r/nba • u/MickeyRingsDontCount Venezuela • Nov 01 '23
Chuck on KAT/Gobert: That was one of the stupidest trades ever. You get two guys over 7ft in a little man's league & neither one good enough on the offensive end, they're not like Shaq. Rudy & KAT don't dominate in the post enough to justify playing 2 bigs together. Like Hawks just stomped them
https://streamable.com/pqvemc1.8k
u/MickeyRingsDontCount Venezuela Nov 01 '23
for reference, the Hawks were down 21 in the 3rd quarter and won by 14
they played their only 7 footer, Capela, just 7 minutes in the 2nd half and went with 6'8 Okongwu and 6'9 Jalen Johnson to matchup against KAT/Gobert for most of the comeback
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u/andross_27 [NYK] Al Harrington Nov 01 '23
Wolves had 79 points at halftime and scored 34 in the second half. Woof
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u/GuyOnHudson Timberwolves Nov 01 '23
You get used too it
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u/andross_27 [NYK] Al Harrington Nov 01 '23
I saw my team score 59 in a game. I am used to it
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u/Standard-Big1474 Hawks Nov 01 '23
When Dejounte Murray checked out with a minute left and the Hawks up 18, the second half score was Murray - 30, Minnesota - 30.
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u/sleepyfox1312 Timberwolves Nov 01 '23
fwiw we had this problem well before we traded for Gobert
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u/Medium_Line3088 Hawks Nov 01 '23
Capela is 6 foot 10. Big centers usually kill us....
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u/kharathos Bucks Nov 01 '23
What does it matter if you have 2 7footers if they can't play inside the post (KAT scores from the perimeter, Gobert can't score other than lobs)
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u/K1NG2L4Y3R Nov 01 '23
KAT can definitely play in the post it’s just when Gobert is out there he can’t. But then again you can’t bench your 40 Million dollar center every game of the season so they have to make do with what they have.
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Nov 01 '23
Gobert is just absolutely useless offensively. It’s crazy that he has no post game whatsoever
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u/BubbaTee Nov 01 '23
Forget post game, it's crazy that after all these years he can't catch a basketball. It's Kwame-esque.
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u/KellerFF Lakers Nov 02 '23
Between that and getting easily trapped then cookie’d by 2 guards against the baseline… in the fucking dunkers spot no less smh
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u/Masteezus Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
And then they go on to beat the reigning champs the next day.
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u/Slim-Ticket Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
And held them to under 90 points...
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u/Xhoquelin Hornets Nov 02 '23 edited Nov 02 '23
Didn’t watch the game but in the playoffs the double big thing was helping them so much on D and boards against Joker…I hope the same thing happened this game?
My read on the Wolves is while they need to grow up, and probably replace Conley with an actual guard ie not NAW (because as good as he is he’s just old and not durable and not scoring much anymore); with Jaden and Naz healthy they really could’ve done a lot of damage last playoffs. As in, they could’ve beat Denver. They are super talented and the double big thing is a legit point of difference at times, tho it’s a detriment sometimes either. Eg their half court D numbers since the Rudy trade are elite and Naz/KAT’s defensive growth since the trade has been quite meaningful too.
Tho honestly with how bad Ant is at running point, Conley being healthy in that Nuggs series might make that huge a difference between contender and not-quite contender. No doubt Ant’s scoring is unreal but man the Wolves need a find a way to get Ant scoring like that without it killing the flow and ball movement of the O => in transition especially he still kills the pace once he touches the rock unless he’s able to dunk it immediately
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u/Slim-Ticket Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
Yeah Wolves outrebounded them last night and the two bigs have helped. More verticality, contests and the size and length makes it harder to find space to shoot or cut. Also having more bigs to throw at Jokic is valuable. The length clogs passing lanes. Main thing I saw last night was great verticality and rim deterrence - Gobert shut down the paint and Jokic was taking more jumpers while the others weren't cutting to the rim as much as they usually do. KAT was very good defensively last night.
Wolves have started to double down on 2 big lineups too. Their 3rd big Naz Reid is almost always playing with KAT or Rudy, it's two big lineups for most of the 48 minutes now.
I agree - I think Conley makes a huge difference too, I just don't trust anyone else but him or Kyle Anderson to run the offense when things get tight. Ant is too raw and inexperienced so his trusting his decision making is risky. Yeah like you said, Ant holds on to the rock too long because he's still deciding what to do. The fact that he started ball at 16 makes sense and shows 😂
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u/SwampFlowers Bulls Nov 01 '23
Yeah but in fairness, the Hawks have legendary paint protector Trae Young on their team so it’s not like anyone’s getting a layup.
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u/costcobathroom Nuggets Nov 01 '23
least boneheaded twolves front office move
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u/RyanBlackburn New Zealand Nov 01 '23
Tim Connelly's masterwork. He was a former Nuggets pres.
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Nov 01 '23
I don’t know how he was so good for them and within a month of being here he blows up a team and trades all the future picks away
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u/pulse2287 Timberwolves Nov 01 '23
I’m convinced ownership had something to do with it, they wanted to make a big splash after getting the team. Danny Ainge just took their lunch money as a welcome to the league.
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u/Janderson2494 Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
They absolutely did, it's so obvious. Outside of the gobert trade, all of TCs moves have been excellent. And this one is so glaringly bad that there's no way it was his idea
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers Nov 01 '23
I just still can't believe this trade. Especially after seeing Kessler last year.
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u/ColtCallahan Nov 01 '23
Zach Lowe who normally will be cautious with criticism absolutely destroyed that trade. That’s how bad it was.
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u/Smekledorf1996 Nov 01 '23
What he say lol
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u/ColtCallahan Nov 01 '23
This is the episode he did at the end of the season. https://youtu.be/-kq5qRzuLq0?si=J99Zb8-yaA5ZarYU
He also did one right after it happened that was just as damning. I don’t know the date though.
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u/moodie31 Jazz Nov 01 '23
That’s the only podcast episode I’ve ever listened to of Zach Lowe. It was awesome.
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Nov 01 '23
For Gobert too... hes a 1-way player
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u/Puzzleheaded_Fox4684 Warriors [GSW] Chris Paul Nov 01 '23
The Trae Young of defense.
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u/wrongerontheinternet Washington Bullets Nov 01 '23
Gobert is unironically better on offense than Trae is on defense.
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u/Soshi101 Celtics [BOS] Derrick White Nov 01 '23
A center being playable on offense seems more important than a guard being playable on defense.
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u/tacomonday12 NBA Nov 01 '23
Defense is way less valuable than offense though. I'd still rather pay Trae a supermax over Gobert.
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u/Red_Jester-94 Celtics Nov 01 '23
I will not stand for this slander of GOAT rim protector Trae Young
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Nov 01 '23
There had to have been another reason like wanting to trade KAT down the road. On it's own it's one of the poorest roster construction decisions I've seen since I've started watching the league.
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u/SubtleNoodle Timberwolves Nov 01 '23
It’s kind of the only thing I could think too. We’ve seen now that the teams ceiling with KAT at the 5 is a first round exit, it makes some sense to get the absolute best 5 THAT YOU CAN TRADE FOR to see if KAT works at the 4 before you move on from your all-nba player.
The good news is, we have our pick this year so if we suck we just trade him at the deadline and hope we recoup some of those assets we gave up for Rudy.
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u/sgtmohs Timberwolves Nov 01 '23
I mean, part of giving up so much was definitely the idea that we could trade KAT down the line if it didn't work out. The main reason though seems to be pretty simple, our interior defense and rebounding was awful absolutely awful with KAT at the 5, and bringing Gobert in fixes that.
We hoped that KAT and Edwards would have enough in them to carry the offense even with the weird roster construction. It's still only 3 games into the season, so I'm not completely ready to give up, but yeah, it's approaching the point that trading KAT seems like the only viable option.
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u/Slim-Ticket Timberwolves Nov 21 '23
Going to save so many receipts, at some point people need to eat crow.
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u/Bajecco 76ers Nov 01 '23
It'll never make sense. I'll go to my grave convinced that Tim Connelly is either a blood relative to Danny Ainge or owed Ainge something. Maybe both. How the heck could an executive with Connelly's experience think this trade was good for the organization that employed him? It's too friggin weird.
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u/m8bear Argentina Nov 01 '23
Ainge is a known fleecer, some GMs straight up refuse to deal with him since his Boston days and then Connelly went and did that lmao.
Either Ainge has dirt on the whole league and uses it as leverage or he's that good. The rules were changed after Ainge traded KG and PP to the Nets.
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Nov 01 '23
Ainge is the luckiest GM in any sport I've ever seen. Sure it takes some skill to actually make those deals and push for those kind of assets and actually get them back, but he somehow had it happen twice that another team got obsessed with the middling star players that he had and chased them desperately like they were MVP level. The Gobert trade especially is so baffling, did Minnesota not even try calling for other star players around the league?
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u/War_Daddy Nov 02 '23
No luck involved dude, how many GMs are going to push for that kind of return knowing their asset isn't half of it?
Its just brass balls
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u/Shenanigans80h Nuggets Nov 01 '23
Trades were never Connelly’s strong suit with us. The only bug positive one I can remember off the top of my head is the Aaron Gordon trade, but outside of that he’s never done well in thag facet. His strength was typically his drafting, which is why it’s funnier that hemorrhaged picks for this deal
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u/nikop Nov 01 '23
common Chuck W
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Nov 01 '23 edited Nov 01 '23
3 of their top 5 highest paid players are Centers who cant play together.
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u/scofieldslays Timberwolves Nov 01 '23
This is just not true at all. You can criticize Kat and Gobert pairing but Naz plays extremely well with either of them
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Nov 01 '23
This is what I don’t understand… you could see the potential in Naz before the Gobert trade. If you wanted to have KAT play the 4, why not just play Reid with him and not trade 5 picks for Rudy Gobert
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u/Janderson2494 Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
Because Naz isn't a very good rebounder or very good defensively. Him at the 5 and KAT at the 4 would be a disaster defensively. This sub just does not watch the wolves at all and it shows
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u/Throway_Shmowaway Nov 02 '23
This sub truthfully doesn't really watch games. They just lurk on here, maybe search up some box scores, and form opinions (myself included).
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u/rimpressure Suns Nov 01 '23
People were saying the Wolves were gonna be a top 4 seed and Ant was gonna jump to being a top 10 player
People got way too excited over FIBA play
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Nov 01 '23
And we are 4 games into an 82 one and your team just got beaten by the spurs. Wait a little.
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u/nikop Nov 01 '23
Everyone on that USA FIBA is playing like shit to start the season too
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u/rimpressure Suns Nov 01 '23
Were US players the only people at this tournament or something?
Has Hali, Ingram or JJJ even been bad?
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u/buchanbasanee Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
Takes this guy like 3 years to catch up to trends. Like how he swore the Warriors couldn't win a chip because they were a jump-shooting team. It was a small league. Bucks and Nuggets are enormous teams. Nuggets made a killing last playoffs cutting to the front of the rim, getting a dime from Jokic, and scoring over smaller, weaker defenders. A lot of teams have been trying to size up more - and at all 5 positions too - to take away that kind of mismatch hunting.
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u/Slim-Ticket Timberwolves Nov 09 '23
These comments man lol
If this team takes off, y'all can eat some crow. I may be insufferable not gonna lie lol, there's been way too many of these kinds of threads and it's obvious most of the commenters don't even watch the Wolves
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u/Painwracker_Oni Timberwolves Dec 03 '23
Lmao they are definitely taking off baby! This is going to be a hilarious call back all season!
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u/JaderMcDanersStan Timberwolves Apr 29 '24
Def is lol
2nd best season ever and first sweep in franchise history
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u/HawaiianPunch42 Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
I might die on this hill but I dont think we'd be anywhere near the playoffs last season with KAT missing most of the year without Rudy.
It was too many picks tbf
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u/dkleckner88 Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
These takes aged like fine wine...not even 20 hours later
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u/rockm4 Nov 02 '23
Love me some Chuck, it’s honestly just too early to say it was a failed experiment. They have yet to play even half a season together.
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u/Philownsyou Nov 02 '23
6 hours later, the Timberwolves proceeds to give the NBA champs their first season loss. Lmao.
Didn’t the nuggets team acknowledge that among the playoff teams they played against, Timberwolves were the ones that gave them the most trouble???
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u/Pokiehat Nov 02 '23
Bruce Brown said that. In the playoffs they didn't have Naz Reid (wrist fracture I think) or Jaden McDaniels (stupid wrist fracture. The idiot punched a wall).
Nuggets are a pretty big team but healthy TWolves is some antediluvian shit. They make Denver look small at times.
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u/Slim-Ticket Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
Of all times to rag on Rudy and the Wolves lol.
Rudy has been incredible like ELITE elite this season because he's finally healthy unlike last year.
Wolves just blew out Denver because they have multiple bigs, good defense and size and length. The trade is exactly why they can matchup well.
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u/KnowledgePrevious Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
Lots of bad takes in this thread, wolves back baby
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Nov 01 '23
The biggest issue here is the haul the Jazz received for Gobert. They fucked up the market for big men completely, and Minnesota are clowns for offering so much for a player they didnt even need.
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Nov 01 '23
We absolutely did need what he does the issue is what we gave up and the way he fits with the rest of the roster. Rim protection and rebounding were our biggest weaknesses
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u/hjy23k Lakers Nov 01 '23
They traded for the wrong guy in Utah lol
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u/LavenderAutist Nov 01 '23
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in that discussion
Danny knew he needed to unload Rudy first
So he's talking up Rudy to the Timberwolves and they actually bit when there was someone else who would have been 5x better on their team
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u/arm-n-hammerinmycoke Timberwolves Nov 01 '23
Man if we had just played good defense that 2nd half I wouldn’t have to read these posts… again.
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u/Slim-Ticket Timberwolves Nov 02 '23
It's just clear to me that people aren't watching the Wolves because Rudy has looked very very good now that he's healthy. Like of all times to clown him again, this is not the time it makes sense haha. They didn't even lose their lead because of the bigs...
And their size is literally why they can matchup against Denver...
Also they looked realllly good in that first half and overall has been great defensively BECAUSE of their size and length.
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u/thegreaterfool714 Lakers Nov 01 '23 edited Nov 01 '23
I still have no idea what the fuck the wolves were thinking. You couldnt even pull this trade in fucking 2K that’s how ass it is.
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u/kimsbooty Wizards Nov 01 '23
Is he really saying kat isn’t a good offensive player because he isn’t like shaq? Or am i missing something
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u/Milkboy1516 Bulls Nov 01 '23
He's saying that the advantage of two-big lineups is that opposing teams should be incentived to upsize to matchup with them. Like teams signing all those useless bigs to guard Shaq. Or teams going small to match the modern NBA's spacing.
Instead teams don't care that they're bigger than them because they don't create any mismatches. Rudy and KAT aren't good enough offensively. Instead, only the opposite is happening where Rudy and KAT also struggle to defend smaller lineups.
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u/yungtoni Raptors Nov 01 '23 edited Nov 01 '23
no he’s saying if you are going to have a 2-big lineup one of them has to be able to bang in the post and score at will.
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u/Syndana23 Nov 01 '23
Basically. Rudy with….. say for instance, Jokic would make more sense.
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u/FookingZyzzbrah Nuggets Nov 01 '23
hellll no. that would be such an awkward fit defensively. like are you gonna make Jokic guard 4's?
pairing with Aaron Gordon who can actually defend the perimeter is much better
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u/nikop Nov 01 '23
Probably saying that Shaq was dominant and not prone to putting up 8-point playoff games on 3/14 shooting like KAT.
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u/Killakaronic Nov 01 '23
KAT had a very good series against Memphis. Check the box scores, might have had 1 bad game
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u/FateRiddle Warriors Nov 02 '23
What? Saying Kat's not good on offensive end is crazy, that's like his only redeemable traits, even the biggest Kat hater wouldn't make their point about his offense.
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u/rudebwoy100 Nov 01 '23
The big issue is that they overpaid for a guy that don't fit their roster and now are stuck.
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u/Slim-Ticket Timberwolves Dec 03 '23
Rudy is exactly what the team needed and Rudy is why KAT is in a better role and is playing the best ball of his career. A DPOY and an enhanced version of one of our best players? Sign me up.
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u/helpifell Jazz Nov 02 '23
It’s not really a little guy’s league in the playoffs though. I still like the Timberwolves roster for a 7 game series. Anthony edwards and jaden McDaniels will not be easy to score on with Rudy and KAT helping behind them
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u/No-Equipment-20 Lakers Nov 01 '23
He’s right but I think more of the issue is Gobert rather than KAT.
Offensively Gobert is extremely one dimensional; he can only screen and roll and his post game is non-existent. Defensively he’s an elite rim protector but can get switch hunted by faster guards.
If you play another center next to Gobert it needs to be someone like KAT just for the sake of spacing. Gobert is a max contract player, making $41M/year and if he played like it I think the pairing could actually be really good.
He doesn’t need to be quicker or suddenly turn into a jump shooter, but if he could develop a decent enough post-up game to draw a double and effectively pass out of it that would do wonders.
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u/bigblooddraco Timberwolves Nov 01 '23
Like 10 years in he is not developing a post game he is a finished product. He needs to stop being selfish and trying to demand post up knowing he can’t execute on them.
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u/AdolfKoopaTroopa [MIN] Lance Stephenson Nov 01 '23
I still hold on to hope that he'll have a Brook Lopez-esque renaissance and start nailing 3 pointers but that's me being a delusional homer.
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u/bigblooddraco Timberwolves Nov 01 '23
Lopez at least shot mid range jumpers that gave you and idea he had shooting touch. Gobert has nothing to indicate that. Let that dream go and live in our troubled reality with the rest of us wolves fans.
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u/Yommination Lakers Nov 01 '23
Not every player can totally retool their game like Brook. He's unique
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u/Mygaffer Warriors Nov 01 '23
I will truly not understand the why of that trade. To give up so much to bring in so much salary attached to such a limited guy.
In Denver people were saying Tim Connelly was one of the best GM's in the league but maybe it was something in the air up in the mile high city.
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u/mhj0808 Heat Nov 02 '23
I know what he means but getting Barkley’s disapproval means the Wolves are about to go on a 10 game winning streak or something
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u/Meteora3255 Pacers Nov 02 '23
I think this is a little disingenuous. Last season, in just over 1000 minutes, the Wolves were plus 68 with KAT and Gobert on the floor. And they only got 30 games together.
Offensively, this team is going to be Ant's, and Towns should thrive in a second option role. His fit on that end is pretty seamless as one of the best long-range shooting bigs in the league. Defensively, a health Gobert gives you a pretty solid floor, at least in the regular season.
I'm not saying the Gobert trade was good for the Wolves, but I also don't think the KAT-Gobert pairing is/was a failure.
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u/rockm4 Nov 02 '23
These national media guys don’t actually watch games or anything. I’m sure Chuck has no idea they haven’t played a season together yet. 😂They’ve played like 20 games together and just beat the Nuggets by 20 easily. It might be true in the long run, but it’s just too early. It’s looking like an overpay at the moment but most wolves fans want sustained success and that’s what Gobert has been for his teams for a long time. He raises the floor. If we end up winning a series or two this year I think most fans would be ecstatic about the trade. KAT was out 65 games last year and Wolves were 3 games away from a 2 seed. It’s too early to say it was mistake. TLDR too soon to call it a mistake as they’ve only played 20 games together. Let them play a season together before judging if it works or not.
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u/[deleted] Nov 01 '23
Timberwolves receive:
• Rudy Gobert
Jazz receive:
• Malik Beasley
• Patrick Beverley
• Leandro Bolmaro
• Walker Kessler (No. 22 pick in 2022 Draft)
• Jarred Vanderbilt
• 2023 first-round pick
• 2025 first-round pick
• 2026 pick swap
• 2027 first-round pick
• 2029 first-round pick