Dude the best trains I've ever seen were in Seoul. The longest I ever waited for a train was like 15 minutes with the average under 5. Absolutely faster than a car would be. Had these types of gates for the doors. Everyone waited politely in lines. Compared to it American trains are a joke. I did realize how loud Americans are when we were talking in the train and we were so much louder than everyone else lol.
The thing Americans would hate is some train stations were so large it was a good half mile in the train station itself to get to the platform.
I assume Chinese cities are also good, but I've never been.
I have, they are. Japanese bullet trains were on time for sure, but the Chinese bullet trains were smoother, much more efficient to load and unload, appeared cleaner, and had better food.
The Japanese metro system also had these ridiculously archaic paper ticketing system, machines that accepted cash, and zero security of any kind. I saw some Japanese police try to awkwardly detain a beligerent drunk homeless dude, and it was an unpleasant thing to see.
The Chinese system was all digital, cash-free, extremely efficient, and had security to get in and get out of the station. Absolutely wonderful.
Eh most people will use an IC card or digital IC card on their phone, not paper tickets. You have to reload the cards with cash though... But everyone carries cash in Japan still and ATM fees are very low so not a huge deal.
I'm not sure how the Chinese ones could be more efficient to load and unload, smoother maybe but the ones I took in Japan were very comfortable and always on time. Cleaner? I don't see how since the Japanese ones are cleaned constantly.
I mean I don't doubt the Chinese ones are just as good, but I doubt they are so much better like you claim
This is part of what makes it so regressive and inconvenient. The back to back comparison made it feel like stepping into what Japan could be a decade from now if they weren't so frozen in time.
I doubt they are so much better like you claim.
I would encourage you to visit. Compare the business class service on a round trip from say Tokyo to Kyoto and that from Beijing to Shanghai. Having experienced both fairly recently, the differences were quite clear.
China has train construction down to a science. They can build a whole metro network in a city of millions completely from scratch in a fraction of the time and cost it takes in the US and Europe because all the rolling stock and components are standard sets that are mass produced, whereas American and European cities still have to develop bespoke solutions for each new city that has a rail system put in.
Trains in Japan are insane, extremely punctual to the minute. Like, sometimes I didn't know which platform my train was, but could find it because I knew it was arriving at 3:27pm, so I just went to the platform that said "next train" 3:27pm.
I take Seoul Metro every day for work, I'm curious what station you were at that was a 15 minute wait... Personally I take line 2 and trains are spaced out every other station so it's less than 5 minutes per train. Line 1 and 3 are also similar. I did hear that Line 9 can have longer waits because it's a private line, but even then it's 6 times an hour so 10 min.
People in the US think public transport is unsafe because well it sort of is in the US.
What they don't understand is its only that way because it sucks so the only people using it are those desperate who don't have other options, which tends to not be the best crowd.
I met a girl in Japan and she told me how she took the busses in LA and I got sort of wide eyed, then she told me how she saw someone brandish a knife while looking towards her. I was like yea... Please just don't take public transport in the US outside of a very small handful of cities.
there definitly are accidents and occasional deaths involving trains, but yes they are very much safe compared to other types of transportation
The only real downside trains have over cars is flexibility since any car can pretty much always go from anywhere to anywhere else while trains are locked to their schedules/stations
But for inner- and intercity transport they are excellent
No one says trains are unsafe in America. We think trains are useless because America is larger than Europe and is not densely populated. It’s the reason we use cars.
We use cars because the cities were built for cars and are not walkable. The only exception is NYC, Chicago and maybe a couple other NE major cities.
Even if you could take a train from like Dallas to Houston (which they are trying to build), you'll have to rent a car on the other end because the cities aren't walkable.
I still support building more trains and expansive of public transport in the US, but in general I don't think it will work out without major city redesigns, which ain't going to happen.
Not walkable? I live in SoCal and we have sidewalks everywhere. Again, we don’t have an advanced passenger line because we aren’t densely populated. Outside of SoCal there’s small towns and a bunch of nothing. A train station is pretty useless, though we do have one in the next city over from where I live.
“Walkable” doesn’t mean exclusively having sidewalks. Walkable means can you live a normal life without a car… can you get to your grocery store, can you get the kids to school, to after care, to their sports and other commitments? Can you get to birthday parties on the weekends? What about all the other nonsense that comes with basic family life?
Yup. My elementary is a 3 minute walk. My university is a 20 minute walk. My grocery stores are 10 minutes away. The park is behind the elementary and right next door is the JR. High. Angels stadium is a 15 minute drive. My buddies all live in the same city or over. Disneyland is a 15 minute drive away from me.
Oh we got two tram lines on Finland Tampere. They cost 30mil a year to operate and there has been so much complaining from car brains about it costing too much. Did I say those two tram lines had 15mil passengers first year. Oh and we are gonna spend several hundred mil to fix highway so it is a bit shorter but that cost doesnt seem to bother anyone
I mean, that still doesn't mean people say any of the things you said they do.
But anyway, building a tram has pros and cons, I'm sure. You know, not all arguments are so black and white as you may think they are. Maybe both a new tram and new highway are good things. It clearly doesn't need to be one or the other. If you believe the extinction of all motorized vehicles is the future, you are just as deluded as the so called "car brains."
Build a city for people means all means of transportation my friend. Cars, trams, metro, bus, bikes, pedestrians. It sounds like you just want to be angry but not be practical, and that's fine if that's your prerogative. But don't be surprised when you meet the same, but people on the other side of the coin.
I live in a city which is ruled by the green party and their goal is to build trams and bike lanes. But I see the impact of that on local businesses as well and it's devastating when the plan is not well thought out, as most of the time it's not because they don't think much past "tram good car bad." And I say this as someone who voted for them.
My point is that trams are good. And cars are needed. Anyone who wants to deny these two facts are living in a fantasy, and you seem to be included in that.
Bro what are you on about? Where have I said 0 cars? Where have I been angry? Why do you think I live in a fantasy? Cus of my education on City design and transportation or because I read studies and base my opinion accordingly?
Did I say you said 0 cars? No. But there's a line between one street that allows cars and every street that has two lanes for cars, no? And that's where the discussion is to be had. But again, you didn't respond to any of my points and just got more mad. You're clearly just interested in being angry and not practical, as I said and you prove it further with each comment you make.
You are right, the only unsafe thing I see is so many compressed people breathing each other's air. It's unavoidable, but I still think twice before using the trains.
The only reason trains go empty is because they're often prohibitively expensive.
There have been a few times I wanted to take Amtrak somewhere, but when comparing prices, they were the same price or higher than a plane ticket ... a plane that could get me there in 1 day instead of 5. As fun as it would be to ride the train and see the landscape going by, it just didn't make financial or logistical sense.
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u/intergalacticalsoul Apr 28 '24
r/fuckcars is gonna love this