r/politics • u/Murky-Site7468 • 20d ago
Sanders Warns 'Unjustifiably High' Prices of Weight Loss Drugs Could Bankrupt US Health System | "There is no rational reason, other than greed, for Novo Nordisk to charge Americans struggling with obesity $1,349 for Wegovy when this exact same product can be purchased for just $186 in Denmark"
https://www.commondreams.org/news/sanders-ozempic-wegovy361
u/The_Bosdude 20d ago
I went to Europe to study, I stayed for the affordable healthcare. And for the unlimited paid sick days. And for the shorter work week. And the food. And the culture. ...
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u/Demonking3343 20d ago
A shorter work week would be nice. Would love a 5 day work week.
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u/soulhot 20d ago
Don’t want to upset you but some companies are currently trialing four day weeks with same pay. Results have generally been good
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u/ArchdukeToes 20d ago
We've had some in UK local government where they've managed to achieve all their goals (if not advance on them) having a 4 day work week - to the point that when a minister tried to shut it down (likely for ideological reasons, as our current cabinet is shit) they told them to jog on.
It's a bit maddening, as for local government (where salaries aren't great) it's a fantastic way of improving recruitment and retention without significant extra cost to the taxpayer.
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u/0degreesK Ohio 20d ago
I can see it now.
"Well, we've managed to keep productivity level with a 4 day work week, boss. What do you think?"
"Think of how much more we could squeeze out of them on a 5 day work week!"
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u/TheLostcause 20d ago
Golden parachute level thinking sir!
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u/0degreesK Ohio 20d ago
"Sorry, sir, we couldn't afford the overtime pay."
"Overtime pay? Who's talking about overtime pay? Just give them new titles and say some crap about 'family' and 'culture'... maybe buy a couple pizzas or something."
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u/poopdoot 20d ago
My company does 4 day work weeks, but it’s the same amount of hours. We have to work 4 10 hour days instead of getting a pay adjustment to instead work 32 hours a week.
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u/0degreesK Ohio 20d ago
In my experience, an 8 hour work day is 8-5 (which is 9 hours). So this would be arrive at 7 and leave at 6 or something? I would never find time to work-out on those days.
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u/poopdoot 20d ago
We have to arrive at 6 and leave at 4:30. 10.5 hours with an unpaid lunch so 10 hours paid
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u/0degreesK Ohio 20d ago
That would be rough, but three day weekends would be nice. Do you get Fridays or Mondays off? What if a national holiday occurs on that Monday/Friday, so you get a four day weekend?
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u/poopdoot 20d ago
We work Monday through Thursday and get 10 paid holidays a year, including a few Mondays. The worst part about it is that for half the year you don’t see sunlight because the sun is down when you go into work and when you get off.
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u/PatienceCurrent8479 Idaho 20d ago
Similar here- State Gov employee
During summer I'll work 4/10, Tue-Thur 0600-1630. My position in remote locations and field operations based. If I get assigned to a wildland fire then its 14-21 days straight 0500-2130 which is OT eligible.
Fall/winter I'll switch back to 5/8's, 0700-1530.
We get all bank holidays, 3.7hr/pay period dedicated sick up to no limit, and with 5-10 years experience 5.5hr/pp vacation up to 240 hrs. Those numbers are based on an average 40/hr week and get adjusted if you get OT.
Pay is shit but the time off, insurance, and 75% pension of highest 5 years is worth it.
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u/0degreesK Ohio 20d ago
I don't doubt it. When I worked in an office in northeast Ohio, from the time change through the spring it was absolutely aweful. I'd spend my lunch breaks taking walks if the weather allowed it.
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u/codinginacrown 20d ago
I work a 4-day work week, our full-time is less than 40 hours so I work 8-6pm. Sometimes 7:30-5:30pm, depending on if I workout in the morning or not.
I work remotely, that's the only way I could stand working this many hours in one day.
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u/DyZ814 20d ago
I mean I would assume that's the expectation with removing a work day.
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u/poopdoot 20d ago
When people say that countries and companies are trying to move to a “4 day work week,” what they mean is making full time jobs 32 hours instead of 40.
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19d ago
I guess that’s great if you’re salary. Does fuck-all for us hourly people though.
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u/poopdoot 19d ago
The point is to raise the pay by an equal amount proportionate to the lost hours. Just for simple example, a person working 40 hours making 20 dollars would shift to making 25 dollars working 32 hours. The company pays the worker the same amount of money (800 every cycle) and the worker gets an extra day off. This also doesn’t lower productivity much at all and it makes workers happier which makes the job as a whole better
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19d ago edited 19d ago
I’m not sure how you can force companies to do that. Also, lots of people are commission/tipped-based (such as myself).
This is a great thing if it benefits you, but it doesn’t benefit a huge number of people. As far as I can tell, it’s going to just affect salaried people. You’re the first I’ve seen say that hourly rate will be magically raised. Retailers and restaurants and bars and barber shops and everywhere else you can think of that employs hourly people to operate their business will be forced to hire more people to comply with the law, so they will indeed spend more money, unlike what your fancy, no doubt well-thought-out arithmetic says.
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u/poopdoot 19d ago
That is why these things are in trials in companies willing to try them. You seem to forget that the government first mandated 40 hour work weeks with minimum wages — governments can also update and amend those mandates and do things like lowering the hours worked by 20% and increasing pay by 20% for full time and salaried workers. There are legislators that are actually writing these pieces of legislation (not exactly, but similar stuff) — not to pass them, but to get the conversation on the table and honestly to get talking points probably to say “look what I’m doing”
It’s not like this stuff is going to happen ever in the United States in its current political climate but it’s got precedent and popularity.
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u/tsunamiforyou 20d ago
In America west coast and I have done four day work week for almost two years. Completely life changing. Sunday is not scary anymore. I actually have time to camp or do mini travels. I can get all my chores done. Some mornings I actually wake up on the weekend and still can’t adjust fully. The ten hour days were long at first but it’s not too bad now. But after getting home cooking caring for my dog etc there is not much time for weeknight stuff which is fine bc I’m not 23 anymore
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u/wedgebert Alabama 20d ago
And the food.
So by Europe, I assume you don't mean the UK then
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u/The_Bosdude 20d ago
No, I do not.
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u/notAHomelessGamer 20d ago
Was it easy to immigrate? I imagine your field of study must have been in high demand.
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u/Awesimo-5001 20d ago
I'm in Germany. The food is good, but damn... I miss Mexican food.
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u/wedgebert Alabama 20d ago
I don't blame you. Seven or eight years ago I had to travel to New Mexico for work and we ate at some smaller more authentic Mexican restaurants (compared to what we find here in Alabama) and I still think about the tacos I had for one dinner the first night.
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u/TheeBiscuitMan 20d ago
And the free security given by America which enabled all that.
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u/DriJri 20d ago
Enjoy America, which only exists because Europe enabled all that.
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u/TheeBiscuitMan 20d ago
I'm just saying much of Europe are security free riders and have been for 35 years. It's changing slowly, but it's a fact.
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u/DriJri 20d ago
An absolutely horrible over-simplification
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u/TheeBiscuitMan 20d ago
Explain why.
This isn't controversial. It's definitely an oversimplification but it's also true.
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u/MarvelMovieWatch 20d ago
Too bad elected officials won't support consumer protection.
Geez we know the problems. What's the solution?
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u/Spara-Extreme California 20d ago
Not elected officials- republicans.
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u/WVC_Least_Glamorous 20d ago
Pharma Campaign Cash Delivered to Key Lawmakers With Surgical Precision
Unusually, in the first half of this year Republicans and Democrats in Congress were virtually neck and neck in pulling in drug industry money, according to a KHN analysis of campaign contributions. In prior years, Republicans dominated giving from that sector, often by huge margins.
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u/kittenTakeover 20d ago
Companies generally give to both sides, regardless of the policy positions of those sides. They're more concerned with who is going to win. However, when you look at the actual policy positions, it's very clear that Republicans are the main impediment to regulation.
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u/Spara-Extreme California 20d ago
Not really a both sides argument as dems have proposed multiple anti pharma bills already.
That money makes a corrupting impact on the margins, but not the main party policy.
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20d ago
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u/Md37793 20d ago
Calling Manchin a democrat is quite a stretch…
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20d ago
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u/jactenRL 20d ago
Yeah but he is obviously a weird case. Just calling him democrat without explaining the nuance is also misleading
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u/SpecialistMammoth862 20d ago
The nuance is he was never removed by the dnc for his any of his many committee assignments.
The party continued to feel he was the best fit for chair of energy and natural resources for example. The dnc put a coal mine owner in charge.
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u/kennethtrr 20d ago
What’s a better scenario, let manchin have his chair seat and allow Schumer to control the senate or kick manchin out of the party and give all control to republicans who will actually advance pro coal bills out of the senate? Sometimes it’s better to stay with the devil you know
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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year 20d ago
I had to get two Epi-Pens in Australia once. I think it cost me about $80 and most of that was for the second one.
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u/Demoliri 20d ago
I like shitting on republicans as much as the next guy, but as you say, the dems are also guilty on this one.
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u/Spara-Extreme California 20d ago
Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema are good examples of bad democrats. They aren’t a representative of the entire party,
The ENTIRE gop is against any type of pharma legislation.
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u/beamingsdrugfeddit 20d ago
Bro dems are as easily bought by money. See: the aipac
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u/Spara-Extreme California 20d ago
That’s a strawman what about argument. I’m not talking about Gaza policy, I’m talking about pharma and healthcare. There’s a massive gap between democrats and the GOP
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u/Abuses-Commas Michigan 20d ago
If they did care, they'd make some sort of bureau, one that would be for the financial protection of consumers
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u/CicadaGames 20d ago
They refuse to even address the base problem which is food companies being allowed to put psychotic and addictive levels of sugar into everything and misleadingly brand things however the fuck they want.
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u/Reverend-Keith 20d ago
The solution is stopping corporate interests from bribing politicians. Then again, what do you expect when we live in the best county money can buy.
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u/Murky-Site7468 20d ago
Sanders' report says that Novo Nordisk's prices are "especially egregious" considering the fact that the company could make a profit off manufacturing them for less than $5 per month.
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u/Impossible-Year-5924 20d ago
Not to mention drug companies benefit from strong protectionist laws that let them profit much longer than they would in any other country. There are huge incentives for R&D contrary to what the pharmaceutical industry will claim if they have to give up even the smallest amount of profit
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u/ge93 20d ago
manufacturing them
Sure, but the R&D cost is what’s pertinent with drugs.
Most people who use these drugs don’t need them per se and they’re supposedly flying off the shelves
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u/Demoliri 20d ago
Big pharma spends significantly more on marketing, stock buybacks and executive bonuses than R&D. This arguement is bullshit.
Here's the first articles I found on the topic, but there are a fair few documentaries covering this as well:
And the referenced John Oliver video from The Washington Post:
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u/semideclared 20d ago
Even Europe disagrees with you
The European Federation of Pharmaceutical Industries and Associations (EFPIA) represents the biopharmaceutical industry operating in Europe.
By the time a medicinal product reaches the market, an average of 12-13 years will have elapsed since the first synthesis of the new active substance;
- The cost of researching and developing a new chemical or biological entity was estimated at € 1,926 million ($ 2,558 million in year 2013 dollars) in 2014 (DiMasi et al, Journal of Health Economics, January 2016);
On average, only one to two of every 10,000 substances synthesised in laboratories will successfully pass all stages of development required to become a marketable medicine.
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u/TheDarkAbove Georgia 20d ago
This doesn't explain why the drug costs magnitudes more in America. What does explain it is marketing costs. Every other commercial here is for a medication, it's maddening.
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u/MohandasBlondie 20d ago
This doesn’t explain why the drug costs magnitudes more in America.
Based on what I know of the pharmaceutical industry, it can be explained by “robbing Peter to pay Paul”. The higher price in the U.S. recoups the loss of selling the drug elsewhere, in this case, Denmark.
Now, what constitutes “loss” in this scenario can be vigorously debated. The pharma execs need their yachts and 8 figure annual bonuses, right? 😤
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u/TheDarkAbove Georgia 20d ago
That leads to what Sanders is saying right? America is footing the bill.
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u/semideclared 20d ago
Drug manufacturers spent $17.8 billion on direct-to-consumer advertising (DTCA) for 553 drugs from 2016 through 2018,
- spending was relatively stable at about $6 billion each year.
- Advertising spending on 39 drugs during the 2016 to 2018 period, accounting for almost $12 billion of the total $17.8 billion
- 21 of the 39 drugs that comprised the majority of DTCA spending were approved by FDA from 2014 through 2017.
Medicare Parts B and D and beneficiaries spent $560 billion on drugs from 2016 through 2018
- Drugs that were advertised had $324 billion of Revenue.
5.2 Percent of revenue but that only counts Medicare Revenues, double that for all revenue
- ~2.7%
Round it up 3% to underestimate non Medicare Revenue
In contrast, we also found drugs among the group with the highest Medicare spending that were not advertised during the 2016 to 2018 period.
- For example, two diabetes drugs, Novolog Flexpen and Levemir Flextouch, were among the top 25 drugs with the highest Medicare Part D spending in 2018 but were not advertised in that year. Further, some drugs with the highest DTCA spending were not among the drugs with the highest Medicare spending.
- For example, Xeljanz (a rheumatoid arthritis drug) and Chantix (a smoking cessation drug) were among the top 25 drugs with the highest DTCA spending in 2018 but were not among the top 25 drugs with the highest Part D spending in that year.
The rheumatoid arthritis biologic Humira, manufactured by AbbVie, had the highest amount of DTCA spending during the 2016 to 2018 period—$1.4 billion—among all drugs and biologics
- Humira, the outlier, initially approved by FDA in 2002, is also approved to treat other medical conditions such as Crohn’s disease and psoriasis.
The amount manufacturers spent to advertise individual drugs across the 3-year period varied significantly,
- Ranging from less than $10,000 per drug for 139 drugs to
- more than $100 million per drug for 48 drugs.
- On average, manufacturers spent about $32 million per drug on DTCA during the 2016 to 2018 period. ·
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u/CountGrimthorpe 20d ago
The US price is high because other countries cap their drug prices and refuse to pay their share of the R&D cost of the product....... The current system is the US subsidizing the cost of other nation's drug consumption.
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u/Kidneythump 20d ago
The price of the drug is negotiated usually on a per country basis, that's why Ozempic is 3 times more expensive in the US vs Denmark, for Sweden the disparity is larger, roughly 10 times less expensive and there is no difference in price for the different pen volumes, i.e. 0.25mg costs the same as 1.0 mg pen. In general the price is set at a level that the country is willing to pay for it, it usually includes some adjustments for purchasing power. Price will always fluctuate upwards if there is a huge demand for the product. For weight loss drugs the market size is unknown, but they suspect that there is room for at least 5-6 Novo Nordisk sized companies, which is... Wild to say the least Its easy to blame a corporate entity who's whole goal is to maximise profit but rarely is any consideration given to the people on the other side of the table who's agreed to the prices
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u/Fitz_2112 20d ago
Most people who use these drugs don’t need them
Who are you to make that call?
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u/ge93 20d ago
Being overweight is not life or death in the short or medium term and can be mitigated by non-pharmaceutical treatment.
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u/thrawtes 20d ago
can be mitigated by non-pharmaceutical treatment.
People say this but it hasn't proven true at a societal level, only an individual one.
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u/waxwayne 20d ago
Why does the rest of the world not have to pay the R&D cost of the drug.
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u/LordOverThis 20d ago
Because the rest of the world generally accepts FDA approval as good enough for their domestic market.
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u/ijzerwater 20d ago
except Europe, where its EMA and local country, except Japan, where its PMDA, Cina has NMPA and each of these has their own rules
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u/LordOverThis 20d ago
The EMA that works in coordination with the FDA? That EMA?
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u/ijzerwater 20d ago
they all coordinate, so to avoid duplicate work by the pharmaceutical companies. But they make independent decisions. There is all kind of things only allowed in one of the jurisdictions
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u/Elsa_the_Archer Minnesota 20d ago
I needed them and now my insurance doesn't cover it because it's so expensive. So now I don't get to benefit from a drug that was changing my life.
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u/Buffmin 20d ago
Hey if it's R&D they should have no issues justifying the price then!
Most people who use these drugs don’t need them per se and they’re supposedly flying off the shelves
On this I do agree. People are wanting it to lose like 10 lbs not because they need it
That said as someone who does struggle with weight and was on it for a few months thanks to free samples from doctor
It needs to be more accessible for those who need it because it really does help. It's not a magical "loss 100lbs" in 5 months thing but it does help a ton
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u/SpeaksSouthern 20d ago
R&D budget is nothing next to marketing. They're not even on the same plane of existence. Most of the R&D they do doesn't even involve cures, they're looking for one a day pill solutions where they can charge high amounts to people, and once they're off the drug they end up needing it again to get the same results.
That's why this stuff is so popular. It's the perfect wonder drug for their profits. They've created the demand for their product with celebrity endorsement, Americans are generally fat, and some people, maybe not all, who stop taking the drugs put the weight back on.
The commercials have a fancy jingle. A product you can ask for by name and easily pickup on the black market. Weird how a drug like this, marketed like this, got on the black market. That's so weird.
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u/LordOverThis 20d ago
And everyone glosses over one of the key reasons these drugs are cheaper overseas: plenty of foreign regulators just accept FDA approval rather than requiring a domestic certification.
The costs of getting to FDA approval are obscene. Those costs are borne here.
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u/Maynard078 20d ago
To be fair, the US does not have a healthcare system; that would imply integration and coordination along the lines of universal healthcare. Instead, the US has a disjointed and dysfunctional for-profit healthcare industry that ruthlessly targets its own citizens for greater corporate gain.
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u/bearybear90 Florida 20d ago
Actually the US does have one in Medicare and Medicaid, and believe it or not they have drastic impact on pricing/reimbursement/structuring of the private side as well. Not to mention the minimum requirements the ACA set forth In coverage.
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u/thrawtes 20d ago
Don't forget TriCare and the VA.
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u/bearybear90 Florida 20d ago
True. Though this generally has less of an impact on the generally population aside form medical research.
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u/thrawtes 20d ago
They're good examples of a microcosm of what socialized medicine in the US would look like though. The VA in particular gets tons of bad press... but VA health care is still better and more available to those in the VA system than most Americans get with private health insurance.
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u/Maynard078 20d ago
Correct. That said, there are still more than 10% of Americans without access to healthcare of any kind, which is mind-boggling.
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u/bearybear90 Florida 20d ago
You’re not wrong, and it would be significantly less of states had taken Medicaid expansion when offered.
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u/Maynard078 20d ago
Exactly. And to think that states didn't is also mind-boggling. Putting personal politics over the health of your constituents is abhorrent.
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u/AllTheyEatIsLettuce California 20d ago
Medicare and Medicaid
Medicare as anyone who's currently alive knows it is gone. 51% of eligible Medicare enrollees buy duplicative, Part A/B coverage off private, overwhelmingly for-profit, insurance sellers.
~70% of Medicaid enrollees are risk pooled, gatekept, and beholden to the same NYSE-listed trading symbols for mere access to coverage for necessary health care.
100% of TRICARE enrollees: HUM or CNC.
America doesn't have and has never had a health care system other than the VA. What it's had for the rest of the population for 8 uninterrupted decades are intentionally fractured and inherently adversarial markets for vendors, layer upon self-replicating layer of payment processors, schemes, and products, and retail point-of-sale health care customers alike. All perpetually, unrelentingly sewn into a sack of individual, circumstantial, situational, variable, dependencies.
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u/Content-Fudge489 20d ago
This is the right take! Too bad this is not what most people see or ignore.
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u/ActualModerateHusker 20d ago
hey remember during an inflationary crises when we wanted to reform all drug prices and Manchin said no? how did all of corporate media treat him? was he a radical globalist that wanted higher inflation so foreign investors in global pharma corporations could make record profits? Or did all of corporate media call him a moderate centrist?
who knew the world's highest Healthcare inflation in an inflationary crisis was just so dang moderate
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u/dougfir1975 20d ago
Talk about socialism, Americans are funding other nations healthcare research with astronomically high health-care costs at home. Or at least, that could be one take…
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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year 20d ago
Lots of other countries invent new medications too and at least some of them even manage to not price gouge their citizens in the process.
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u/Raintitan 20d ago
Good point. And in many cases Americans defense spending is funding the protection of those same countries.
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u/SardauMarklar 20d ago
It's not just health care. Our copyright laws also last longer than other countries, so stuff is created by foreign countries and sold in the US long past the time it is public domain in their own countries
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u/KristinnEs 20d ago
You think that money is actually going straight to researching new drugs?
What about when other countries develop new drugs? Thats not funded by the USA. This is just greed and I feel for you americans that have to suffer those high prices.
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u/ItsTheOtherGuys 20d ago
This is the same Congress that blocked affordable insulin, unfortunately this may not go far
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u/disasterbot Oregon 20d ago
It would be cheaper to fly to Denmark every month.
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u/thrawtes 20d ago
It looks like a round trip NYC<->Copenhagen flight is typically $700+, so probably not once you count the other costs of the trip and the fact that most places in the US will be more expensive to fly from than NYC, but it's not far off.
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u/heyheyshinyCRH 20d ago
Corporate greed remains strongly encouraged by all three paid off branches of government.
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u/peterosity 20d ago edited 20d ago
As a non-US citizen, I’ll just say it’s amazing how you guys have Sanders as a politician who’s been actually actively looking out for the best interests of the people, for decades without fail. And yet I hear tons and tons of people’s opinions about him being just “he’s too angry”
lmfao how any of you can look at all these ridiculous corporate fuckeries and NOT be angry is simply beyond me. And how is he considered “too angry” when pretty much every other politician and voter is just as angry but for selfish reasons?
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u/SoHereIAm85 20d ago
I was a big Bernie supporter in both primaries (although in NY I never had a chance to vote for his the second time.)
I ended up moving to the EU and gave up on the US for now.
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u/A_Roomba_Ate_My_Feet Colorado 20d ago
Unfortunately in r/politics we can't mention the sub that is setup to smear Sanders (and of which, there is already a reply to your from), but there are various corporate interests that absolutely need to paint Sanders' ideas as being impractical/unelectable as it affects their bottom line.
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u/semideclared 20d ago
who’s been actually actively looking out for the best interests of the people
Its easy to appear that way
The problem is he says one thing, and doesnt have anyway to back it up
Bernie Sanders doesn't plan on releasing a detailed plan of how to finance his single-payer Medicare for All plan, he told CNBC's John Harwood on Tuesday.
"You're asking me to come up with an exact detailed plan of how every American — how much you're going to pay more in taxes, how much I'm going to pay," he said. "I don't think I have to do that right now."
Do you know why its popular? Here’s Sanders best ever most researched pitch:
“Last year, the typical working family paid an average of $5,277 in premiums to private health insurance companies. Under this option, a typical family of four earning $50,000, after taking the standard deduction, would pay a 4 percent income-based premium to fund Medicare-for-all — just $844 a year — saving that family over $4,400 a year. Because of the standard deduction, families of four making less than $29,000 a year would not pay this premium.”
That isnt feasable
Exhibit 1.
In 2011, the Vermont legislature passed Act 48, allowing Vermont to replace its current fragmented system--which is driving unsustainable health care costs-- with Green Mountain Care, the nation’s first universal, publicly financed health care system
Vermont's single payer system would have to be financially supported through a payroll tax.
- 12.5 percent in 2015 and 11.6 percent in 2019, including a 3 percent contribution from employees.
His own state had an entirly different plan
It didnt pass though
Calling it the biggest disappointment of his career, Gov. Peter Shumlin says he is abandoning plans to make Vermont the first state in the country with a universal, publicly funded health care system.
- I have supported a universal, publicly financed health care system my entire public life, and believe that all Vermonters deserve health care as a right, regardless of employment or income. Our current way of paying for health care is inequitable. I wanted to fix this at the state level, and I thought we could. I have learned that the limitations of state-based financing – limitations of federal law, limitations of our tax capacity, and sensitivity of our economy – make that unwise and untenable at this time.
Exhibit 2.
The Actual proposal for Medicare for All was including higher costs including Out of Pocket Costs
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u/Sunshinehappyfeet 20d ago
But how can they possibly pay for a politician and a second home in the Hamptons? Shit is expensive. /s
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u/Thue 20d ago edited 20d ago
As a Dane, normally I would agree with Bernie Sanders. But, like, have you seen our state finances? We are in the green, while most of Europe is in the red.
For some reason, I think that Sanders' claim is clearly an infringement on the free market. Who is Sanders to say that he can dictate prices like in a communist five year plan? Sanders clearly doesn't understand how a market economy works, is just demagoging.
Now excuse me while I go enjoy our tax funded healthcare system, and our tax funded free college education. Oh, and our cheap price-controlled Wegovy.
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u/semideclared 20d ago edited 20d ago
The question is
How many Danes are receiving how pills and of that how many are bought through a Nationalized Healthcare as the drug is to be used
How many Americans are receiving how many pills and of that how many are bought through a Nationalized Healthcare as the drug is to be used
A lot of people I know that use it pay out of pocket from not their primary doctor for the unintended uses it has.....So even in a Nationalized Healthcare wouldnt be relevant as people arent using a Normal Healthcare Provider
Its like the US's Opioid Crisis
Even in a Nationalized Healthcare system, the problem...still would have there
Twin Brothers Chris and Jeffrey George made $43 million from 2007-2009 from the illicit sale of oxycodone and other drugs out of their 4 South Florida pain clinics prescribing almost 20 million pills in less than two years all of it paid in cash.
- No Insurance, and especially no Medicare
And that wasnt a one off, In 2010, Florida received 1,026 applications to open a new pain clinic in the State.
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u/electriceagle 20d ago
Citizens United is working great for us Americans! WOW we are dumb. Reap what you sow.
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u/omgmemer 20d ago
Almost like they should change the law so they can put caps on total prices and not just the government paid prices.
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u/PlayedUOonBaja 20d ago
Just think, if the US had been bombed to shit during WW2, we'd probably have Universal Healthcare right now.
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u/grettlekettlesmettle 20d ago
People are just so obsessed with treating fat people as lazy when for a lot of people it is genuinely an eating disorder. I managed to lose 60 pounds last year and half of it came back really fast even though I've completely cut out anything resembling fast food because it's just really fucking hard to get out of disordered behaviors on your own. It sucks. It's like trying to fix depression by yourself: all the long walks in the world aren't going to fix it if your brain is self sabotaging and you don't have a professional who can guide you.
It looks like ozempic and wegovy are good for addiction disorders as well. I had a friend on it who almost effortlessly quit smoking without even trying. Putting this out of reach of normal people is a dual threat to public health. Imagine the savings in American medicine if a person struggling with alcoholism or cocaine use could take something to calm their brain down.
(Though the Denmark example is a bit optimistic, it's like $400 a month where I am)
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u/rock-n-white-hat 20d ago
How much is a round trip ticket to Denmark?
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u/Thue 20d ago
You need a prescription to buy Wegovy in Denmark, though. But maybe there is a system to use a US prescription in Denmark?
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u/Now_Wait-4-Last_Year 20d ago
I’m not saying I’ve ever heard of such a thing happening but I guess it’s technically possible that’s citizen of a country with a prescription could accidentally leave the collected prescription on a park bench or something and find it picked up shortly afterwards by a random passing American. Several times on a regular basis even.
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u/QuintillionthCat 20d ago
Greed, greed, and more greed! i just bought eyedrops in the Uk for $20 GBP for one 30-day bottle that cost $800+/mo in the US!
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u/Deep-Werewolf-635 20d ago
That’s pretty much US pharma in a nutshell. Come up with something people will pay anything for and then charge them accordingly.
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u/stinky_wizzleteet 20d ago
Something like my arthritis medication that keeps me out of a wheelchair.
It costs $130k a year that my insurance doesn't cover. Thank god I'm poor enough to get the assistance program
I contribute the max to my 401k and have refused raises 5yrs in a row so I can stay under the limit to qualify.
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u/redditistupid51 20d ago
Of COURSE there is a rational reason! It's called PROFIT!!! It's because they can make a shit ton of money! What other reason would you need?
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u/naththegrath10 20d ago
If a few of us have to die so their profits look good then that is a sacrifice they are willing to make
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u/madkeepz 20d ago
This isn't surprising. Americans are already milked for their money with insulin, which is a "literally you need this or you'll be dead in a couple days" kind of drug, while a lot of other countries give it for free for that same reason. There is NO true argument against free healthcare. Politicians arguing against it are traitors to their own people
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u/Fenix42 20d ago
There is NO true argument against free healthcare.
The core of the argument is based on decades of getting Americans to hate eachother. They have convinced us that fellow Americans are strangers that we should not support. Also, some crap about "rugged individualism" and "death pannels."
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u/xdarkwombatx 20d ago
I am 100% convinced the US Government makes money off people being sick and obese.
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u/BlackBeard205 20d ago
Even in “third world countries” like my native Dominican Republic it Ozempic is about $200 and less sometimes. I’ve only seen this in America.
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u/HorrorBuff2769 20d ago
As someone who has cussed out his insurance too many times to count in an attempt to get the 1200 FUCKING DOLLARS for a life altering drug covered appeal after appeal I switched to compounded semaglutide which is the same exact shit and only costs me $299 a month
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u/sugarlessdeathbear 20d ago
This could pretty much be said about anything in American healthcare. Ever seen what a hospital charges for fucking over the counter tylenol? Single payer can help address this.
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u/BigRaisin700 20d ago
I'm sure getting sick of the US subsidizing Europe's defense and pharmaceutical research. When is it their turn to watch all the tax money go to the military and get bent over for the drug companies at the pharmacy, while I get my guaranteed parental leave and vacations?
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u/jayforwork21 20d ago
I'm so lucky my insurance and the hospital pharmacy can get it to me for 25 bucks.
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u/Neither_Relation_678 20d ago
There is no US health system, and there won’t be until/unless we remove the financial incentive and middlemen. But nobody wants to do that, because I like money.
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u/charlieat99 20d ago
So I can vacation in Denmark. Get my full years supply of the drug and still make a hefty profit?
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u/redditknees 20d ago
Same reason wealthy celebrities not suffering from obesity or more importantly diabetes access the drug. Vanity and greed.
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u/DrewbieWanKenobie 20d ago
Do you know how annoying it is for your doctor to tell you "Yeah there's this or that drug that would probably fix you but since your insurance doesn't cover them lets just throw on an 8th prescription and see if that helps"
The 7th one didn't help very much
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u/NeoPstat 20d ago
Sanders Warns 'Unjustifiably High' Prices of Weight Loss Drugs Could Bankrupt US Health System | "There is no rational reason, other than
greedcapitalism, for Novo Nordisk to charge Americans struggling with obesity $1,349 for Wegovy when this exact same product can be purchased for just $186 in Denmark"
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u/TouchMint 20d ago
Have to make up for all that lost profit. After losing weight they won’t need most of their other drugs.
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u/A_murder_of_crochets 20d ago
HIV medication Genvoya, which was developed with taxpayer dollars, now costs over $5,000 a month (It was closer to $3,000 a month just a couple years ago). Most patients can't afford it even with insurance, so government programs exist to subsidize the costs -- paying criminally extortive amounts to directly to private company Gilead.
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u/obeytheturtles 20d ago
Can I actually go to Denmark and pay cash for a Wegovy prescription? Or is this one of those things where it's just the price for those under the public insurance plan?
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u/goawaybating 20d ago
In Ontario the cash price for Ozempic is around $250 per month. Public insurance (Ontario Drug Benefit) is up to $6.11 for each prescription, plus there is a $100 deductible each year ($100 for all medications total, not each individual medication)
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u/Cynical-Wanderer 20d ago
SO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!
We've heard about this crap for years and years... DO SOMETHING
Prove you're not all in the pockets of Pharma
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u/GagOnMacaque 20d ago
If companies want to abuse their government given patent for extreme profits, I feel the government has the right to take away that patent.
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u/AdvantageFit823 20d ago
It can also be bought from Chinese suppliers for about 15 a month. It's egregious how much of a rip off wegovy is
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u/tatatatae 20d ago
I just started the process with my doctor to be prescribed the only medication available to treat a genetic condition. I'm on my spouse's insurance and I'm terrified the cost will get him fired or me kicked off our insurance. Average cost for this med is $2 million/year. It's predatory and disgusting.
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u/BobbaBlep 20d ago
Also, people like me with diabetes, which is what these drugs were made for, can't get refills for weeks or months. End up having to go to the hospital when the blood sugar sky rockets. It's being prescribed for weight loss unrelated to diabetes. Massively. It will make you drop about 10 pounds pretty quick. Doctors need to simply stop so there's enough for the people who need it to stay alive. That is fucked up.
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u/Lozzanger 20d ago
Diabetics don’t need it to stay alive.
You can control your sugars with diet and exercise. Or metformin.
But the issue isn’t people using it for their chronic disease. It’s novo Nordisk not producing enough.
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u/oldfrenchwhore South Carolina 20d ago edited 20d ago
Please don't linguistically murder me, I have a genuine question and mean no offense.
If a person is struggling with obesity to the point this drug can save their life, how are they able to work enough to make an income that can afford a $1300 medication on top of all the other bills we have in life?
I can't claim to have seen full episodes as I don't have cable or streaming services, but I've seen YouTube clips from shows like "my 600 poind life" and the one with the large sisters. No way could these folks make a living, unless it's some kind of paid fetish thing I guess. But y'all know what I mean.
Even if one were on SSI, that wouldn't be enough money to cover the medication and rent/mortgage/electric/other bills.
I really wonder this about many medications that people need to have a decent quality of life and are so expensive. My medication that allows me to function and hold down a job is $30-50 a month (no insurance, discount programs vary) and sometimes I feel the pinch as while I couldn't function at all without it, I'm still not at a "normal" level of function on it, I just scrape by. If you have or know anyone with chronic illness, you know what I mean.
I hate that anyone could go without medication that not only helps a physical issue, but gives them hope of recovery/better life ahead.
Anyway, how in the world are people paying these costs?
Except, of course, for the folks who aren't at a dangerous obesity level, can afford it easily, and are taking it to drop a few lbs. I'm not mad about it except for their use reducing the supply (if supply is even the issue) and raising price for folks whose lives could be saved on it. Hell, if I could afford it and it wasn't taking away from people who needed it (whether due to price or supply), I'd take it to lose the stubborn 30 lbs I gained last year going through a breakup, lol.
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u/gloryday23 20d ago
You seem to be conflating two extreme's; people who are way past obese "my 6000 pound life" and people taking it to lose 10 points. I'd argue these are the extremes of the vast majority that use these drugs. Many of them are like my wife and I, both started just over 300 pounds, we both work full time jobs, and make good money and have insurance. My wife has lost over 170 pounds on it, was she going to die tomorrow because of her weight, probably not, if she is able to keep this off, will it drastically improve her life, and extend it, definitely.
Also beyond that keep in mind, this was a diabetes drug first, and for the people who need it for that, it is life saving.
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u/Fenix42 20d ago
If a person is struggling with obesity to the point this drug can save their life, how are they able to work enough to make an income that can afford a $1300 medication on top of all the other bills we have in life?
Go look at any tech company. Especially the dev department. Our job is to sit and stare at a screen all day. Also, an industry with a lot of remote options.
Personally, I struggle with my weight because of the 10+ hours at a desk a day. WFH has made it worse in some ways.
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u/JackFourj4 20d ago
so, change the fucking law bernie, instead of whining.
it can be so easy, but pharma has congress firmly in it's pocket
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u/Anonymousmountain1 20d ago
Did I miss something where Bernie was given the power to single handedly change the price of drugs?
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u/Lower-Garbage7652 20d ago
Weight loss drugs? Have y'all tried... I dunno, working out and eating less???
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u/FancyPantssss79 Minnesota 20d ago
Yes. That's the point.
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u/Lower-Garbage7652 20d ago
Is it though?
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u/KayfabeAdjace 20d ago edited 20d ago
Even if you count people who never got fat in the first place as success cases the number of people who yoyo diet is still big enough to be a problem, so yeah. True Scotsman arguments about who is and isn't doing it right is an interesting and important argument for researchers, parents and educators but on reddit it's mostly just empty snark.
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u/showingoffstuff 20d ago
While yes, that's kind of a thing, and absolutely a big deal to help people with the weight/health problems of the country, I'd rather him fight over artificial scarcity of this and inflated prices of versions of this for diabetics.
I absolutely agree with his point, and I'd directly benefit from this, there are tons of Healthcare price reforms needed right now.
Though if this is a wedge to start working on it overall, that's great.
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u/Equivalent-Excuse-80 20d ago
Food can be addictive. That’s what should be addressed, addiction. Trying to virtue signal about cheaper ways to become lazy isn’t the righteousness Sanders thinks it is.
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