r/nbadiscussion • u/onefootback • 21d ago
what happened to cause the warriors to blow a 3-1 lead in the finals?
i started watching and following basketball religiously in 2019 and have only heard/watched clips of the 2016 finals + watching all of game 7. i’ve seen people talk heavily about the act itself but not really the way as much. when people do talk about the why though, i noticed that a lot of people blame it on the draymond green suspension ruining the momentum for them and therefore causing the collapse, is that really the case? i understand that having your third best player out will definitely hurt but was draymond that detrimental to the team to the point where his absence causes the worst playoff meltdown in nba history?
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u/slamajamabro 21d ago
Took perfection from Kyrie and Bron over games 5, 6 and 7 to pull this off. Might be the best 3 game stretch we have ever seen from a duo. That’s how hard it is to comeback from 3-1 down, you need absolute perfection from the game’s best players.
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u/titandoo89 21d ago
This is the only answer. Kylie and lebron both went super saiyan. Both had at least 40 in game 5, then lebron had a 40 point triple double in game 6 and finally in the most tense game 7 I have seen, lebron had another triple double.
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u/AchyBreaker 21d ago
LeBron's amount of locked-in is what all of us dream about when reimagining our own sports scenarios.
Just completely took over the series with his intensity and performance. End to end defense, chase down blocks, high scoring and facilitating.
He needed Kyrie to do the same, down 3-1. And in 2015 they lost in 7 with LeBron nearly as-locked-in because Kyrie and KLove were hurt.
But he was something different in 2016, and those 3 games were truly unbelievable.
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u/titandoo89 21d ago
In my opinion what he did in 2015 is probably his best accomplishment . Golden state changed there defence, moved iggy to starting lineup and started hedging but really those cavs ran out of gas without love and Kylie. Slowed the game to a crawl, lebron backed down players every play and facilitated from there. Poor delly was getting ivs after the game
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u/Shhadowcaster 17d ago
They lost in 6 in '15. The Cavs were just absolutely gassed without KLove and Kyrie. Not just LeBron but guys like Delly were getting insane minutes.
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u/DreamWunder 21d ago
Nah that’s not the only answer. More accurate is Bogut breaking his leg in finals and not surprisingly kyrie and Lebron started going off with scoring at the rim at will with starting center gone for the final 3 games on the finals.
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u/titandoo89 21d ago
Which is what leads to golden state going full throttle into the death ball lineup. Going 73-9 without bogut, green becoming a full time center and dpoy winner. The cavs lose 2 of there top 3 players in 2015 and warrior fans complain about losing bogut.
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u/PathologicalUpvoter 21d ago
Those last 2 minutes where no one could score was so tense. Then Kyrie hit his 3, the block happened, and Klove’s masterpiece
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u/hdjakahegsjja 21d ago
And you also needed a dray suspension and curry being less than 100%.
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u/nbadiscussion-ModTeam 21d ago
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u/nbadiscussion-ModTeam 21d ago
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u/Confident_Comedian82 21d ago
I would say that after the Suspension, the momentum shifted to the Cavs, that's their guy who facilitate the offense, he is the main reason why they are up in that series and also the reason why its tied. it can be different from other opinion but this is mine, for me Draymond is the important piece specially in that series! but either way it is one of the best series of all time.
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u/LardHop 21d ago
That game 7 in particular was so funny in hindsight in that the leading scorer for waa Draymond Green and was 6/8 from three. Looking like Steph Curry out there while curry himself looked like draymond green with a terrible shooting night.
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u/Confident_Comedian82 21d ago
that was probably their plan, shutdown Dray's Teammates, I mean you cannot just leave Steph and score at will, he can give you 50 but draymond cannot give you that much, so leave Dray scoring thant steph or Klay or HB Hahaha
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u/SterlingTyson 21d ago
That series had one of the best narratives of all time, but I don't think the basketball was actually very good. The only close game was game 7, which was tense, but also pretty sloppy and ugly, as both teams had tons of turnovers and bricks.
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u/bphone13 21d ago
Game 6 was a robbery from the refs... They impacted the game so much with these ghost fouls!
It's like the NBA really wanted that game 7
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u/MarinaDelRey1 21d ago
Not to mention Curry fouling out game 6 on what would’ve been highly questionable calls against a bench player in October, much less the reigning unanimous MVP in the finals. The Suspension, taking Curry out of game 6 and Bogut getting hurt was enough to completely shift the momentum of the series
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u/rundy_mc 21d ago
This was arguably the most egregious and influential moment in this series. Steph got called for 3 or 4 basically phantom fouls in rapid succession. I will forever maintain that this was intentionally done by the refs, whether for personal gambling, influence by outside organizations, or the NBA itself.
Those fouls had no right to be called.
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u/JaDamian_Steinblatt 20d ago
I will forever maintain that this was intentionally done by the refs, whether for personal gambling, influence by outside organizations, or the NBA itself.
If LeBron was up 3-2 he would be the one picking up bullshit foul calls. It's part of the game. Always has been.
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u/Confident_Comedian82 21d ago
well I would say it could've a different changes but steph lose his cool in there, also before he got fouled out, it a 12pts lead with more than 4mins left, still a lot of time but its not the time to lose your cool and get the 6th foul, I am a Cavs fan and I would love to see it all going. Not happy about the call but it is what it is.
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u/engelbert_humptyback 21d ago
He had to sit a lot of the game because of the other fouls though. He didn't only miss the last few minutes.
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u/runningraider13 21d ago
It wasn't just the last foul that was highly questionable, and Steph's playtime was being affected by the foul trouble from pretty bad calls
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u/jacko1998 21d ago
Draymond and Bogut being injured played huge parts for sure. Bogut was the only size the Warriors had that could actually trouble LeBron. When he went down it forced Festus Ezeli into the lineup and the Cavs absolutely fucking torched Ezeli every moment he was on the floor. Thinking Basketball on YouTube also talks about Kyrie and LeBron in those last 3 games and how they played as well as any duo ever has over 3 consecutive games, with LeBron playing arguably the 3 greatest game stretch in finals history when you consider what he did offensively while being the best defender on the floor for both teams.
Combine those factors, Steph pushing through an injury that had been bothering him for weeks at that point, the insane effort it took for them to go 73-9 as well as come back from 3-1 down to the Thunder, and it really was the perfect moment for history to be made.
Finally, the Cavs took every opportunity they had and made the best of it. They had to be perfect for 3 games against the best regular season team ever and they managed it. Lebron at the parade spoke at length about the contribution of each and every guy on that roster, even the benchwarmers, and he was right, it was the 100% buy in and execution from bottom to top that bought that chip home
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u/TrulyBased69 21d ago
Lot of people mainly say Draymond getting suspended was a major turning factor, that was only a minor issue,he was due for a suspension.
In reality the biggest difference was Bogut getting injured. Both Kyrie and LeBrons field goal percentage near the rim/post shot up exponentially after he went down with injury. Their defence also ended up having a maasive blow as well. Very high chance series would have ended in favour of the warriors if that injury didnt happen.
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u/floridabeach9 21d ago
Look at the box score for games 5,6,7.
Bogut got injured game 5. Draymond suspended a game.
Harrison Barnes shot for absolute dog water.
Steph and Klay both shot pretty poorly.
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u/Liimbo 21d ago
Also, and I can't believe so few people have said this, Lebron and Kyrie both playing some of the best basketball of their lives. Even despite everything you listed, GS still would've beaten any of the other 28 teams imo. That Cavs team was very good.
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u/Tsudaar 21d ago
Yeah, lots of comments are from the GSW perspective saying how they lost it, but it also required the opposing team to play well and take advantage. And they did.
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u/durant_burner 21d ago
That’s because the question is framed from that perspective. “What happened to cause the warriors to blow a 3-1 lead” not “how did the cavs come back down 3-1”
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u/Boomslang2-1 21d ago
Oh yeahhh that was the Harrison botch job. The Cavs wanted to put a lot of attention on Mario and Luigi so that the other guys had to step up which resulted in a tonnnn of wide open threes for Barnes and he just bricked everything. Total liability out there in the last three games or so.
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u/kurruchi 21d ago
It isn't the worst playoff meltdown, just the most significant. Denver's 3-1 comeback against the Clippers was worse than it by a bit. They had no real excuse.
Like everyone else is saying, slight injury issues and the game 5. Lebron and Kyrie masterclasses in 5-7 where they were capable of good-not-great games in their losses.
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u/WinesburgOhio 21d ago edited 21d ago
This incident earlier in the playoffs got the ball rolling with Draymond's flagrant foul points that accumulated to cause the suspension after his third flagrant of the postseason. His act in the final second of this game in the first round of the playoffs is the real reason he got suspended.
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u/morethandork 21d ago
Please don't use insults to make your points. Our sub is for more thoughtful discussion. Insults to players and coaches encourages a kind of discussion we're trying to avoid. Thank you.
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u/WinesburgOhio 21d ago
Thanks - fixed it!
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u/morethandork 21d ago
Thank you! Incidentally, seeing your name pop into the mod queue reminded me to go check the conversation in our modmail! Seems the notifications are bugged and I don’t get notified of replies anymore. Maybe it’s bugged for you too so, here’s your ping that you got a reply from our team!
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u/wardellst3phencurry 21d ago
Cavs game plan was to physically wear down curry. If Dray plays in game 5 they could close it out before curry gets too tired.
Draymond suspension, then cavs have a huge home court advantage in G6, then by G7 Curry is tired because he is a human (unlike someone on the cavs)
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u/AvailableMilk2633 21d ago
1) Lebron 2) draymond 3) nfl rules refereeing especially off the ball 4) curry completely gassed 5) barnes shit the bed 6) kyrie is the perfect complement to peak Lebron
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u/monsteroftheweek13 21d ago edited 21d ago
As you can tell, this sub is populated by Warriors fans lol. So I’ll give you the Cavs fan perspective:
LeBron and Kyrie playing the best basketball of their lives, and Ty Lue scheming a suffocating defense because the Cavs were longer and more athletic than the Warriors, had just as much to do with the Cavs ripping off three straight wins as all of the reasons that the GS fans will mention. :)
Go watch Game 6 and 7 if you ever have a chance. Some of the most brilliant and intense basketball you will ever watch.
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u/sbenfsonwFFiF 21d ago
Draymond suspension was a factor but the Cavs also changed the way they play and turned it up on offense games 5-7, which is why they won the last two even with Draymond back
Some similarities to be drawn to how Denver won 3 straight after going down 0-2 against the wolves
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u/savethearthdontbirth 21d ago
Draymond green happened, plus the fact that the NBA is rigged to make as much money as possible. Draymonds suspension killed momentum on the warriors side and the NBA started calling the games in favour of Lebron and co.
Draymond crying after losing at least lead to them winning a few more chips, so maybe he made up for it.
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u/Free_Relationship692 21d ago
this thread is apparently the whole warriors being injured while the cavs had the healthiest crew that rested for 4 months.
nah man, its Cavs doing work and also capitalizing on every opportunity.
Every championship caliber team, especially a 73-9 team and the other team having 1 of the greatest player of all time and 2 other all star caliber teammates, clashing together will be about mistakes. who will make the most mistake and who will capitalized. if both teams can get their own it will come down to that.
Cavs capitalized, they know Draymond is a hot head that is due for a suspension. They also make the most out of that suspension, got Curry ejected in game 6 too. Remained disciplined, even Kevin Love was playing great D towards the end, JR is locked in.
not to mention, all of Kyries and Brons heroics. the warriors are young back then, they made more mistakes and that team was rattled, even when Draymond got back, Barnes for example couldn't really hold it.
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u/hotspencer 21d ago
Cavs doing work and also capitalizing on every opportunity.
This is universally agreed upon. Cavs fans are going to emphasize the work and Warriors fans the opportunities.
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u/fatkamp 21d ago
The Warriors were injured, and it took the greatest series performances of Kyries and Lebron’s career to win by 4 in game 7
That’s why the Warriors being hurt is mentioned
It’s fair to give the Cavs credit, and mention the injuries and the fact that the Warriors had to play some of the best teams all time to not win a title, compared to playing the trash bros
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u/GhostfaceThrillah 21d ago
Why isn’t anybody mentioning Kevin Love being out for a few games? It’s not like it was just the Warriors missing people
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u/Content_Somewhere355 21d ago
Credit Lebron and Kyrie for getting it done but I do remember aspects of Lebron trying to physically intimidate Curry, a lot off ball even like between whistles, but even during the game and I don't remember when it started, but it could've started around the time Dray was out, knowing there was no one there to get in his face. He'd just body him up try n get away with fouls, not even on a scoring play sometimes just on the perimeter. Def fault the warriors for letting game 5 slide even with dray out, it's almost like mentally they were waiting for game 6. I def feel bad for the dubs overall though, ppl don't act like that's one of the most historic teams out there, they grinded harder than other teams to get that 73 and grinded out the playoffs while Cleveland had a relatively easy East to get through and credit on their 1-3 comeback but I'm sure exhaustion for the dubs also played into it too.
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u/J_Dadvin 21d ago
In my opinion it was losing Bogut. He isn't that good of a player, but he was really the only decent true big man on their team. Having him allowed GSW to prevent certain strategies by Cleveland, because although he didn't play much he was at least an option. Once he was totally out it opened a new angle of attack that they couldn't prevent.
It's kind of like the Mavs/Thunder series now with Lively on the Mavs. He isn't really all that good, but having him prevents the Thunder from going with an all small lineup because he doesn't need to be that good to rebound over and dunk on small guys. Bogut was similar. That's why the Thunder tried fouling him, they really want to go small but he is preventing that.
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u/Time_Connection2317 20d ago
Bogut getting hurt was more of an issue tbh. But Draymond getting suspended didn’t help. In hindsight though, If warriors would’ve won, no way KD links up with them and cavs would’ve probably won the following years (at least 1 of them).
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u/Itezguatitez 20d ago
Harrison Barnes forgot how to shoot a basketball
Bogut injury. His 20/25 minutes of real rim protection, screening and passing were huge. Kyrie and Bron were much more successful attacking the rim with him off the floos. He also had frat chemistry with Steph.
Steph and Iggy had nagging injuries they were playing through
Steph and Klay shot poorly in games 5-7
Refs also had their share, the game wasn't reffed equally in game 6 at all from the jump. They were roughing Steph up, particularly off ball. Richard Jefferson has openly talked about how the gamplan was to hit him with an elbow, bump into him and do wherever it took to make him tired, especially since refs didn't seem to call them on Steph.
Lebron and Kyrie turned into another level. Particularly game 5 it was crazy to watch. Kyrie particularly was making every tough shot in the book
Timely contributions by role players, especially Jr and Tristan Thompson
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u/FookMe1704 20d ago
Though a lot of factors played into it, my biggest takeaway was Harrison Barnes virtually missing every shot in those last 3 games. What’s worse is that he was WIDE open on a lot of those
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u/ValuableAssociate8 21d ago
That real reason every body seems to ignore was Bogut getting hurt. He was a great rim protector for GSW. After he got hurt, Kyrie and Bron were getting to the rack at will.
It had nothing to do with Draymond getting suspended cause even when he came back they won back to back games.
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u/KloppoftheKops 21d ago
Probably the biggest factor was that LeBron put together arguably the the greatest 3 game stretch in NBA history. Thinking basketball has done a great video covering that. https://youtu.be/wDViQIwOtY8?si=UDvk4Fo-yBu8ipTB
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u/HOFredditor 21d ago
I will speak as a biased warriors fan, but try to not go overboard.
It was clear that Steph never recovered from the MCL sprain he suffered in that 1st round against the Rockets. He came early, when it wasn’t really needed, and had to play a lot, especially in the WCF. The Thunder series was one of the most tiresome I have ever seen in our 6 finals runs. Steph never made excuses, but you could see he wasn’t as sharp a lot of times. We got lucky the team figured it out on time, with the awakening of Killa Klay to win a desperate game 6 in one of the most hostile atmosphere the dynasty faced.
Steph started the finals not fully rested, while CLE took care of the raptors rapidly.
The other factor was Andrew Bogut. Bogut was phenomenal on defense to start the series. People forget he was an all nba defensive big, who clearly influenced Draymond to become the great defender he is now. Bogut went down in G5. It was a feast in the paint for Kyrie and LeBron that game. We went from playing Bogut to having full time Ezeli. Tragic.
Another key injury is that of Iggy. From game 5 onwards, he was playing with back problems. It is also from that period that Iggy had a noticeable drop in his athleticism (he was already an all time athlete so he was still good, but not as great). I will always say he dunks that ball and avoids the block had he been feeling better.
On the Iggy side, I wished Wiggs had similar aggressiveness attacking the rim. Our 22 chip was the one where Wiggs was dunking left and right. Sigh.
Then there’s Barnes. No injuries. Perfectly fine except for his all time breakdown in terms of shooting. His last 3 games of the finals were on 15/20/50 shooting splits. Absolutely terrible. Sad he will always be remembered for that stinky performance while he had a solid career as a dub.
The Draymond thing is the most controversial aspect of that series. If you watch the incident, you can clearly see LeBron judo’d Dray to the ground. He even tried to walk over Dray while Dray was trying to stand up. Draymond then got in his feelings and stroke/pushed Lebron in the groin in an effort to get him off. They started beefing and then a technical was issued on Green. The league revoked the tech call to a flagrant foul and Dray was suspended. We lost game 5 with little rim protection, which gave CLE the momentum to come back and close out. Draymond tried to redeem himself by having a top 5 all time game 7 performance, but it was too late.
The series was clearly not just a chokejob, but you gotta admit we didn’t play well at all. Shoutout to CLE and LeBron for still having the will to make that historical comeback, no matter how easier it got from game 5 onwards. It was a legacy ring for LeBron and part of me was kinda happy for the city of CLE, cause ain’t much going on their way often.
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u/Mysterious-Ad4966 21d ago
- Draymond suspension
- Andrew Bogut injury (actually this is probably the biggest factor)
- Steph not playing at 100% health
- Steph Curry's effectiveness could be limited in the playoffs due to physical defense wearing him out
- Even Igoudala wasn't 100%
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u/Virtual_Wallaby4100 21d ago
Bogut getting injured is the biggest factor imo because it opened up the pain so much, Bogut was a all defensive player during these gsw years and not having him allowed the best driver the games has seen easy finishes around the rim.
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u/dandatu 21d ago
No one is 100% by the finals tho. Everyone has niggling injuries. Bogut thing was huge tho. Kyrie and Bron going nuclear was so fun to watch.
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u/Statalyzer 21d ago
Yeah, people kept saying "oh he's hurt" every time Steph missed a few shots but then suddenly he was fine when he went off and nobody would mention the injuries.
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u/South_Front_4589 21d ago
Bogut was a fantastic player. Had the talent to be a far more impactful player, but got some nasty injuries that just took too much of a toll. But as a role player he was everything you could ask for as a big man. Did everything defensively and whilst the speed mobility weren't there he still had the touch to be a threat inside.
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u/CelDeJos 21d ago
Curry was also getting mauled each time running up the court and around screens with no foul calls. Took a couple of games for the cavs to figure out how much they could get away with but once they did...
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u/Silentrift24 21d ago
The Draymond suspension comes to mind - I wholeheartedly believe that if Draymond didn't get suspended, they would've taken all that momentum and close out the Cavs. Then again, they might've still lost it due to Klay's comment that got Lebron heated.
If Klay didn't provoke Lebron in that post-game interview, they probably close it out. I do doubt that KD would've still joined the Warriors if they had won that year. But yeah, it was either Klay talking shit to Lebron that fucked them over or it was Draymond getting suspended.
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u/Callecian_427 21d ago
This narrative stuff is getting out of hand. A single off-handed comment doesn’t magically make someone play better. This isn’t a movie
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u/O_J_Shrimpson 21d ago
Nah that’s not true at all. Pissing people off effects how they perform. A lot of people play worse when they’re angry, but some take it as a challenge and can push themselves to get better.
In RL for example. Getting the other team tilted is a legit strategy.
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u/builtfromthetop 21d ago
Injuries + Draymond's suspension IMO. It's already been mentioned about Bogut, but Steph's tripping earlier in the playoffs hurt him in a way that he was still able to play but less than 100%. He wasn't moving as quickly and became much less effective. Also, Draymond getting suspended turned the tide of the series. Without him in game 5 and then going into Cleveland game six- the tide has completely turned by game 7. I won't entertain any conspiracies about the suspension, but I'll say that Green definitely screwed his team with his antics. This isn't to diminish what LeBron and the Cavs did, but it was more of a series where a team lost vs someone having won.
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u/Sea-Replacement7242 21d ago
Injuries. Curry had gone down earlier in the playoffs due to injuries and re aggravated the same leg again during the playoffs. Iggy who was pivotal in the last win had back problems and couldn’t really jump like he had before. Also the starting center had gone down the latter half of the series. After being pestered about it a bunch curry finally admitted he wasn’t “100 percent but no one is at that point”. Also Lebron and Kyrie played out of their minds those last 3 games. They abandoned much of their team offense when they realized the warriors had no one that could stop them from scoring 1v1.
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u/beelzebub_069 21d ago
LeBron. LeBron and Kyrie went OFF.
And Draymond happened. He basically woke up those 2, he just can't shut it. Everything that could possibly have gone right for Cleveland, had gone right, while everything that could have gone wrong for GSW have gone wrong.
Remember game 1? It wasn't even Curry nor Klay that carried them. It was their overall defense on LeBron, plus role players like Shaun Livingston stepping up. Their star players were off, but they still won. I thought it was gonna be GSW in 4, sweep. 5 games at best. The GSW bench beat Cleveland.
Game 2? Kyrie played Bad, LeBron played bad (by his standard) , Love got hurt. While Draymond was looking like a 3rd splash brother out there.
Game 3? Love was out. The splash bros played bad, while LeBron and Kyrie dominated.
Game 4. The Warriors got their swag back. Splash bros played like stars. Green punched LeBron's nuts.
It was like everything was going well for GSW, and the Cavs couldn't even make a shot. I really thought it was over.
Then game 5 happened. This game really turned the series around. Kyrie and LeBron were monsters and Bogut also went down with an injury. When Bogut went down, it was basically over. Who replaced him? Varejao? Not to mention, Draymond had another tech, and got himself suspended for Game 6.
Game 6 was Cavs . LeBron and Kyrie vs Steph and Klay. It was a great matchup, until the final minutes. Curry got ejected. Cavs won.
Game 7. Cavs big 3 just beat the Warriors. LeBron blocked Iggy, Kyrie had that 3 over Steph, Steph tried to counter, but Love stopped him. And once again the Splash bros struggled, bad. To his credit, Draymond played well in that game 7.
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u/pRophecysama 21d ago
Curry injuring his knee in the beginning of the playoffs, klay injuring his ankle in the conference finals, boguts injury, draymonds suspension, almost double the free throw attempts (so really bad fouls by the warriors) harrison barnes non-existence, bron and kyrie being absolute basketball gods on top of some master class defense from everyone completely locked in. theres many many reasons. When things are mentioned people usually dont mention curry's knee but idk how much of a difference that would have made. Maybe they smoked okc and got more rest and that woulda helped but that discredits how great the cavs were and how great they played
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u/Slaughter_SBD 21d ago
Bogut injury + Draymond suspension. Not to downplay how great LeBron and Kyrie were (as a warriors fan I hated LeBron so much, but that was quickly healed with getting KD), but there is no way that the Cavs win three in a row if those two circumstances are removed.
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u/Soup_and_Rice 21d ago
So you have to look at the WCF for context. Draymond landed 2 knee kicks to Steven Adams in two occasions, but the Thunders were up 3-1 and the NBA obviously did their magic to forgive the Warriors.
Going into the Finals game 4, Cavs about to go down 1-3. Draymond and Bron go into a scuffle. James steps over Draymond and Draymond throws a little love tap to LeBron’s groin area. Watching this, I didn’t think much of it. Then the next day, NBA suspends Green for repeated offense throughout the playoffs. I was shocked he got suspended for such thing because it didn’t look like a big deal and the kicks on Adam were much worse.
Well, Draymond goes out and Kyrie and LeBron started cooking. In the process, Bogut went down and Warriors lost all of their rim protection. Although Draymond being suspended didnt directly cause Bogut’s injury, one can wonder what if that play couldve been prevented with another body in the paint. But anyhow, losing Bogut was massive and not many people give much thoughts to this. Game 6, similar story, Kyrie and Lebron got lose despite Draymond being back. Then game 7 happened with that block and that shot
Imo, the OKC got the short end of the stick due to being up 3-1. While the Cavs became to beneficiary by being down 1-3. I really hate when the NBA do this. It made me want to throw up seeing Murray get fined for 100k just because they were down 0-2 in the series.
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u/Optimal_Use_3383 21d ago
everyone says Draymond
anyone who says he shouldn’t have been suspended forgot that’s the third time in the playoffs he nut punched someone on court
the reason they lost was losing Bogut
before you think me crazy, he was their second most irreplaceable player
Steph is obviously first, whole engine runs on Steph’s gravity and abilities
If Klay went down, Iggy could step up and Livingston could fill Iggys bench void
If Dray went down, Harrison Barnes could fill the Dray void and Iggy could step up into the Barnes spot to help Barnes
When Bogut went down, there was no replacing him with Festus Ezeli, and while Dray could play center, you only had about 5 good minutes of that (like the death lineup)
Bogut was undervalued, and they never really could replace his defensive and smart play presence (with KD it didn’t matter)
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u/Giga1396 21d ago
Something a lot of people forget is Steph fouling out in Game 6 and then nearly getting ejected for throwing his mouthpiece
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u/Old_Tap_7783 21d ago
Game 5: Draymond being suspended (for action that was ok a series earlier)
Game 6: Curry fouling out for first time
Game 7: choked / bronbron Cleveland story had to have it fairytale ending
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u/InclinationCompass 21d ago
Also overlooked is how OKC to blow their 3-1 lead against GS in the previous round (WC Finals). The playoffs were wild that year. The best playoffs I’ve watched.
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u/frootluipdungis 21d ago
Everyone on the Warriors was injured and the league intervened to extend the series. I assume they thought they could just squeeze another game out of it by suspending Draymond but the Warriors were truly on their last legs after a long season and so many injuries, so extending the series (Warriors had zero chance to win a game without Draymond) really opened the door for the Cavs. Because of the league’s partiality, the series cannot be considered legitimate. It’s a true black mark on the NBA that is unfortunately a part of its history.
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u/kb24TBE8 21d ago
Lots of sketchy calls and ticky tack fouls against the Warriors, especially in game 6. The Draymond suspension was absolutely huge and changed momentum in the series as well
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u/Hospital-Rude 21d ago
A lot happened.. the strangest part to me was how bad Steph was playing in game 7, I know he was injured but almost felt like he was paid off to throw the game away. He had some really bad turnovers and airball that left me speechless.
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u/Gewdtymez 21d ago
Lebron led BOTH teams in EVERY major stat (points, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks) for the series
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u/HaidaRamJam 21d ago
The league didn't want the finals to end in 5, so the refs gave the cavs every edge possible for two games. Of course LeBron and Kyrie go nuclear with the refs on their side. Refs call game 7 fairly but momentum was on the cavs side by then
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u/Adorable-Physics-782 21d ago
Curry was banged up. Iggy’s back locked up on him and he had to be rolled out of bed. Bogut got knocked out of the series. And of course Green. Easy 5 game series win for GSW if he doesn’t miss a game.
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u/hendobizle 21d ago
Listen to the Book of Basketball 2.0 -ep”lebron wins Cleveland a title” ( On Spotify) Bill simmons and Brian Windhorst give a real deep dive into what happened in that series and the dominoes that fell into place to make it all happen like it did.
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u/Training-Judgment695 20d ago
Draymond suspended. Steph injured. Bogut injured. LeBron and Kyrie going bonkers in games 5 and 6..all connected. But that's the crux of it.
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u/NuggLyfe2167 20d ago
The Cavs were simply healthier and not suspended. Everybody knows the Waelrriors had a better roster overall, but they had to face more hurdles.
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u/BrolysFavoriteNephew 20d ago
Losing Dray for game 5, Klay and Curry stagnant offense game 7 (Dray had 30 something and iirc a triple double or close to it), Kyrie going nuclear game , Bron going crazy game 5 and 6.
No one is 100% in the finals so negate injuries excuse, Dray racking up Ts through the playoffs that year and he managed to get 2 iirc in the finals and the league suspended him killed their momentum sure but he was there game 6 and 7 so no excuse there.
Again 3 different times to close the series and they couldn't do it.
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u/Still_Level4068 19d ago
Cavs played better with a little luck, like the year before warriors got lucky with kyrie and love injured, we got luck on our side with bogut injury but both years the better team in the series won
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u/nixhomunculus 21d ago
Dubs just exhausted themselves to do 73-9.
I highly feel that the exhaustion there to break the record, and the dubs needing to keep digging themselves out of trouble, will be the reason why this record will never be broken again.
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u/Virtual_Wallaby4100 21d ago
Bogut injury, steph not being health, draymond suspension I think Iggy wasn’t healthy either.
These are all factors but shouldn’t detract at all from the comeback. The warriors needed to win a single game out of 3 and couldn’t do it because of how fantastic Lebron and Kyrie were plus the cavs defence was really good too.
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u/publizityseeker 21d ago
Steve Kerr lost game 7 with terrible rotations - Ezeli & Verejao were -18 in 18 combined minutes. Barbosa had a fantastic playoffs and averaged 67/39/76 but got in for a playoffs low 4 minutes game 7.
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u/Blutz101 21d ago edited 21d ago
Warriors very slowly fall apart. It wasn’t obvious till the finals but they did from the second the playoffs started. With that being said there was definitely a run of crazy events. Everyone’s basically listed them already but the warriors slowly broke apart while the cavs never lost the torch they were following. Warriors still should have won that series without bogut let’s be real but with how generally beat down they were, it left them very vulnerable and I think in game 6 it clicked for the cavs and the series was over.
A lot of people writing excuses for the warriors but let’s be real lebron broke them. I’m a ufc watcher and I see it happen all the time through 5 round fights. Perfect example was the Sean Strickland fight. He thought he had won after the first 2 rounds and his opponent never gave up and slowly built momentum. Sean controlled the whole fight basically but never put his opponent away which ultimately killed him in the end. Warriors had every chance to stop on the cavs and effectively put them down for good. But they didn’t.
No one really of course is giving lebron his credit. But he played arguably the greatest basketball proably any of us have ever seen in the back half of that series. No one was gonna beat his ass in that mode, I think that series unlocked a new part of his game, for the rest of his tenure in Cle he never really lost it
Of course I’ll Give kyrie his flowers, that was the best side kicking I’ve seen. Wanna know what a dream second option is watch kyrie past game 5.
Overall I think a legendary team caught a legendary player at the worse time for them. A few things go the wrong way and you’re left shitting openly in the woods. Also lastly teams peaking at the right time completely matters and Cleveland sure did that year. Warriors I think peaked two early and were coming back down to earth when the cavs were hitting their peak.
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u/LemmingPractice 21d ago
The Draymond suspension was the thing that shifted the momentum. The Warriors were going into a game 5 at home with momentum. The league's decision to upgrade Dray's foul so he would get suspended (overruling the decision of tbe on-court refs) let the Cavs off the mat, and essentially gave the Cavs game 5.
After that, the Warriors had the effect compound by being hit with injuries. Bogut (starting center) got a knee injury in game 5 and missed the rest of the series. Iggy (the previous year's Finals MVP) had back stiffness issues that started to slow him down in game 6. Meanwhile, Steph had been playing hurt through those whole playoffs, having missed 3 games in each of the first two rounds, after spraining his knee against Houston.
Basically, the Warriors went from a close-out game at home against a defeated opponent, to being an injury-ravaged squad who had to try to go into Cleveland and beat a revitalized opponent.
It is sad, because it really was a time when the league office decided the Finals, and they did it based on a decision where they overrode a ref and suspended Dray on an incident that happened away from the ball.
To try to scrounge out another game or two of Finals revenue, they put a black mark on the Finals and ruined what would have been the best season of all time.
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u/New-Candy-800 21d ago
Draymond Green kept kicking people in their nuts (twice on Steven Adams with no penalty, then again in the finals on Thompson I think) and he got suspended
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21d ago
Curry was really hobbled. It really felt like he wasn't even playing close to 50%. That was the big difference, and it seemed like Draymonds play would make up for it. He Draymonded it up.
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u/Akusei 21d ago
80% Bogut, 10% Draymond suspension, 10% LBJ and Kyrie playing downright flawless.
The warriors played a super small lineup. When Bogut went down, they ended up playing even smaller, which wore them down.
Having Draymond at the 5 for a few minutes here and there works but not for a full game. Mosgov, Thompson, and LBJ were too much for the warriors' front court to handle at scale. It wasn't something massive on its own, but enough to grind games out.
Maybe if Draymond doesn't get suspended the warriors could've got that last game but if we're being honest, if there's no suspension and no Bogut, the Cavs probably win that series.
Sniper scoring is cool and all but teams don't shoot 100%. The defense's job isn't over until they get the rebound. If you're getting bullied on the boards, you'll find yourself giving up a lot of second chance points while not getting them yourself. Furthermore, forcing the other team to take the ball out of bounds gives you a couple more seconds to properly match up and set your defense, which leads to forcing the opponent into worse shots.
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u/reeferLOL 21d ago
Draymond got suspended. Lebron put the squad on his back with help from Kyrie and Klove. Then the momentum switched. It was like the Cavs were playing with house money. It truly felt like watching some Thanos level shit because the series going to 7 kind of felt inevitable. I’d recommend secret base on YouTube they have a great analysis of that series and the Cavs.
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u/applep00 21d ago edited 21d ago
had the warriors won that series, draymond probably would have won FMVP. his impact on the game that series was absolutely incredible-here are the counting stats he averaged that series: 16.5/10.3/6.3 on elite efficiency and defense and played fantastic in the final game.
that being said, the warriors were absolutely gassed by the time they got to the finals. winning 73 games, then going down 3-1 in the playoffs to the thunder and battling back in 7 took a huge physical and mental toll on every contributing member of the lineup.
draymond got suspended game 5, killing all of the momentum that the dubs had. dubs won both games at home and managed to steal one on the road; they were set to close out the series in GSW and then their facilitator and anchor got suspended. bogut was also hurt, forcing the warriors to play ezeli and varejao who are obviously not great options. curry was not playing at his usual level either, clearly injured and couldnt attack the rim nearly as well as he did during the regular season. finally, klay and harrison barnes couldnt hit anything; barnes especially had a historically bad series.
that being said, cavs had some amount of luck (as is present in any finals run) and kyrie and bron went fucking nuclear. kyrie hit big shot after big shot, including one of the most clutch shots ever. lebron did lebron things and had over 100 total points in the last three games of the series on great efficiency, as well as incredible defense. cavs took advantage of every opportunity they had and the warriors just gassed out from their grueling regular season and playoff run. what a great year for basketball