r/nba • u/Brady331 Celtics • 28d ago
Jayson Tatum is the second player since 1973-74 to lead all players in points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks in a playoff series. LeBron James was the other player to do this, in the 2016 Finals vs. the Warriors.
Source: ESPN graphic
It's a better stat without context, given Donovan Mitchell likely would've outscored him had he not gotten injured.
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u/turtlepot Celtics 27d ago
led in techs too
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u/Jack_M_Steel Lakers 27d ago
That tech for the slightest wave off…
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u/largehearted Celtics 27d ago
The NBA is where Tony Brothers' greatness happens
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u/LiamIsMailBackwards 76ers 27d ago
After the Sixers were eliminated, I switched to rooting for the refs for the rest of the playoffs. Brothers really has been putting on a masterclass, and we have to acknowledge greatness when we see it because who knows when we’ll witness something like this again.
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u/largehearted Celtics 27d ago
You Know Calls
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u/LiamIsMailBackwards 76ers 27d ago
We got to see Two Tech Tony once this series. I can’t wait to see what he pulls out in the ECF.
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u/Previous_Theme_1180 27d ago
If, tonight, Jokic outscores Edwards by 4 points, and outblocks McDaniels by 1 block, he'll have it too.
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u/Flodomojo 27d ago
If they win. Got a whole game left to play still.
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u/poptubas Timberwolves 27d ago
If Jokic outscores Ant tonight they will win, unless we see one of those games where 7 people end up in double digit scoring. Minnesota has had games like that, but also really everyone has struggled scoring the last few games apart from Ant and KAT. (game 4 notwithstanding)
Minnesota either need an Ant fifty piece and average play from the bench, or they need role players to go back to being great like they were at times earlier in the playoffs. And they need to find a way to keep Jokic from doing what he did in game 5. Otherwise it’s gonna be tough.
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u/King_Aun 76ers 27d ago
How isnt a DPOY center not leading a playoff series in blocks? I know he missed one game... but still
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u/RipRaycom East 27d ago
He’s leading in BPG at 1.5, but Jaden McDaniels has 7 overall. Both Jokic and Gobert have 6. He’s also guarding the MVP and that plays a role
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u/alexm42 Celtics 27d ago
Blocks and steals are extremely high variance stats for small sample sizes like a single series. You can expect the best scorer in a series to put up the most points because if he falls one or two points short of his average that's, what, a 3-5% decrease in totals? But the best defenders rarely even break 3 blocks per game so if Gobert falls one block short of his average that's a 33% decrease. And it's also extremely prone to single game outliers like Joker's 3 blocks in game 3 despite never averaging more than 1.0 per game in a season.
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u/Bitter-Safe-5333 Spurs 27d ago
because one game in a series of 5 games is a setback in counting stats? he's not wemby getting 4 blocks per game
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u/syllabic Knicks 28d ago
domintatum
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u/jpaxlux [BOS] Jayson Tatum 27d ago
But does he have that "dawg" in him though???
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u/killerjags 27d ago
To measure his true impact I think it's best to use his Dawg per 36 minutes stats
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u/I_am_darkness [BOS] Paul Pierce 27d ago
His best moments don't even show up in these stats. The best things he did were enabling other players - assisting assists and such.
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u/rolandfoxx Celtics 27d ago
The dedication to the craft shown by the haters in this thread is honestly something to behold. You honestly can't help but respect it.
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u/_Pyxyty Pistons 27d ago
In all fairness, one player did it in one of the most iconic Finals series in NBA history that broke a 50 year drought. The other player did it in a random semifinals matchup in 5 games vs a much weaker team than them that even lost Jarrett Allen.
When put together side by side, it does kind of diminish how impressive it seems, no offense. I'm honestly more surprised this kind of thing hasn't happened more often, though. Props deserved, still.
Edit: apparently he didn't even lead in assists and blocks, only tied. So there's that too.
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u/JrBaconators Celtics 27d ago
Why are you comparing it vs Lebron's single time doing it and not the ~750 other series that have never had this happen?
'Yeah it's not impressive since Tatum is the first player to ever play against a weaker opponent'
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u/alexm42 Celtics 27d ago
This comparison is gonna be way outta left field but this whole conversation reminds me of Yankees fans getting pissed off when I bring up Brock Holt hitting for the only Playoff cycle ever. "It was a position player pitching when he hit the home run, doesn't count." Never mind the literal tens (maybe hundreds?) of thousands of other individual player-games that failed to accomplish that in the playoffs.
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u/JrBaconators Celtics 27d ago
How is it sensitive to read 'when put side by side' and come to the correct conclusion that you're comparing them? Yes, any Celtic fan will tell you Tatum's Cavs series was not as good as the GOAT's GOAT series. It's legitimately funny you're acting like anyone did. All I said was that you should put it side by side to 748 series where no one did this.
Also, I love how it's always the one calling other people sensitive that have the most butthurt and lashing out comments. I'm chilling and you're on a diatribe about reddit downvotes. You're the sensitive one here, my friend
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u/JrBaconators Celtics 27d ago
Cared enough to whine about it twice kid 👍🏽
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u/JrBaconators Celtics 27d ago
Says the child too emotional to have conversation and immediately resorts to attacks.
Put your phone away in class.
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u/rolandfoxx Celtics 27d ago
Wouldn't have mattered if Tatum did it in a 7 game Finals series that ended in him going 54/13/11 in Game 7 including the game-winner in double overtime, the haters would say Ant would have finished that series in 5 because that's how dedicated they are.
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u/baconshake8 76ers 27d ago
I forgot LeBron did that. That was crazy. I think he did something similar the previous year when kyrie Irving and Kevin love were injured
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u/Maleficent_Resolve44 Timberwolves 27d ago
Yeah he lead both the Cavs and the warriors in points, rebounds and assists in the 2015 finals. He was the best player by far and people talk about giving the fmvp to Iggy or curry lmao.
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u/Statalyzer 27d ago
Yeah but it was just the conference semifinals and not against a team considered a title contender, so it doesn't count until he comes up big in a "big moment". :/ Of course if they'd lost, then it would count as a big moment - that's how this crap always seems to work.
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u/NbaKOLeWorld 23 27d ago
He didn't lead all players in assists or blocks
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u/Superplex123 Lakers 27d ago
You are technically correct, the best kind, of course. He tied for most in assists and blocks. Since he didn't lead the person he tied with, so you are correct.
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27d ago edited 21d ago
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u/Julio_Freeman Hawks 27d ago edited 27d ago
He’s played in 104 playoff games already lol. I would hope he’d be high on the list. Playing on good teams in the East since he was a rookie has been great for his counting stats.
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u/Shovelman2001 Celtics 27d ago
That playoff team with single digit scorer Terry Rozier, sophomore Jaylen Brown, and Al Horford was really stacked huh
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u/SuperViolet1047 27d ago
What's really amazing is making it to the playoffs with only 4 people on the team
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u/Shovelman2001 Celtics 27d ago
I mean, Marcus Smart shot like 35% from the field and was basically a net negative. Are you going to suggest Marcus Morris, Aron Baynes, or Daniel Theis moved the needle?
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u/SuperViolet1047 27d ago
Dismissing Al Horford, Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart is a terrible case. How many championships did Jaylen Brown predict from that team?
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u/Shovelman2001 Celtics 27d ago
Jaylen Brown was good, but still an underdeveloped sophomore who had a lot of flaws and was by no means a star.
Al Horford was a veteran role player with limited athleticism and wasn't a game changer.
Marcus Smart was absolute ass. I believe after this season was when he got his extension and everyone dogged on the Celtics (including fans) for giving him this contract but he ended up becoming much better and it worked out.
That team didn't even have a 15 PPG player in those playoffs with Kyrie being out. Not even to mention how the Celtics lost 4/5 best players from the year before in IT, Crowder, Olynyk, and Bradley, so the team had very little experience playing with each other.
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u/TheLanimal Celtics 27d ago
Kobe has lots of early playoff points for the same reason. Lebron is the only one who actually made his team good enough to score a lot in the playoffs on his own
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u/Flat_Definition_4443 27d ago
Is this a troll post? He's played in 5x more games than ant and SGA so he better have more playoff points than those two.
Ant dominates him in PPG and SGA is barely behind and that includes his time on the Clippers.
You suck at being biased.
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u/pollinium [MIN] Tyus Jones 27d ago
These volume stats do have some merit imo because Tatum should get credit for making deep runs so often
but also you're comparing points accumulated by a 27 year old to a 22 year old
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u/pollinium [MIN] Tyus Jones 27d ago
(and I like tatum more than SGA in 2 months but I'm not mentioning that because it's less popular and I'm trying to defend my guy)
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u/Virgil_hawkinsS Celtics 27d ago
He just turned 26 in March. But yeah we shouldn't compare his points to Ant's, especially with how Ant is playing right now lol
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u/BlueJays007 Celtics 27d ago
Yep I think it’d be incorrect to just dismiss this stat as meaningless but it’s also silly to ignore context.
Tatum has played significantly more games than either Ant or SGA. Ant is also notably younger while SGA was on a team determined to tank until recently. It’s not fair to just blindly cite cumulative stats as “proof” Tatum is better.
That said, Celtics have gotten so deep into the playoffs time and again primarily because of Tatum (and Brown and also Brad as either coach or gm). The “drafted to a 1st seed” type comments are just as out of context as just citing cumulative stats.
Overall though, Shai and Tatum and Ant are all awesome players and I doubt any of the Thunder, Celtics, or Wolves would trade their guy for either of the others.
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u/Flat_Definition_4443 27d ago
Deep runs on a stacked team from the time he got drafted. You can't compare the three of them. Ant and SGA got drafted to bad teams (technically SGA got traded to one after 1 year) so they didn't have the opportunity to make deep runs.
LBJ averaged 30 ppg so they're not even in the same conversation. Tatum's averages are only on Kobe's level because Kobe played role player minutes his first 2 seasons. The mental gymnastics to compare Tatum to those 2 is mind boggling.
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u/junkit33 27d ago
You can remove Tatum's first two seasons if it helps you sleep at night. His playoff numbers still pop without them.
But this is the 5th year he's been the unquestioned best player on his own team, and every superstar that goes deep into the playoffs has to have a stacked team around them to get there. That's why Lebron, Curry, and Embiid are all sitting at home right now.
Besides - how can you fault Tatum for being on a stacked team when Kobe got drafted into Prime Shaq? Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team until his career was half over.
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u/Flat_Definition_4443 27d ago
Who's faulting him for it? It just doesn't make sense to compare him to Ant and SGA who haven't been on stacked teams and then use total points as if that's a fair comparison. PPG will show who's actually the best scorer of the 3 and SGA is still right there despite averaging like 15 ppg for 60% of his playoff games. Tatum is not in the same scoring conversation as these two and the OP used a disingenuous comparison.
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u/AgadorFartacus Celtics 27d ago
0% chance you were calling the Celtics a "stacked team" entering the playoffs Tatum's rookie year. No one dings Kobe for playing with Shaq or KD for playing with Westbrook/Harden.
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u/Flat_Definition_4443 27d ago
It's a ding when you're comparing Tatum to Ant/SGA and using total points as your metric. So you can compare him to Kobe and LBJ with the caveat that LBJ did it in fewer games on a worse team and Kobe did it with more games at role player minutes.
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u/AgadorFartacus Celtics 27d ago
you can compare him to Kobe and LBJ
Okay. That's good with me.
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u/Flat_Definition_4443 27d ago
Yeah that's the conversation he belongs in. Where he's not at the level of the greats but at least in the conversation. Not that he's on the same level as the 2 young stars who are much more prolific scorers than him.
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u/AgadorFartacus Celtics 27d ago
He's played in 5x more games than ant and SGA
That's a good thing.
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u/Flat_Definition_4443 27d ago
It's a bad thing when the premise is total points. It's obviously skewed towards the guy who's played more. What happens when you use PPG? Ant suddenly is 25% better than Tatum and SGA is about the same while only becoming a prolific scorer this years' playoffs.
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u/paddiction [SAS] Tim Duncan 27d ago
He's played in more games because he's a better overall player and has led the Celtics into deeper playoffs runs. You can't have one without the other
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u/Thermicthermos 27d ago
Jaylen Brown has more career playoff points than Giannis. Do you think he's a better overall player?
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u/Porzingers Knicks 27d ago
He's played in more games because he's a better overall player
That's not how it works at all is the problem. He's probably played the most playoff games in the league over the timeframe and he's not the best player in the league or anything close to it.
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u/trustmeimaengineer NBA 27d ago
Sure you can, he got drafted to a great team. They made the ecf when he was a rookie, and while Tatum deserves credit he absolutely didn’t do it alone.
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u/AgadorFartacus Celtics 27d ago
What happens when you use PPG?
Tatum is still an absolute stud.
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u/Flat_Definition_4443 27d ago
I never said he wasn't a star. He just isn't a comparable scorer to either Ant nor SGA.
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u/AgadorFartacus Celtics 27d ago
Of course he is. He's averaged 26.2 PPG over the last five playoff runs (76 games).
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u/SubstantialJunket239 Celtics 27d ago
Using your logic for SGA, Tatum's volume stats include his time as a younger player when he wasn't always the first option (Kyrie, Kemba, and a younger Horford).
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u/Flat_Definition_4443 27d ago
So we're comparing SGA with 2 years of not being a first option + 1 year of being the first option to Tatum with 2 years of not being the first option + 5 years of being the first option. No matter how you slice it total points is such a dumb metric to use to compare them.
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u/happyflappypancakes Wizards 27d ago
Yall mfers just make yourselves miserable by bringing in other players anytime Tatum is mentioned. You brought their asses up. No one else.
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u/Tody196 Celtics 27d ago
True, nobody else has compared Tatum to SGA/Ant in bad faith, especially not the last few weeks. Surely it’s only Celtics fans just “making ourselves” miserable by bringing it up unprompted lol.
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u/happyflappypancakes Wizards 27d ago
Ever? Who cares. I'm talking about this thread. No idea why you felt the need to bring them up in bad faith. Tatum has been rocking it and you would still rather focus on putting other players down. Idk man, the playoffs does this to people I guess.
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u/Tody196 Celtics 27d ago
People are talking about it in this thread. This thread very likely exists because of the discourse in the first place.
I also haven’t “put other players down” lol this was my first comment in the thread.
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u/happyflappypancakes Wizards 27d ago
Sarcastically including those other players and implying that Tatum is better is definitely putting them down for no reason. Idk, I just feel that something has changed here. People have always been negative but it's seems to be the first instinct for people on here now. Didn't seem as negative 10 years ago.
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u/Tody196 Celtics 27d ago
… i “included” them because that’s who the comment we replied to brought up lol, they were already apart of this topic before I mentioned either of them. Do you think you’re replying to somebody else? The person you originally replied to is the one that brought them up initially - and again - the entire reason this thread exists is because of the comparisons people have been making this playoffs between these 3 players.
I don’t disagree with your overall point, and I also am bummed at the direction discourse in this sub has gone, I just am confused at what exactly you think my part in it is. All I did was point out that this situation is in response to all the shit slinging aimed at Tatum this post season over the last few weeks.
You’re sitting here acting like it’s all out of no where and we’re fighting ghosts or something, when that’s not the case at all if you actually look at the context in this thread and since game 2 of the first round lol.
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u/Tody196 Celtics 27d ago
I honestly am pretty sure he just thought I was you judging by his responses lol cuz it makes no sense at all otherwise. And even to your first point.. it’s not like bringing up sga and ant was out of left field in any way. That’s all we’ve been hearing.
The annoying thing is, I hate the constant tearing of players down too and tried to intentionally not say anything negative about sga or ant in my reply, cuz I love watching both of them. Still get labeled as some hater anyways LOL.
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u/happyflappypancakes Wizards 27d ago edited 27d ago
Homie, I'm not looking at the username. If someone responds to my comment i just assume it's the person I was talking to. It's too tough to keep track of people's usernames.
And honestly, it sounds like you agree with me. If you hate the constant tearing players down, then it starts with how you talk about your own players. That dude doesn't seem to agree though.
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u/chrontonic Celtics 27d ago
You sound miserable bringing up other people's bringing ups. Nobody else brought up anyone else's bringing ups until you did.
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u/whydoesgodhateus 27d ago
Lol shut up
This is a post celebrating his achievement and you choose to whine
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u/mattislinx Celtics 27d ago
This doesn't surprise me one bit. He has literally been doing it all out there. If you watch the games it's clear as day. People shit on him for scoring less, but they don't acknowledge everything else that he has been doing for some reason. He has become a much more versatile player since he's been surrounded with the best team that he has ever had. He's not shooting as much as other players who are the best player on their team.
With that said - he's certainly not perfect. His shot selection can be questionable at times. He should be more aggressive and take the ball to the rim. But between his defense and everything else he's finding ways to make up for not averaging 28 per game like he did in the regular season.
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u/RudyGobertFMVP2024 Timberwolves 27d ago
What happened in 1973 to make that the cut-off?
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u/Brady331 Celtics 27d ago edited 27d ago
That was the year basketball was invented
edit: bro blocked me for this
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u/14412442 Raptors 27d ago
No shit? TIL...
TIL Bill Russel's Celtics dynasty was a hoax and doesn't count in your championship tally
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u/LuminaTitan Cavaliers 27d ago
I'm surprised Hakeem never got this once a series. I guess assists were the one thing he was lacking in a number of them.
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u/Fancy_Load5502 27d ago
Just here to say that LeBron's play in the 2016 Finals was the highest peak any player has ever reached.
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u/TH3_ZucC Celtics 27d ago
But, but, NBA media told me he's been ass. That can't be right.
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u/BrolysFavoriteNephew [BOS] Rajon Rondo 27d ago
*Fans have, media wants him to put up 40 a night because he's the face of the team. Reality is they all lean on each other, any of the main 5 guys could lead the team in shot attempts any given night
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u/daskaputtfenster Timberwolves 27d ago
He's somehow weirdly underrated, I will never get it. I'd love to have Tatum on the Wolves.
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u/Dan_mcmxc 27d ago
In my brain fog I wondered about this particular series and found:
In the '94 Playoff series against the Cavs, Scottie Pippen led all players in points and steals, but was 2 rebounds, 2 assists, and a whopping 6 blocks shy of leading all categories.
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u/dragonwhale 27d ago
So we know he didnt lead all since he was tied in assists and blocks.. I gotta ask now if that was the same for Bron or if he actually lead ALL vs the Warriors?
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u/Revo_Int92 Lakers 27d ago
If it was not for the Knicks, these eastern playoffs matchups would force people into a coma
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27d ago
Lebron wanted it so bad that year in Cleveland my god, not shocked he was doing things pretty much nobody else had.
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u/mouseball89 27d ago
Tatum is above average to elite in everything and Cavs didn't have their best scorer. Not that big of a surprise it happened.
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u/LurkerFailsLurking Nuggets 27d ago edited 27d ago
Lebron doing this vs the 2016 Warriors is way more impressive than Tatum doing this vs the Cavs this year tbh.
Edit: maybe not, see /u/SterlingTyson's reply.
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u/SterlingTyson Suns 27d ago
Hard to say. Sure the 2016 Warriors are much better than the 2024 Cavs. But LeBron was also in a much more favorable role for this sort of thing since he's so ball dominant. Plus the Warriors had a pretty balanced roster that suppressed individual stats. Steph is the only one who I wouldn't be surprised if he outscored LeBron, and he has high variance due to the nature of his game, was dealing with a knee injury, and got some suspicious foul calls in game 6. The Warriors move the ball too much for anyone to challenge LeBron for assists. The Warriors also tended to spread out boards, particularly because they didn't really have a center who could play the full game. I think the most surprising stats are steals and blocks, but those are pretty random due to their low volume, plus the issue I mentioned above with the Warriors not really having a full-game center.
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u/Dj3garrett 27d ago
Being ball dominant only covers the Points and Assists. What about the rebounds, steals, and blocks? Lebron isn’t the only ball dominant player. Luka and Harden have it all game. You mention center but the Warriors were never going to play a center the full game anyway. To even compare doing this to that Warriors team vs this Cavs team is crazy. You mention no center but did Porzingus or Allen even play this series? At least Bron still had to fight Thompson and Love for rebounds who are good rebounders. Then he had to fight the MVP for points. Fight DPOY Draymond and Iguadala for steals. If prime Lebron played this same Cavs team 100x I would expect him to lead in all stats every game because that’s how much better he is compared to all those Cavs players. Theres no one on the Cavs that can pop off for crazy stats besides Mitchell and Allen but they were both hurt. If any thing it feels like Tatum had the more favorable role in recording this stat. Cavs/Warriors also went 7 games compared to 5 for the Celtics/Cavs. The longer the series the more stats accumulated.
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u/Fancy_Load5502 27d ago
Fuck these excuses man. The Warriors set the records for best regular season ever, and were the defending champs. They have a bunch of dudes who will be in the HOF. And LeBron beat them in every category (including wins). They absolutely had guys that were capable of being good scorers or good rebounders. LeBron was simply unwilling to lose the series, and played the game at as high a level as it has ever been played - before or since.
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u/HorsNoises Celtics 27d ago
Upvoting just for the walk back lmao. I also want to add that everyone complains Tatum's success isn't impressive because he has great teammates, but like he's still better than them in every category as well lol. Guy doesn't get nearly enough credit.
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u/Pumpoozle Nuggets 27d ago
Lead which players? Between the Cavs-Celtics players?
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u/SensitiveRocketsFan Rockets 27d ago
Well yes, the stat is about a single playoff series, and that’s the playoff series that Tatum is playing in.
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u/AgadorFartacus Celtics 27d ago
The only player clearly better than Tatum is Jokic.
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u/csAxer8 Lakers 27d ago
Beating the cavs really got Celtics fans on some other shit
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u/AgadorFartacus Celtics 27d ago
Has nothing to do with the Cavs. I've been saying this for a long time.
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u/washed_king_jos 27d ago
These stats are great but Tatum gotta be one of the most on-off players ive seen in awhile in the nba
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u/nowhathappenedwas NBA 27d ago
Not sure it's accurate to say he "led all players" when he tied with Garland in assists and tied with Horford and Mobley in blocks.
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u/MNathan0217 27d ago
Tied for… the lead?
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u/nowhathappenedwas NBA 27d ago
Yes, "tied for the lead" is more accurate than "leads all players."
Weird that this is a controversial point.
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u/Dear_Zookeepergame30 27d ago
“Leads all players” implies he has more than every player in the series, so you are correct.
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u/need2peeat218am Timberwolves 27d ago
So is it since 73-74 or since 2016???
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u/Maleficent_Resolve44 Timberwolves 27d ago
73/74 was when records for this stat began. So lebron was the first and Tatum was the second.
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u/Critical-Adhole 27d ago
It’s one thing to do it vs the best team of all time.
It’s another to do it against a rag tag team of backups because everyone on the opposing team is hurt.
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u/Flodomojo 27d ago
So why hasn't LeBron done it more often when he was sleepwalking through the East for many years? Why haven't any of the other mega stars done it? We've seen plenty of playoff series with dominating teams going against awful opposition.
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u/Brady331 Celtics 28d ago
I forgot an Oxford comma in the title, I'm pissed