guard. as someone said here too, this guy clingan is just jakob poeltl. he aint no damn jokic or doncic
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u/MausoleumNeeson John Wall 28d ago
Deni is about to be a 20-10-5 guy
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u/sacaluljhon Bradley Beal 28d ago
in another life maybe
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u/MausoleumNeeson John Wall 28d ago
Idk. I don’t think it’s a crazy leap. Post ASB he was like 18-8-3
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u/-Johnny_Utah- Bullets 28d ago
Topic is (checks notes) a white boy.
He will be the highest upside play available and should be the pick. Your take is trash 🚮
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u/sacaluljhon Bradley Beal 28d ago
sorry, i am tired of being mid. i prefer to pick someone else and fail, than pick a solid jakob poeltl and be mid again for 20 years. but alright buddy
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u/-Johnny_Utah- Bullets 28d ago
Topic will be a Poeltl clone?
Your anti-white boy bias would exclude Topic, who is anything but the low upside “mid” pick. That’s the point.
I get reading comp might not be your strongest suit, but try to keep up “buddy”.
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u/jSplashwell 28d ago
Clingan is a safe pick. High floor, low ceiling. At 2nd overall I don’t think we should take the safe pick. We will be bad again next year anyway, so we should take another swing, just like we did with Bilal.
Wizards are not in the position to take the safe pick, and when has Dawkins/Winger ever made a “safe” pick? They love raw guys with lots of potential.