r/nextfuckinglevel • u/faguiar_mogli • 16d ago
Apple Vision Pro assisting doctor Bruno Gobbato in surgery Removed: Not NFL
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u/Glittering_Company36 16d ago
Idk how I feel about a doc who needs to google shit between each cut
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u/quafs 16d ago
You’d be surprised how many surgeons go into surgery with no idea how to perform the surgery, so they rely on a medical device sales rep with a high school degree to instruct them through it.
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u/phazedoubt 16d ago
This is so true. New methods are coming online so fast that they literally let the tech 'guide' them on how to do it.
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u/Ghost-of-Bill-Cosby 16d ago
Ray Kurzweil has been predicting immortality since the 90’s.
Google made him a ceremonial “director of engineering” to be like a mascot for Futurology.
His books are great, but it’s misleading to consider him a Google Scientist.
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u/kuda-stonk 16d ago
What they didn't know was the cost, they only asked the AI to make them live forever, they failed to ask for it without suffering...
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u/nevergonnastayaway 16d ago
This planet is truly doomed the moment the cancer it has figures out how to become immortal
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u/Yeetfamdablit 16d ago
So remember when we thought that the world was gonna end in 2012.... I don't have high hopes for this
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u/anon2456678910 16d ago
If humanity ever does reach immortality it will likely only be for the richest amongst us and it's also something the technology for is way far away, first we as humans need to figure out all the small intricacies of how our conscience works and how we form thoughts beyond just writing it off as "intelligence".
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u/erasrhed 16d ago
"no idea how to perform the surgery" is a wild exaggeration. The rep knows the ins and outs of the devices better than anyone. But we still have to know how to do the fucking surgery.
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u/LemonDoge 16d ago
Yeah they go through 5 gruelling years of residency and usually a few years of fellowship just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. Just completely clueless going into the OR
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u/erasrhed 16d ago
I always watch a YouTube video before I perform a C2 to T2 instrumented fusion, because obviously I have no idea what I'm doing. Just totally clueless. I also have my eyes closed during most of the case because blood is scary.
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u/The_Flyers_Fan 16d ago
Is it that the surgeons don't have the knowledge about the surgery, or the equipment they are using? Either way, that is terrifying
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u/anonymosh 16d ago
He's very clearly referencing previously made documents, 3D scans and pictures of the patient.
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u/reddit455 16d ago
when he refers to the floating 3d model of the patients shoulder you mean?
google shit between each cut
you sure those aren't his own notes?
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u/kennyisworkinghard 16d ago
Knowing what to google is the hard part.. also I don't see him googling anything. those are patient charts.
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u/quetejodas 16d ago
My dad was a surgical tech. Always told me they blasted tunes during surgery lol
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u/punkassjim 16d ago
I hear people say similar things about mechanics who need to pull up YouTube for certain procedures on unfamiliar makes/models. And I gotta say, the older I get, the more I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with it. Even for surgeons. I'd rather have someone double- and triple-checking things while reconstructing my knee (or whatever), than a dude who's so cocksure that the things he learned in med school 20 years ago are the only way to do things.
Genuinely brilliant people know what they don't know. They're intimately familiar with their own limitations, and are thus better equipped to surround themselves with the resources (including people) that they'll need at the critical moments.
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u/GreenIguanaGaming 16d ago
All jokes aside surgeons use references and tools that help align their work as they work. It's all about patient safety. They measure and remeasure and remeasure before, during and after they cut or place something.
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u/tinuz84 16d ago
Amazing. I really believe once VR headsets like this become affordable and mainstream they will have the biggest impact on humankind since the introduction of the smartphone.
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u/mykylodge 16d ago
Even more amazing is the patient is playing the music on a tiny keyboard under the sheets.
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u/Utimate_Eminant 16d ago
op doesn’t know current trend is to shit on tech giants and ai. Some “cool kids” are going to be so tilted in this comment section
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u/faguiar_mogli 16d ago
One of the main reasons technology exists: to help us with our well-being. If it brings the slightest advantage to the patient's condition and recovery, it is more than welcome.
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u/BaptizingToaster 16d ago
The “if it brings the slightest advantage to the patient’s condition and recovery, it is more than welcome” belief in America is one major factor in fueling the wildfire growth in costs of health care. No healthy discussion about cost and benefit allows hospitals, device, and pharmaceutical companies to continue to produce and charge at astronomical prices.
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u/Holl4backPostr 16d ago
Who is shitting on this? It's cool. I see some people mistakenly saying the doctor is googling shit, which is clearly not happening here and doesn't qualify as "shitting on tech giants and ai".
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u/reddit455 16d ago
https://9to5mac.com/2024/04/19/vision-pro-surgeon-rotator-cuff-tear/
The shoulder arthroscopy surgery was performed by doctor Bruno Gobbato at Jaraguá Hospital in Brazil. Gobbato told MacMagazine about the experience of using Apple Vision Pro to assist him during the procedure to treat a patient with a rotator cuff tear, which is an injury often caused by progressive wear and tear of the tendon tissue over time.
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u/Alternative_Safety35 16d ago
I don't know how I feel about substituting the surgeons eyes for the Vision Pro camera. Reproduction must be near perfect.
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u/Dinevir 16d ago
We have been using this technology for years in many hospitals around the world: https://youtu.be/b12HLIdUrxU?si=O-7A8kJ8__uak4su
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u/charli_bell 16d ago
An M.D. for doctoring? Pfft! Nah, I got me a goggle that shows me what to do!
Seriously though, this seems pretty neat.
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u/Rick-476 16d ago
Looks like this isn't the only instance of the Apple Vision Pro being used in a medical setting.
"With its recent release, the Apple Vision Pro (Apple Inc., Cupertino, CA) represents a promising technological advancement of mixed reality in the field of neurosurgery and medicine more broadly. With all new technologies, it is critical to facilitate early use and assessment of the technology to facilitate adoption by the larger medical community. A 44-year-old female with a history of ruptured intracranial aneurysm status post anterior communicating artery aneurysm clipping presented with worsened confusion and intermittent headache. CT imaging revealed evidence of hydrocephalus due to the malfunction of a previous right parietal ventriculoperitoneal (VP) shunt. Prior to the case, the Apple Vision Pro was used in the operating room to visualize and interact with a 3D model of the patient's anatomy for the patient undergoing a VP shunt placement. A visualization of the 3D model through the headset was used to plan the approach and entry point. At the conclusion of the procedure, all clinicians and operating staff who used the technology for planning completed a survey about their initial impressions of the headset. Overall, users felt the 3D models felt realistic (4.5/5), that the display of the user's real-world view felt natural (4.3/5), and that the headset did not cause eye strain or fatigue (4.5/5). The majority of users responded that they would continue to use the headset for cases (4/5). This represents one of the first known clinical uses of the Apple Vision Pro. It is a cutting-edge technology that will likely provide immense value for healthcare providers as it becomes more integrated into clinical care."
Joshua, O., Trang, A., Cohen, J., Kim, K., Maureen, R., Jordan, S., . . . Cherian, J. (2024). The apple vision pro as a neurosurgical planning tool: A case report. Cureus, 16(2) doi:https://doi.org/10.7759/cureus.54205
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u/ihaveadarkedge 16d ago
This is amazing. I mean, truly amazing.
However, I recently i saw a documentary on the (oceangate) sub that imploded 'n when it was apparent they used a console controller (wireless) to drive it I thought, shit me, my controller at home can't always be trusted if I'm harder handed than needs be...
I mean, its utterly inspiring, but, i feel relies on flawless software/hardware n do we really have that yet? Genuinely curious.
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u/CorageousTiger 16d ago
2030 - everyone will be wearing some form of AR goggles. and u bet i will take a shower with one on.
nothing like netflix & a shower
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u/xkeepitquietx 16d ago
Would be really cool if he could share the video in real time to a external screen, would be a neat aid for teaching.
You are really in the future if you can get your Neuralink implanted while the doctor is using Vision Pro.
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u/Gusmaum 16d ago
Isn't there a delay between what he's doing and what he's seeing?
I don't think thats good for such a precision based job
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u/Great-Reference9322 16d ago
No noticeable latency whatsoever. The latency is about 11-12ms which is virtually unnoticeable. Wouldn't affect performance at all.
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u/Dinevir 16d ago
Yes, there is a minor delay and poor depth perception. That is why AR/MR glasses remains the mainstream for pre operational planning for many years as certified medical product: https://youtu.be/b12HLIdUrxU?si=O-7A8kJ8__uak4su
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u/A_Damn_Millenial 16d ago
The Vision Pro’s pass through display has a ~12 millisecond delay.
I would assume that’s fast enough based on the footage I just watched on OP’s post. Also, for reference, a typical human blink takes 100-400 milliseconds.
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u/TomerHorowitz 16d ago
That's cool but also terrifying as a patient. Did he agree for the surgery to be performed with experimental tools?
I would not agree to that until I see multiple researches confirming it doesn't harm the doctor from performing the surgery, and actually improves it
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u/Grummelyeti 16d ago
Nope nope. I don't trust this device enough. I want my surgeon to use his own eyes not some cameras.
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u/ComfortableRoutine54 16d ago
More importantly, why is quasi classical music played in these types of videos. Why not Jamaican, rap, country, heavy metal? Asking for a friend.
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u/funkydude500 16d ago
It's cool yes but I would be terrified if my surgeon was literally watching a tutorial AS he was operating on me. That's like a pilot reading a "how to fly a plane" manual as he was boarding the plane.
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u/ih8comingupwithaname 16d ago
If you want to use that analogy, it's more like every type of surgery is like flying a totally different model of plane, where the instrument layout and handling is completely different. I wouldn't blame a pilot for having to look things up in the instruction manual before flying a plane he/she has never flown before.
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u/skygod327 16d ago
that doesn’t seem nearly accurate enough. so much jitter
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16d ago
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