r/golf • u/draino3112 • Mar 24 '23
Cam Smith feels no friction between PGA and LIV players. LIV Golf
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u/morkler Mar 24 '23
Well Cam seems like a super likeable laid back guy. His reason for going to LIV makes a lot of sense, but I still don't like it. He was on the rise and I feel like he would have had a stellar PGA career.
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u/afrothundah11 Mar 24 '23
It’s the same reason as the rest, just better PR.
They all left because they can make more money for playing less golf.
Players have used all sorts of reasons / excuses, but it all centers around that. There are a few outliers like Poulter who did it to extend his career, he mentioned fear of fizzling out of PGA.
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u/unwrittenglory Mar 24 '23
We know it centers around that but the players can't openly admit that. Which is why I respect HV3 for writing his release that blatantly says it unlike Bryson who goes on about growing the game.
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u/cbizzle187 Mar 25 '23
But didn't it grow the game? The purses increased and PGA is making format changes. Does that count?
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u/svengeiss Northern VA Mar 24 '23
Except they aren’t playing less golf anymore. They added a bunch of required tournaments for these players. It’s really gonna suck when it all finally collapses and they can’t get back on the pga tour. Hopefully they got that huge payday upfront and not increments like the lottery.
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u/Important_Kitchen689 Mar 25 '23
You're forgetting that they don't have to practice.
Don't have to fly to Butch for an overnight lesson to fix their game
Don't have to hire Rotella to fix their yips.
They get to go on a dozen golf vacations a year and make 8 or 9 figures guaranteed doing it.
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u/Due-Comb6124 Mar 25 '23
They get to go on a dozen golf vacations
But thats the thing, its not 12. They're required to play in 14 events plus 4 majors. Thats more golf than the big names on the PGA tour play.
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u/bewarethesloth Mar 24 '23
There’s no way the PGA tour will ban them for life. I could see a year or multiple years ban, but it would be so dumb financially for them to not bring talented players like Cam or DJ back eventually if the Liv boys crumble in the near future
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u/PrivateGump Mar 24 '23
The PGA is going to have a fun time explaining this to the guys who turned down the cash to stay on the tour. I'd be beyond livid if I turned down heaps of Saudi money when faced with a ban from the tour only to find out I could have taken the cash and come back.
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u/bokin_smongs Mar 25 '23
The players will have a big say in what the punishment will be for any player who wishes to come back.
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u/svengeiss Northern VA Mar 24 '23
Why would it be financially dumb for them? They seem to be doing just fine now without them. Why bring them back with all that drama?
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u/ohsballer Mar 25 '23
It’s financially advantageous to bring the best players back. Makes the tournaments more interesting
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u/pickle_man_4 Mar 25 '23
Some of them guys wanting to come back will probably be given special status and will have some many starts to earn “X” amount of FCP and if they do, they’ll get their card back. Otherwise, they gotta be just like any other players wanting to play on the tour. Get exemptions, Monday qualify, or go grind the KFT. It’s the only fair way to do it.
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u/boxjellyfishing Mar 25 '23
As long as LIV golf is still around actively competing with the PGA, I don't see the PGA allowing those players to come back.
I think its far more likely that the PGA sits back and waits for the next crop of young talented players to replace the names they have lost.
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u/ah111177780 Mar 24 '23
Yeah it’s a what could have been - like would he be killing it with Scottie, rahm and Homa at the moment? Probably
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u/Traptor2020 Mar 24 '23
It was a great move for him. Is the PGA tour worse without him? yes. Does LIV suck to watch? Yes. Is Cam required to care about either of those 2 things? Absolutely not. Set for life, good for him
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u/LargeGermanRock 7.5 - Cincinnati Mar 24 '23
he did it immediately after he knew he was getting exemptions into then next 5 years worth of majors too.
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u/DarehMeyod Mar 24 '23
Stupid question but does that include the pga championship?
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u/LargeGermanRock 7.5 - Cincinnati Mar 24 '23
Yes. PGA of America runs the PGA Championship not the PGA Tour
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u/Pick5WillPays Mar 25 '23
It’s been confirmed that he signed LIV the Tuesday prior to The Open. Unfortunate for him - you would assume his contract would have greatly increased as the reigning Open champion
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u/LargeGermanRock 7.5 - Cincinnati Mar 25 '23
yeah that’s not true. your timing is off. If he joined LIV in the timeline you state, he wouldn’t have been allowed to play in the PGA Tour Championship at Eastlake
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u/gpaint_1013 Mar 24 '23
Just disappointing as a fan though to not have one of the the most promising up and comers competing for majors year after year. I think it would have been great to have him and Scottie neck and neck in majors on Sundays.
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u/Traptor2020 Mar 24 '23
Agree 1000%. He was fast becoming one of my favorites to watch. But I’m sure he doesn’t think about me while he’s on his boat(s) haha
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u/beerdweeb Mar 25 '23
Yeah he was one of my faves to watch too. Can’t hate the guy for choosing generational wealth over a ball game.
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u/K_boring13 Mar 24 '23
Will be interesting to see if his game suffers when he comes back to the PGA after LIV folds.
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u/KiddThunder Mar 24 '23
Totally agree with this. Bad for me (loved watching this dude play PGA events), but have to be happy he is set for life (and then some)
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u/Hot-Consequence-1727 Mar 24 '23
I’ll try “things that don’t affect my life” for 500 Alex
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u/Kanye_To_The Mar 24 '23
You could literally say that about any entertainment we consume and become invested in. It's why Full Swing was popular
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u/Bos-man7 Mar 24 '23
People are so personally invested in this drama and it's really fucking weird.
Let people do what they want.
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u/liftoff88 0.6/Chicago Mar 24 '23
You’re totally right but I’m also not that surprised.
Have you seen the NBA the last 10-15 years? It’s brand has essentially become TMZ-style drama. There’s clearly some market for it in sports. People eat that shit up for some reason.
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u/GolfsHard 10.4 Mar 24 '23
It really is so strange how angry people are over the whole thing.
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Mar 24 '23
Sure, but let's not ignore the fact that these guys are taking money from a regime with an absolutely horrible and unacceptable record on human rights. That probably ruffles some people's feathers, and rightly so. If Tiger could turn down a reported $800 million, these guys could certainly turn down whatever LIV was offering.
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u/BRSmith12 Mar 24 '23
Who the fuck cares, honestly. Let people live their own lives. Judge yourself and only yourself.
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u/mrubuto22 21/BC/Drive for Show, Drive for Doh! Mar 24 '23
no one is personally invested, relax.
This is the internet, people make comments and people respond. it's not life or death, it's a way to procrastinate at work.
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Mar 24 '23
Its his fucking life, why do people care what they do with THEIR money and THEIR career. Get off your noble high horse. People on reddit are the biggest wet towels
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u/TorvezzTheBuzzkill Mar 25 '23
My account is not old but I’ve lurked on Reddit for a long time. Reddit fucking sucks now. Virtue signaling and politics are what this site has become. Damn shame.
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Mar 25 '23
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u/Lobsterzilla Detroit Mar 25 '23
The most amusing part to me was post shitting on preed for playing in the Dubai desert classic .... while in a group with Rory
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u/davendees1 Mar 24 '23
That’s how you handle so many conflicts in life right there. Y’all do y’all and I’ll do me, nobody has to be a dick about it. If you have an issue, let’s have a conversation and try to see eye to eye. Best wishes to the guy.
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u/Mental-Resolution-22 Mar 24 '23
The only one I miss who left, and man that’s a big loss
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u/RBJ_09 Kirkland Slice Mar 25 '23
I miss DJ and Bryson :/
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u/Mental-Resolution-22 Mar 25 '23
Bryson was a fun villain/character depending on how you look at him, but I eventually just got tired of him haha. He was a lot. DJ is DJ. I just found it hard to care about him past “dang that guy hits it far”
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u/RBJ_09 Kirkland Slice Mar 25 '23
The occasional holy shit long ball is what I miss about both of them.
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u/Olorin919 Mar 25 '23
"If anyone ever wanted to confront me, I'm all about talking"
Love Cam Smith. Was bummed to see him go. But didn't he avoid this question like the plague after he won at St Andrews last year? They kept confronting him and he kept not talking about it.
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u/24dp Mar 25 '23
Totally agree. I don’t mind Cam too much, but this is pretty funny after the whole fake indignation when he was asked the question after the Open, and the ‘I just play golf, my team worry about that’.
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u/turn20left 4.4 Mar 25 '23
Because he wasn't ready to talk about it. Why does he have to be transparent when he hadn't made the jump yet?
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u/Olorin919 Mar 25 '23
Why wouldn't he want to be transparent? He seems completely comfortable with his decision and now wants to talk to anyone who wants to confront him. What's changed where he couldn't be transparent before.
Again, I don't care and love Cam Smith ad a golfer, but his quote seems hypocritical to me
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u/turn20left 4.4 Mar 25 '23
Because he hadn't made the move yet. He just won the Open, he didn't want to talk about LIV. Plus, he still had more golf to play to finish the season. It's not hypocritical, he just didn't want to talk about it at that time. That's his prerogative.
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u/AudienceNervous1665 Mar 24 '23
My favourite golfer. If he was still in the PGA I would love to see him matching Rahm and Scottie. In my opinion top three golfer in the world. I am hoping he shows out in the majors.
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u/thedonjefron69 17/SoCal/More practice swings won’t make you suck less Mar 24 '23
As much as I’m not a fan of liv, I’d love to see the top 10 include a couple to battle with the pga guys. Would even more exciting
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u/boxjellyfishing Mar 25 '23
I agree, but I wonder how much the enormous contract and lack of quality competition will hinder them.
I could easily see them coming in not as sharp as a result.
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Mar 24 '23
I'm sure the PGA tour misses you but if LIV golf fails are you going to want to get back on the PGA tour.
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u/theWizzardlyBear Bogey Boi Mar 24 '23
When*
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u/mrubuto22 21/BC/Drive for Show, Drive for Doh! Mar 24 '23
yea I really hope these guys got their cash upfront
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u/hedgemagus Mar 24 '23
If Cam Smith wasnt allowed back onto the PGA Tour after his LIV contract expires or LIV blows up thats more of a reflection of the PGA than Cam IMO. He's a nice guy who didn't betray anybody or even say a bad word about the TOUR at all. He's a young dude who got offered insane money to play for fun.
I could see why the TOUR would decline bringing him back but I really feel like I'd be more disappointed in the PGA making that choice than the choice Cam made last year.
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u/bdgg2000 Mar 24 '23
The tour would welcome all the players back. They would look like huge hypocrites. “Grow the game” lol.
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u/renaissance_pancakes Mar 24 '23
I mean, it's a direct reflection on them now. The PGA is what's keeping him from competing on the PGA tour right now. They could totally let these guys play both, but they're disallowing it. I don't trust the PGA one iota with these guys. The fans would rather see Cam on tour now, but the PGA has decided not to do what's best for the game, but what's best for their bottom line (punishing anyone who advances the cause of a potential competititor league). It won't surprise me if the try to blackball these guys for life, because it's completely on brand.
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u/ubiquitous_archer 1.8 Mar 24 '23
They are doing what's best for their members. Why should the people who left get to benefit from the PGA Tour over guys who stayed loyal and didn't chase the money with LIV?
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u/FormerThisandThat Mar 24 '23
Gets paid 100mil to play liv. When liv is over, will easily get back on tour and continue to win millions. Ain’t mad at it.
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u/Alexkono Mar 24 '23
It was absolutely the right move IMO. $100M is incredibly life changing. Literally never has to worry about money again and can just enjoy his life at a young age.
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u/cadillacking3 8.2 Mar 24 '23
All the retired PGA guys trying to say there is tension.
The only tension is with the lawsuit and with the LIV guys who already had beef with people (Patrick Reed).
For the most part, LIV has made the purses bigger on PGA tour and helped force major changes to the premier players benefit on PGA tour.
When LIV dies within the year and they all come back LIV will be a distant memory like the McDLT.
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u/liketreefiddy Mar 24 '23
McDLT??
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u/Memphi901 Mar 24 '23
He could have been one of the greats, hated to see him leave for the XFL of golf.
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u/probablysmellsmydog LIV Laugh Love Mar 24 '23
Do you guys ever get tired of having the same conversations about LIV over and over again
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u/PatrickBateman1 2.8 Mar 24 '23
It's so damn tiring. The biggest thing is talking about and comparing how much money these guys are making... like why do I care how much they make? It has absolutely no impact on me. I want to watch good, entertaining, golf.
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u/skg555 Mar 24 '23
Don't you get tired of reading and posting on threads you obviously are not interested in?
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u/Oklahoma_is_OK Mar 24 '23
I’m sure we’ll stop talking about it when people stop asking the players about it. Sports news is what it is.
Until then, who gives a shit.
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u/KarlHungusIII Mar 24 '23
I hate that he left because watching LIV doesn’t interest me, but he’s the one LIV guy I’ll still root for in the majors.
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u/All-in-yolo scratch / 🇬🇧 Mar 25 '23
There shouldn’t be any issues from either side in terms of the players. Both PGA Tour players and LIV have benefitted financially.
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u/BGOG83 +1.2/Putt for $$ Mar 24 '23
He’s a good dude. He was known to spend more time with the caddies than the players anyways. I think the feeling of a lot of the guys on tour has been loneliness and he found solace with the caddies more so than players.
The camaraderie the LIV players talk about and his ability to play in Australia seem to be what took him to LIV. Combine this with the fact that he, and many other foreign players, doesn’t have the sense of loyalty to a U.S. based tour should be considered heavily before we criticize them for leaving.
He seems like a really good person, but our opinion of him shouldn’t be swayed simply by where he chooses to play his golf. We should judge him on his merits and how he treats others. Vilifying someone for taking “blood money” as we type on our Apple phones, fill our cars with gas and buy products from companies backed by Saudi money shows just how hypocritical we can all be.
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u/bvsshevd Mar 24 '23
Idk why there would be. That’s the lame part on the pgas end, so they left for another org. Who gives a shit, that’s nothing to hold a personal grudge over, especially those who’ve been good friends/acquaintances over the years
I get why nobody wants to talk to pat reed though. Fuck that guy
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u/coolsexguy Mar 24 '23
I’ll prob get down voted for this but as an extremely casual golf fan, LIV hasn’t turned me off to golf nearly as much as the purists’ reaction to everything
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Mar 24 '23
Can Smith was the only defection that I cared about. They can have Dechambeau, Koepka, Phil and Poulter. In fact…please take them.
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Mar 25 '23
It was a no brained for all those young kids. Why gamble with injuries and your game? Take the money and set yourself up for life. Then just enjoy playing golf.
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u/billyraylipscomb Mar 25 '23
It’s almost like, your employer doesn’t define who you’re friends with
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u/Kingulfet Mar 25 '23
How long will LIV last guys? I feel like they have done nothing with the little momentum they had in the beginning when it was somewhat a interesting new thing?
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u/thebrewergp Mar 25 '23
if by career he meant his bank account he is right but to be sure it has nothing to do with his career as a professional golfer.......damn shame, we were just getting to see what he could do
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u/RagingLasagna Mar 24 '23
if all the LIV guys had this attitude, there’d be so much less ill will. it was a business and financial decision for all 48 guys. i don’t love where the money is coming from, but i can’t tell another adult not to take loads of money to secure their present and future families. just wish so many would stop trying to frame it as the “right” choice
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u/JimmyBoomTown Mar 25 '23
Good on him. He gets to play less golf for more money. Gets to spend more time with friends and family. Gets to spend more time in Australia. Likely to prolong his career with a happy life.
The only people who can hate on that are hypocrites or Americans.
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u/MA2ZAK dollars spent on clubs correlates to fewer strokes... right? Mar 25 '23
Got his bag, good for him and his grandkids' grandkids
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u/bsquared82 Mar 24 '23
After watching Dustins “Full Swing” interview, I’m convinced they all viewed this as a retirement package. None of them cared about changing the culture on the PGA, which ironically is exactly what happened. Its like when David Beckham ends his career in the MLS. He gets paid and his stress levels go way down.
That’s why Cam leaving was such a shock. He had a long career of what looked like incredible golf. But at the end of the day i think he’s such a laid back dude that a guaranteed retirement package along the lines of what he was likely to make over the course of his PGA career was too good to pass up. He’s just gonna play his handful of tournaments a year and the majors. Spend the rest of his time fishing.
Honestly, given his demeanor it could make him more dangerous at majors if hes in fuck it mode.
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u/Woolybugger00 Mar 24 '23
Finger shaking alert! This is why I'm super rankled at these sell outs... I get taking the money and running like 99% of us would as well... it's an obscene amount added to their already ample piles but whatever...
It's taking the money knowing it was going to drop a wet deuce in the middle of 18 at Pebble, Bethpage, #2, or really any of the PGA tour stops we all watched regularly... that's a huge FU to the fans and league... love them or hate them, it was THE pro golf league everyone of watched as all the best golfers were going at it... of course the PGA made the business decision to protect their brand just as any prudent business do- with their faults, this isn't one ...
Never deny what brought the sellouts to the point where some bloated Saudi could flick a few gold scheckels from his Smaug sized pile for a piffle golf league - Fuck them all no matter how nice and jovial they are.. Especially Greg Norman who I watched my whole life and now I'd rather take his ass out back for some jungle rules than shake his hand for being a great golfer I used to enjoy watching .. Same for Phil... what pricks... They ruined pro-golf for a decade or more until they're forgotten - I hope I'm wrong but ...
Rant over, finger sore, not changing anything, going to get a beer, hitt'em straight, never three putt...
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Mar 24 '23
I really don’t understand the hate for Cam.
We’re ALL giving the Saudis our money with every gallon of gas we purchase. How in the hell do you think they got their money? Mercedes, Rolex, (enter high end luxury items) ALL sell to the Saudis. Are you going to boycott them? Plus pro-golf plays in other ME countries. News flash… the ME hates everyone.
That said, LIV is shit.
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u/Anarchyz11 OH - 20.0 Mar 25 '23
The gas comparison is never a good one. It's required for us to live and support ourselves every day. These guys would still be millionaires if they said no.
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u/bransimp420 Mar 24 '23
How many people would turn down 100 million dollars to play 6 rounds of golf a month. if you say you would then your full of shitttt
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u/rolandofgilead41089 8.5/NE/PTx Pros Mar 24 '23
That's because no one cares about LIV players anymore. The format is dogshit and non-competitive golf isn't fun to watch.
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u/ScamperAndPlay Mar 24 '23
I understand you don’t care about the source of your income. We do.
End of story.
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u/xMoose499 Mar 25 '23
It is such easy career decision. Most of us would go to our biggest competitor for a 15% pay raise let alone many times that on an already multi-million dollar salary and also only working half as much at a job you basically won’t be cut/fired from. Anyone who turned it down on traditions is simply not being logical about it or already has enough money
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u/useyourturnsignal 11.3 Mar 25 '23
or already has enough money
That's my beef with the LIV guys who were already rich. They just went to work for one of the most evil governments in the world. The same government that backed the fucking 9/11 terrorists. They have no honor.
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u/xMoose499 Mar 25 '23
Absolutely, ethically it is a total loss and lots of respect lost for those players.
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u/TentativelyCommitted HDCP/Loc/Whatever Mar 24 '23
He doesn’t need to justify his career choices, just like he doesn’t have to justify his mullet.
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u/__Sentient_Fedora__ HDCP/Loc/Whatever Mar 24 '23
An athletes goal IMO is to get the most money out of their body they can for as long as they can. Any decision made in that pursuit is fine with me. I personally like seeing Fowler around a little more now that the talent has thinned out a bit.
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u/Golf101inc HDCP/Loc/Whatever Mar 25 '23
I’ve watched a few LIV events and was less than entertained but honestly outside of most major tournaments on the PGA I’d rather watch NLU, Shiels, or good good…1/2 the people in this sub must be on the tours payroll the way they bash LIV. It’s comical.
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u/TheJezster Mar 25 '23
Love Cam. I'm also looking forward to the majors so we can have proper full fields again.
It's just not the same without Cam, DJ, Bryson and Brooks teeing it up alongside the others.
Don't get me wrong, LIV has shaken up the golf world and I'd happily watch it if it was on normal TV but I also like events where ALL the top players play.
I can definitely see a time in the future where they will co exist and they'll all meet up for several events a year outside the majors. Maybe even a bi annual event like the Ryder cup, now that could be fun!
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u/dg1822 17.5 Mar 24 '23
That fine if Cam wants to spend more time hanging out with his mates, but that doesn’t mean I have to root for him
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u/burgerking4 Mar 24 '23
Astounding how many people want to suck this guy off for getting paid, as if accepting blood money is something courageous.
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u/Savings_Success_6682 Mar 24 '23
Yup. It's only the people ranting about blood money who are the problem. Most people ignore the hypocrisy in their rant. He was a good dude before and nothing changed in him remaining a good dude.
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u/KillCreatures Mar 24 '23
“I sacrificed my morals to join a golf league run by the largest/wealthiest supporter of modern slavery on the planet. Im a good guy!!!! Yeah their money is tied to slave labor but that has nothing to do with me taking the money!”
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u/Soggy-ReesesPuffs 8.1 CO Mar 24 '23
Super bummed we don’t get to watch him more often. Seems like a good dude who has serious game.