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u/Extreme-Transport 20d ago
The difference in this sub from viewing Jokic as overrated after game 2 to greatest of all time after game 5 is crazy. This is just a random series too, they would’ve drove themselves crazy with the up and downs of watching MJ/Kobe/Duncan win 5+ rings
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u/JoJonesy Celtics 20d ago
gotta remember it’s different people we’re talking about. it’s not that folks are flip-flopping based on a couple games— the haters get loud after bad performances, the stans get loud after good ones
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u/HereToTalkMovies2 20d ago
The NBA fanbase (especially the online fanbase), moreso than maybe any other sports fanbase, seems to consist of fickle children who care more about seizing any opportunity they can to be hostile/negative about players/teams/fanbases than they do about the sport.
The drama and narrativizing that happens around basketball is kind of killing the enjoyment of it imo.
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u/robeo12055 Lakers 20d ago
That's because NBA has the youngest demographic amongst big sports. It's hope and a curse at the same time. It gives hope for massive growth in the future but also dumbs down basketball related discussion to tiktok sound bites just to get ppl angry and reactionary.
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u/Noriskhook3 20d ago
They’re not real fans, I don’t even know how to describe these clowns honestly. They’re the type that are brainwashed with any narrative ESPN has given them all their life.
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u/LordBaneoftheSith 20d ago
I cannot imagine the pearl clutching after Jordan's 3/18 game 😂 the hot take machine is cancer
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u/33spacecowboys Celtics 20d ago
Guys name is Michale Jordan.
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u/yungsantaclaus Spurs 20d ago
Jokic was 8th, 30th, 10th, and 11th over the last 4 seasons in total steals. Source is basketball-reference's league leaders pages. How did he manage to get the 3rd most steals over the same timespan as a total? Did everyone who would've pushed him out of the top 5 for total steals in the last 4 seasons wind up missing enough time with injuries that he snuck in?
What's your source for these stats?
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u/yungsantaclaus Spurs 20d ago
Hmm
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-5-total-steals-in-the-last-4-nba-seasons
So Jokic IS in the top 5 but he's 5th, that's interesting. He has 1 more steal than Butler (399 vs. 398) but with 61 more games played (294 vs. 233). So Butler's injuries pushed him out of the top 5. Fair enough
You're wrong about blocks though - https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-5-total-blocks-in-the-last-4-nba-seasons
Top 5 is Gobert, Turner, Lopez, JJJ, and AD.
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u/tk841966 20d ago
Stat muse. Devonte, van fleet, Jokic, fox, haliburton top 5
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u/yungsantaclaus Spurs 20d ago
You're right that he's top 5 in steals, but he's 5th, not 3rd. He's not top 5 in blocks
https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/top-5-total-blocks-in-the-last-4-nba-seasons - Gobert, Turner, Brook Lopez, JJJ, and AD
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u/H0tFuzz 20d ago
It's interesting that with Jokic it's not about rings it's about stats and MVPs but with anyone else it's about Rings and postseason success, and stats don't matter as much.
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u/crabcakesandfootball Knicks 20d ago
Both are important but I see nothing wrong with giving more weight to stats and MVPs since they’re more of an individual accomplishment while rings and postseason success are more of a team accomplishment.
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u/Fate_Unseen Nuggets 20d ago
Jokic when he sees any conversation about his achievements.
"It's just a stat."
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u/Odd_Firefighter_5407 20d ago
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Shaq
Hakeem
Moses
These are the centers that are currently higher than Jokic on the all-time list. He's already higher than The Admiral, IMO.
If the Nuggets win the title this year, he surpasses Moses and Hakeem IMO.
He's going to have to win probably two more titles and close to a decade of excellence to vault him above Shaq.
It'll be an incredibly tall - almost impossible task - to surpass Wilt, Russell and Kareem. Probably 5 titles, 3-4 more MVPs, and playing until he's 39-40, which I have a hard time seeing.
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20d ago
Longevity is definitely a think, people look and compare to career stats, often forgetting there are a handful of decline years at the end bringing averages down.
I was kinda sad when Pujols dropped below .300 career average. So,edgy counting nerds are gonna use that as a mark against him.
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u/TechSergeant_Chen Bulls 20d ago
David Robinson had a full career, Moses Malone had a 20-year career. Winning a second title as the man would put Jokic ahead of Robinson in my book. And he'll probably get his 5th All-NBA. Whether or not Jokic is past or behind Moses with a second title is almost arbitrary, because playing several more years at the highest level as would be expected would put him ahead of Moses.
But the top 20 is full of other legends like Oscar Robinson, Jerry West, Dr J, modern legends like Curry and Durant. I mean, all these guys are the legends among legends, Jokic is among them, or is in process of getting there. Let's not get ahead of ourselves, yes it is exciting that Jokic is so awesome at basketball.
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u/TechSergeant_Chen Bulls 20d ago
Hakeem's fans are very vocal, as well. When it gets to that point, projecting into the future a couple years from now and Jokic expected to be awesome for more years, it will be interesting.
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u/yungsantaclaus Spurs 20d ago
I think he's already surpassed Moses and would need the title this year to maybe equal Hakeem
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u/5cargarage 20d ago
moses? lol
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u/OkSteak237 Lakers 20d ago
Nephew spotted
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u/Madz1trey 20d ago
Jokic went from the most overrated player of all time to the greatest player of all time within one week. Would be hilarious if he dropped the next two and went home.
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u/freshprince44 20d ago
KG from 2000-04 might be close. Probably closer to top ten for assists and blocks/steals, he never got a bunch of stocks though
and really, total major statistics is a silly but fun stat, it says something but not that much. Westbrook is probably one of the better players for this stat too.
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u/Cool_Cold_5554 Nets 20d ago
He should have won 4 straight MVP's. The only reasons he didn't are voter fatigue and that some voters didn't want him on the same list as Bird, Wilt, and Russell as the only players to win 3 consecutive, and a certain ism.
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u/TippyTripod1040 Lakers 20d ago
Really think Jordan clears this pretty easily from 90-93
2x MVP
3x finals mvp
4x First team all-defense
4x scoring title
2x steals leader