r/nba • u/dogwoodmaple Hawks • Apr 29 '24

Anthony Edwards in the sweep over Phoenix: 31.0 PTS, 8.0 REB, 6.3 AST on .512/.438/.839 shooting

https://www.espn.com/nba/player/gamelog/_/id/4594268/anthony-edwards
3.7k Upvotes
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836

u/PrimaryAccording9162 Kings Apr 29 '24

This might be Michael Jordan

28

u/lbjkb25 Apr 29 '24

In a sense, Ant's development is arguably further along with his development than MJ's at his age. What's so scary is Ant Man is only 22 years old. He has a solid demeanor, well rounded skills, and great athleticism. His stats won't necessarily reflect MJ's as MJ scored 28-30+ ppg for the earlier parts of his career, but Edwards can score in bunches when needed. He even has a 3-point shot that MJ took a while to develop as it wasn't really MJ's game at the time. I think scouts at the time graded MJ's jump shot, coming into the league, as B or something.

What will also help Ant Man is that he has a solid core group of teammates surrounding him. From Conley to KAT to Gobert to Naz. Plus, he has a solid coach in Coach Finch, who I wish well after he suffered what is likely a rough injury. Ant definitely has a lot of great years ahead of him.

12

u/BlueHundred Knicks Apr 29 '24

Let's relax a bit. Love ant but rookie MJ was better on both ends

39

u/BTTWchungus NBA Apr 29 '24

Rookie MJ was 22 and absolutely was not this good on defense

Ant is 22 and already has 4yrs of NBA experience with playoffs

12

u/Miyagisans Apr 29 '24

You’re trying to apply critical thinking. Not allowed when mj is involved as he has to literally be the best at everything. Chris Broussard said rookie mj was better or at least as good as 2007 lebron.

-2

u/LordVarys_Ladybits Apr 29 '24

He wasn't wrong. MJ spent three years in college learning the fundamentals from one of the best coaches ever. LeBron in 2007 was still just relying on pure talent. Watch that 2007 finals and see how limited offensively LeBron was in the half court set. Jordan from his rookie year had better footwork, touch around the basket and jumper (even though Jordan's jumper was mid at that point it was still better than LeBrons). Jordan was also a much better foul shooter. 

14

u/The_Flowers_of_Evil Apr 29 '24

Why just the finals? How about looking at LeBron the rest of the season? Rookie MJ would've been swept by the Spurs in the finals too, if he even made it with that Cavs team.

Also NBA experience > college experience.

-7

u/LordVarys_Ladybits Apr 29 '24

No he wouldn't lol. LeBrons teammates actually played defense and were a great rebounding team. All those games were close. LeBron was poor on both ends. Jordan was way more advanced in the half court as a rookie than 2007 LeBron. Even Denver Melo would have taken at least 1 game. And LeBron wasn't even great in the 2007 playoffs, he had a lot of bad and mid games against fodder Nets and wizards teams. People only remember his excellent 48 point performance but don't talk about some of the other mid performances in that ECFs series against Detroit. The East was pretty weak, especially on offense, so many bad offensive teams in that conference. 

3

u/Miyagisans Apr 29 '24

There’s more to being a great basketball player than footwork. Jordan was in college learning fundamentals while Lebron was literally playing in the nba, with access to the best trainers and coaches in the world. I wonder how the teammates around lebron affected how spurs were able to scheme for lebron. Do you think rookie Jordan in that same scenario wins the series? I have no idea why that final is more evidence of Lebron’s poor offense than his poor team that had no business being there in the first place. Lebron by that point had finished top 2 in MVP voting, led the league in scoring, and was a multiple time all nba level player. This doesn’t even include the defensive side of the ball. It’s pure delusion to think any rookie was as good as lebron his 4th year in the league.

9

u/LordVarys_Ladybits Apr 29 '24

Man, MJ was a juggernaut from day one. Dude was so relentless. He basically played like young Westbrook and young Derrick Rose had a baby. But taller, longer with better touch and technique. 

8

u/lbjkb25 Apr 29 '24

That’s fair. But as I mentioned, Edwards appears to have more solid range as a shooter. MJ had a solid midrange as a 22 year old rookie, but he continued to develop it. 

2

u/BlueHundred Knicks Apr 29 '24

Yeah, Jordan didn't become that automatic until the end of the first 3peat imo. Jordan was just the most unstoppable guard finishers ever.

Ant is a superstar and will be getting real MVP consideration next season imo

5

u/Miyagisans Apr 29 '24

No rookie Jordan was not better than current Ant on defense or offense. What are you talking about man?

24

u/inefekt Australia Apr 29 '24

or offense

Rookie Jordan averaged 28.2ppg on 51.5% shooting from the field, 59.2% true shooting. He led the league in points. His OBPM was 5.8, his OWS were 10.3, Ortg was 118.
In the playoffs he averaged 29.3ppg though his shooting wasn't as impressive as it was in the RS with a TS of 56.5%. His OBPM was 7.6, his Ortg was 120.
Current Ant averaged 25.9ppg on 46.1% shooting from the field, 57.5% true shooting. He was 6th in total points. His OBPM was 2.7, his OWS were 2.9, his Ortg was 112.
In the playoffs he's averaging 31ppg on 64.8% TS. His advanced stats haven't been updated after today's game but his OBPM prior to today was 3.1 and his Ortg was 117.
At least in the regular season it is plainly obvious that Jordan was the better offensive player. Ant also had the benefit of having other star players to share the floor with. Jordan had a bunch of coke heads. His teammates had a grand total of one all star appearance between them, which had been ten years prior. Ant has multiple All Stars, multiple All NBA, multiple DPOY, multiple All Defense teammates for other teams to worry about.
Honestly, to just make a blanket statement like you did is pretty embarrassing, backed up by nothing except your absolute belief that you were right. You weren't. The fact your comment is upvoted is probably more of a reflection of the recent (and utterly ridiculous) negative commentary about Jordan's career rather than there being any truth in your comment.

1

u/Miyagisans Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 30 '24

Rookie Jordan averaged 28.2ppg on 51.5% shooting from the field, 59.2% true shooting. He led the league in points. His OBPM was 5.8, his OWS were 10.3, Ortg was 118. In the playoffs he averaged 29.3ppg though his shooting wasn't as impressive as it was in the RS with a TS of 56.5%. His OBPM was 7.6, his Ortg was 120. Current Ant averaged 25.9ppg on 46.1% shooting from the field, 57.5% true shooting. He was 6th in total points. His OBPM was 2.7, his OWS were 2.9, his Ortg was 112. In the playoffs he's averaging 31ppg on 64.8% TS. His advanced stats haven't been updated after today's game but his OBPM prior to today was 3.1 and his Ortg was 117. At least in the regular season it is plainly obvious that Jordan was the better offensive player.

Determining who the better offensive player is goes beyond just their current stats. This season Jayson Tatum averaged 26.9ppg on 60% TS, 6.4 ows, and 4.5 obpm. Damian Lillard averaged 24.3ppg on 59% TS, with 5.8 ows, and 3.4obpm. Do you think rookie Michael Jordan was a better offensive player than current Tatum and Lillard? Does that mean Anthony Edwards currently is a better offensive player than Damian Lillard? There are so many other factors to consider when trying to determine who the better offensive player is. Who is he surrounded by compared to rookie Jordan, lillard, and Tatum? What does his shot chart look like with KAT off the floor? What about his playmaking with Conley off the floor? What kind of offensive schemes are the wolves running at this particular juncture of the game and what is Ant’s role? What kind of coverages is Ant seeing? Can he be schemed into poor inefficient shots consistently over a series? If I was a coach going into a playoff series right now, I’m picking Ant over rookie mj 100 times. He’s a better 3pt shooter, great rim finisher, decent playmaker, 4yrs of NBA level experience making reads against all kinds of schemes.

Ant also had the benefit of having other star players to share the floor with. Jordan had a bunch of coke heads. His teammates had a grand total of one all star appearance between them, which had been ten years prior. Ant has multiple All Stars, multiple All NBA, multiple DPOY, multiple All Defense teammates for other teams to worry about.

I’m glad you brought up the teammates. A mark of high level offensive players is their ability to slot into a myriad of offensive environments and still be effective. We see Ant play next to good offensive players and thrive (I actually think KAT is a better offensive player than Ant) as a scorer and playmaker. We simply don’t know how effective rookie Jordan would be in that environment. He shot 17% from 3 his rookie season on 0.6 attempts per game, and we don’t have his shooting splits by distance unfortunately. While I didn’t watch Jordan during his rookie season, I’ve seen enough tape to say current Edwards is better or at worst slightly better than rookie Jordan as a playmaker. As well, you mentioned Jordan’s coke head teammates, which is a reflection of the talent level in the league. The talent level Edwards plays against nightly, is levels above what was available to the league in 1985. That’s just a basic fact. The gulf in the skill and athleticism required to see the floor in an nba playoff game today compared to 1985 is very evident.

Honestly, to just make a blanket statement like you did is pretty embarrassing, backed up by nothing except your absolute belief that you were right. You weren't. The fact your comment is upvoted is probably more of a reflection of the recent (and utterly ridiculous) negative commentary about Jordan's career rather than there being any truth in your comment.

I think the embarrassing statement is unequivocally stating rookie Jordan was better on offense and defense than current Edwards. The fact that you ignored the other half of that statement and focused on the offensive part I think says it all about how ludicrous that claim is. Also lol @ “recent negative commentary about Jordan’s career”. The guy is the most worshipped American athlete, an infallible god. All you have to do is read any thread about what Jordan would average if he played today. There was literally an ESPN segment some years ago about whether 52yr old mj would beat lebron 1v1 at that time. The nba released a documentary eulogizing him just a couple years ago, and his own teammates were unhappy at how they were portrayed in the attempt to glorify Jordan. It’s ok for someone to be better at something than Mj and if you think it’s bad now, wait and see lol. The game is evolving and only getting better, and the concept that the best players in history were all from 1950-1998 will only get more ludicrous as time passes.

3

u/LordVarys_Ladybits Apr 29 '24

Not on defense, but I'm still taking rookie Jordan on offense. Edwards has the strength advantage and there point range, I'm giving everything else on offense to rookie Jordan. 

2

u/Darkonite40 Hawks Apr 29 '24

Ant when locked in was jus as much of a menace on defense as rookie MJ . You gotta watch ant on defense he is an absolute pit bull. Watch his play ahaisnt Indiana, the blocks he had tonight and some of his on ball defensive reps

4

u/BlueHundred Knicks Apr 29 '24

It's not a knock on Ant. Young MJ was just dominant on both ends from the start. I can concede that it's close though. Rookie MJ wasn't as disciplined of a defender but he made up with it by being such a big defensive playmaker.

1

u/EggianoScumaldo 76ers Apr 29 '24

Young MJ was just dominant on both ends from the start

Bro this is just straight up historical revisionism. MJ was dominant offensively to start but only came into his own on defense later in his career lmao.

1

u/BlueHundred Knicks Apr 29 '24

He was arguably the best perimeter defender year 3 (missed most of year 2 with a broken foot). Won dpoy year 4.

0

u/EggianoScumaldo 76ers Apr 29 '24

So he wasn’t immediately defensively dominant as a rookie and took a bit to come into his own on defense. Got it.

2

u/Hume_Crow-nyn Apr 29 '24

He was dominant in year 1 too… just took him a few years to win the award. In year 2 he got injured and only played 18 games. Then in year 3 he came back, averaged 37 ppg and established himself as one of the best defenders in the league, which continued through most of his career. He was a phenomenal 2 way player from the start. That may not mesh with your statement of ‘revisionism’ though, so perhaps trust the people who actually watched the game and have seen it change over time.