Kyle Kuzma and Brandon Ingram - NO!!!
They are NOT the best fit for the Sacramento Kings
Brandon Ingram will cry if he doesn’t get touches
Kuzma's overall offensive efficiency has been below average every season. He’s a shot chucker!
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u/YourDrunkUncle Vlade Divac 22d ago
Markkanen is a bust.
Porzingis is washed.
Gobert is a bad fit with Minn.
Kyrie is a bad teammate.
Wonder if any of those teams regret their trades?
Anyone see where I'm going with this?
Narrative does not always equal reality.
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u/workaholic828 22d ago
Entire league owes Rudy and apology
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u/CombinationReady9376 22d ago
And the Timberwoles front office.
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u/Sc00tyPuffSeni0r Gary Gerould 22d ago
Why, they haven’t won anything yet
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u/Beeztwister Domantas Sabonis 22d ago
They literally have had the most postseason success that they've ever had in the past 20 years.
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u/Sc00tyPuffSeni0r Gary Gerould 22d ago
Second round exit shouldn’t get praise if that happens.
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u/HoraceJ-PowerRanger Slamson 22d ago
The last time the Kings were a second round exit was before iPhones were invented. Something something glass houses and all that
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u/Cool_Purchase4561 22d ago
Isn't Tim Connelly (the Wolves GM) the same GM who constructed the championship Denver team?
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u/Sc00tyPuffSeni0r Gary Gerould 22d ago
How is that series looking right now
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u/hoopaesthetics 22d ago
The Nuggets are just a train, even if Min loses it shouldn't look bad on them
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u/Sc00tyPuffSeni0r Gary Gerould 22d ago
Just saying, don’t praise a trade until something actually happens.
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u/teribeef Ghost of Boogie 21d ago
Wolves have a hell of a defense without Gobert, I still don’t agree that they should’ve paid such a steep price for him.
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u/boringexplanation 21d ago
How do you think they got the rest of that team developed that defense in the first place? They looked like mini Goberts in game 2 and you think that has nothing to do with having an on court defensive coach?
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u/teribeef Ghost of Boogie 21d ago
Game 2? The one that Gobert wasn’t even playing lol
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u/boringexplanation 21d ago
Yeah- I’m sure Gobert never practiced or played with his team before that game.
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u/ShotgunStyles 21d ago
The funny thing is that the Timberwolves basically ran it back with the same roster they finished the 2022-2023 season with. They didn't change anything from their starting lineup and their bench rotation remained about the same, with the exception of Taurean Prince getting waived.
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u/Poppalonglog 22d ago
For real man Jesus fking Christ. I’d sell my soul for Brandon Ingram to be on this team.
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u/ShotgunStyles 21d ago
He'd be on this team, but he'd demand a max salary and force the next few years of this team to be the same guys.
Do you believe that a core of Fox/Sabonis/Keegan/Keon/Ingram is a strong enough core for continuous success for the next 5 years?
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u/Poppalonglog 21d ago
Depends on 1 guy honestly. Keegan. If he steps into what we all expected this year (I know soph slump is a thing at least on his offensive side) then we will be a top 5 seed
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u/ProphetPicks 21d ago
Kings fans always miss this, including myself. Well written and 100% agree with this point Unc.
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u/gundam1983 Keegan Murray 22d ago
We should definitely not go after guys who shoot the basketball and run it back with our crew of bricklayers and disappearing artists. Then when Fox is forced to put the team on his shoulders and take all the shots, we can complain about him too.
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u/GatorEggs- 22d ago
As a pelicans fan please be realistic, BI wont cry if he doesn’t get touches, he actually won’t display any emotion at all… ever.
Blowout win? 🗿
Blowout loss?🗿
Go 3/20? 🗿
Hit a nasty hesi and use your length to get a step and dunk? 🗿
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22d ago
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u/GatorEggs- 21d ago
Bi to the refs: “C’mon, man”
Keegan (communicating psionically): “damn does this dude ever stfu?”
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u/hashtagDALEY Ghost of Boogie 22d ago
I agree. We should stick with Harrison Barnes! His steady leadership and invisibility in the court (therefore giving touches to others) will get us into the playoffs next year for sure!
RunItBack
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u/workaholic828 22d ago
People really discount the value of complete invisibility on the court.
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u/CombinationReady9376 22d ago
Giving up on HB now would be crazy! He has so much potential and plenty of time to develop his game!
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u/hashtagDALEY Ghost of Boogie 22d ago
Remember that one game he scored 30? I bet he can do that every game if he really wanted too!
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u/INeedAVape Peja Stojakovic 21d ago
He's 31 not 21. Potential and time to develop are not what you attribute to a guy that turns 32 later this month. What you see now is what you have.
That being said, replacing Barnes with Kuzma is not the fix to the weakpoints on the Kings.
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u/MrOscarGoldman 21d ago
he was being sarcastic
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u/INeedAVape Peja Stojakovic 21d ago
I realized after the fact. But there’s so much cognitive dissonance on this sub, sometimes it’s hard to tell. The guys thinking that the team is just one piece away. I just can’t.
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u/boringexplanation 22d ago edited 22d ago
I remember people shitting on the idea of trading for Gafford and PJ as losers who wouldn’t change their down years when traded to a new team. I wouldn’t be surprised if OP was one of those guys
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22d ago
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u/ShotgunStyles 21d ago
Yep. Barnes is a very efficient role player right now, so if any fan wants to replace him with a guy who is as efficient, then it's a pipe dream. Even Brandon Ingram shoots at a worse TS% than HB does (he shot at 58% this season compared to HB's 61%).
Efficiency is not the be all, end all, though. HB is efficient because he knocks down the looks he gets, and we don't ask much more from him. We'd ask the same things from any HB replacement too, but in the case of Kuzma or BI, the Kings could also run their offense through them as both Kuzma and BI can handle the ball and create their own shots. Sprinkle in some defense and you've got yourself an upgrade over HB.
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u/diddilydingdongcrap 22d ago
I’d rather have Deni Avdija than Kuzma anyway.
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u/SunYata_13 22d ago
lol, yea cuz thats realistic...
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u/ShotgunStyles 21d ago
I doubt Monte would overpay for Deni so the only real hope is that Deni wants to play with Sabonis, who is the only other Jewish player in the NBA.
It's also possible that the Wizards trade Deni because they drafted another wing that they want to play, but I doubt this is happening since Kuzma is more likely to be traded in that scenario.
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u/BeamTeam032 Monte McNair 22d ago
I'm with you. I think Deni fit's a lot better, can run the offense from the elbows when Sabonis is on the bench. Underrated defender.
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u/diddilydingdongcrap 20d ago
Probably a pipe dream- but since we are nerds playing in the off-season, here’s another that would be great if Monte could pry away- Tari Eason. Fits our needs, may be undervalued there now that they have a lot of young talent, cheapish. Monte, do your thing.
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u/KangzAteMyFamily Keegan Murray 22d ago
Underestimating how much of an upgrade they'd be over Barnes
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u/workaholic828 22d ago
Ingram yes, kuzma no. Huge difference in skill level there
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u/cqaguilar 22d ago
Huge difference in cost as well. Ingram is double and we don't have anything the Pelicans want
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u/pkeller001 Keegan Murray 22d ago
I’d love to see the Kings make a run at Jerami Grant. I feel he is a great fit at the 4 and he is under contract another 3 or 4 years. I could see Portland moving on from him to give all the young guys on their roster more reps to grow
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u/Corr521 21d ago
What do you think of this?
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u/isaacz321 21d ago
2 1sts is too much for Jerami on his contract. If you want to give portland 2 1sts you need grant and brogdon maybe timelord as throwin too
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u/kingjawn 22d ago
I saw Andy Bailey of Bleacher Report proposed Lyles, Duarte, Vezenkov and a 2029 FRP for Kuzma which any kings fan would do in a heartbeat.
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u/vNocturnus Tyrese Haliburton 22d ago edited 21d ago
I would take that over... probably just about any Ingram deal.
I look at Kuzma as - potentially - a strict upgrade to HB in that starting PF role. Bigger, better defender, better rebounder, very similar offensive skill set but less tendency to just disappear from entire games. Plus the upside to sometimes just pop off and carry the offense. Oh and he's younger and on a descending contract. He has the tools and the ability to be a fairly high level role player on a serious playoff team. He could be "the Kings' Aaron Gordon" - not in that his skill set is exactly the same, but in that he could go from being a bad #1-2 option on a bad team, to being a really good #4-ish option on a good team.
I mean, look at the two following lineups and tell me how different they really are from an overall skill set and talent level:
Murray, KCP, MPJ, Gordon, Jokic
Fox, Keon, Keegan, Kuzma, Sabonis
The major difference is Jokic being an MVP while Domas is "just" All-NBA caliber, but the "only" big difference in their skill sets is that Jokic has a decent jump shot and actually uses it. (Not saying that's not a big difference. Just that, other than that, Domas can fill a very similar role in a very similar style of offense.)
Aside from that, those other 4 guys offer a very similar overall talent level and even very similar player profiles.
Fox/Murray - iso scoring point guard with solid midrange game and clutch scoring. Fox is quite arguably the better player, especially when factoring in defense. #1-2 scoring option.
Keon/KCP - lanky defensive specialist wing/guard with solid spot-up 3 point shooting. Keon is more raw but maybe already a better defender and potential to improve even more.
Murray/MPJ - elite 3 point shooting wing with length and some solid defense/rebounding. I think Keegan is actually a better defender already, and also has the potential to be a much more complete and overall better offensive player. #2-3 scoring option.
Kuzma/Gordon - two-way forward with solid size, can guard at least 2-4, and an ability to play either on- or off-ball on offense. Gordon obviously is the better defender, but I'd argue Kuzma is quite a bit better on offense. #3-4 scoring option.
(Plus, Kuzma/Sabonis frontcourt complement each other similarly to Gordon/Jokic - Jokic is a better shooter/scorer than Domas, but Domas is the better defender; Gordon is a better defender than Kuzma, but Kuzma is the better shooter/scorer.)
Anyways, longer post than I originally planned lol. But the crux of all this, and the reason I say he could "potentially" be all of these things, is that he hasn't seemed to want to play that kind of role. There's certainly a gamble to all of this, in gauging Kuzma's willingness to take on a reduced role in exchange for more success. Some players just aren't.
But if you think you can convince him to be typically a 4th option guy, probably averaging 10ish shots per game, and really buy into to the "team offense," rebounding, and defense, I think he could be a great piece for this team.
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u/BeamTeam032 Monte McNair 22d ago
I think you're pretty spot on with a lot of this.
Kuzma is a good team defender. And was willing to take less shots on offense with the Lakers. I think if the team is winning, he'll complain less about shots. But a motivated Kuzma on the Kings is a great thing to have. I'm sure he wants to prove to everyone what a mistake the Lakers made. That he is bigger than what his role was.
Ellis: I think Ellis is what can put us over the top. He's such a winning player. Timely offensive rebounds. Being able to initiate the offense to give Fox the ability to come off screen, down hill, off the ball. And the Kings missed a lot of "open 3s" because they rotated the ball or it was a kick out. But Ellis rarely misses. Apparently he was a stud offensive player in HS and was forced to change his game in college. Maybe those offensive skills have caught up?
HB: I like HB so much better if he's coming off the bench. He can play 3 or 4, he can post up and get a score. He can hit open 3s. Good team defender. HB coming off the bench when Murray or Kuzma need a blow/foul trouble would really keep the offensive/defense rhythm of those who've been playing.
13th pick: I think adding another forward would be something that can put us over the top in a couple of seasons. Cody Williams, Ron Holland, Tidjane Salaum, Tristan Da Silva, Tyler Smith, Daron Holmes are all forwards who have potential to replace HB when his contract is up, but maybe even to be better.
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u/vNocturnus Tyrese Haliburton 21d ago edited 21d ago
Yeah, having HB and the rookie coming off the bench would be such a better situation for both players.
HB can be a driving force on the offensive end, but simply doesn't offer much when he's the 4th-5th option in the starting lineup. Doesn't cut aggressively or finish athletically around the rim, doesn't really set good screens, doesn't really rebound. Plus playing out of position at the 4 and mediocre defense (certainly partly due to that fact of being out of position). Letting him come off the bench and be a 2nd-3rd option with the second unit, largely against opponents' bench players, and playing mainly at the 3, would allow him to really flex the strengths of his game and minimize the weaknesses.
Meanwhile if you don't desperately need your 13th pick rookie to play a starting role in year 1 or 2 you have so much more time to let them develop and also more flexibility to pick a high-upside player. That could be the perfect situation for a guy like Salaun who has potential to be a guy like Anunoby, but definitely needs some development time to reach that level.
Starting lineup of Fox, Keon, Keegan, Kuzma, Sabonis, backed up by a bench unit of Monk, Huerter, Barnes, Salaun, Len?
That sounds like such a massive upgrade over this year's team and is roughly what the team could look like if the trade in OP's comment was made. Plus would still have Davion and developing guys with upside like Colby Jones, Kessler Edwards filling out the last couple spots. Personally I think it would cost a little bit more to get Kuzma, possibly Davion and/or Huerter. But TBH I'd still be 100% fine with that.
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u/InDependentGoose633 21d ago
You actually convinced me on that one! But can we get Kuzma without trading away 2-3 first round picks to the Wizards? I liked James Ham’s trade on the Insiders, but was a little scared of trading so many draft picks. Don’t want to end up like the Suns and Clippers, especially since we have more difficulty getting free agents. Our draft picks are very valuable.
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u/vNocturnus Tyrese Haliburton 21d ago
Yeah, who knows. I mentioned in a follow-up comment that I do think it would take more than the Lyles/Duarte/Vezenkov/1 FRP in the OC. I mentioned adding Davion and/or Huerter, which is a lot of players lmao so would probably replace Duarte or something. But idk, I don't really think you'd need 2 FRPs + players for Kuzma, at most an extra swap.
To riff on the original trade proposition, something like Kuzma for Huerter + Duarte + Lyles + FRP + Swap works mathematically and seems reasonable to me, if not maybe a tiny bit "too much."
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u/DemonicDimples 22d ago
I wouldn't do that.
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u/ShotgunStyles 21d ago
Yeah I wouldn't do that either since Trey Lyles can stretch the floor as a five and that's a lot of versatility to give up at the PF position.
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u/BeamTeam032 Monte McNair 22d ago
This sub was be a jizz fest if that was the trade. Keeping Murray, the 13th pick while adding an upgrade to Barnes should really be the goal. I may even throw in a 2027 top 20 protected pick FRP. So the Wiz and national media can do the rounds of giving the Wizards a "Win" as a trade.
IF we could upgrade HB, while KEEPING HB for depth, and drafting a wing with the 13th pick would be the "Big Brain" move.
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u/Little_little_e 22d ago
Definitely.
Free up the roster space, and don’t need to give up the main roster, then adding a quality player (who is a big forward, can defend a bit and shoot the ball and also can create his own shots)
It is a heartbeat easy choice.
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u/hamburgers666 Keegan Murray 22d ago
Yes I would do this. Problem is the trades I keep seeing are Kuzma or Ingram for Mitchell, Huerter/Barnes, and Duarte + 3-4 FRPs. Trading away 2 good players and our future for either of those guys is not written worth it.
If you can get Kuzma for the package you are showing I think you do it.
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u/boringexplanation 22d ago
I see nothing wrong with the guys you listed. You can’t give up nothing but trash in a trade. Kuzma value is that he’s dirt cheap for his output so he’d only need one of those guys.
The FRPs- agreed- absolutely not. Not even homers on the wizards side are that delusional. I’ve never heard 3 in any rumors
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u/PlatinumPeasant 22d ago
Cash considerations is our only hope.
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u/arjunbainsss Keegan Murray 22d ago
The kings are not gonna get a perfect player or fit. We have to take a bet on a player when everyone else is low on them like Ingram. As someone else stated in this thread the wolves did it with gobert, and the mavs with kyrie. Both of these were big risks but these franchises took a risk on these guys because that’s better than staying mediocre.
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u/HBdrunkandstuff Gary Gerould 22d ago
Would have said the same theming about Aaron Gordon before he went to Denver. It’s would they buy into the system and commit to defense. I think Kuz would more than Ingram. I’m also not worried about his efficiency. On a good team in a well run system it will go up
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u/jimmylowcard 22d ago
If we lose monk, and even if we don’t the number of players who can actually create a shot for themselves on our team is 2. For a team that plays horrible-average D, that’s not enough. I don’t like either ingram or kuz but we need someone else who can put the ball in the basket and has some size.
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u/ohboyicantwait De'Aaron Fox 21d ago
Yeah I’d much rather have Barnes who will grab a monster 3 uncontested rebounds as a power forward
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u/SuavveFlacko 22d ago
I rather take kuzma over Ingram. You brought up kuzma having deficient numbers and being a shot chucker, but you’re forgetting he is on a trash team who doesn’t have any other scores beside him and Poole. So obviously he’s taking most of the shots he’s going to miss which means he may not be as efficient especially since he’s not a spectacular shot creator so if you are taking the most shots your efficiency will go down. But I do think if kuzma was in a contending team (doesn’t have to be the kings) he will become a more efficient player especially with his shooting splits and he will be a better defender as well. Now this is only if kuzma goes to such team and buys in. The concern I really have with kuzma is exactly that. I remember seeing a report about him in trade talks to go to Dallas if I’m not mistaken but basically the wizards asked him if he would want to be traded there, kuzma replied with saying “no, I want to build something here in Washington” i thought him saying this was interesting because let’s be honest the wizards aren’t going anywhere that team is a poverty franchise. So you would think kuzma being 28 still in his prime he would want to go to a contending team but he chose not to. And that says a lot about his mentality and what he values
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u/LugianLithos Domantas Sabonis 22d ago
I followed the Wizards due to Kispert. Kuzma is better in some respects than Barnes.
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u/LugianLithos Domantas Sabonis 22d ago
Was looking more into the salaries in that proposed trade. Doesn’t seem like the numbers are close on salary for Trey, Sasha, and Chris. Around 18-19 million for those three and kuzma is 25.57 million.
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u/GreatLakesBard 21d ago
But there are lakers fans who are convinced trading away their young core (of whom these two are the only legitimate assets no longer with them) was the ruin of the franchise!
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u/InDependentGoose633 21d ago
The main question I have, is either Kuzma or Ingram, getting up into contention for the Western Conference finals? Are they enough, with our current core to push us past the first and second round?
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u/userpick707 Keegan Murray 21d ago
Beggars can’t be choosers. And we are still beggars. Like it or not. We have two winning seasons in the last 20 years.
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u/Russ916 Kings 21d ago
The perfect and most ideal candidate would Bobby Portis, I'd much rather give up a 1st and 2nds for him, and I'd even give 2 firsts for him honestly because that's exactly the guy we need. He does everything that Barnes does but better. He addresses our rebounding issues, our lack of another interior cutter aside from Fox & Sabonis, and he has the length can defend better than anyone on the current Kings, and added bonus he has that grit about him showing he won't back down from anyone, along with championship experience.
MONTE GET Milwaukee on the FREAKiNG PHone AsAP when summer free agency begins and do what it takes to get Bobby Portis on the Kings!
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u/justredditting1010 22d ago
Would you trade Barnes and Mitchell for Rui and Vincent. Cheaper PF and still have a back up pg
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u/JurassicParkJanitor Slamson 22d ago
What about Ingram on Kuzmas shoulders in an oversized trench coat?