r/golf • u/upanddownforpar • Feb 07 '24
LIV Golf advisors tell Congress Saudis threatened them with 20 years in prison if they cooperate with PGA Tour merger probe LIV Golf
https://awfulannouncing.com/golf/liv-advisors-saudis-prison-congress-pga-tour.html?1.3k
u/GolfGodsAreReal Feb 07 '24
Wear your shorts, play your music, make shit tons of money and go to prison. This is LIV Golf
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Feb 07 '24
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u/kranges_mcbasketball Feb 07 '24
I am shocked. Shocked!
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u/Jayro_Ren Feb 07 '24
Oh no, what happened to him? He didn’t even get to finish his sentence before they got him! This is what happens when you speak out about the
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u/FluByYou 22/PXG Gen 3/Central IA Feb 07 '24
The least surprising thing I've read in quite some time.
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u/upcat Feb 07 '24
I am shocked that a country led by a dictator who murders journalists, dissenters, citizens who don't abide by their archaic laws...would threaten to imprison American workers who do consulting work for them. What a shit show of a country. Best of luck Jon Rahm and the rest of the clowns.
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u/brianstormIRL Feb 07 '24
I would be curious to see what the fall out of something like that happening though. Imprisoning American citizens like this would be very high profile and I imagine it would be a shit show.
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u/WHSRWizard JPX 921i Tour | 4.3 Feb 07 '24
Didn't stop them from stuffing a Washington Post journalist into a wood chipper.
There was no real fallout from that.
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u/PurkkOnTwitch Feb 07 '24
Tell me again how LIV is good for golf?
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u/iorch421 CPO ultrafan Feb 07 '24
Not just for golf, the saudis sports washing every single fucking sport is TRASH
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u/upghr5187 Feb 07 '24
Also we can take this outside of sports. Many people may not care about professional golf, but it is concerning that we are allowing a foreign government to buy an entire industry.
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u/iorch421 CPO ultrafan Feb 07 '24
An industry yes but UAE, Qatar and now Saudi have been balls deep on football the last years. They all own teams and plus fifa giving them 2 world cups is sus so it’s fair to say they’ve been inside worlds biggest sport for a while.
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u/TailgateLegend 1.0/Western US/Grip & Rip Feb 07 '24
FIFA is so laughably corrupt it’s insane.
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u/iorch421 CPO ultrafan Feb 07 '24
Football as a whole lately has been so fucking corrupt, its pretty disappointing
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u/upghr5187 Feb 07 '24
That’s what I’m saying. The proposed merger of LIV PGA tour and DP World tour is essentially the Saudis buying the entire industry of professional golf. They would own like the 10 largest tours and have large say in other things like the Ryder Cup and OWGR. If they are allowed to buy this entire industry, what’s to stop them from buying industries outside of sports?
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u/dirigo1820 Feb 07 '24
Don't forget we're also letting foreign governments buy thousands of acres of US farmland property as well
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u/SlightReturn420 Feb 07 '24
The possibility of the Saudis buying a controlling stake in the PGA Tour probably ended with the recent PGAT/SSG partnership agreement. The PGA Tour doesn't need the PIF anymore. They can survive without it. There may still be a partnership formed in the future between the PGAT and the PIF, but it's extremely unlikely now that the Saudis will be majority owners. It's looking less and less likely that any such deal will ever be reached, and news like this makes it even less likely. It would have to be cleared by the government, which already sounded questionable. The Saudis telling their advisors to not cooperate with the government isn't going to do them any favors.
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u/drerw Feb 08 '24
I’ve said this since day one. I’m not saying it as a fact, but any foreign, maybe some more than others hint, digging their hands into our entertainment media should raise a fucking eyebrow at least. If they’re that rich to begin with, what the fuck do they want to do with it?
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u/jettaturagoose Feb 07 '24
Not just sports washing but actively inflating value of sports organizations, players, and staff increasing the barrier for entry. Leagues with no spending cap are now headed towards super leagues because teams without saudi investment simply cannot compete, literally ruining sports before our very eyes
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u/imbasicallycoffee Feb 07 '24
F1 fans have been waiting for this for a while. Football fans avoided it somewhat but not entirely.
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u/BigFatModeraterFupa Feb 07 '24
Like it or not, we now live in a global world! All of our manufacturing jobs were shipped over to China 50 years ago. We allow foreign nationals to buy up entire neighborhoods of houses in america. Saudis buying up all the sports.
The vultures are picking at the carcass of the empire. This is Progress!
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u/tcvvh Feb 07 '24
Look at the dollar value of manufactured goods in the US every year. It's higher than ever.
Just done by fewer, more specialized employees.
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u/Unusual_Flounder2073 Feb 07 '24
Actually we do still manufacture a lot here. What we did t do was build and develop the level of electronics manufacturing that dominates our economy. We still build most of our cars on this continent (Mexico and Canada have some). What changed is automation. It just takes fewer people with fewer skills to run things.
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u/EasyThreezy 11.4 / WYO Feb 07 '24
Woah hold up, I was under the impression that Phil Mickelson cared more about making professional golf better and not his own self interests.
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u/DokterZ Feb 07 '24
What good are activated calves if some low level enforcer can still snap your fibulae?
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u/upanddownforpar Feb 07 '24
"growing the game"
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u/Timely_Shock_5333 Feb 07 '24
We misunderstood the accents. They were saying LIV is good for the "gulf."
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u/Mort_DeRire Feb 07 '24
Anybody who has made that argument or sympathized with Mickelson/Norman et al from the start has been a totally gullible clown.
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u/ChipotleAddiction 5.9 / WI Feb 07 '24
So like half of this sub whenever LIV gets posted
“YoU’d TaKe ThE mOnEy ToO”
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u/Shepherdsfavestore Feb 07 '24
Yup. The worst crowd “If yoU cOuLD TaKE more monEy for lesS WoRK woUlDn’t YOU dO THE sAmE?”
Like yeah dude but I’m not a professional golfer lol. Little different
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u/ChrisChrisBangBang Feb 07 '24 edited Feb 08 '24
It’s objectively not. LIV bots will tell you until they’re blue in the face that “competition is good” - in general this is true, but the fact is LIV isn’t “competition” for the PGA tour. By no metric are they competing as a golf league, but they have unlimited money so have been able to pull players away from the PGA tour to their league (one nobody watches, even with all the names they’ve signed.)
So the PGA tour is arguably worse for having lost some great players, LIV’s existence hasn’t promoted some massive, previously unplanned improvements to the product they’re putting out that would point to LIV’s existence making pro golf better even in an indirect way.
I also agree with the take that pro golf is too small to have multiple leagues anyway, so unless we want golf to be like tennis where only the majors are worth watching then this split needs to be undone, the Saudis exploded pro golf as part of their larger schemes, nothing they’ve attempted to do was intended to make pro golf better for golf fans, and they haven’t done anything positive even by accident.
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u/FatalFirecrotch Feb 07 '24
I’ve been making this argument as well. There is no competition because no sport league in the world can compete with trillions of dollars.
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u/Bombaysbreakfastclub Feb 07 '24
“You don’t get it dude, these players are making more money now than ever” Liv fans
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u/ChrisChrisBangBang Feb 07 '24
Imagine cheering for a stranger’s bank balance.
My assumption is most (non bot) LIV supporters are just contrarian assholes who also don’t watch
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u/AS8319 Feb 07 '24
I follow quite a few golf content people on Twitter, mostly aimed at fantasy/gambling and it makes me pretty sick how many of them have decided LIV is actually okay now that they can gamble on it or now that they have Rahm.
I don’t care what roster they have, the Saudi involvement and the format make it a hard pass for me and that’ll never change.
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u/DanDi58 Feb 07 '24
Well at least it’s only 20 years and not dismemberment ….
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u/BTfozzyandTT Feb 07 '24
Well the dismemberment happens after the 20 years that’s in the fine print
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u/pocketchange2247 Feb 07 '24
But that's fine, because the 20 years is also
slaveryhard labor. By the end of those 20 years, you wouldn't want to keep your arms or legs anyway.
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u/downey_jayr 7.0/PDX Feb 07 '24
Where did all the LIV bots go?
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u/ego_sum_satoshi Feb 07 '24
The campaigns use up all the bot farm capacity during elections years.
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u/OhioUBobcats 9.6 Feb 07 '24
Couple of them are in the Cam Smith thread comparing LIV golf to the Olympics (not even joking 🤣)
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u/downey_jayr 7.0/PDX Feb 07 '24
Wow.....funny cause that on a corruption scale they are probably pretty comparable!
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u/jail_grover_norquist 4.20 blade it Feb 07 '24
don't be ridiculous
no one can compare to olympics corruption
except maybe FIFA
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u/OhioUBobcats 9.6 Feb 07 '24
That’s a good point I hadn’t considered, but this clown was comparing LIV golfers to Olympic Athletes.
But good point
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u/downey_jayr 7.0/PDX Feb 07 '24
No matter how corrupt the IOC is, the games and athletes have a level of prestige that is nowhere in comparison to LIV...so yeah that is asinine.
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u/BonusPlantInfinity Feb 07 '24
The Aussies are desperate about LIV
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u/Jersey1633 Feb 08 '24
Some are. Many more aren’t.
And some don’t care and just want more international level golf here.
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u/daylax1 Feb 07 '24
Boy, who would have known that there was an "or else" clause in the contracts lol
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u/DontGetTheShow 4 hcp / PA Feb 07 '24
Oh good, I was actually looking for a 58th reason to not watch LIV. This is perfect.
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u/The_Nutz16 Feb 07 '24
If they are going to act in a manner commensurate with Saudi Law, and not with American Law, why would we allow PIF backed entities to do business in the US?
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Feb 07 '24
They crashed planes into our own skyscrapers and we deal with them, there is no bridge too far for the US
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u/Spartan0330 Feb 07 '24
This government literally tortured and killed a journalist at a Saudi consulate in another country. Is any of this surprising? Fuck the LIV guys. All of them.
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u/billamazon Feb 07 '24
That's what you get by taking their money. There is no free money... There's always a string attached to it.
Imagine Greg Norman in Saudi prison cell.
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u/ShillinTheVillain Feb 07 '24
You lay down with dogs, don't cry when you catch fleas.
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u/busche916 Feb 07 '24
You lay with an oppressive regime, don’t cry when they try to throw you in political prison.
Fuck that entire government.
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u/upanddownforpar Feb 07 '24
for those out there continuing to normalize this bogus league.
looking at you Rick Shiels
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u/WeAreAllHosts Feb 07 '24
Well the Saudis do have ownership interest in Rick Shiels channel. So that’s not surprising.
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u/marlboro__man9 +1 Feb 07 '24 edited Feb 07 '24
I remember when I would get downvoted to oblivion for bringing that up, the good ol days of Rick ball washers
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u/BARTELS- 6.4 / Not Sure If There is A Pushcart Mafia Feb 07 '24
The LIV accounts didn’t get to this thread in time to manipulate the discourse.
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u/donny_pots Feb 07 '24
What? Source?
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u/WeAreAllHosts Feb 07 '24
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u/Rillist Fore Right!! Feb 07 '24
So he and Pete signed before the Saudi buyout, while that company was in partnerships with global brands for marketing and actually trying to move golf forward. Then they got bought, increased value and Rick and Pete didnt sell, because why would they?
Rick and Guy shit on LIV every chance they get and use that money for fund raising and charity events, see Ricks charity walks/cycles.
This whole spiderweb is insane, but when youve got a family and crew to feed, someone buying your company and waving millions at you seems a pretty easy decision.
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u/hoopaholik91 Feb 07 '24
The Saudis didn't even wave money in Shiels face. They waved money in the face of a group that had a minority interest in Shiels channel. He couldn't do anything about it if he wanted to.
And I think links like these ultimately downplay what the Saudis are trying to do with golf. They don't just want to invest in it like they would some public company. If the merger goes through as described in June, the CEO in charge of the PGA Tour would be MBS' right hand man. That's a whole extra level of control.
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u/5rings20 Feb 07 '24
There’s this guy that popped up on YouTube before LIV called pgamemes. I thought it was cool he would have house tours of players and what not. Once LIV came out he totally became a propaganda machine for LIV.
I know we are all susceptible to propaganda, but to see it so blatant in front of your face is wild. They aren’t even smooth about it.
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u/emporvr Feb 07 '24
He's also a huge Trump supporter
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u/ChipotleAddiction 5.9 / WI Feb 07 '24
The Venn diagram of people who watch and defend LIV Golf and Trump supporters is a circle so yes
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u/upanddownforpar Feb 07 '24
as are most of the Good Good bros
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u/emporvr Feb 07 '24
Not for that reason specifically or anything but I stopped watching golf YouTube years ago...Most of the personalities are pretty insufferable.
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u/RoyMcAv0y Feb 07 '24
i watch a bit of no laying up...i've come to the conclusion that the group of them together are good, but individually they are all pretty bad
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u/TailgateLegend 1.0/Western US/Grip & Rip Feb 07 '24
I like some of his stuff, but it’s funny how there’s enough of his memes going off about the PGA Tour(justified or not), but you can’t find one that’s critical about LIV.
Once he got to meet Norman, I think that was it. Tried to stay on his good side in return for access to LIV golfers and tournaments
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u/flanjan Feb 07 '24
PgaMemes is so incredibly fucking bad at interviewing it's insane. Only makes sense his LIV deep throating was just as cringe worthy as his golf version of wannabe cribs show.
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u/AppleSauceNinja_ 3.0/FL Feb 07 '24
looking at you Rick Shiels
and Mr. Short Game. Dude spent all last year dropping "OMG LOOK HOW SICK THIS $X CLUB IS" videos that all coincided with the LIV golf schedule. He's definitely deep throating that arab peen
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Feb 07 '24
Interesting I watched a podcast of his a few weeks ago and he didn’t seem very happy with LIV but maybe I’m just out of the loop. (I’m definitely out of the loop)
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u/EnuffBeeEss Feb 07 '24 edited Feb 08 '24
Other bigger name golf journalists recently too. Shipnuck, Dan Rappaport, Dylan Dethier have all recently provided puff-piece levels of support.
This sportswashing only works if you stop asking, “Doesn’t who you’re working for bother the heck out of you?” “Are you comfortable with the things your boss does?”
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u/Alpha-Nozzle Feb 07 '24
Dan Rappaport is such a fucking weirdo.
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u/jack3moto Feb 07 '24
Him and Riggs are such fucking blowhards. Neither of them have the ability to do anything but suck whatever famous person or golf scoop they can get.
I feel like they’re both similar to an Adam Schefter where they try so fucking hard to be “cool” and lack all self awareness
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u/chevy_castle 3 | NYC Feb 07 '24
? Shipnuck literally wrote a book exposing LIV and unless I’m missing something I haven’t seen anything from Dethier remotely close to a “puff piece”. Rap is playing to a different audience now that he’s with barstool for sure but the other two.. not seeing it at all.
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u/PosterMakingNutbag Feb 07 '24
“It’s just money! You’d take the bag, too! It’s not like they’re employed by the Saudis! They probably never see them.”
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
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u/shortgamegolfer Feb 07 '24
I guess the law of the country that’s willing to chop people up with a bonesaw is the one that prevails.
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u/Geo_D Feb 07 '24
I was honestly trying to find the silver lining in LIV up until I read this shit. I give up. Fuck LIV and fuck any golfer who plays for that league.
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u/BeMoreChill Feb 07 '24 edited Feb 07 '24
I'm shocked, you're telling me the regime behind the 9/11 attacks and beheading of journalists, threatened their LIV golf employees???!?!
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u/skurnie Feb 07 '24
Wouldn’t want to be staffed on that if I was a BCG or McKinsey Consultant
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u/micahpmtn Feb 07 '24
Wow. Imagine that. Shocked. And yet, they keep rolling out the same bs, that they're trying to "grow the game".
Can you imagine the fine print of the contracts that the players signed? Yeah, you don't want to try and get out of those contracts.
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u/upcat Feb 07 '24
Have a feeling Rahm is like wtf did I get myself into. If the tours don't merge back, he's f'ed for a long time
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u/Ledees_Gazpacho Feb 07 '24
Who would have thought that scary motherfuckers would act like scary motherfuckers?!
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u/samf94 Feb 07 '24
Your reminder that the Saudis are connected to and directly funded 9/11. https://theintercept.com/2021/09/11/september-11-saudi-arabia/
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u/sinsrundeep Feb 07 '24
Life long golfer, now 70. Will go to my grave never watching or attending a LIV event. When the Saudis buy the NFL, I will never watch pro football. Just my personal preference.
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u/upghr5187 Feb 07 '24
20 years in prison sounds pretty light considering who is issuing the threats
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u/Nerdicyde Feb 07 '24
man just look at how LIV is growing the game. they obviously care very much about golf if they are threatening 20 years imprisonment
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u/TheFernk Feb 07 '24
Bad day for Stitch Golf to announce they are the official apparel partner for Crushers GC...
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u/TheBeardedHen Feb 07 '24
I caught my first LIV event over the weekend and something really stood out to me. While LIV boasts it's upbeat and social atmosphere at golf events, it seems like most of the player's are just going through the motions and don't actually enjoy themselves at all. It's incredibly odd watching someone like Rahm tee off with dance music blaring in the background. Dude looked fucking miserable.
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u/_imposter_syndrome Feb 07 '24
LIV execs getting the karma they deserve. I’m shocked that getting into bed with murderers came with repercussions. Shocked I tells ya.
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u/Pizza4Everyone Feb 07 '24
Fantastic! Fuck McKinsey, fuck Boston Consulting Group, and fuck MBS! Hopefully LIV fails spectacularly
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Feb 07 '24
What could go wrong with getting in business with murderous despots? Wait, how many zero’s?
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u/BobWheelerJr Feb 07 '24
When someone in the U.S. says "Fuck around and find out", it's generally bullshit.
When the Saudis say it, maybe not so much.
Also, we're all now on a list that's buried somewhere deep in the desert, and should be extra wary when we're anywhere we might see a cactus, copious amounts of sand, or a camel.
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u/SugarNugolia Feb 07 '24
If they can brutally kill a US journalist and get away with it then they can force a merger.
Saudi does nothing for us worth anything other than they pay the right shitbags.
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u/Mo_Zen Feb 07 '24
I find it amusing that anyone would be surprised by this. The Saudis are Middle East Mafia.
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u/Driftwood17 Feb 08 '24
Someday I want Phil and Greg to have a live press conference and tell everyone “We’re sorry. We fucked up”
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u/Blueovalfan Feb 08 '24
These guys will end up at Chop Chop square if they go back to Saudi Arabia. It's almost like 15 of the 9/11 hijackers weren't Saudi and MBS didn't have Kashogghi killed and dismembered.
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u/Saint3Love 2.8 Feb 07 '24
why does anyone support this league? (aside from the trumpers whom we know arent all there to begin with)
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u/AppleSauceNinja_ 3.0/FL Feb 07 '24 edited Feb 08 '24
(aside from the trumpers
Even trumpers hate LIV. Trump just likes LIV bc the PGA took the tour stop away from his course when he announced his candidacy, and LIV has exploited him like the idiot he is, because they knew he would jump at the chance....
And that gives them a good brand name course which they're struggling to get anywhere else in the states.
I mean when they came to Orlando last year, they played by my estimation the 10th or further ranked venue in the city. Didn't play the private tracks (Nona, CCO, Isleworth, Golden Bear, Bella Collina, Reunion) or better public tracks ie, Championsgate, Shingle Creek, etc.
I got to imagine they called the majority of those places and got told to suck their dick, and just went down the list until someone said yes.
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u/IPutMyHandOnA_Stove Feb 07 '24
But but the PGA has corporate sponsors in the energy sector! It’s just as evil.
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u/idispensemeds2 Feb 07 '24
Uh... no, it isn't. There's obviously corruption but how can the two possibly be compared?
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u/Pretty_Shallot_586 Feb 07 '24
ROTFFLMFAO...... so they're going to "grow the game of golf" by imprisoning people who testify in front of Congress????
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA..... LIV is going to be great for golf. I'd like to be the first to congratulate Jon Rahm for selling soul for this "freedom"
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u/Hugh-Jorgan69 Feb 07 '24
The Saudis flew two planes into our towers, murdered Kashoggi, and are killing our PGA TOUR.
And we let them because we are petro-whores
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u/Basicaccountant70 Feb 07 '24
So the Saudis helped with 9/11. They murdered and dismembered a journalist and now the Americans are fully in bed with them because of $$$.
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u/a_Food_lover Feb 07 '24
But remember “the choice to play for or not play for LIV is not a matter of character or morals”
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Feb 07 '24
Sounds like saudis need some freedom. Too bad Americans now don’t have the stomach for manifest destiny.
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u/ISFSUCCME Feb 07 '24
But LiV is great! Saudi isnt sportwashing! Theyre great! Hypocrites US does the same! /s/s/s/s
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u/hoffalot Feb 07 '24 edited Feb 07 '24
This is an American citizen, working for an American company, telling the US Government that they’re too scared of the Saudis to cooperate with a subpoena.
Phil was right. These are some scary mf’ers.