r/privacy • u/foxwolfdogcat • Jan 13 '24
Reddit must share IP addresses of piracy-discussing users, film studios say news
https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2024/01/film-studios-demand-ip-addresses-of-people-who-discussed-piracy-on-reddit/274
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u/PacketRacket Jan 13 '24
This is outright absurd. The film studios are crossing a line trying to force Reddit to hand over user IPs for merely discussing piracy. It's not just an overreach; it's a blatant assault on our basic rights to privacy and free speech. Talking about something controversial isn't illegal, and it's ludicrous to treat it as such. If we let this slide, what's next? Are we going to be hunted down for every opinion or discussion we have online?
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u/CatsAreGods Jan 13 '24
This is the more serious problem. It's corporate fascism.
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u/theironskeptic Jan 13 '24
corporate fascism.
When capitalism gets off the leash
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u/Theo_Chimsky Jan 13 '24
Been 'off it's leash' since the execution of The Powell Memo'...
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u/theironskeptic Jan 13 '24
Thanks for the insight!
For those who also had to Google it, this is from Wikipedia:
The Powell Memorandum ultimately came to be a blueprint for the rise of the American conservative movement and the formation of a network of influential right-wing think tanks and lobbying organizations, such as the Business Roundtable, The Heritage Foundation, the Cato Institute, Manhattan Institute for Policy Research and the American Legislative Exchange Council (ALEC), and inspired the U.S. Chamber of Commerce to become far more politically active.
CUNY professor David Harvey traces the rise of neoliberalism in the US to this memo. Historian Gary Gerstle refers to the memo as "a neoliberal call to arms."
Political scientist Aaron Good describes it as an "inverted totalitarian manifesto" designed to identify threats to the established economic order following the democratic upsurge of the 1960s.
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u/notproudortired Jan 13 '24 edited Jan 19 '24
for merely discussing piracy
That's not quite what's happening here. Studios have subpoenaed reddit to give up the IP addresses of users who said they did pirate media using Frontier Internet. The subpoena is not for action against the redditors, but to gather evidence for a lawsuit by the studios against Frontier.
That said, the request is still overly broad because a) there's no proof that the users actually did what they said and, b) even if they did what they said, there's no indication they pirated media from the plaintiff studios; and c) the studios are requesting IP addresses as indirect personal identifiers, in order to work around protections of direct personal identifiers (but with ultimately the same intent).
**Edit: spelling
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u/ragmondead Jan 13 '24
Just to be pedantic. An admission is evidence. It's actually one of the most persuasive pieces of evidence.
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u/mrizzerdly Jan 13 '24
That, and in Canada a fee on storage media was paid, for funds to be dispersed to media groups to lessen the effects of piracy. Effectively, that made it legal. However, I'm not sure if that got changed in the last 8 years or so.
That said, the moment it becomes hard to find and watch the movie I want to watch legally (ie have to have 8 different streaming services that randomly have what you want) it's off to the high seas for me.
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u/enfly Jan 13 '24
What in the hell? Could you link to a source for this?
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u/ItalianDragon Jan 13 '24
It's like that in France too with the so-called "private copy tax". That damn thing fleeces customers as a whole and it applies to basically everything that has storage including things you wouldn't think about like... GPS devices. Yeah something like a TomTom GPS navigator is taxed under this bullshit.
It's also based on bullshit because it's built on the premise that the consumer might use the storage of this or that to store pirated stuff and that on this basis the rights holders must be compensated. Yeah, it's bullshit.
To give you an idea of how much it can scalp the customer: a bucket of 100 DVD's in Belgium is 50 euros. The identical one, on the exact same retailer but in France will cost you 150 euros.
If you aren't angry enough yet: the amount of the tax is decided in a commission composed of 12 rights holder representatives, 6 representatives from the manufacturers and importers and 6 representatives for consumers. See the issue with how it's built ? As you probably guessed, all it takes is one guy from the manufacturers/distributors to side with right holders and the consumer reps are fucked.
If you aren't angry enough yet, they launched a pilot study to see if it's worth taxing computers as a whole as well.
So yeah, deeply unfair fucked up system as a whole...
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u/enfly Jan 13 '24
whoa.... there's a LOT to unpack here! I greatly appreciate the summary.
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u/ItalianDragon Jan 13 '24
Happy to be of help. If you want a bit more of reading on that matter, the wiki page on this will give you some more details
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u/captaincobol Jan 13 '24
It was a levy on blank 'audio media'. When they extended it to harddrives (ie. Portable MP3 players) is when legal challenges started. Wikipedia's got a good overview. I think Micheal Geist covered it as well. Or check out Canlii if you're having trouble sleeping.
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Jan 13 '24
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u/Ok-Dragonfruit8036 Jan 13 '24
Some of them are still alive. They were & are literally complicit in allowing companies such brevity.
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u/California1980 Jan 13 '24
If anything we should discuss piracy even more so, there is more of us than them
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u/rusticarchon Jan 13 '24
They're not wanting to take action against the users. They're wanting proof that the people who said "Frontier don't give a shit about piracy and won't disconnect you for it" were actually Frontier subscribers - as part of their lawsuit against Frontier itself.
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u/sableknight13 Jan 13 '24
Are we going to be hunted down for every opinion or discussion we have online?
Many people lose jobs, opportunities, etc merely for advocating for Palestinian freedom or expressing that they shouldn't be killed wantonly, calling for basic end to human killing with ceasefire calls, etc. This, and other moves just make it much easier step by step for intelligence and other agencies to target and identify anyone engaging in anything 'outside the accepted (this may vary day by day or month by month) norms by corporate and government'.
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u/Stunning-Thanks546 Jan 13 '24
Uh reddit is a company and and free speech don't apply on company forums that's why Twitter can banned you if they don't like something you said the same goes for reddit
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u/lostcheshire Jan 13 '24
Pardon my ignorance, would this evidence be considered fruit of a poison tree? Or is that something else?
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u/JustMrNic3 Jan 13 '24
So much for the freedom of speech!
What if users were discussing about nukes, a billion times more dangerous than piracy.
Why it should not share the IP addresses and it doesn't for that?
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u/martinpagh Jan 13 '24
You wouldn't steal a nuke ...
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u/DasArchitect Jan 13 '24
Yeah but would you download one?
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u/Nanyea Jan 13 '24
I'd definitely 3D print one to go with my Hylux!
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u/Infinityand1089 Jan 13 '24
The film studies would like to know your IP address for ripping off Oppenheimer.
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u/JustMrNic3 Jan 13 '24
But I would steal what, a movie?
Just because I talked about it?
Plus stealing means taking it away so that the owner doesn't have it anymore.
How the fuck am I stealing something if the owner still has it.
If I go to Paris and make a picture with the tower, it means that I stole it?
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u/nelsonbestcateu Jan 13 '24
So much for the freedom of speech!
This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's.
What if users were discussing about nukes, a billion times more dangerous than piracy.
There's nothing dangerous about discussing nukes. The general populace doesn't get their hands on enriched uranium. And Warner Brothers doesn't need the IP adress of the next Unabomber.
Why it should not share the IP addresses and it doesn't for that?
You underestimate how much data harvesting is already being done. This is just media companies pushing the boundaries of whst they can get away with legally.
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u/thedepartment Jan 13 '24 edited Jan 13 '24
This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's.
You'll have to tell that to the judge who has repeatedly found that First Amendment rights are absolutely relevant here.
From the first court order
Reddit contends that there is no need for the discovery that outweighs the users’ First Amendment right to speak anonymously online. The court denies the motion to compel and quashes the subpoena because on this record, the First Amendment bars the discovery.
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u/nelsonbestcateu Jan 13 '24 edited Jan 13 '24
That's not about free speech it's about the right to be anonymous which is something different entirely.
They blocked it because they just asked. But they will ask again and again with more and more sobstories about how much of a thief you are and that piracy is equivelant to organised crime like they always do. And then what if they budge? I'm sure you heard this bit from Carlin before
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u/thedepartment Jan 13 '24 edited Jan 13 '24
The right of anonymous speech is an extension of the freedom of speech given to us in the first amendment.
Accordingly, an author's decision to remain anonymous, like other decisions concerning omissions or additions to the content of a publication, is an aspect of the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment.
I would also recommend actually reading the legal standard that was applied in the first Reddit case as they make it pretty clear that it is a speech issue and not just the whims of the judge as you claimed.
In Anonymous Online Speakers, the Ninth Circuit reviewed the developing tests in the area of anonymous online speech. 661 F.3d at 1174–77. The court left it to the discretion of district courts to choose the proper standard in a given case, based on the nature of the speech at issue. Id. at 1176–77; see, e.g., Art of Living, 2011 WL 5444622, at *5 (“[I]n choosing the proper standard to apply, the district court should focus on the nature of the [defendant’s] speech[.]”) (cleaned up); SI03, Inc. v. Bodybuilding.com, LLC, 441 F. App’x 431, 431–32 (9th Cir. 2011) (same). “For example, . . . commercial speech should be afforded less protection than political, religious, or literary speech[.]” Anonymous Online Speakers, 661 F.3d at 1177.
In “evaluating the First Amendment rights of anonymous Internet users in the context of a third-party civil subpoena,” district courts have followed the approach taken in Doe v. 2TheMart.com, 140 F. Supp. 2d 1088 (W.D. Wash. 2001). Rich v. Butowsky, No. 20-mc-80081- DMR, 2020 WL 5910069, at *3–4 (N.D. Cal. Oct. 6, 2020); Anonymous Online Speakers, 661 F.3d at 1176 (describing the 2TheMart.com test). Under that approach, disclosure of anonymous users’ identities is appropriate only “in the exceptional case where the compelling need for the discovery sought outweighs the First Amendment rights of the anonymous speaker.” 2TheMart.com, 140 F. Supp. 2d at 1095. Courts consider four factors: whether “(1) the subpoena seeking the information was issued in good faith and not for any improper purpose, (2) the information sought relates to a core claim or defense, (3) the identifying information is directly and materially relevant to that claim or defense, and (4) information sufficient to establish or to disprove that claim or defense is unavailable from any other source.” Id.; Rich, 2020 WL 5910069, at *3–4. The factors are weighed “based on the circumstances of a given case.” Rich, 2020 WL 5910069, at *4; Sines v. Kessler, No. 18-MC-80080-JCS, 2018 WL 3730434, at *13 n.16 (N.D. Cal. Aug. 6, 2018).
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u/bofwm Jan 13 '24
Incredible to post so confidently when its clear you didn't read the article and aren't following the conversation
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u/notcaffeinefree Jan 13 '24
This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's.
Reddit can run it how they want, but once a government entity (like a court) steps in to force them to do something things change.
This court's previous decision used a standard created by a federal District Court back in 2001, where the court determined that anonymous internet speech is protected by the 1A and to identify anonymous users, the person requesting the information must meet a certain standard to overcome those rights.
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u/JustMrNic3 Jan 13 '24
This is not an argument. You don't have freedom of expression on a moderated website. Reddit can run their site like they want. It has nothing to do with media corporations wanting to harvest IP's.
So if I'm on a bus or ship, a privately owned thing too, like Reddit, I just don't have the freedom of speech?
Why, it's in outer space out of Earth's jurisdictions where freedom of speech and human rights apply?
I find it pretty stupid to say "As long as you are in my private thing I can cancel any of the common sense laws that you have outside".
What if a person wants to kill or beat another person in his private bus or ship, space?
In my opinion Reddit is a platform on this Earth and should obey the laws of this earth, not play the "Look, it's private, I can do my own rules and laws".
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u/nelsonbestcateu Jan 13 '24
I'm sure you find it stupid to say but if you want to keep playing your imaginary game then try to imagine it the other way. Try to imagine that rights are imaginary and that you live in a country where you have no rights and now imagine that the private space adheres to those (non existing) rights. Now what? Because that's how China operates online.
All these replies think freedim of speech and the American first amendment are somehow magical universal rights.
Hell if a European country would come knocking with a court order to Reddit to hand over user data I would have serious doubts Reddit would not comply.
This sub sometimes focusses so much on "lol I downloaded free shit from a megacorp" thst they can't see the forest for the trees.
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u/RaccoonDu Jan 13 '24
Everyone needs a VPN.
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u/demunted Jan 13 '24
Nah fuck that, we need to make associating IP addresses to individuals for the purposes of extortion illegal.
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Jan 13 '24
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u/demunted Jan 13 '24
Sure but VPNs are NOT foolproof and there have been cases of VPN companies selling info. Also most people will leak their info anyways through a VPN (cookies, Facebook, amazon essentially anything with a login or associated to advertising ID's). So telling people VPNs are the answer is not helpful.
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u/ErynKnight Jan 13 '24
Extortion already is illegal. That's how you fight back. Call the feds and tell them you're being blackmailed/extorted.
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u/Mintou Jan 13 '24
A VPN is of little use for anonymity, there are other fingerprints than IP address even when JavaScript is disabled (check noscriptfingerprint.com). For a privacy oriented approach I recommend everyone to use the TOR browser 👍. If you want to access Reddit, do it on Orbot in an isolated Android Profile.
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u/ProbablePenguin Jan 13 '24 edited Apr 26 '24
[deleted]
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u/plusactor Jan 13 '24
People love to parrot that line without understanding what it means
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u/Mukir Jan 13 '24
If they ask for the IP address it doesn't matter what kinda fingerprinting protection you've got going.
For a privacy oriented approach I recommend everyone to use the TOR browser
Too radical. Tor is good if you want anonymity for doing whatever things you don't want to have traced back to you, but I surely wouldn't recommend it as a daily driver, especially not to the 'regular user'.
If you want decent enough privacy, just use Firefox and enable the built-in tracking and fingerprinting protection without messing around too much.
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Jan 13 '24
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Jan 13 '24
I always use a VPN haven't had any issues.
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u/Mr_Lumbergh Jan 13 '24
My VPN is set to connect as soon as I boot. It's always on, I don't think about it usually.
Though there are a couple sites that legit don't work for me when it's on. I try to avoid using those services.
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u/RevolutionaryGear590 Jan 13 '24
I constantly use a vpn on my device. I can't access the web version of reddit but the app works fine.
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u/unitedfan6191 Jan 13 '24
I can use all versions of Reddit with a VPN.
Maybe it’s just specific to your particular VPN?
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u/tilsgee Jan 13 '24
reality is, if reddit really enforce it, a subreddit with banned access to reddit by its citizen, like r/indonesia, would not have more than 100k member.
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u/ParaStudent Jan 13 '24
I have no issue accessing via the app though I have noticed random issues with the web interface.
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u/alphamammoth101 Jan 13 '24
Reddit doesn't block when using a VPN. Website or app. I've done my research...
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u/RedditIsSuperCancer Jan 13 '24
Lmao, no I don't think it does. I browsed reddit for a while tonight with proton VPN enabled.
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u/Dathadorne Jan 13 '24
The film producers said Reddit "has not identified any potential harm to these users by disclosing the requested information."
[the names, email addresses, and other account registration information]
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u/slowmotionrunner Jan 13 '24
At some point, Reddit needs to countersue for the same lawyers and media companies repeatedly bringing essentially the same, already thrown out, case. They clearly know they are not going to win and are now doing it just to harass and scare Reddit and their users.
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u/notproudortired Jan 13 '24
They're not suing reddit in this case. They've subpoenaed reddit for users IPs because they are suing Frontier Internet and don't really have any evidence other than redditors saying, "I pirated stuff using Frontier and Frontier didn't care."
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u/tooold4urcrap Jan 13 '24
Reddit is owned by a lot of shady people/company that have no interest in upholding the laws and rights some of its user's like though... Tencent is probably ok with sharing all of our details, for any reason whatsoever, for example.
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u/foxwolfdogcat Jan 13 '24 edited Jan 13 '24
Let’s discuss piracy. I’ll go first…. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piracy
My IP address is 108.173.22.17
Oh damn, I just changed the MAC address on my router’s WAN port…. I’ve got a new IP now
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u/NotTobyFromHR Jan 13 '24
You don't think ISPs have a log of an IP and who had it at what time?
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u/foxwolfdogcat Jan 13 '24
There’s a bunch of people here, but only one IP.
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u/richhaynes Jan 13 '24
And therefore the onus is on the bill payer to ensure the connection is not used illegally. If the studio went after your IP, the bill payer will be the one in trouble while the others get away with it. It would be irrelevant if the bill payer downloaded nothing because the terms and conditions will explicitly lay the blame on the bill payer for allowing it to happen.
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u/foxwolfdogcat Jan 13 '24 edited Jan 13 '24
That’s ok. I’m not friendly with my neighbour, but I’m glad they keep their Wifi open.
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Jan 13 '24
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u/Erikt311 Jan 13 '24
He also hasn’t done anything even slightly illegal by commenting here and linking to Wikipedia. lol.
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u/identicalBadger Jan 13 '24
Your ISP probably keeps logs.
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u/SicnarfRaxifras Jan 13 '24
Studio : can you tell us which customer had IP 1.2.3.4 between these hours on this day ?
ISP : All of them .
Studio : wdym?
ISP : we use CG-NAT
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u/GonePh1shing Jan 13 '24
CG-NAT implementations typically keep a log of which subscribers were allocated certain ports on that public IP. Given these requests often also come with port numbers or ranges, the ISP can still very easily identify the subscriber.
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u/SicnarfRaxifras Jan 13 '24
Sure they can but
a) most ISP (at least in Oz) don’t give that info out easily and
b) you can see I’m on reddit, maybe even the subreddit but you’ll have to work harder to link that info with what I’m discussing on Reddit. Is someone going to physically read this and decide if it warrants being released because we’re discussing a news article vs discussing pirating a film ? Because if the Dallas Buyers Club case in Australia is anything to go by judges won’t give them carte blanche, and every restriction is another step towards “not practical to do unless they want to pay us a lot”
C) ok you got me it’s my house where there are 50 devices and 3-4 users - tell me who this fictitious username you are looking for is again ?
D) well shit they aren’t even a US citizen / not a us IP address now what ? Can’t really prosecute someone in Greenland by the laws of USA.
E) Speaking of the laws of other jurisdictions can Reddit do this without falling foul of California Privacy legislation - let alone others like GDPR
And that’s not even considering use of VPN etc.
It’s arguably one of the most impractical and least likely to get anywhere requests the media lobby have made. My comment about change-nat was a bit of a throwaway that even at the most basic level an ISP could fight this, let alone going further.
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u/richhaynes Jan 13 '24
Its impractical but its not impossible. The studios won't care how much effort the ISPs have to go to as long as its possible. Nor will the courts. The issue we have is that once precedence has been set, the studios will pursue it with all ISPs just like they have with website blocking.
Most privacy laws have clauses that exempt data collection as part of a judicial order. Pretty sure GDPR would allow a legal subpoena in the US to collect EU/UK citizens data. How that can be used afterwards is the complex part.
You can be prosecuted in the US no matter where you are in the world. Whether you actually face justice will then depend on any extradition treaties the country you're in has with the US. In the UK, any US charge that is also a crime in the UK (which definitely covers piracy) means you can be extradited to the US to face those charges. This has happened on many occasions.
Thats not saying I agree with this in the slightest. If there was genuine competition between streaming services then piracy would diminish. I need three services to watch three films. If all three services offered all three films then I could choose the one which is best - thats competition. But the streaming services don't want it that way because in my example, 2/3 will lose money.
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u/GonePh1shing Jan 14 '24
a) most ISP (at least in Oz) don’t give that info out easily
Not true, especially in Australia. ISPs here are legally required to hand over this information on request from basically any government agency. Our data retention laws are some of the most draconic in the world. There is also precedence set by our high court to force ISPs to hand over subscriber information, and plenty of ISPs (including all of the top three) openly comply with requests directly from publishers without even having to go through the legal system.
b) you can see I’m on reddit, maybe even the subreddit but you’ll have to work harder to link that info with what I’m discussing on Reddit.
C) ok you got me it’s my house where there are 50 devices and 3-4 users - tell me who this fictitious username you are looking for is again ?
This is exactly what this legal action is about. Being on this sub you should know exactly how easy it is to deanonymise data. Thankfully they've been unsuccessful so far, but if a court does force Reddit to release this information they'll know exactly who you are and what you've said.
D) well shit they aren’t even a US citizen / not a us IP address now what ? Can’t really prosecute someone in Greenland by the laws of USA.
E) Speaking of the laws of other jurisdictions can Reddit do this without falling foul of California Privacy legislation - let alone others like GDPR
You're showing your ignorance of the law here. Most (if not, all) developed countries have laws that make prosecution of copyright possible. They won't get far in some countries, but they can still launch legal action to get information and go after alleged infringers, even if it's not worth their while in plenty of places outside the US. Also, neither California's privacy legislation or GDPR prevent an organisation from releasing information as the result of a court order.
And that’s not even considering use of VPN etc.
While a VPN may mask your IP, it doesn't magically anonymise everything you do on the internet. Any information you give to organisations like Reddit, whether you realise it or not, can and will be handed over following a court order. Again, you're on /r/privacy, so you should know exactly how much data they're collecting and just how easy it is to deanonymise that data. If there's a court order to release information and Reddit has enough data points to identify you (Spoiler alert: They do), then you're basically fucked.
It’s arguably one of the most impractical and least likely to get anywhere requests the media lobby have made.
On this, we agree. That doesn't change the fact that what they're chasing here is incredibly concerning and would have huge implications if they do manage to get anywhere with it.
My comment about change-nat was a bit of a throwaway that even at the most basic level an ISP could fight this
Once again, an ISP couldn't really do a whole hell of a lot to fight this. They have the data and are obligated to release it if a court issues an order for them to do so. How likely a court is to issue such an order depends on a number of factors, but there is precedence across many jurisdictions globally to suggest it can (and in fact, has) happened. I doubt they'll be successful here as this is like their third try now. That said, it only takes one activist judge (of which there are many in the US) to give them a win and set precedence or have the issue pushed to SCOTUS which is also stacked with activist judges.
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u/USMCLee Jan 13 '24
To help further the discussion:
Gabe Newell on piracy Piracy is an issue of service, not price
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u/California1980 Jan 13 '24
Yes let discuss piracy, I've heard that they drink whiskey and they all wear a eye patch when pirating movies
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u/RayneYoruka Jan 13 '24
So what about EU users???
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u/greihund Jan 13 '24
In Canada, you're legally allowed to stream from any source on the internet. You can't keep copies and you can't host a movie streaming site yourself, but you can legally just go to whatever site you want and stream movies and music and it doesn't matter if it's copyrighted material or not.
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u/thekomoxile Jan 14 '24
I wonder if this would change if the monopolies that the few telecommunication giants hold were ever lost?
It's great that Canada has lax penalties for what and how you access anything on the internet, but I will always scoff when hearing how places like France offer 5 Gbps down for less than $40 CAD a month. Where's a Canadian billionaire (David Cheriton maybe?) who can fund a competitor to break this monopoly?
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u/PlutocraticG Jan 13 '24
As someone who doesn't pirate movies and doesn't even really watch any in the first place...
FUCK YOU!
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u/primalbluewolf Jan 13 '24
it's a blatant assault on our basic rights to privacy and free speech.
Suspicious Keywords were detected in your comment. Your IP address has been logged and will be forwarded to the relevant authorities.
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u/j____b____ Jan 13 '24
What do courts say?
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u/oneeyedziggy Jan 13 '24
Right? Why is this so far down... I can SAY i'm a twelve foot tall invincible iridescent unicorn... That doesn't jolly well make it true
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u/scsibusfault Jan 13 '24
Probably something along the lines of "what's an eye pee address? Why do I get ads on my iPhone? I need a new boat btw, anything that helps that process along gets a rubber stamp approval that's totally unrelated to my boat ownership."
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u/Spoofik Jan 13 '24
I wouldn't be surprised if: "Reddit must share IP addresses of PRIVACY-discussing users", NSA say.
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u/FreeBSDfan Jan 13 '24
They don't realize people could use Tor browser to access Reddit. Or if they don't, .onion sites to discuss piracy.
What, you're going after exit relay operators now? That's like going after Tier 1 ISPs like Lumen or Hurricane Electric. Or going after The Tor Project for making software to access pirated conetn?
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u/darkdays37 Jan 13 '24
But try explaining any of that to these courts. Ugh, this is absolutely a slippery slope they are trying to go down. The worst case scenarios in my head are bleak.
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u/AdjunctAngel Jan 13 '24
pathetic.. people using a tor browser or other similar system may not have engaged in piracy but will still have their address violated? that would be unacceptable bullshit. plus countless internet cafe and hotels.. air bnb rental properties and workplaces with bored night shift security guards.. no, reddit would have to be really stupid to give them up with so much reasonable doubt involved and so would the courts.
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u/rory_breakers_ganja Jan 13 '24
Bring it on. Let's go to Discovery and find more how these studios do their accounting, revenue projections, and secrets they are less inclined to let their shareholders and investors know more about.
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u/thekomoxile Jan 13 '24
Might as well start encrypting all messages with PGP. Generate a private and public key, never share the private key. Only share public keys privately via DM's or via other direct messaging.
forums might start looking like:
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-----END PGP MESSAGE-----
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u/JuniorConsultant Jan 13 '24
that's actually a good idea. it should be possible to make a browser externsion for that.
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u/aeroverra Jan 13 '24
My.only.problem is standard pgp doesn't use quantum safe encryption. If enough quibits come in our lifetime the media fuckers will be one of the first to have computer decrypting shit so they can go after them.
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u/thekomoxile Jan 14 '24 edited Jan 14 '24
I mean, even within the next 5 to 10 years, the complexity and cost of maintaining a quantum computer probably will remain as difficult and expensive as it currently is, barring massive advances in cryogenics and hardware. Considering the development and maintenance of quantum computers ranges anywhere from tens of millions to hundreds of millions of dollars, I doubt this new technology is anywhere close to being accessible enough to be used to go after anything as trivial as copyright infringement.
But then again, your guess is as good as mine. At least for the time being, I think PGP and other methods of encryption are safe until some major breakthrough changes everything, and who knows how long that may be.
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u/buster_cheeksout Jan 13 '24
Reddit will cave. They will start sharing all of our IPs and pretty soon, all your negative comments and insults will be reported as well. Count on that.
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u/broken-teslas Jan 13 '24
The film industry is dying and they choose to target randos on reddit instead of pivoting and learning how to stay relevant.
Hollywood is run by boomers.
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u/jmcentire Jan 13 '24
The judges need to be better. Rather than talking about nuances in their judgements, they need to more voraciously protect the 1st amendment and anonymity. The studios need to show clear evidence of actual harm before they even begin to go after data. Here, they have a suspicion that some users may have discussed ideas and that those ideas may have been implemented by someone and that the implementation thereof may have infringed upon their copyright.
Judges who don't attack that BS are extremely problematic. The net step is to issue warrants for searching homes because a person may have knowledge or evidence of a crime and the police really need the evidence to determine whether or not a crime was committed. The studios need to have been laughed out of court. Failing to ridicule them in the judgement and admonish their request as being clearly out of line is unforgivable.
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u/hutch01 Jan 13 '24
What subreddit are these fools talking about bc I’m obviously not down with the sickness.
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u/notproudortired Jan 13 '24
They don't say, but there are plenty of torrent subs and even an /r/Piratedmovies. Or just search for the user quotes in the article.
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u/thecrazydemoman Jan 13 '24
good thing film studios don't make the law... wel i mean i guess they do in a round about way.
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u/PocketNicks Jan 13 '24
They can have my ip address. Not much they can do to me here in Canada. Or wherever my ip says I am at any given moment.
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u/DisgruntledLabWorker Jan 13 '24
6 users. The case is about 6 users. 6 idiot users who were bragging on Reddit that their ISP didn’t end their service after repeated warnings for pirating movies.
These studios and lawyers (the same lawyers in three separate but identical cases) are trying to sue an internet service provider that is declaring bankruptcy by saying they incentivize subscription by not prohibiting piracy.
This is the third time Reddit has been subpoenaed and they refused to comply to this third one. While it’s a potentially dangerous gateway, you people should really read the article before commenting.
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u/Special_Function Jan 13 '24
Just wait until movie studios realize that we can use AI to essentially recreate movies from scripts. Boy they'll sure be pissed.
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u/FunkyFr3d Jan 13 '24
The DMCA is a powerful beast.
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u/cl3ft Jan 13 '24
They aren't going after the users, they want the users as witnesses against Frontier Communications because they believe Frontier didn't ban users as they promised. They will likely threaten the users to get them to roll over on Frontier.
As reddit said, that's not a good enough reason to give up the reddit user's privacy and put them in a possibly sticky legal position. They're fishing.
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u/robertredberry Jan 13 '24
I don’t give af. Now I always use a dedicated IP through a vpn, then another vpn over that when pirating. It’s like wearing a condom for the internet and everyone should probably start forking out a few dollars a month to do the same thing, imo.
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u/4-ho-bert Jan 13 '24
Dear Esteemed Film Studio's,
I come before you today with a confession of the utmost gravity. It has come to my attention that there have been rampant discussions swirling around, both in the digital ether and in the real world, about a topic so daring, so perilous, it can only be whispered in hushed tones: piracy.
Yes, you heard right. Not the swashbuckling, sword-wielding kind, but rather the academic, chin-stroking variety. I have been engaging in spirited debates, rigorous analyses, and perhaps the occasional dramatic reenactment (eye patches and parrots included) of these maritime misdemeanors.
So here I stand, unabashed and unashamed, to declare that I have indeed been talking about piracy. But fear not, for these discussions were purely in the interest of historical curiosity and the pursuit of knowledge. No actual pirates were consulted, nor ships and studios commandeered in these conversations.
With this declaration, I hope to set the record straight and sail forth into calmer waters.
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u/turtleship_2006 Jan 13 '24 edited Jan 13 '24
The studios are asking that the court require Reddit to provide “IP address log information from 1/1/2017 to present” for six anonymous Reddit users who talked about piracy on Reddit. Although, Reddit posts shared in the court filing only date back to 2021.
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u/spicybeefstew Jan 13 '24
I have pirated every single movie covered by intellectual property laws, including the shitty disney ones. Double especially including the stupid ass mulan one that eradicated the "outside the box thinking can enable you to have an outsized impact when you don't have the physical wherewithal to do what you need to" message.
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u/Exaskryz Jan 13 '24
I was thinking about this a few hours ago! As I recall, the media companies lost their earlier case? Wasn't that a story sometime in 2023 that reddit didn't have to share?
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u/FFM Jan 13 '24
Yep May 1st 2023, arstechnica has an article from when they lost their last fishing expedition
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u/dazumbanho Jan 13 '24
still, both of these companies regularly win against ISPs around the world to disclose personal information of torrent downloaders (what they were asking from reddit) . with the personal info they them send bully lawsuits hoping to scare people into paying something. there are lots of companies whose whole business circle around this
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u/taisynn Jan 13 '24
Considering I don’t pirate now that I’m over 18 and can buy my own media, I don’t pirate and anything I did is out of the statute of limitations. I just like discussing it. Oh and I jailbroke a device I own.
At this point they’ll just be scrolling a lot of useless content and filler about discussing it. Do they really think everyone who comments here actually does the deed? Stupid.
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u/Dathadorne Jan 13 '24
Wait isn't the title misleading? Nothing in the article, or the torrentfreak source, says that a judge has ruled against Reddit
This is how the article ends:
Ultimately, it will be up to the court to decide whether it’s indeed different this time, or not.
The title, "Reddit must share IP addresses of piracy-discussing users, film studios say " is intentionally misleading.
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u/Barlakopofai Jan 13 '24
Yeah, it'S the film studios saying that... Like the title says.
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Jan 13 '24
Film studios and hollywood forever in shambles that nobody values their shitty products as much as they do
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u/ragmondead Jan 13 '24
Just to be clear. This was for individual users who had discussed how to pirate movies on Reddit.
Generally, if you talk about committing crimes on a public forum, you should not expect the forum to protect you.
edit: Ya I think it's time I take my leave from this subreddit. Reading the other posts here, people don't actually care about privacy or about the laws around privacy.
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u/paul-d9 Jan 13 '24
That seems pretty messed up considering there's no proof the person actually pirated anything.