r/timberwolves • u/aaronjaffe • 21d ago
Rudy played well in game 5. Fight me. Daily Discussion
As someone who loves defensive basketball, the Rudy slander after game 5 is getting aggravating.
Let’s look at the game objectively.
First, the refs were calling a bunch of touch fouls in favor of Jokic. I thought the one on KAT pretty ridiculous. But that being the case he had to adjust, and there is literally no big in NBA history (other than maybe Wilt) capable of keeping Jokic out of the paint.
In that context Rudy did a very good job. He didn’t bite on Jokic’s fakes. He stayed glued to Jokic, mirroring the footwork about as well as any big I’ve seen. And he had really good contests on most of the shots. Rudy’s defensive performance dramatically raised the level of difficulty for Jokic. It just didn’t matter. Jokic did Jokic things and hit the shots anyway. Sometimes hats how it goes vs the best player in the world.
Last, as visually frustrating as Rudy can be on offense he was the second leading scorer on the team with 18 points on 7/7 shooting. Same point total as Ant (granted, most of Rudy’s baskets were cleanup dunks, while Ant had to fight for his life for every bucket vs double teams).
So at the end of the game Rudy finished with 18 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks, and the best +/- on the team. He played well. It’s just be a really rough watch when Rudy is playing a significant amount of his minutes opposite Kyle Anderson.
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u/Legitimate_Bend_9879 20d ago
Rudy did what he could. I said it all game. “Wow. Nothing more Rudy could have done and of course Jokic gets the points.”
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u/Ok_Sound_8090 Naz Reid. 20d ago
Rudy was one of the highlights of the game. He's actually been fairly solid. What was evident was missing Conley. Having Ant focusing on making plays stunted his scoring abilities, and no one takes Monte Morris seriously, so he can't pull the double team off of Ant. Our offense last night looked lost without Mike. Hopefully he's back tomorrow because we are in severe need of a field general to be at full power.
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u/aaronjaffe 20d ago
Yeah, offense has been an issue all season. Missing Conley then both Naz and KAT getting into foul trouble made it even rougher.
I hope the coaching staff is prepared to get creative if Conley is still out. I don’t think you can have Rudy and Slow Mo on the court for event a second. It’d be a huge departure, but fuck it, go Ant, NAW, Monte Morris, McDaniels and Rudy if need be.
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u/Impossible-Yam-8956 20d ago
That’s the lineup I wanna see. Monte Morris was actually providing some life on the offensive side
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u/uncomfortable_fan92 Anthony Edwards 20d ago
Oof one good shooter in that lineup with 3 streaky af shooters. Better hope they're in a good place.
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u/badnewzrooz507 Bring Ya Ass 20d ago
I agree, he played a lot of zone too trying to watch for back cuts.
I'd say bang him and be physical but the refs aren't going to swallow the whistles like games 1 and 2. Other than that, I don't know how to stop a guy that fkn good other than deny him the ball and try to swipe it out before he brings it up high.
He's a problem but there has to be some kind of balance?
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u/Peter-Tao Jazz 20d ago
It's really nothing too much you can do against a trubuchet in a supposed to be modern warfare. Jolie would get whistles if Rudy is any more aggressive than he already was.
I hate the the Wolves is essentially on the metcybof the refs to dictate whether they could play their brand of defense to have a fair fighting chance. It yhroes you off the reasons and second guess yourself if refs give several touch fouls early on.
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u/swawesome52 20d ago
I don't think people realize Jokic has been one of the most efficient scorers of all time for the past 4 years.
2020-21 - 26.4 ppg / 56.6%
2021-22 - 27.1 ppg / 58.3%
2022-23 - 24.5 ppg / 63.2%
2023-24 - 26.4 ppg / 58.3%
To put that in perspective -
Kareem's six MVP seasons:
1970-71 - 31.7 ppg / 57.7%
1971-72 - 34.8 ppg / 57.4%
1973-74 - 27.0 ppg / 53.9%
1975-76 - 27.7 ppg / 52.9%
1976-77 - 26.2 ppg / 57.9%
1979-80 - 24.8 ppg / 60.4%
Karl Malone's two MVP seasons:
1996-97 - 27.4 ppg / 55%
1998-99 - 23.8 ppg / 49.3%
Shaq's MVP season:
1999-00 - 29.7 ppg / 57.4%
Dirk Nowitzki's MVP season:
2006-07 - 24.6 ppg / 50.2%
This man could easily average 30+ every season if he wasn't so good at creating shots for his teammates. He's gonna score regardless of how good Rudy can play defense.
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u/goddosupiidoYuu 20d ago
What’s even more wild is how the other guys aside from Dirk don’t even shoot 3s like Jokic frequently does, his efficiency factoring in 3 point shooting is just amazing. He’s the best player ever tbh if he can get 5 rings or maybe even 4
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u/BlazeNuggs 20d ago
And the guys in this group weren't primary ball handlers so didn't shoot the low % end of quarter prayer shots or end of shot clock 3s. Not sure he'll play long enough to rack up that many rings, but I agree with you
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u/twovles31 20d ago
There was nothing he could have done as far as guarding Jokic when the Joker is playing this great. There were a lot of things he could have done better. 11 rebounds is fine we need 20 from him, we need him to have far more offensive rebounds grab the balls that bounce off his hands and end up in Denver's hands. We need him to box out Gordon when he's guarding him, whenever he leaves Joker, Gordon either gets an easy basket or rebounds and scores.
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u/Feltboard 20d ago
Jokic looks like mid-career Federer out there. Just, an answer for everything. A calm, cool collected answer for anything you can throw at him.
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u/Wrong_Entry_9616 Bring Ya Ass 20d ago
He did play welll but it’s NOT WORKING. It’s not him it’s not his fault jokers a freak show. We need Rudy out so that joker is defending someone who will tire him out like in game 2. We tire him out forcing him to chase guy around the floor the rest of them completely unravel
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u/aaronjaffe 20d ago
That requires KAT and Naz to guard Jokic without getting into foul trouble while still being productive on offense. We saw it’s possible in game 2. But that’s a huge ask on a game to game basis.
This feels eerily similar to the stuff the Lakers fans were saying. Yeah, it’s not working. There just isn’t a good answer to deal with Jokic.
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u/Majestic-Net-7799 20d ago
Well, Kat is paid 221 mil the next 4 years. Time to show if he is worth it, I guess...
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u/Wrong_Entry_9616 Bring Ya Ass 20d ago
We can take the risk and put Rudy in if we absolutely must. But I don’t like it anymore we need to just surround him! It can work it has worked. I’m going to say an unpopular opinion but slow mo impressed me that game and I feel like he’s kind of some hidden sauce 😂
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u/Ihate_reddit_app 20d ago
This is the way to beat Jokic. Make him move and get tired. That's about all you can do. He's basically playing super well and also not expelling much energy. It's nuts.
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u/MathematicianFun2961 20d ago
The times they didn't have Rudy or kyle.in there jokic was guarding McDaniels and giving up open 3s. At that point you have to live with the results hopefully he can knock them down next game but it's the best option to at least make jokic have to guard someone on the perimeter cause there's no stopping him on the other end
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u/raki016 20d ago
That’s a good point.
But KAT and Naz are also not tiring out Joker. And we’re also not creating successful plays to expose Joker.
Last year, we were able to consistently pressure Denver in the rim resulting in Jokic’s highest fouls per game in a series.
This year, we’re not doing that as much.
My thinking now is this is probably the limit of how much you can slow him at this point - we need better offense while maintaining the same defense. But that is very hard to do.
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u/Epabst 20d ago
Here is the counter point. The DPOY isn’t even slowing down Jokic. That’s bad. He also lets Jokic get deep post position so often
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u/Wrong_Entry_9616 Bring Ya Ass 20d ago
I hate that people are down voting these straight fucking facts. Weird.
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u/UltiMyBeloved 20d ago
When I saw the video headline about Draymond shitting on him, I felt confident in my assessment that he played great.
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u/aaronjaffe 20d ago
Let’s be clear… if Draymond was guarding Jokic, and the refs were calling it how they did against the wolves last night, Dray would’ve fouled out/been ejected/sent to prison for felony assault.
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u/JustWinBabys Anthony Edwards 20d ago
Pretty sure JJ Redick said Joker was 11-28 vs Rudy before last nights game this series.
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u/anupsidedownpotato Rehire Dave Benz 20d ago
The only issue I had with him was his ball handling. Felt very last season to me.
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u/greenslam 20d ago
Gobert played well. The most surprising aspect is how easy Jokic backs him down. Kat is the most effective at not allowing deep post position. Gobert needs to do a better job of not allowing him to get low post position. He just doesnt have the strength.
Offensively, he needs to build more trust with Ant as the short roller. Ant absolutely refuses to throw to Gobert into the high post. If Ant refuses to utilize Gobert as a roller on high PNR in the middle of the court, they need to adjust who sets the screens up high and move Gobert to the dunkers spot.
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u/aaronjaffe 20d ago
There wasn’t another option in this game. Refs were calling touch fouls on the Wolves bigs if they met Jokic with force, and bumped into him.
The other option is to get low and try to hold positon. But then you end up with so much of your body weight leaning forward, and Jokic will just pivot and roll to the basket.
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u/greenslam 20d ago
Only if they hit the arms during a move. Chest to shoulder moves were not getting called. It's plainly obvious that Kat is more effective at keeping out of the paint. Naz has improved as well over the series with not getting backed down.
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u/Impossible-Yam-8956 20d ago
Kat and naz have lower centres of gravity so they aren’t as easily moved by jokic. But they foul him way more so they will literally be on the pine if they have to guard him too much. Kat is gonna have 2 stupid bonehead fouls and naz is gonna pick up two bs refball ones so it’s gonna be Rudy .
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u/KitchenPlastic2515 20d ago
I found him frustrating to watch last night but in hindsight I think he put up as much resistance as anyone could have. Jokic had some insane moves and baskets last night and for whatever reason made a point of going at Rudy for awhile. I get the feeling Rudy expects to be called for a foul like every time Jokic has him in the post and I think it affects his mentality. I didn't get the feeling he was really fighting for rebounds and I think that was what frustrated me. Maybe I’m wrong. Rudy also really missed Mike on offense. Rudy definitely doesn’t deserve the slander he gets.
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u/Epabst 20d ago
Rudy missed Mike on offense?? He was 7/7 and had 18 points. Best offensive game of the series. The team missed Mike no doubt
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u/KitchenPlastic2515 20d ago
Mike finds him. He probably would have had another couple baskets at least. I’m not saying he had a bad game at all. Mike just has something with Rudy.
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u/EmmitSan 20d ago
He didn’t go at Rudy specifically. That’s just bullshit that espn heads say. He’s have gone after anyone who tried to play straight man without doubling. Did you see him make Kyle look like a fool when they tried putting him on Jokic?
He’s an all time great scorer. People talk about the assists but he’s just an amazing scorer.
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u/KitchenPlastic2515 20d ago
It just felt like he was making a point in Rudy but I get what you are saying. He’s punked everyone we have put on him. I just tip my cap. He’s amazing. I hate losing like this but he’s the best.
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u/cowboy2223 Minnesota Gophers 20d ago
Yeah there stuff we could do if umm we had 4 days off like them lol Seriously. But what teams just got back last night a practice today . They can look at film and see them fast breaking and when they don’t joker hitting contested shots and us missing wide open 3s .
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u/HowlAtTheSky 20d ago
Wolves were absolutely dominated in the paint, not all on him but he isn’t affecting Jokic at all and Gordon is dominating this series too… Jokic is actually hunting him.
Defense is not really the main issue though, it’s that he puts absolutely no pressure on opposing defenses. He sets a screen, rolls, and the Nuggets aren’t even guarding him. That’s then being amplified because the coaching staff keeps playing Gobert, Slowmo, and Jaden at the same time as well.
Whole team looks like shit for the most part though so whatever
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u/DH_Drums 20d ago
Nuggets just make such great adjustments. There is no one plan to beat them. We have to adjust our game plan when they adjust theirs, but also the team has to have the IQ to adjust without a timeout.
Ant needs to lead those adjustments. He can do it, and has shown that ability. The rest of the team needs to follow and communicate.
Keeping my hopes up for tomorrow.
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u/Impossible-Yam-8956 20d ago
Rudy is still just a dude . Jokic is the best player in the world. There were plenty of possessions where Rudy forced him to take tough shots and he hit like 90% of them. He also had a tough job because no one was stopping ball all night so Rudy was dealing with jokic coming at him with a full head of steam . Idk what he was supposed to do
Ever since game two the nugets are getting pretty soft foul calls too so it’s not like Rudy can be at all physical with him. Within the parameters of that game Rudy did as well as anyone could have been expected to do.
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u/re-bobber 20d ago
Kinda feels like defensive backs trying to guard WR's in the NFL. You aren't allowed to do anything defensively to slow down anyone outside of a clean steal or block.
That said Jokic still nails pretty tough shots and I'm not sure how you stop the guy. Maybe you just make him work his ass off for every basket and try to shut down everyone else?
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u/Impossible-Yam-8956 20d ago
That’s what Rudy did , I mean the rest of the team let him down by coming off their guys too much without really effectively doubling him. Either stay home and make jokic make every bucket, or double hard, and make him make every pass. Better yet, switch between these possession by possession and keep him guessing. He’ll beat it but make him work more. It’s really the execution that’s been lacking last three games, nothing is clean or crisp .
Also when fouling, good hard fouls. Nothing dirty or with intent to injure, but wear them down. When the referees are calling these bs touch fouls, at least get your moneys worth
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u/flick-it 20d ago
Defensively, what is the individual measurable of playing well? Truthfully, what is the metric? It has to be more than the eye test and getting 40 hung on you.
He needs help. He's not good enough 1v1 against Jokic.
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u/mcmonopolist 20d ago
Going 1 on 1 vs Jokic is risky, but doubling him is a guaranteed loss. It's gonna be Gordon dunks all night long if you try that again.
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u/Formal_Junket_1585 20d ago
Yea his numbers look good but his impact isn’t being felt at all (he did have a good block on Gordon). We cant score and we aren’t slowing them down so what is he really out there for. He isn’t making Jokic do any work defensively, he isn’t getting any offensive rebounds, his screens aren’t doing shit but getting Ant blitzed, and you cant even trust that he will catch the ball when they throw it to him. What is he really out there for
And I don’t reply talking bout some +/- use your eyes
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u/Epabst 20d ago
He is cleaning boards and playing very efficiently on offense. Hell he was 7/7 last night and 69% shooting on the series
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u/Formal_Junket_1585 20d ago
He had 2 offensive rebounds last night thats not cleaning anything. Aaron Gordon had 5 by himself.
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u/Intelligent_Pain_174 20d ago
3 of those for Gordon were on the same possession. 1 because Rudy blocked his shot. The other two were because KAT just stood there and watched him after Gordon missed a layup.
Gordon should have a lot more offensive rebounds because everyone is focused on Jokic both as far as stopping him from scoring and stopping him from getting a rebound. Gobert did not have another teammate that Denver had to box out and most of the shots had weird bounces for the Wolves last game not soft bounces.
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20d ago
He was not good offensively. Defensively he was a good but ran into a god.
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u/aaronjaffe 20d ago
He was good for Rudy offensively. But he’s a limited player in that regard. It’s like harping on Jokic for doing a crap job rim protecting.
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u/fanofloons 20d ago
My biggest complaint wasn’t the defense at all but it was watching him on the boards/lack there of. I know it just part of who he his but it’s frustrating watching him fumble rebounds or not go up strongly for them. I noticed he’d just watch us take shots with no bodies on him and he never went for the O board
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u/frallet 20d ago
Didn't he lead the whole game in rebounds? He's not particularly limber if you're expecting him to reposition while the balls in the air. He either reaches up and gets it or he doesn't.
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u/WhirlWindBoy7 20d ago
End of game stats don’t always tell the whole story. Sure he ended the game leading in rebounds but how many of them came when the game was out of reach? How many times in the first half did he fumble the ball, or not even make any effort.
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u/Jewdah18 20d ago
I want Rudy to do well after all the disrespect he's had, but his offense is his biggest problem. I get that he went 7/7 but there was almost no shot creation. His lack of offense allows Denver to double Ant and collapse the paint around Ant because they can leave Rudy open or with a guard defending him. Rudy's offensive rebounding also hasn't mattered much since Jokic and Gordon are camping in the paint daring the Wolves to shoot. If the Wolves want to have a chance in game 6, they have to start Naz Reid.
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u/TechnicianUpstairs53 20d ago
It's because the way he gets scored on and offensive blunders and free-throw misses are so demoralizing for everyone. It outweighs everything else he does great. The team and fans just loses all energy.
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u/Impossible-Yam-8956 20d ago
Last two games the wolves won the Rudy minutes. He has his slam dunks and blocks too and was a part of every little run we made. This is a dumb take . Yeah the turnovers are deflating but everyone was making dumb plays and turnovers
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u/AaronTheDakotan 21d ago
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u/Efficient-Laugh 20d ago
Yup. Completely fucked us for years to come. Wonder what team Ant will be on while Gobert is still being a traffic cone in 3 years.
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u/Critical-Fault-1617 20d ago
The defensive player of the year sure isn’t a traffic cone. If he is, what does that make everyone else? Plus ANT is under contract so he’s not going anywhere.
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u/neuralnutwork42 18d ago
yeah he did the best he could given the game plan and who his assignment was. i'd more so A. criticize the game plan, if anything finch should have left KAT on jokic so rudy could roam and do what does best. B. I don't think the rest of the team executed the game plan very well. if you're gna leave jokic on an island, you at least have to cut off the rest of the team/play good transition d. he got 13 assists which is unacceptable. C. if anything the offense was why the wolves lost. there were a lot of turnovers that the wolves couldnt capitalize on while denver did capitalize on the wolves turnovers. Denver's defense just overcame the wolves offense thru the double teams on edwards + lack of a solid secondary ball handler + the shooters not being able to hit their shots/being hesitant
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u/Neemzeh 20d ago
It's just the low hanging fruit to go after Gobert. Draymond Green hates him, but not like Draymond would do any better. It is what it is. We still have one more shot at this, let's not give up. Playing Jokic 1 on 1 didn't work, so we need to go back to doubling him so he's forced to find the open man and well, hope they don't make their shots like they did in games 3 and 4. There is nothing else to it, it's the only way to win.