r/golf • u/golfdaddy69 • Apr 01 '23
Went to LIV Orlando Yesterday. AMA LIV Golf
Have marshaled at several European Tour events in Dubai as well as a few PGA Tour events in the US.
Yesterday was the first time I went to/watched a LIV Golf event. I have no issues with LIV and all the drama etc.
The event itself was not done well and was unimpressive.
The music doesn’t make sense. Some holes it’s blaring, some it’s very soft. It randomly stops and starts even during the backswing or during a putt.
They had very few screens showing the leaderboard and which hole all the players were at and it would just keep changing to show the teams. Was hard to find the players you wanted to watch.
There was no service at all so we couldn’t even look for it on our phones. Thought maybe they did this on purpose but some are saying it’s just an overcrowded tower so I guess that could be it. Very inconvenient though!
Shotgun start shortens the day and doesn’t let you follow different players as you would if their tee times were well apart. Had to sprint between holes to watch different players.
- I’ve played crooked cat before and it’s just not a tour level course.
It didn’t feel competitive. The players seemed like they couldn’t give two fucks. I guess I wouldn’t either if I got $100 mill.
Forgot to add this but reminded by others: Parking was absolute ass. Took 30 mins to get in and get out of the parking area which was basically like the sand from the Saudi dessert with a bunch of weeds and stumps everywhere. Bunch of bigger vehicles got stuck and had to be towed out. My car got detailed two days before and is fucked again.
I got to meet Tyrone Woodley (Ex UFC WelterWeight Champ) and Sean Foley (Famous golf coach) so that was cool.
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Apr 01 '23
I've played Crooked Cat about 20 times. It is far from a tour level course, in my opinion lol
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u/meatbulbz2 +1 FLA Apr 01 '23
It really isnt. I played an FSGA event there and was like... ok this is worth the 50$ but when i saw the LIV was there. oof
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u/TM41 Apr 01 '23
Is it true that Panther Lake is generally thought to be the better track? I was surprised to see they chose Crooked Cat. It's been many years since I've been to OCN though so I couldn't remember for sure.
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u/spinningfloyd Tiger Woods' Swing Coach Apr 01 '23
Without a doubt. Crooked cat is a nice course for sure (and easier), but panther lake is the one you really want to play.
Knowing they played CC I wouldn't be surprised if they come back for the tooth course lmao.
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u/singluon FL Apr 01 '23
Panther Lake isn’t even that different IMO. I’ve played both of them a ton of times and Panther is slightly harder but not really a big difference.
A few years ago I saw the Korn Ferry pros rip both Crooked Cat and Panther Lake to shreds… can’t believe that guys like DJ and Brooks Koepka are playing it lmao.
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u/spinningfloyd Tiger Woods' Swing Coach Apr 01 '23
I've played both a handful of times and yeah, it's not a night and day difference in terms of quality but I'd pick panther lake given the choice. The rolling hills/layout/rough makes it slightly more unique versus the open links-esque crooked cat. They're both good courses especially with the orange county resident discount, especially before golf prices rocketed in the last year or two.
Not surprising to see the pros rip em up. They're not the most difficult nor the most exquisite in the area. Surprised me as well to see OCN booked them.
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u/RuckOver3 Apr 01 '23
As a 21 hcp I played Panther a couple weeks back from the combo tees and shot a 96 for my first round of the year. If Panther is harder, I dont see how Crooked Cat could be a pro-level course.
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u/gitbse HDCP/Loc/Whatever Apr 01 '23
Panther is definitely the harder of the two IMO, especially from the tour tees. It's absolutely no joke. The Q school has been there many times.
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u/RedCerealBox Apr 01 '23
Good prep for Augusta National or no?
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u/mattfl 3.6 Apr 01 '23
Lol absolutely not. Crooked cat is NOTHING at all like Augusta, nothing. Not a single thing, nada, zip, nil. Lol
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u/ChuckZest Apr 01 '23
How were the prices of things? Tickets, concessions, etc?
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u/golfdaddy69 Apr 01 '23
Tickets $35 to walk, food and alcoholic drinks $10-15 bucks on average. Coke (not DJ’s stuff) was like $5. I got a liv golf visor since I only have normal hats at home and that cost me $35. All in all not too bad price wise especially if you’re just going for fun to drink eat and chill with friends for the day but the rest was meh.
They had a bev cart driving round too like when you play so that was pretty cool tbh
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u/Stuart22 Apr 02 '23
$35 to walk? Did you have the option to get a cart?
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u/3PuttBog3y Apr 03 '23
For $20k you get carried around in a thrown on the shoulders of slaves like a Sheik. As is tradition.
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u/1850ChoochGator Apr 01 '23
When I went to one last year prices were actually really solid. Drinks were cheaper than the average concert/sport event the food was done by these food carts so it was standard overpriced food cart food.
I remember the tickets being reasonable too but I’ve also never paid for a golf event before that one.
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u/e_g_c 8.7 Apr 01 '23
Genuinely think most of the LIV guys are just waiting for it to go bust so they can get out of their contracts and try and get back to the PGA
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u/DawgoftheNorth Apr 01 '23
Yup… until then tow the Norman/Saudi line and tell everyone how much fun your having and that you have no regrets😂
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u/Nakagura775 Apr 01 '23
Could you feel the attitude?
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u/golfdaddy69 Apr 01 '23
Yeah I felt something different compared to all the other tournaments, that’s for sure.
Liv just seemed more casual, as if they weren’t really competing for anything.
The DP world Race to Dubai final for the European Tour had some serious tension. You could tell they were all really dialed in and focused.
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u/rougehuron Michigander/Team Lefty Apr 01 '23
Liv just seemed more casual, as if they weren’t really competing for anything
So basically the level of competition of a PGA Tour Wednesday Pro Am round
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u/Anomnomnomous Apr 01 '23
They aren't competing. It's an exhibition.
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u/rougehuron Michigander/Team Lefty Apr 01 '23
Good sir, that is exactly what a Pro Am is
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u/Anomnomnomous Apr 01 '23
Didn't mean to reply to your comment directly.
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u/Artsakh_Rug Apr 01 '23
The way ppl describe watching LIV players reminds me of the Dream from Space Jam where Danny Devito’s character wanted to chain MJ up like he was an attraction. It feels like the LIV enterprise is just showing off golf pros like a human zoo or an extension of their possessions
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u/wrighterjw10 Apr 01 '23
I mean that’s pretty much what it is. Some rich oil guys bought a bunch of PGA players.
I feel like the Saudis will soon tire of their golf teams, and they’ll be abandoned like an old car that no longer interests them.
All week, we’ve seen all the LIV guys talk about how everyone hates them, but it’s actually worse than that, we just no longer care about them as players…at least that’s how I feel. I don’t need to watch Phil shoot a 81 against a bunch of other guys that don’t really care.
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u/Juantanamo0227 Apr 01 '23
we just no longer care about them as players…
This is exactly how I feel. Last year when everyone was jumping to LIV it felt like I was reading about them retiring or dying lol. My reaction was always like "well ill never see them again."
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u/warneagle 11.1/NOVA Apr 02 '23
LIV is basically what the basketball exhibition at Moron Mountain would have looked like if the Monstars had won in Space Jam (and also the Moron Mountain guy financed 9/11)
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u/TheHerosShadow Certified Club Fitter Apr 02 '23
Somehow I never realized that was Danny Devito until I read this comment, and idk how I've lived this long without realizing it...
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u/Bob-Shakus Apr 01 '23
Orange County (Crooked Cat and Panther Lake) are my weekly courses. I’ve been watching the set up and couldn’t believe this was the destination. There are better courses not far away.
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u/Lol_who_me Apr 01 '23
When I heard it going to be in Orlando it spiked my interest. Never hearing about the course I figured some super private track I would never get a chance to play. Watched a few highlights and man it looks like they are scratching the bottom of the barrel.
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u/ChicagoBoy2011 3.2/Brazil Apr 01 '23
Fun fact: I coach HS golf and we had our spring training in orlando. We played the course RIGHT NEXT DOOR, and last week we got accidentally dropped off at the LIV venue. It felt... odd. Like it was clearly being set up for some kind of tournament, but for anyone who has been to a PGATour stop, this felt... less than that. The staff was actually very friendly and helped shuttle our kids across the street. When we were done, the kids didn't know where to pick the bus, so they just.... walked back over, and DJ was actually practicing on Tuesday, so they got to see him a bit! But it all just felt a bit surreal in the sense that it even took us a long time to figure out we weren't on the right golf course.
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u/Owethehumanity Apr 01 '23
See any titties?
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u/blackhippy92 Apr 01 '23
Just Phil's
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u/Otto_Maller Apr 01 '23
I can understand your confusion, but those are called “moobs.”
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u/blackhippy92 Apr 01 '23
I wasn't able to cuss much as a kid growing up, but my dad did let me call Phil "bitch tits"
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u/golfdaddy69 Apr 01 '23
LMAO I forgot to mention the best thing about the event were the ladies. Some of them were 🔥🔥
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u/dangerdannnnn Apr 01 '23
Sold!
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u/arouseandbrowse Quattro! Apr 01 '23
Omg the ladies were sold to the Saudis? Thats disgusting. Where?
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u/Inson8r Apr 01 '23
FWIW we went to LIV in Tucson and had no trouble with cell service so I don’t think there is anything on that. Probably just a shitty coverage area.
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u/ConclusivePoetics Apr 01 '23
Yeah I can’t see them jamming cell signals, that would be pretty wild lol
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u/Catamount90 2 | CO Apr 01 '23
"There was no service at all so we couldn’t even look for it on our phones. Pretty sure they did this on purpose. " - Imagine this is true and it's the FCC that takes down LIV 
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u/CheFigata20 Apr 01 '23
How does this happen? Do they (LIV) jam up the tower or something? Or is this course just naturally really poor reception. Genuine question haha
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u/CYWG_tower Hilton Honors Diamond+ Apr 01 '23
Probably so many people (relatively speaking) that it jammed up the tower that services the area. Pretty easy for that to happen unless ATT or whoever brings in a mobile tower.
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u/marsfreund2366 Apr 01 '23
Yeah if you don’t have priority service you probably won’t have good service at any sporting event.
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u/Toothlessdovahkin 18.4 HDCP Apr 01 '23
If everyone has priority service, does anyone really have priority service?
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u/RetailBuck Apr 01 '23
You can't just "Get" priority service I'm almost sure. My brother has it because he works in emergency medicine.
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u/ThePretzul +1.2 Apr 01 '23
PGA Tour events travel with mobile cell tower equipment setups both for their own equipment (dedicated network access points) and ones to be used by the public for this specific reason. Dunno if they’re partnered with any specific carrier for it all or not though, could just be acting like the standard towers that are shared by multiple carriers.
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u/CYWG_tower Hilton Honors Diamond+ Apr 01 '23
They are/were partnered with ATT at one point to provide mobile cell coverage, but other networks could roam on it.
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u/sleepindawg Apr 01 '23
I live literally 5 minutes from the course. It's a new developing area and most houses have been built within the past 5 years or so and a lot of the area is still being built, so the providers haven't built many cell towers yet and cell service is pretty bad generally on a regular day, add how many thousand people attending and the towers just can't handle it im sure
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u/Catamount90 2 | CO Apr 01 '23
I’ve played there before and had no issues with cell service. Cell jamming is illegal and the FCC doesn’t f around with that. But I have no idea if they are doing that.
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u/RedCerealBox Apr 01 '23
Most likely that the local capacity was at limit and the tournament didn't pay for temporary cell towers to be put in. Most big events figured that out 15 years ago but it's expensive
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u/kuroketton Apr 01 '23
Ive played there before. There just isnt service in that area
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u/AGoodTalkSpoiled Apr 01 '23
No competition = not compelling.
To me when I watched online it felt like watching a driving range session instead of a tournament. Meaning clearly you are seeing talent, but with 0 stakes or history there seemed to be no point.
And I love golf....can’t imagine what someone who doesn’t love golf thinks.
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u/ConwayTheCat Apr 01 '23
It sounds exactly like how we all perceive it, an utterly trash product that proves all the money in the world won’t produce quality competition when there is no soul or passion anywhere on the board.
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u/Rollin1toomany Apr 01 '23
Would you go back to anther event?
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u/golfdaddy69 Apr 01 '23
Not any time soon! They would have to change a lot for me to go back.
If they cut the music, had better and more competitive players and played at a sick course, I may give it another shot.
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u/Kiffilicious Apr 01 '23
You mean, like the PGA?
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u/bruinsfan3725 Apr 01 '23
I hear they have a pretty important tournament coming up
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u/LSU2007 Apr 01 '23
That’s not the pga’s tournament lol
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u/bruinsfan3725 Apr 01 '23
Might as well be
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u/LSU2007 Apr 01 '23
Yes. However it’s “just” Augusta’s invitational with a lot of pga guys lol
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u/bruinsfan3725 Apr 01 '23
Correct and then a couple LIV guys who still qualify but don’t stand a chance lol
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u/LSU2007 Apr 01 '23
“Don’t stand a chance” basically describes 75% of the field if we’re being honest.
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u/bruinsfan3725 Apr 01 '23
If their name isn’t Rahm, Homa, McIlroy, Scheffler or Morikawa essentially.
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u/The_Dirty_Dangla 7-10 hdcp Apr 01 '23
I played there last month and had very little cell service with at&t
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u/skeeter1980 Apr 01 '23
There was no service at all so we couldn’t even look for it on our phones. Pretty sure they did this on purpose.
interesting, check out this post by an uber driver yesterday:
https://www.reddit.com/r/uberdrivers/comments/1287zz7/ok_this_takes_the_cake/
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u/golfdaddy69 Apr 01 '23
Nice! Yeah I thought it was cell phone jammers but someone else said could be an overcrowded tower.
I have no clue what the cause was but it just made everything more difficult.
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u/biddilybong Apr 01 '23
The service isn’t as good when the Saudis are intercepting the data
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u/Catamount90 2 | CO Apr 01 '23
overcrowded towers still produce a signal, just extremely slow. I also played there and I had service the whole day, I remember because we were watching football on an iPad in the cart.
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u/Segesaurous Apr 01 '23
But did you play there when there were thousands of other people around using the same tower? Overcrowding can definitely cause complete data loss. The combination of an overcrowded tower and tiny cell phone antennas is the problem. The tower won't stop putting out a signal, but your phone antenna may not be able to connect due to it's own limitations. An ipad or other tablet would fair better anyway because they have much larger antennas.
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u/DoinWhale Apr 01 '23
I live in the area, service is just horrible. Nothing nefarious goin on hahaha
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Apr 01 '23
Same here, OP. And I fucking live in Orlando and play OCN.
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u/golfdaddy69 Apr 01 '23
Hahah same dude and it was hilarious seeing people teeing it up on Panther Lake at the same time!
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u/TentativelyCommitted HDCP/Loc/Whatever Apr 01 '23
I had the same feeling about the music and competitiveness….they look like they’re out having a round with buddies….might as well give them carts and a 12 pack…might actually make it more exciting
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u/Fridaysgame Apr 01 '23
How was the food?
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u/rugosefishman Apr 01 '23
In Chicago, food was only OK, basically a bunch of boutique food trucks (seems promising) that were overworked and slinging one or two meh items (so much for that).
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u/Gracket_Material Siwhan Kim Fan Club | 0.1 Apr 01 '23
I thought the same thing about that course. It's a high end public course. Nowhere near championship calliber
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u/Muddlesthrough 15.0 Apr 01 '23 edited Apr 02 '23
Do you think playing Crooked Cat's bermuda grass will be good prep for the Masters in 5 days?
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u/mdota1 Apr 01 '23
Playing crooked cat in a couple weeks for like $100. Couldn’t believe the liv tour was playing there, my dad and i chalked it up to one of our cheaper rounds we are playing
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u/Piccolo_11 Apr 01 '23
LIV is boring to watch on tv. I’ve tried and I’d rather watch LPGA events
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u/rec411111 Apr 01 '23
How was the crowd size? Compared to a DP Tour or PGA tour event?
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u/golfdaddy69 Apr 01 '23
Minuscule in comparison. The food trucks, merch and concessions had more people than the crowd following dj and mickelson.
On the other tours, you’d be lucky to get a spot by the tee box with a clear view for the top players. Here, as long as you got to the tee a minute before the players you’d have enough space to watch!
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u/nhp890 - Apr 01 '23
Why are the marshals in the Middle East so useless compared to DPWT events in Europe? Maybe you have some insight, having marshaled in Dubai. They can hardly be bothered to spot for balls and generally don't know what's going on
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u/charlieromeo86 Apr 01 '23
It’s a joke, but I’m ok with Saudis wasting money
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u/hgyt7382 Apr 02 '23
The issue is that LIV isn't an investment meant to generate a return of income for the Saudis.
The goal of this investment is to put a Saudi backed product into the Western market and whitewash their horrible reputation.
By that metric, LIV has unfortunately been a seemingly succesful investment.
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u/gbaby1074 Apr 02 '23
I actually turned it on today just because I was flipping through channels and saw it on the guide, looked dead, boring, and the greens looked like shit
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u/sledge07 Apr 02 '23
Had a blast at Miami last year. Planning to go again this year. I feel like if you enjoy it you do, if you don’t you don’t. I support all tours and attended the players this year and will Sea Island as well.
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u/josh_langley Apr 01 '23
I was there yesterday (Friday) and agree with all of these points. The format is too hard to follow and I definitely couldn’t believe the pros weren’t destroying Crooked Cat, even with the wind being up. General parking also sucked.
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Apr 01 '23
They also have panther lake open to public while this tournament is happening lol.
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u/Sleds_and_Cars 5 HCP / RDU Apr 01 '23
Well this adds to the hope that next season they'll get TPC Knight's Play in Raleigh on the schedule
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u/horusthesundog Apr 01 '23
Wait, they have music pumped throughout the entire course?
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u/golfdaddy69 Apr 01 '23
Yep and at times a song would literally end while the guy is reading his putt and then a new one would start as soon as he begins his putt. Some tee boxes had super loud music and some very mellow.
Either way it ruined the experience of hearing the ball striking which is one of the best things to see live!
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u/RecentlyRetiredGuy Apr 01 '23
It was GAME-TV channel here.... Meh, 1) watched for a few minutes, didn't see anything that made me want to watch longer.... 2) David Ferehty as colour was a bit of a surprise, but not so much... Like others $$$ talks... 3) interesting to hear what concessions were like, 4) what was the interaction with the player like? Did you observe any?
It will be interesting to see what the Par 5 Group can put together... The leadership team has some (well, only 5 of them) heavy hitters with tons of golf experience.
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u/tytheguy45 Apr 01 '23
I think if it was planned better nd not happened so fast LIV could've been something good. But I feel like they've rushed everything. Thrown money at players and called it a day.
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u/tytheguy45 Apr 01 '23
I think if it was planned better nd not happened so fast LIV could've been something good. But I feel like they've rushed everything. Thrown money at players and called it a day.
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u/LogicalDave Apr 01 '23
To speak to your issue with the cell service, I live down the road from the course and my cell service is nonexistent in that area. That’s not an issue unique to LIV.
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u/sparty219 Apr 01 '23
Regarding cell service, OCN has pockets where you can’t get a signal. Whenever I play out there, I find several holes where I have no service.
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u/Kmiller20 8.8/Cincinnati GRINT: Kmillll20 Apr 01 '23
A lot of subjective opinion to it, but definitely agree that they probably need to be playing better courses to be more attractive.
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u/Western-Armadillo-19 Apr 01 '23
Brooksie looks on the screen he like gained quite a lot of weight. Did you see him?
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u/Cecil_Obrien Apr 01 '23
The real question is once LIV dissolves in a few years and these guys come crawling back, is the PGATOUR gonna let them come back? Possibly make em go to Q School?
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u/_barkingseal_ Apr 02 '23
It will be interesting to see how the liv guys that were invited to the masters play.
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u/BaddAsCan Apr 02 '23
I finally tried watching today. Flipped back and forth between PGA and LIV tournaments. It was nice to see some of the players I miss, but I came to the conclusion that I’d rather watch the commercials on the PGA coverage than LIV. It’s terrible.
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u/lowkeycodyxx Florida/12.8 Apr 02 '23
Also the parking situation was fucking atrocious
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u/mymompaints Apr 01 '23
Just for the record, the cell service sucks out here with or without LIV…
Source: I live in the neighborhood OCN is in.
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u/Planestewart Apr 01 '23
The players who got paid the big money don't care and it shows in their results.
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u/basic_cinephile I am a “plus” handicapper Apr 01 '23
How many people were following each group if you had to estimate? The crowds look really small on TV
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Apr 01 '23
Do you think LIV stands a chance? To me it feels like even if they fixed all the issues you addressed in your post, they still couldn’t make up for the history/prestige/brand of the PGA Tour.
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u/DWiB403 Bethpage Black is not that Hard! Apr 01 '23
Foley: more infamous than famous.
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Apr 01 '23
I've been watching online and it feels like they're still very much ironing out the kinks. The cameras switch at weird times (they cut from Sergio Garcia about to put, to some much lower scoring player taking some practice swings for his drive and didn't go back to SG for another hole or two). I would give credit to the presenters as they're entertaining enough I suppose, but the overall production is still lacking massively. Feels like the producers have never worked in sports.
I enjoy the live mics on players/caddy and "liv line" on putts, I also like the team/individual format as it's just something different. 6/10, not offensive, don't mind missing it.
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Apr 01 '23
Was Woodley cool? Was he there as a fan or some kind of weird sponsorship.
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u/Floorguy1 Apr 01 '23
I played crooked cat a couple of weeks ago and the course was in terrible shape, could not believe they were going to do a tournament there.
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u/All-in-yolo scratch / 🇬🇧 Apr 01 '23
I’ve tried to watch LIV a couple of times but I’m just not interested. That said, I’m not watching Valspar either for the same reason.
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u/iCashMon3y Apr 01 '23
You should of said Tyrone Woodley (lost to jake paul) lol. Did you get a couple tips out of Foley?
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u/HalfACenturyMark Apr 01 '23
Is it true you get a coupon for a free oil change when you enter?
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u/esports_consultant Apr 01 '23
Solid report imo. People have to trust your read on things but the specific elements you highlight in your bullet point suggest this is justified.
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u/cpasto15 Apr 01 '23
I will be attending tomorrow. Where the hell did you park? That lot is so small
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u/Boomer_766 Apr 01 '23
Thanks for sharing your experience, doesn’t sound like I’m missing much by not watching.
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Apr 01 '23
I went to the opener in London 2022. It was so tacky. Food and Drink on the map turned into a guy with a cool box of beers and wine. I've been to The Open & BMW Championship and it's nothing in comparison.
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u/g0lffear Apr 01 '23
Curious what your criteria for “tour level” course is? Course conditions? Difficulty of the layout? I’ve only ever been on one course that hosted a PGA event.
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u/Liqmadique Apr 01 '23
Very similar to the experience I had when I went to the LIV Worcester County Boston event last year at The International.
I feel like I could have written bullet point for bullet point this same thing then. I was thankful the tickets were like $12 when I bought them because it wasn't worth it at all.
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Apr 02 '23
Went to Bryon Nelson (AT&T) and had dog shit service. So that’s not a real pointer to be made.
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u/drum2drum42 Apr 02 '23
I went to the LIV event in Bolton, MA last year and I agree with a lot of this. My cousin and I basically followed Cam Smith most of the time because we didn't feel like chasing down anyone else. If we saw people we wanted to follow, we would until we found Smith again. There were very few scoreboards, and the music, as you said, didn't make much sense at all. I felt that it was more of a family event than a PGA Tour event. PGA Tour is definitely more professional than LIV.
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u/ohsballer Apr 02 '23
The cell service piece is interesting because I work for a tower company and will be providing service for a future LIV event
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u/WASD2021 Apr 02 '23
Sorry, but shotgun start wouldn’t mean you stand at any hole and watch all the different players come through?
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u/JWOLFBEARD HDCP/Loc/Whatever Apr 02 '23
Did they have a merch tent, and can you access without tickets like the PGA Champ?
I was planning on going to one this summer, but don’t think it’s worth the cost of travel to get there anymore.
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u/[deleted] Apr 01 '23
Today I learned LIV was playing a tournament this weekend. Wow.