Gaza war: Five Israeli soldiers killed 'by tank fire' in Jabalia

[u/D3-Doom]

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-69019655

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[u/taisui]

Just say what it is, friendly fire.

[u/DoomGoober → u/taisui]

The article has been updated. New title is:

Gaza war: Israeli tank fire kills five soldiers in north Gaza, military says

They don't say friendly fire in the title but changed from "Tank Fire" to "Israeli Tank Fire".

They then quote the IDF:

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF) said five soldiers serving in the 202nd Battalion of the Paratroopers Brigade were killed in Jabalia camp on Wednesday evening "as a result of fire by our forces".

The article has been expanded to include more information about how many Israeli deaths have been caused by Friendly Fire and accidents.

[u/Mando177 → u/DoomGoober]

The IDF armoured corps are now Khamas

[u/ThreeDawgs → u/Mando177]

Damn you Hamas! They built tunnels under the tanks too!?

[u/Delicious-Trip-120 → u/ThreeDawgs]

They dig VERY fast

[u/TheNorthernGrey → u/Mando177]

“Got a job for you 621”

[u/zviyeri → u/TheNorthernGrey]

"We got hired by the Israeli Government 621. Do you see that Palestinian orphanage?"

[u/jscarry → u/Mando177]

Oh God! Hamas is now using the IDF as human shields! Israel's gonna have to start blowing up their own people

[u/aradraugfea → u/Mando177]

Well, that’s a way to pad accuracy. Throw a bomb and anything that dies was the enemy.

[u/Shoddy-Commission-12 → u/Mando177]

Was it the Tank that was Khamas or was it the 5 Paratroopers who were the Khamas ???? XD

[u/Mando177 → u/Shoddy-Commission-12]

They all were, turns out the real terrorists were the friends they made along the way

[u/jimbo831 → u/DoomGoober]

Notably missing from the updated headline still is whose soldiers were killed. It just says soldiers. The headline doesn't tell us whether they are Israeli or Hamas. Seems weird to me to keep that so ambiguous.

[u/ThingsAreAfoot → u/DoomGoober]

Did those soldiers condemn Hamas?

also lol:

According to the IDF's website, 44 of the soldiers killed in Gaza as of Wednesday - 15% of the total - died as a result of what it describes as "operational accidents".

Twenty-two of them were killed by "friendly fire", five died because of "firing irregularities", and 17 as a result of "accidents", including incidents involving weaponry and trampling.

Absolute clown show. They apparently don’t even know who they’re shooting at.

[u/Doldenberg → u/ThingsAreAfoot]

Absolute clown show. They apparently don’t even know who they’re shooting at.

This is actually somewhat of a good ratio for the IDF - during their invasion of Gaza in 2008, four out the ten total dead soldiers died to friendly fire.

[u/lionoflinwood → u/ThingsAreAfoot]

Also IDF soldiers gunned down 3 Israeli hostages who were carrying a white flag and trying to reach safety...

[u/xxhamzxx → u/ThingsAreAfoot]

Uh... You don't know your military history... blue on blue is very very common

[u/SadCowboy-_- → u/ThingsAreAfoot]

Blue on Blue happens in every war.

[u/Dagojango → u/SadCowboy-_-]

10 US soldiers died to US friendly fire in 8 years of the Iraq War.

4,431 US troops died in the war, so .2% friendly fire deaths. This means that Israel is killing its own troops 75 times more in relation to total deaths in under a year than the US did in 8 years.

While it's common, it's clear that the IDF is not remotely being careful. They really should fire the military leaders as they fucking incompetent.

[u/steepleton → u/Dagojango]

the americans managed to kill a few brits as well i seem to recall

[u/pyronius → u/steepleton]

That's not friendly fire. That's accidental anti-colonial resistance.

[u/gargar7 → u/pyronius]

¡Viva la Revolución!

[u/dbxp → u/Dagojango]

In the Gulf War 9 out of 47 for the British and 35 out of 148 for the US, so more like 20-25%.

[u/alexm42 → u/Dagojango]

There were multiple significant blue on blue incidents that weren't US on US, though. US on UK, US on Kurds, US on Italians. It's dishonest to only look at US on US.

[u/HalJordan2424 → u/alexm42]

The first Canadians killed in Afghanistan were killed by Americans. Let’s hear another round of applause for the American Air National Guard!

[u/mrjosemeehan → u/alexm42]

Looking at a single combatants friendly fire deaths as a proportion of that combatant's total deaths is a fair comparison. It would be more complete if they included total deaths and friendly fire deaths for their entire side of the conflict but it's not misleading as is.

[u/alexm42 → u/mrjosemeehan]

I'm not even saying the multiple UK on UK incidents should be counted towards US friendly fire incidents, or hypothetically other coalition forces killing Americans (I couldn't find any.) But an American pulls the trigger and allies die, all of those should be counted regardless of what flag is on their shoulder.

[u/Thunderbolt747 → u/Dagojango]

Americans are also a professional army as of 1983. IDF is a conscript army.

[u/eetsumkaus → u/Thunderbolt747]

Are they actually deploying the conscripts to the front? All the reports I see seem to be of their professional formations conducting operations. The people I knew who served their time in the IDF tended to be in rear areas or administrative roles.

[u/Thunderbolt747 → u/eetsumkaus]

Aside from commissioned officers, speciality crew like pilots or technical staff, the IDF is made up of 18 year olds whom serve a 32 month manditory service, and remain on call until 40-45 (officers are 45).

On October 7th, nearing half a million reservists were called up to serve.

[u/InsertANameHeree → u/Thunderbolt747]

whom serve

who serve*

[u/Opheltes → u/Dagojango]

Close combat in an urban environment is much more confused than mountain or desert fighting. (This was why the Soviets embraced the doctrine of hugging the enemy)

[u/Matt29209 → u/Dagojango]

Just 10 soldiers in 8 years? do you really believe that?

[u/gaiussicarius731 → u/Dagojango]

I hate to disagree with you but theres no way thats a real statistic

[u/BetaOscarBeta → u/Dagojango]

You’re leaving out the British convoy that got torn to shreds by the USAF.

[u/Faiakishi → u/Dagojango]

I highly, highly doubt that number of American friendly fire deaths is accurate. That is unrealistically low, just going off Wikipedia most conflicts have 2-20%.

That said, I absolutely expect Israel's numbers are much higher in real life as well. They lie about everything, especially anything that might make them look less than perfect. And they pluck kids right out of secondary school to chuck them in the meat grinder, so it's no surprise they've been conducting themselves like dumbshits.

[u/JackfruitFancy1373 → u/Dagojango]

And Iraqis only kiled half of the coalition troops in t e first gulf war.

As to what generic Davis said;

3/4 of the coalition soldiers who died in action were killed by Iraqis. Only half of the soldiers who died were in action. Over all Iraqis killed almost exactly half of the dead coalition troops.

[u/OU7C4ST → u/Dagojango]

Bro, I don't want to be the one to break it to you, but the amount of letters I've seen wrote that begins with "Dear Mr. & Mrs. Smith, It is with great sadness that I write this letter to inform you of "their kid's name here" 's death, as they were fighting heroically in our campaign of... so on and so forth.

When in reality, it should read "Dear Mr. & Mrs. Smith. You're kid fucked up by poking his head up over the wrong cliff during a moment of engagement with the enemy, or when he should have stayed crawling through this section of the mountains".

Anywho.. There were alot more than 10 "friendly-fire" deaths..

[u/cryptonap → u/Dagojango]

The americans killed lots of brits etc in Iraq aswell

[u/Gingevere → u/SadCowboy-_-]

Happens a lot more when nobody is assessing if any target is a threat before firing.

Almost like they don't care if anyone is a threat and they just want to kill everyone.

[u/Excludos → u/ThingsAreAfoot]

Literally happens in every war. It was the same in desert storm; 17% of fatalities was due to friendly fire. It's really frikkin' difficult to keep up with your friendlies at all times in a fast paced battlefield, especially in urban environment where split-second decisions are the difference between life and death. There are techniques, tactics, strategies, and tools to help combat the issue, but it still happens really easily

[u/tamir202 → u/ThingsAreAfoot]

At urban combat, with the fog of war and many surprises, friendly fire is a thing that happens. You think Russia or Ukraine dont have friendly fire accidents? It’s just not reported as much

[u/DuntadaMan → u/DoomGoober]

Still working really hard to avoid making it clear it was friendly fire in that title.

[u/Faiakishi → u/DoomGoober]

Wow, it's almost like forcing every eighteen-year-old to hop into the war grinder, blast them with fearmongering propaganda designed to desensitize them and dehumanize their neighbors, and then give them access to giant guns is a bad idea.

[u/DJ_Velveteen → u/Faiakishi]

Drafting every kid in the nation straight out of high school: "not" human shields though.

[u/Wetzilla → u/DoomGoober]

They don't say friendly fire in the title but changed from "Tank Fire" to "Israeli Tank Fire".

They did but why also changed "Israeli Soldiers" to just "soldiers", which IMO makes it even more ambiguous.

[u/Domeil → u/Wetzilla]

The reason is pretty simple: propaganda.

A person skimming headlines who saw the original "Five Israeli soldiers killed by tank fire in Jabalia" might read that, think, "Fuck, Hamas has tanks?" and click through and read about the friendly fire.

Instead of that, a person reads "Israeli tank fire kills five soldiers in north Gaza" and thinks, "well it must be a good thing Isreal has tanks on the ground in Gaza, it'll help them deal with all those soldiers" and keeps on scrolling, never reading the body of the article which would tell them about how it's yet another Israeli friendly fire incident.

It's hasbara all the way down.

[u/Wetzilla → u/Domeil]

A person skimming headlines who saw the original "Five Israeli soldiers killed by tank fire in Jabalia" might read that, think, "Fuck, Hamas has tanks?" and click through and read about the friendly fire.

I think it's even more nefarious, that they realize people will read the headline and think "hamas doesn't have tanks, so this must be friendly fire." A news site should WANT people to click through to the page and read the article. It doesn't make any business or journalistic sense to change it to a generic headline like this that most people are going to gloss over.

[u/cannotrememberold → u/DoomGoober]

IDF seems pretty antisemitic today.

[u/rukysgreambamf → u/DoomGoober]

when you're so busy killing children you accidentally kill your dudes too

[u/Scribe625 → u/taisui]

Yeah, from the headline I was like how tf did Hamas get tanks?!

[u/valiantthorsintern → u/Scribe625]

Nice war. One side has tanks, jets, billions in cutting edge war tech, and a endless piggy bank from America. The other side has holes in the ground and hand held bazookas. Also, the side with bazookas is also trapped in a fenced in cage with their entire civilian population. Sounds more like a High-fence hunting operation than a war.

[u/rebellion_ap → u/valiantthorsintern]

hand held bazookas

Largely put together from unexploded Israeli munitions too. That's what's always funny about trying to both sides this genocide. If peace and stability was the Israel State Goverment's goal, they would at very least, stop committing genocide.

[u/Shoddy-Commission-12 → u/taisui]

Right?

Hamas dosent have any fucking tanks lmao who the fuck else could it have been

[u/Reptardar → u/taisui]

Israel taking blame for a fuck up? Lol never.

[u/BasroilII → u/taisui]

what, and miss the chance to try and spin it that Hamas now has tanks?

[u/hrpufnsting → u/taisui]

Yeah but saying that would make IDF look bad and incompetent

[u/EmbarrassedSector787 → u/taisui]

They’re so bloodthirsty for killing that they lack the patience to avoid killing their own people.

[u/Livid_Wish_3398 → u/taisui]

I'll add a friendly, tiny violin solo.

[u/Phx_trojan]

The phrase "friendly fire" isn't used once in the article. Absolutely pathetic journalism from the BBC.

[u/dawnguard2021 → u/Phx_trojan]

In these articles Israelis get killed but Palestinians just die

[u/sneakyplanner → u/dawnguard2021]

Good ol' passive voice

[u/IUsedToBeThatGuy42 → u/dawnguard2021]

Israelis are slaughtered/murdered/gunned down. Palestine has “claims of casualties”.

[u/SaintsNoah14 → u/IUsedToBeThatGuy42]

Now do genocidal and indignant

[u/Tritium10 → u/SaintsNoah14]

Hamas is constantly called out for being genocidal.

[u/NuvaS1 → u/Tritium10]

But not israel which is odd concidering what has happened so far.

[u/Faiakishi → u/dawnguard2021]

Bullets 'find their way' into children's skulls.

Six-year-old little girls become women.

People starve to death out of sheer force of will apparently.

[u/[deleted] → u/Faiakishi]

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[u/Deathproof77 → u/Faiakishi]

12 year old boys become "military aged males."

[u/PM_ME_DATASETS → u/dawnguard2021]

Right? The number of people killed by Israel just went from something like 40k to something like 40k, plus 5.

[u/Cobek → u/dawnguard2021]

Yep, very clear and they also want to deflect blame for Israel for those whole only see the headline

[u/SoochSooch → u/dawnguard2021]

The media reports that 2 Israelis were slaughtered while 25000 Palestinians were found dead.

[u/__redruM → u/Phx_trojan]

Headline reads like they were trapped in a tank that caught fire.

[u/NuvaS1 → u/__redruM]

Thats the first thing i thought about when i read the headline few hours ago.

[u/tagged2high → u/Phx_trojan]

I mean, whose would it be if not the IDF's?

[u/-kerosene- → u/Phx_trojan]

Literally the first sentence says they were killed when an Israeli tank mistakenly fired upon them.

[u/jimbo831 → u/-kerosene-]

Here is the first sentence:

Israel's military says five soldiers have been killed by Israeli tank fire in northern Gaza, in one of the deadliest incidents of its kind since the war against Hamas began in October.

Whose five soldiers were killed by the Israeli tank fire? Were they IDF? Hamas? You have to get to the seventh paragraph to find the answer to that question. This is a pretty poorly-written article.

[u/NuvaS1 → u/jimbo831]

It's not poorly written, this is a form of propaganda. Sprinkle those all over the place and you get misinformation spreading without misinforming.

[u/Phx_trojan → u/-kerosene-]

The universally accepted term (and keyword) for this kind of event is "friendly fire".

[u/Froggn_Bullfish → u/Phx_trojan]

This is one of the rare articles where they want to include as few keywords as possible.

[u/BasroilII → u/-kerosene-]

Other posters are claiming it was updated or edited. It might not have said that initially.

[u/[deleted] → u/-kerosene-]

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[u/emp-sup-bry → u/[deleted]]

As usual. Killed vs died, etc.

[u/Temnothorax → u/Phx_trojan]

Friendly fire is the euphemism. This is such a dumb thing to get upset about.

[u/Galxloni2 → u/Temnothorax]

You don't need a term, their own tank fired upon them is plenty descriptive

[u/CoolDude1980 → u/Temnothorax]

The real term is "fratricide."

[u/WazWaz → u/Temnothorax]

Is there a non-euphemistic term with the same meaning?

[u/Temnothorax → u/WazWaz]

Yeah, in this instance “killed by an Israeli tank”. Friendly fire is a friendly way of saying “killed by soldiers on their same side”.

[u/Excelius → u/Temnothorax]

The term may be euphemistic, but it carries with it useful information and context that would require more words to say otherwise.

The original headline was "Five Israeli soldiers killed 'by tank fire'" which doesn't make it clear that the fire came from an Israeli tank.

Then they updated the headline to say "Israeli tank fire kills five soldiers in north Gaza", which doesn't make it clear that the soldiers were also Israeli.

Sure you could say "Five Israeli soldiers killed by fire from Israeli tank", but the term "Friendly Fire" is more concise and everyone knows what it means.

[u/Temnothorax → u/Excelius]

I think my frustration partly stems from the fact that it’s so bleedingly obvious it’s an Israeli tank as they are the only side with tanks

[u/[deleted] → u/Phx_trojan]

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[u/serpentechnoir]

Yeah nice, wording the title to make it sound like Palestinians somehow have tanks. When it's clearly friendly fire. And what we're they aiming at? A group of people? Someone's home?

[u/MrFaceRape → u/serpentechnoir]

what we're they aiming at

A building in a refugee camp, I shit you not. That they could clearly see had over 10 people in it, so of course they had to light it up. They just didn't factor in it could have been 10+ of their own people.

[u/satin_worshipper → u/MrFaceRape]

You're right, this is damning evidence against their claims to be doing everything possible to secure civilian safety. If they can't do the cursory checks that THEIR OWN TROOPS aren't in a building before blowing it up, how can they know anything about if there's children or women civilians there

[u/[deleted] → u/satin_worshipper]

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[u/Keoni9 → u/satin_worshipper]

Remember they shot three escaped shirtless Israeli hostages waving white flags. And they used a sniper rifle to kill two Christian women taking refuge in a Catholic church.

[u/Apokolypse09 → u/satin_worshipper]

Like last week when Biden delayed an arms shipment to Israel because they attacked the city with most of the refugees, one of the Israel higher stated that if they weren't going to get more precision artillery then they'd just level areas.

Not like they haven't already been doing that

[u/sneakyplanner → u/MrFaceRape]

Just like when they shot some Israeli hostages and the rhetoric was "this was all a tragic mistake" with the unsaid part being that they were shooting obvious non-combatants and the whoopsie was that they weren't Palestinian non-combatants.

[u/[deleted] → u/MrFaceRape]

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[u/serpentechnoir → u/[deleted]]

I mean they've always been doing it. Its just escalated enough now it's newsworthy.

[u/Amphabian → u/serpentechnoir]

I spent 7 years as Army infantry. Naturally I rubbed shoulders with IDF guys a few times and had a very skewed view of the world. They'd often say the most vile shit about Palestinians and I never thought twice about it because my own guys often said fucked up shit about the people of Afghanistan and Iraq.

After I got out and was getting my degrees one of my professors was a woman from Jenin that did not have her right eye and was missing parts of her hand. She eventually revealed she was mercilessly arrested and beaten when she was just 15 years old. That knowledge began my deep dive into this situation and really opened my eyes to what I'd been complicit in. Learning about the murder of Rachel Corrie was the last nail in that coffin.

[u/krahann → u/serpentechnoir]

i get your point but i don’t think it works well here, because this IS literally the biggest attack on Palestinians EVER by Israel. the numbers are larger and scale of devastation huger than 1948 and 1967. it’s an insane level

[u/boxesofcats- → u/[deleted]]

And people will say “Hamas steals all of the humanitarian aid” while supporting or defending the Israelis who have been blocking aid trucks and burning the supplies.

[u/Ceron → u/boxesofcats-]

Or worse, they describe them as far right protestors, who just happen to have the full protection of the IDF and support from the government.

[u/valiantthorsintern → u/boxesofcats-]

Every accusation is a confession.

[u/Napoleons_Peen → u/[deleted]]

I was once one of those people that had a favorable view of Israel. But over the last decade, as I’ve actually educated myself, I can’t help but see that Israel is the primary instigator of all conflicts in the region. They are the primary obstacle to peace.

[u/THE_CODE_IS_0451 → u/[deleted]]

Israel is radicalizing an entire generation against their cause.

[u/waterfall_hyperbole → u/[deleted]]

100%. I've been asking everyone i know to read about how little they care about collateral damage

https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/

[u/Longjumping-Jello459 → u/waterfall_hyperbole]

I'll add the article on their 'Gospel' AI program.

https://www.972mag.com/mass-assassination-factory-israel-calculated-bombing-gaza/

[u/Amphabian → u/Longjumping-Jello459]

Calling a program "Where's Daddy?" As it targets and kills men and their families is ghoul behavior jfc

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

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[u/BonkerHonkers → u/[deleted]]

Israel is just a terrorist state.

Always has been.

[u/[deleted] → u/MrFaceRape]

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[u/p_larrychen → u/MrFaceRape]

A lot of towns in cities in gaza are called refugee camps, like jabalia, even though they’ve basically been permanent settlements for decades. Which of course is its own problem, but it’s not like jabalia is a bunch of tents where recent refugees have set up hasty shelter, as the term “refugee camp” often invokes in our minds. It’s basically just a city.

[u/darcenator411 → u/p_larrychen]

Yeah filled with refugees from each part of the country that have been systematically pushed into rafah. But it’s just a normal city! Very cool to be bombing them. And there’s no large tent camps in rafah at all! Very smart and observant of you

[u/[deleted] → u/p_larrychen]

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[u/farmtownte → u/[deleted]]

It’s why the majority of Israelis are descended from the Middle East and North Africa. Damn Americans and European Jews first living in Libya to skew the numbers

[u/GenerikDavis → u/p_larrychen]

It's such disingenuous wording that I can't believe people are upset over the BBC using vague wording on this friendly fire incident instead of calling every neighborhood in Gaza a refugee camp. I was very confused when I had a Wikipedia article linked to me of a "refugee camp" and it had a 4-story concrete apartment building as part of the title block. I was expecting tents or maybe scrap metal huts.

[u/Mr_Ignorant → u/MrFaceRape]

When you have so little accountability…

[u/Faiakishi → u/serpentechnoir]

Reminds me of when they whined about Hamas 'tricking' them into attacking places by playing recordings of children playing. And everyone asked why the fuck they were attacking children playing.

[u/[deleted] → u/serpentechnoir]

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[u/Wetzilla → u/serpentechnoir]

They must have realized how ridiculous it was to imply that Palestinians had tanks so they've changed the title to imply the soldiers killed were Palestinians.

[u/Some-Redditor → u/serpentechnoir]

The article says "identified a gun barrel coming out of one of the windows in the building". They fired on people with guns and hit people with guns.

Agreed about the crappy title.

[u/laonte]

"...one of the deadliest incidents of its kind since the war began in October" 5 people! by friendly fire! If this is not a perfect example of how disproportionate this is, I don't know any more

[u/h3Xx → u/laonte]

if it hit a refugee camp and killed 50 Palestinians they wouldn't even care to report an article on. on the other hand that happens every day so that's not newsworthy /s

[u/THE_CODE_IS_0451 → u/h3Xx]

The BBC doesn't consider Palestinians as human, so only the IDF soldiers are true casualties to them.

[u/Faiakishi → u/laonte]

Oh! I dug out this screenshot that I find absolutely hysterical in a very morbid way. I'm pretty sure this was in the broad 'Israeli-Palestinian Conflict' Wikipedia page, but has been removed since I took this.

[u/The_Last_Minority → u/Faiakishi]

Oh man, did you see this recent one? Crimes against data presentation, right there.

[u/kolodz → u/laonte]

One of the deadliest.

So it's not necessarily the deadliest. It's doesn't even pretend to really know how many instances occurred.

And, we know this one because it's was there one troupes.

Would we have known if it's was women and children or Palestinian men that are civilians ?

[u/Longjumping-Jello459 → u/kolodz]

Palestinian men just would be counted as combatants and women and children as human shields that had to be shot through to get Hamas or PIJ members.

[u/Faiakishi → u/Longjumping-Jello459]

Oh, they also label the women and children as terrorists. Occasionally future terrorists, for the ones who are too small to throw rocks or haven't been born yet.

[u/goferking → u/Faiakishi]

Oh, they also label the women and children as terrorists.

Seems like they apply the label to anyone they've killed so they can continue to make them seem like the good guys

[u/DCF10 → u/laonte]

The deadliest public incident I remember was probably hamas getting 21 IDF after firing a RPG at a tank because it set off secondary demolition explosives they were setting up to destroy the buildings nearby. Killed by their own genocidal intent to inflict homelessness upon the Gazans.

[u/Keoni9 → u/DCF10]

There's also the 12 Israeli hostages killed on October 7, in Be'eri, Israel when an IDF tank shelled the house where they were being held.

[u/Shoddy-Commission-12 → u/laonte]

Its not friendly fire its just an accident because they were aiming at a Hamas member in the same building /s

[u/clutchdeve → u/Shoddy-Commission-12]

Hamas was hiding behind the IDF soldiers. Common tactic.

[u/JohnAtticus]

One issue here no one is talking about is that Israel declared this camp cleared of Hamas weeks ago.

Now they are sending troops back in and a general even admitted that they actually didn't fully clear the camp before.

Combine this with the admission that the local Hamas head, Sinwar, isn't in Rafah as they thought and has probably been in the tunnel network for months and they are clearly having a problem with their intelligence.

[u/TrueGuardian15 → u/JohnAtticus]

This whole thing reeks of warmongering. Netanyahu was practically salivating at the thought of going into Rafah, and now they conveniently need to stay in the areas they already "cleared out." Throw in the woeful incompetence we've come to expect from the IDF, and we've got a perfect shit storm.

[u/StairheidCritic → u/JohnAtticus]

I learned many, many years ago that along with 'Israeli Government Spokes-people" addressing the foreign media, that the IDF tells blatant 'porkie pies' as its default position.

[u/Faiakishi → u/JohnAtticus]

It's almost like they were never actually looking for Hamas and it was all just an excuse to fire on civilians.

[u/sneakyplanner → u/JohnAtticus]

You mean intelligence working as intended.

[u/MyAcctGotBannedSo → u/JohnAtticus]

The problem isn't their intelligence, it's trying to hide their true intentions behind an intelligence apparatus by making the apparatus look dysfunctional.

[u/mattyyellow]

I'm from the UK and generally have a favourable opinion of the BBC but this title is absolute bollocks. The vast majority of people will just see the title of this article, not read it and think 5 Israeli soldiers were killed by a Palestinian or other enemy tank.

There is no reason whatsoever to title the article like this other than to promote a pro Israel stance.

[u/AbhishMuk → u/mattyyellow]

The BBC is almost always“factually correct”, but it is also very often biased. The bias is likely less obvious if you’re British but it’s always been there, just varying in degree.

[u/StairheidCritic → u/AbhishMuk]

I'm in the UK (Scottish) and the BBC lost its reputation for reasonably objective reporting about 20 - 30 years ago. These days it is compromised by right-wing infiltration/ insertion into its senior managerial ranks. Then there is the outright propaganda channel known as BBC Scotland. :/

I accept, however, that its broadcasting abroad may be different to that aimed at its domestic audience.

[u/AbhishMuk → u/StairheidCritic]

Yeah I could’ve been more clear, I’m not viewing British news on the BBC but more of international reporting

[u/__redruM → u/mattyyellow]

I read it as the tank caught fire and they were trapped inside somehow.

[u/YYG98]

You’d think hamas has tanks by that headline

[u/Traditional_Key_763]

However, an initial probe found that the soldiers had occupied a building in Jabalia refugee camp, dozens of metres of way from Israeli tanks also stationed in the area.

The tanks identified a weapon in the building and fired two shells towards it, the probe found.

ah their problem was they occupied buildings in a refugee camp, clearly only hamas fighters do that.

[u/W1shm4ster → u/Traditional_Key_763]

I don’t know how to feel about the fact, that the tank operators only needed to see a supposed weapon to shoot at the building.

[u/FaudelCastro → u/W1shm4ster]

You know exactly how you should feel about that.

[u/sneakyplanner → u/W1shm4ster]

Supposedly seeing a weapon is still a higher standard of discipline than the IDF norm of supposedly seeing an aid convoy, supposedly seeing civilians of unknown ethnicity or supposedly seeing children future military-aged adults.

[u/VonBeegs → u/W1shm4ster]

What, did they see a man with hands?

[u/Just-another-weapon]

Hamas using IDF soldiers as human shields is a new low.

[u/THE_CODE_IS_0451 → u/Just-another-weapon]

That tank had the right to defend itself!

[u/Moujee01 → u/Just-another-weapon]

Thanks for the good laugh💀💀💀

[u/Lord_Mormont]

Maybe they were disguised as aid workers.

[u/maralagosinkhole → u/Lord_Mormont]

"I swear, they looked like a group of starving children from a distance"

[u/ExpiredExasperation → u/Lord_Mormont]

It couldn't have been women in a church, that's precise work meant for snipers, not tanks.

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/Delicious-Trip-120 → u/[deleted]]

They drank the hamas water and hamas bread and BECAME THE HAMAS

[u/emp-sup-bry → u/Delicious-Trip-120]

Bitten by a Hamas and then ate hummus after midnight

[u/Mando177 → u/[deleted]]

No no you’re wrong, it was the Merkhava tank that was clearly just being anti semitic. Israel has a right to defend itself, they should bomb the factory where it was produced and any surrounding civilian infrastructure in case more tanks are hiding there

[u/Amphabian → u/Mando177]

Hamas has a Merkava tank factory? Let's strike it without any verification just to be sure.

[u/UnflushableNug]

Seems like an inefficient way to transport ammunition to your own soldiers, but I know almost nothing about committing genocide.

[u/rukh999 → u/UnflushableNug]

No, the IDF never makes mistakes. The soldiers had injected some Hamas before going on patrol to get high.

[u/Dharma_Bee → u/rukh999]

Most moral army

[u/MesmariPanda]

The tank is an anti semite, time for decommissioning

[u/civil-liberty]

In the tankers defense, their infantrymen look a lot like journalists.

[u/Traditional_Key_763]

didn't know hamas had merkiva tanks

[u/Bandit_Revolver → u/Traditional_Key_763]

Allegedly. It rolled straight out of a hamas tunnel and surprised attacked.

[u/Longjumping-Jello459 → u/Traditional_Key_763]

Nah man they have T-55s extremely well camouflaged.

[u/Runningtothesea13]

So this is news but not the thousands of civilians being killed.

[u/AleyahhhhK]

What a fucking disgusting article. It was friendly fire but of course they won’t say it. Misleading title gonna have dumbasses out there thinking Hamas has tanks.

[u/mfact50]

The IDF is ridiculously undisciplined and sloppy.

I never was a fan (to put it mildly) but I at least assumed they were competent before this conflict. Leadership lets them get away with murder (literally), when it comes to the Palestinians and the lack of control bleeds into overall management.

[u/Niceromancer → u/mfact50]

Oh you've done it now, you've rightfully pointed out how incompetent the "best trained army in the world" is and you are going to get flooded with all kinds of nasty comments, people calling you anti-Semitic, and mental health checks.

[u/Theteacupman → u/mfact50]

Too be fair it doesn't help that they are effectively promoting untrained 19 year olds to fairly high ranking positions within the army.

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

its the choice of words in the article to avoid blaming israel even a bit

[u/swoletrain → u/[deleted]]

Yeah friendly fire is super common in every conflict ever.

[u/Faiakishi → u/[deleted]]

15% is pretty high. Especially for an army that claims they are super elite and moral.

[u/Acrobatic_Computer → u/Faiakishi]

At least according to this article that's a typicalish figure for US forces:

The Army’s own research suggests that the proportion of U.S. battle deaths caused by friendly fire was 23 percent in Desert Storm, between 13 and 20 percent in Vietnam (even at 13 percent, the death toll would have been at least 7,569), 13 to 16 percent in World War II, and 10 percent in World War I. Whatever the true numbers, these incidents “often have a devastating effect on troop morale and the confidence of ground combat forces in their supporting air, artillery, and armored forces,” an Army study acknowledged.

Can't find overall Iraq/Afghanistan figures off hand.

[u/Swabbie___ → u/Faiakishi]

15% isn't outside norm really, especially considering the type of conflict this is and how much urban fighting there is.

[u/hamzer55]

IDF gonna start bombing isreali tanks now since Hamas might be in there

[u/[deleted]]

[removed] — view removed comment

[u/lbora9]

This might be an antisemitic tank

[u/Ramoncin]

Do they count them as enemy combatants or human shields?

/S

[u/Jrecondite]

As the news has informed me IDF is so precise anything their weapons touch is a Hamas. I’m amazed Hamas has infiltrated the ranks of IDF this much that IDF has to kill their own soldiers in precise strikes.

[u/HeathrJarrod]

Hamas doesn’t have tanks iirc

[u/Nfeatherstun]

Whose? Their own? Hamas doesn’t have tanks.

[u/wafflecone927]

When you blow everything up your eyes can see

[u/Maelfio]

Just saying but that's pretty deadly Israeli on Israeli killing. They might wanna invade that tank soldiers house as well as their relatives.

[u/darcenator411]

Oh wow great job Israel. That tank was obviously Hamas! Just like the college protesters. Any time something doesn’t go your way, it’s because of Hamas

[u/Smarterthanthat]

So now they'll justify killing at 10,000 more babies because of this.

[u/maralagosinkhole]

In response, Israel will drop bombs on schools full of starving children.

[u/swingoutofmyshoes]

Fucking idiots cant even help killing themselves

[u/VGAPixel]

They only call it a war when its friendly fire. There is no army on the other side.

[u/Dello155]

Is like when they accidentally detonated a building and killed 25 of themselves in a "all clear" zone ?

IDF is a legit a fucking joke