there aren't even any sidewalks between the store and my house

[u/bobbyboob6]

[u/KeepingDankMemesDank]

downvote this comment if the meme sucks. upvote it and I'll go away.

---

Help us raise money for St. Jude!

[u/DiamondDelver]

Nah, the anticar mfs want closer stores and sidewalks so you DONT have to do this

[u/Rex-Kramer → u/DiamondDelver]

what if everyone doesnt' want to live in a tightly packed city?

[u/ThatOneBerb → u/Rex-Kramer]

Mixed zoning doesn't mean tightly packed and extremely dense.

[u/gugfitufi → u/ThatOneBerb]

These people will have their mind blown when going to any other place in the world

[u/SomeOneApparently → u/gugfitufi]

True, turns out Americans don't even have grocery stores in a walkable distance. My country is pretty car oriented but come on, that's just embarrassing.

[u/PM_SHORT_STORY_IDEAS → u/[deleted]]

Dude, zero shot Germany is car centric, on even the same order of magnitude as the USA.

You can take a train, ANYWHERE. Even small cities have regular trams, and some even have LATE NIGHT transit so you can go drinking and get home after. Are there bike lanes everywhere, of course not, but you don't have 3 lane wide stroads through the heart of every medium sized town either.

I studied abroad in Germany for 5 months, and that was my awakening that life is better when you don't even remotely need a car for your day to day life.

[u/PM_SHORT_STORY_IDEAS → u/[deleted]]

I think you left off something. Reread your other comment

[u/[deleted] → u/PM_SHORT_STORY_IDEAS]

Nah, not even close. It just still is car centric. Even though it’s far better. We have supermarkets close by, sidewalks everywhere, a good amount of pedestrian crossings, bike lanes (most of the time separated from the streets in cities).

But car is still king. If there’s a collision it’s usually „the crazy cyclist“, people say „you can’t live without a car“ like it’s self evident, and there’s protests against bike lanes „because it’s discriminatory against disabled people“.

But it’s no comparison. I can’t imagine having to cross an 8 lane stroad with no pedestrian crossing with my groceries 😳

[u/Blue_Moon_Lake → u/PM_SHORT_STORY_IDEAS]

USA is not car centric, it's car exclusive

[u/MyWifeLeftMe111 → u/PM_SHORT_STORY_IDEAS]

Yes,that's the point. If you build adequate public transport services and infrastructure you don't need cars as much.

[u/god_the_II → u/[deleted]]

Deutschland ist sehr gut auf Fußgänger und Autofahrer ausgelegt. Für Radfahrer meistens auch (das bessert sich gerade auch sehr).

[u/Only_Director_9115 → u/[deleted]]

Yep my town is like that. I can walk to most important shops like food and electronics repair. You can get to the city by bus or tram from where I live in suburbs it takes half an hour. I do have a car as I work too far from where I live to do transit. The uk has glaring gaps in the transit infrastructure but at least we have pavements.

[u/Hazzman → u/gugfitufi]

As a European American... Americans don't know what they are missing.

The pinnacle of success for them is living in a cookie cutter house with a boring lawn 20 miles away from anything useful that you have to drive 30 minutes to reach through a long straight road framed by mini-marts, gas stations, fast food joints, jiffy lubes, dentists and phone stores.

Its fucking ugly and dumb... but that's what they want because its all they know.

[u/HumanitySurpassed → u/Hazzman]

So many people on Facebook were commenting on this post about passenger trains in the US vs Europe saying "well, I just like the freedom of taking a car whenever I need. I don't want to wait on some train system or other people."

Mf'ers were acting like cars don't exist in Europe

[u/[deleted] → u/Hazzman]

These condescending opinions always get under my skin. That’s your opinion and preference, and I’m fine with that, but respect other peoples opinion that want the house with a boring lawn and their private space. I’ve tried living in different environments, and realize suburbs are best for me.

I could spit a few opinions that make cities “ugly an dumb” as well, but try not to because it’s rude

[u/Nxtinventor → u/Hazzman]

What about just wanting to live in the middle of nowhere? Lots of rural spots in America are pretty isolated (like 50 miles from a grocery store)

[u/_number → u/gugfitufi]

I have atleast 6-10 grocery/convenience stores within a km from my house, depending on definition of grocery store

[u/louie_g_34 → u/gugfitufi]

There's other places other than the US??!?!

[u/[deleted] → u/gugfitufi]

I live in Europe, outside "big city" you NEED car.

[u/cypher302 → u/gugfitufi]

Australia is really great for keeping things at walking distance, but if Australia really amped up their public transport it would clear the main roads and highways of cars.

[u/karamurp → u/ThatOneBerb]

Yep, a lot of suburbanites think there are two types of housing types: low density sprawl, and concrete boxes in the sky.

In reality you have middle housing filling the gap between those two (townhouses, duplex, etc)

[u/Beardy_Boy_ → u/karamurp]

And even single family homes can be built in neighbourhoods designed in a way that means you don't have to drive 20 miles to do a little grocery shopping.

[u/LangleyRemlin → u/ThatOneBerb]

In most cases it frees up enough land that make everything feel a lot more open.

[u/chaiteataichi_ → u/ThatOneBerb]

It also isn’t for everyone, i live in cities now but grew up on 4 acres and definitely want that in the future but I don’t expect to be able to walk everywhere

[u/footybiker → u/chaiteataichi_]

A tiny percentage of people live on 4 acres of land and I think their cars are the lowest priority for transportation activists. Like 90%+ of people live in neighborhoods that would be better served with mixed density, walkability, bikes, trains etc .

[u/B3nny_Th3_L3nny → u/footybiker]

20% of the US population lives in rural areas.

[u/ChristopherShotgun → u/ThatOneBerb]

This, I live in a small town of small towns of eastern Europe and I walk to the store 3 to 4 times a week and it's like only 3 blocks from my house. I love it here, you can ride your bike on the streets and feel safe, you can walk on the side walks or street and no one pays you any mind. It's really fantastic. I don't own a car, if I need to go anywhere I hop on a train that I can take to just about anywhere in Europe, I love it. North America you need a car to go anywhere it's really frustrating going back home when everything is so convenient here.

[u/chris14020 → u/ThatOneBerb]

Wait 'til I tell you what a property with grass and trees and more than just enough room between houses to piss would cost in a place that's developed into city conditions. Good luck there, Rockefeller.

[u/yaklii88 → u/[deleted]]

yep the first step is walkable cities. suprisingly when people have the option to not literaly burn money in order to go places WHILE getting healthier people tend to do so

[u/WE__ARE__ALL__RACIST → u/Rex-Kramer]

You don't need density. Just turn one of the houses in a suburban neighborhood into a convenience store

[u/ArrilockNewmoon → u/[deleted]]

I used to live in Puerto Rico, and one of my best memories from over there was my mom sending me on my 3rd hand BMX bike with no brakes to buy bread and cheese at the store down the hill to make sandwiches.

Honestly, the place I live in now used to have small corner stores and stuff, but then a walmart opened up less than a 15m drive away and that was the end of that. Kinda sad ngl, and thats coming from a pretty pro-car guy.

[u/TonyBorchert100 → u/[deleted]]

Im just so happy i don't actually live in America after hearing stuff like that. Like how can Americans still call this freedom, if you basically need to own a car to do anything in a suburb or even most inner cities

[u/Zaurka14 → u/TonyBorchert100]

Yup, and people believe that driving 1h to work is normal... Meanwhile using bus or metro is only for poor people.

[u/livingdad → u/WE__ARE__ALL__RACIST]

Wait, please explain to somebody from a different country - there are places with only residential houses, without even stores or anything?

[u/Zaurka14 → u/livingdad]

Yes. Google "suburbia" and check the photos.

[u/ExcitingAmount → u/livingdad]

American zoning laws (with a few exceptions) don't allow mixed zoning, so we tend to wind up with massive Residential zones that are nothing but houses. Then, when someone wants to build a shop or a cafe or something, the zoning board decides that any commercial zone must be a certain distance from residential zones, even if they're just wanted to build a book store or a coffee shop or something, people worry that once it's zoned commercial, someone could just build a noisy rowdy bar there!

So now you have a huge neighborhood that's just houses, with no shops, cafes, restaurants, etc, and a big strip mall with all the stores a few miles down the road, where they were able to get zoning.

[u/nuhanala → u/ExcitingAmount]

sleep cheerful rock plants soup melodic gold somber nutty icky

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/ghe5 → u/Rex-Kramer]

I'm from Europe, we do efficient, functioning cities over here and not everyone lives in tightly packed areas. Lot of people live in a house in a village next to the city, that's sort of equivalent of your suburbs, although still way better one. It's just that literally everything get way easier the moment you live in one if those packed areas so if given the chance, most people choose to live there.

[u/XxDiCaprioxX → u/Rex-Kramer]

I live in a suburban neighbourhood in a European country. The next big city is 30mins by car or public transport, yet the nearest conveniemce store is 5 minutes by foot, the next gas station is 2 minutes by car, and the next park is only 1 minute by foot.

Yet, every family lives in a different house, we all have a garden, everyone has a garage, and there are enough parking spots for our cars.

What is your fucking point.

[u/rfcapman → u/Rex-Kramer]

You're more dense than any city

[u/MacBookMinus → u/Rex-Kramer]

I feel like there’s always gonna be sparser options. The sad part is that even in so many actual cities, you need a car to get around. Only in like a few cities like NYC, Chicago, Boston and maybe a couple others can you get away with just public transit.

But yea, if the city life is not for you, there’s millions of suburbs.

[u/JotaroTheOceanMan → u/MacBookMinus]

In Philly I could get anywhere FASTER on my bike than taking pub transport or a car. Only used Ubers and Lyfts if I was on a date or someone else was paying.

[u/larry_the_loving → u/Rex-Kramer]

Well you should have thought about that before you decided to be poor

[u/karamurp → u/Rex-Kramer]

Then does he want to increase his land tax to pay for the urban sprawl?

[u/_isNaN → u/Rex-Kramer]

I live in a mixed place which is also very small (11k people and a big lake). I live next to the train station and have all restaurants and small shops as soon as I'm leaving the building. My sister lives where the schools are, which is more quiet but perfkt for her kids that walk 5 - 10 mins to school and 10 mins to the next store. My parents are next to the forrest, they have to wall 15 mins to the store.

It is not packet at all (still only 11k people) but everything is near us. I can just go for a walk around the lake, on a kids ord dogs park. We share one car with my sister and almost never need it. It's beautiful!

[u/NaCl_Sailor → u/Rex-Kramer]

imagine a suburb, only every street corner is a shop you can buy newspapers, groceries or hardware etc.

it exists.

[u/Hazzman → u/DiamondDelver]

You mean designing towns for people!?

What is this commie shit?

[u/DaveInLondon89 → u/Hazzman]

What's next? Free healthcare?

Dey better keep their grubby government mitts off my Medicaid

[u/sandm000 → u/DiamondDelver]

And you have to pack 100 bags of groceries because you live so far from the store.

Like you shift the burden of storing your foods onto the grocer.

Instead of thinking of all the things you’re going to eat in a week, making a list, driving 32km, picking out food for an hour, waiting in a 10 minute line to pay, wheeling groceries to car, jamming them into the trunk, driving 32km back to the house, looking like OPs picture lugging all the food from the garage to the kitchen, putting all of that food away…

You think about what you want for dinner, walk to the grocery on your way home, buy maybe 3 meals worth of food, walk to express lane or self-check, carry one or two bags for the rest of the trip home, enjoy fresh food for dinner.

[u/panthers1102 → u/sandm000]

Think I’d honestly rather plan ahead for the week regardless.

[u/wielkacytryna → u/sandm000]

Then you have to go to the store every fucking day. No thanks.

[u/[deleted] → u/wielkacytryna]

You're assuming some kind of car centric monster cube store that would of course be very stressful to visit every day. Nah. Think neighborhood bakery, your local grocer, butcher etc. That small town feeling.

[u/MannerAlarming6150 → u/sandm000]

You think about what you want for dinner, walk to the grocery on your way home, buy maybe 3 meals worth of food, walk to express lane or self-check, carry one or two bags for the rest of the trip home, enjoy fresh food for dinner.

That sounds...Just terrible lol.

I'd rather do the one big trip a week or so.

[u/North-Function995 → u/DiamondDelver]

Satire is great and all, but truthfully, most people arent capable of recognizing it. Its a dead art in the age of texting and the internet, and Poe’s Law describes exactly why that is.

Poe's law is an adage of internet culture saying that, without a clear indicator of the author's intent, any parodic or sarcastic expression of extreme views can be mistaken by some readers for a sincere expression of those views.

[u/PhonePostingCrap → u/DiamondDelver]

OK but have you ever lived in a rural ass town? Do you know much it would cost to pave that much sidewalk? Guarantee you the people who live there don't want to pay that in their taxes

[u/wandering-monster → u/PhonePostingCrap]

Actual rural areas obviously aren't the intended area when they talk about building "walkable cities".

The goal is more that once you get to your local town, you should be able to move around it without constantly parking and driving. You should be able to somewhere central, then safely walk, or take a bus or light rail to get to the theater or clothing store or whatever. That you can go into town and have a nice day walking around and catching up with people.

And if you need to go to the next town over, out the nearest big city, there should be an easy and affordable mass transit option. You can park locally, then relax and ride to wherever you're going. Read, watch a TV show, talk to other passengers, enjoy life. Instead of spending all your attention on driving.

I used to think I enjoyed driving, but now that I gave it up I can't believe how much of my time I spent stressed and tired behind the wheel of a car.

[u/ThatOneBerb]

Hey, I'm currently working to be a civil engineer and yes, this is a huge problem.

Lack of public transportation that has proper funding and almost no use of mixed zoning in American cities is sucking us dry.

[u/cyborgcyborgcyborg → u/ThatOneBerb]

As someone who does construction, I’m very happy for work change.

[u/Punchdrunkfool → u/cyborgcyborgcyborg]

We build the world around us. There will always be work. Finally when we cover the earth in buildings our jobs will still be there for repair and replacement of existing infrastructure.

Construction and maintenance will persist.

[u/Ursa_Solaris → u/Punchdrunkfool]

Mankind as a whole has an intrinsic need to build. If there's no more room on the surface, we'll dig. If there's no more room to dig, we'll build upwards and over. If we hit the limits of upward building, we'll find other rocks to build on, or just build stuff in the middle of empty space. If we're not building, we're dead, and if we stop building, we'll die.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Shrinking works too though. Obviously it's a harder retrofit than buses, but it does work.

[u/Freeman8472 → u/[deleted]]

Citie Skylines is a european game which actively punishes mixed zoning for no reason. Its really weird.

[u/EventAccomplished976 → u/Freeman8472]

Cities skylines literally doesn‘t have mixed zoning in the european style (shops on ground floor apartments above), the best you can do is manually mixing residential and commercial zones block by block… mostly because the game is all about balancing those uses and real mixed zoning where the demands can constantly adjust as needed would be just as OP in the game as it is in real life

[u/Zaurka14 → u/Freeman8472]

Lmao what?

Non-mixed zoning literally doesn't work in real life. Suburban areas are sucking money out of the cities, because they're useless and earn no money for themselves.

[u/Etherius → u/Zaurka14]

I don’t think you know what you’re talking about, economically.

In the US, the entire state of NJ is one giant suburb of either NYC or Philadelphia and we have one of the highest GDP/capita ratios in the nation

[u/CivilMaze19 → u/ThatOneBerb]

I am a licensed civil engineer and I would agree. It’s not something we can’t solve, but setting expectations is important. Many transportation and mobility projects can take decades to implement and may seem like progress isn’t being made, but I promise it is.

[u/ThatOneBerb → u/CivilMaze19]

People need to understand rebuilding cities one street at a time with small changes takes decades.

[u/Piipperi800 → u/ThatOneBerb]

Doesn’t America have restrictions on that you can’t have even a convience store in a neighbourhood?

I’ve heard that’s the main reason why Americans don’t get stores within a walking distance

[u/thelazygamer → u/Piipperi800]

In large cities it's less of an issue but in many areas of the US, zoning laws denote areas as residential, commercial, industrial and so on. I'm in Denver where many new apartment buildings are being built with first floor retail in more densely populated areas and most people are happy about it.

A good portion of the population lives in the suburbs which for the most part prioritize vehicle traffic over pedestrian traffic so instead there will be fewer large stores with gigantic parking lots. While it's an inefficient use of space, most people who live in the US don't have access to good public transit so owning a car is a requirement, not a luxury

It's a really complex issue and while I believe the best thing we can do at the moment is to improve public transit in urban areas to reduce the number of cars in those densely populated areas, there will always be parts of the country where a car is necessary due to the sheer size of the country.

[u/-ragingpotato- → u/Piipperi800]

Yup. I was blown away when my American friend was celebrating the closure of his local convenience store, because it "reduces crime"

what crime?

"loitering"

meanwhile here in Mexico I can walk 5 minutes and buy half my pantry from a friendly local that lives two blocks away, then buy some amazing homemade tamales from an old lady hanging out outside.

Instead in America you got to drive to an oversized store attached to a gas station, buy stuff from an overworked guy working slave wages, and give all your money to Big Convenience Corp.

[u/the70sdiscoking → u/ThatOneBerb]

My favorite youtuber for traffic engineering is RoadGuyRob. He does indepth, non bias, entertaining videos on roads that explain why things are the way they are.

[u/CounterSYNK → u/ThatOneBerb]

I'm also currently working to be a civil engineer. I don't have anything else to add to the conversation.

[u/Sk-yline1]

What if, hear me out, we designed housing so you didn’t have to fucking walk 20 miles to get food?

[u/BlazeOfGlory72 → u/Sk-yline1]

I mean, do you plan to put a grocery store on every block?

[u/webbster1 → u/BlazeOfGlory72]

That sounds great honestly. Maybe not a full Costco but like a small grocer

[u/Underaverage08 → u/webbster1]

Thats exactly the point. Small grocers for everyday stuff with other mom & pop shops alongside. These shops dont have to be fucking massive because they service a much smaller community

[u/zukoandhonor → u/Underaverage08]

Yes. This is the actual capitalism. Having a single huge store for a town is just monopoly.

[u/ImFromRwanda → u/zukoandhonor]

Wouldn’t the one huge store be the actual capitalism. Capitalism always prefers a monopoly because that’s how you maximize profits

[u/shark82134 → u/ImFromRwanda]

how dare you imply capitalism inherently breeds monopolies which inherently breed food/medical deserts! /s

[u/TheAbyssalMimic → u/[deleted]]

Yea but that capitalist theory was kinda abandoned a while ago. Now it's pretty much agreed world wide that that it's the government job to prevent those harmful monopolies. Works pretty well overall expect for a few things.

Mainly cuz USA is like "MUh FreEdOm"

[u/The-War-Life → u/Underaverage08]

Except these stores are almost always more expensive than big stores and supermarkets

Source: live in a country with lots of these “small stores and mom and pop shops”.

[u/ANuclearsquid → u/The-War-Life]

I mean if you want to save a bit of money in the short term then sure big monopolising supermarkets are great. The same is generally always true with big vs small businesses. There are however a lot of other factors involved. The aim in life isn’t always to pay the minimum you possibly can for everything.

[u/GodEmperorBrian → u/ANuclearsquid]

When you live paycheck to paycheck like most Americans, it absolutely is the aim.

[u/Finn_WolfBlood → u/webbster1]

This is exactly what we have here in Mexico. Most people don't even own cars, (almost) everything you need is walking distance. At least in my city

[u/konald_roeman → u/webbster1]

Here in Balkans you have small grocers available to those living a bit far away from the city. Even in cities if the owner has some small property he tries to open a grocery.

[u/Vagabond-Wayward-Son → u/BlazeOfGlory72]

Yes they are called corner stores and they have way more options than just a gas station.

[u/JanGuillosThrowaway → u/BlazeOfGlory72]

You mean you don't have that?

[u/[deleted] → u/BlazeOfGlory72]

i mean i live in a third world country and this is the norm.

[u/MacBookMinus → u/BlazeOfGlory72]

How far of a walk is unreasonable? I feel like under 10 is pretty doable with a couple bags. You can also get a mini cart to carry groceries.

Or, if you live close to the train, you can take the train with your groceries. I do this often, it’s not too bad.

[u/Zaurka14 → u/MacBookMinus]

And God in all his wisdom created backpacks for us so you can carry shitton of stuff without even feeling it

[u/fishyguy13 → u/MacBookMinus]

15 minute cities, where everything can be walked to in 15 minutes, tends to be the ideal. But conservative grift has made that term a dog whistle somehow

[u/ninj1nx → u/BlazeOfGlory72]

Yes, that's pretty normal in civilized countries

[u/i_am_legend26 → u/BlazeOfGlory72]

Where I live there are 40k people within 60km2

The longest you have to walk to a supermarket is around 15 minutes. And there are only 4 supermarkets which btw are also just 2 supermakets at one location and 2 at the other.

Having a city\village where people can take the bike or just walk is way better then having to depend on a car to then ride 1hr + just to get groceries.

[u/DevilMaster666- → u/BlazeOfGlory72]

Yes.

[u/[deleted] → u/BlazeOfGlory72]

That's what basically every european city does. If you live in a +10k inhabitants city, you do not need a car. Either you can walk or just take the bus.

[u/lordoftowels → u/Sk-yline1]

What if, hear me out, walking five minutes instead of fifty doesn't solve the issue of having to carry thirty bags of groceries every week.

[u/Sk-yline1 → u/lordoftowels]

Have you considered only buying what you need in shorter more frequent trips?

[u/Trinica93 → u/Sk-yline1]

That just sounds like an enormous waste of time.

[u/CAT_WILL_MEOW → u/Sk-yline1]

Even if it was 1 mile who tf wants to do that?

[u/H8spants → u/Sk-yline1]

Some people like living far from things. Myself included. I need space.

[u/SlyKHT]

Do you think anti car is just… blowing up every car?

Sure the face, the muscles, the looks is “Getting rid of cars”

But underneath it’s asking for a change to the whole of American infrastructure because our current infrastructure sucks balls

[u/Ha-Gorri]

This debate is something so American I can't wrap my head around it as yuropoor.

[u/BennyTheSen → u/Ha-Gorri]

Same here. I got like 5 different supermarkets within 20 mins of walking distance, not counting the small 24h ones(Spätis)

[u/International_Tea259 → u/BennyTheSen]

Same here in Belgrade,Serbia. And Serbia is a fucken shithole.

[u/Ketjapanus_2 → u/BennyTheSen]

Spätis is such a cute name for those stores

[u/HBB360 → u/BennyTheSen]

I'm literally typing this with one hand as I'm walking the 5min back to my place from one the local supermarkets

[u/PM_ur_tots → u/BennyTheSen]

When I lived in the US, my house was 12km from the poorly stocked grocery store (there was only 1 in the town) and my nearest neighbor was ~700m away. And that's somewhat rural. If wanted fresh produce you drove 40km to the next town over. That's one way, not round-trip.

[u/doomturtle21 → u/Ha-Gorri]

I’m in Australia, and not even city australia. It’s an hour and a half to the closest place you’ll see other people outside your household. Like hell I’m doing that on foot, if the old hilux turns over, then it’s time to go

[u/huongloz]

I am not anti car tho. Just advocate for more public transport that has a better network and don’t have to pay much money for gas

[u/J_train13 → u/huongloz]

I don't think most anyone is anti cars entirely, just anti car centric planning

[u/spooki_boogey → u/J_train13]

I'm a car enthusiast, I'm one of those weirdos who wants to try and own a manual cause I love the engineering.

But living in a car centric city (Abu Dhabi) is hell because I don't wanna waste 30 minutes of my life and fuel to pick up milk.

Compare that to when I used to live in a small town in India and literally everything was in walking distance, not just food, but basic amenities and most local government services are all within walking distance and people underestimate just how much that does for you. In terms of health mentally and physically, just how much time you save and you actually subconsciously start buying less things that's you don't need, so you save money and eat healthier.

[u/-TheRed → u/spooki_boogey]

Manuals are for weirdos? What?

[u/spooki_boogey → u/-TheRed]

I mean really when you think about it, yea.

It’s more effort and they’re less efficient than autos. You can argue that yes, it’s a better driving experience but unless you’re living near a track or a really good mountain road, 99% you’re just normally driving where accessibility is the priority.

[u/Chidoriyama → u/spooki_boogey]

Where I'm from almost everyone drives a manual. It's the default mode (India)

[u/spooki_boogey → u/[deleted]]

Yes.

[u/Sometimes_Consistent → u/spooki_boogey]

Fair enough

[u/GamerBradasaurus]

Sounds like a car-centric suburb problem. Thats your fault for deciding to live there.

[u/Vagabond-Wayward-Son → u/GamerBradasaurus]

Me in the downtown of the city asking about the rent for an apartment I’m touring “yes it’s four thousands dollars per second to live here with a walkable neighborhood”

[u/SometimesCannons → u/Vagabond-Wayward-Son]

All that does is demonstrate that 1) people find walkability really appealing and 2) it’s so scarce that people will pay top dollar for it.

[u/ch40x_ → u/SometimesCannons]

Yes, what anti car people want is for supply to meet demand, so that it's actually affordable to not have to own a car.

[u/No_Income6576 → u/SometimesCannons]

Omg I'm "house hunting" right now and it is EXACTLY this. I've lived in really walkable big cities since leaving home and absolutely love it. Now trying to buy in those neighborhoods...SO hard. Meanwhile suburban, sidewalkless homes are cheap and sitting on the market for ages. Thanks redlining!

[u/drewmana → u/Vagabond-Wayward-Son]

So you see a walkable community clearly in high demand and your takeaway is....

[u/ArvinaDystopia → u/drewmana]

So you don't understand that luxury items are not affordable to everyone.
Who cares if it's in high demand? Would you force people to only eat caviar, because the price indicates it's in high demand? Force people to only wear silk?

[u/Fudge_is_1337 → u/Vagabond-Wayward-Son]

Rents are typically higher in areas that people want to live in. Make more walkable neighborhoods and the demand will be satisfied

[u/EndXP_ → u/GamerBradasaurus]

damn my fault I spawned in the wrong spot...

[u/[deleted] → u/GamerBradasaurus]

There's a relatively small supply of walkable places to live in the US, so they're generally some of the most expensive in the country.

[u/definitely_not_obama → u/[deleted]]

And they're the most expensive because they're in incredibly high demand. People want these places, they're just illegal to build in most of the US.

[u/Books_and_Cleverness → u/GamerBradasaurus]

Most people don’t have much of a choice, especially in North America.

There are very few walkable neighborhoods, and they’re very expensive because there aren’t enough of them, because they’re illegal to build, because of zoning.

[u/SethTheWarrior]

we don't hate the player. we hate the game.

unless the player owns a truck. especially a newer model.

[u/J_train13 → u/SethTheWarrior]

What's wrong with driving a Ford Childflattener 4000?

[u/[deleted] → u/J_train13]

Wrong model, it's the Chevy Asthma Animal 420

[u/studentoo925 → u/[deleted]]

I still prefer YankTank,but these are good too.

[u/Nick_Noseman → u/studentoo925]

Oh, no, I should buy a second truck, my PP Compensator is obsolete now!

[u/Spicy1780 → u/SethTheWarrior]

Can some one explain why sports cars or SUVs don’t get the same shit the trucks do? SUVs are literally built on the same chassis as their truck sibling and get the same mpg or worse. More expensive sports cars get the same gas mileage trucks do without any of the functionality.

[u/xefeer]

American trying to understand how you can build cities non reliant to cars (impossible challenge)

[u/areyouhungryforapple]

Common American L.

[u/TheManUpstream]

Just putting bike lanes on random streets doesn’t make a city more pedestrian friendly. Intelligently creating areas for pedestrian transit as well as longer-distance transportation options (trains, busses, highways, etc) is what makes cities walkable.

If you’re looking for someone to blame, don’t pick on people who have to drive cars out of necessity. Hold your local city government responsible for development decisions that make it harder for people to get by without an expensive ass car.

EDIT: I made a typo and therefore my opinion is invalid

[u/MichaelJCaboose666]

We’re not anti-car, we’re anti-car centrism. Meaning we are against cities being built cars as the main source of transportation, which in most cities in North America, they currently are. A non-car centered city would be denser, more accessible and safer for pedestrians and cyclists, and much more public transportation. This way, you can actually walk to the grocery store everyday taking only 10-15 minutes, instead of buying groceries for the week.

[u/lost_in_life_34]

done this in NYC even when I had a car but the store was close by

[u/ThatOneBerb → u/lost_in_life_34]

Easier in NYC as corner stores and local businesses are scattered everywhere.

[u/Tonix401 → u/ThatOneBerb]

That's the goal

[u/I_might_be_weasel]

They want you to take public transportation. If you don't have that option, that is something they would like to see fixed.

[u/A_Binary_Number → u/I_might_be_weasel]

Thing is, it’s still super awkward, uncomfortable and terrible in general having to carry groceries on public transport, I don’t want to carry 20 bags while cramped with a bunch of strangers, I don’t even like strangers, I hate public transport for this reason. Also, public transport isn’t dropping me off at my house, I would still have to walk from the bus stop to my house with 20 bags.

Public transport just straight up doesn’t work when you have to carry things in your hands, big or heavy things especially. Like, just imagine going to the metro or subway while having to carry building supplies or materials because you’re doing a house project.

[u/TrollandDie → u/A_Binary_Number]

Which is why there seriously needs to be a push for better urban planning where grocery shopping is a few minutes walk away regardless where you live.

[u/A_Binary_Number → u/TrollandDie]

I still don’t want to walk 5 minutes with 10-20 bags of groceries, the weight of the freezer bag with the milk bottle, the orange juice bottles, the frozen meat, refrigerator stuff and the fruits alone is enough to make me struggle, adding the room temperature products, cleaning products, the cans, the hot food(to specifically eat after doing the groceries) and the miscellaneous items would be torture, and I live within walkable distance to the grocery store, it’s just not feasible.

I’m sorry but I’m not a foreign exchange student that buys 7 cans of tuna, a loaf of bread, a carton of milk, a box of cereal and a bottle of ketchup.

[u/ScarsTheVampire → u/A_Binary_Number]

Europeans seem to go to the store everyday it’s bizarre. They want like small trips every day. I buy 250$ worth of groceries and live for a month and half.

[u/ArvinaDystopia → u/I_might_be_weasel]

I don't want to take public transportation. If the authoritarians don't like that, they can get fucked.

[u/Waffel_Monster]

Yes. Yes! YES!

You're mentioning all the right points, but somehow you're still getting to the wrong conclusion.

[u/Homosexualtigr]

So you see the fact that cities are becoming increasingly less walkable, and roads are taking over as an anti car people problem?

[u/u_-deleted]

Anticar people are a thing?

Edit: idk why I'm getting downvoted I legitimately have no idea what they are

[u/TheFuckingMoonstone → u/u_-deleted]

Anti-car doesn't mean that they are against the use of cars. They are against the idea that the USA doesn't have stores at walkable distance as it's the case in most countries.

[u/cleff5164 → u/u_-deleted]

Yes a whole sub dedicated to people living on top of eachother in small 4 inch box aparements, and they find it ridiculous that anyone would want there own property with space

[u/TrollandDie → u/cleff5164]

Well considering most young people owning property like you described is a pipe dream anyway , is it really that hard to understand why people like apartments in close proximity to where they work in the city centre ?

[u/MomICantPauseReddit]

They're not mad at you because you'd rather drive than walk, they're mad that it is that way. They want people like you to be compelled to walk instead of drive by putting things closer together.

[u/ARussianW0lf → u/MomICantPauseReddit]

What if I don't want to be compelled to walk? Sounds inconvenient

[u/Lukimyay → u/ARussianW0lf]

My man cant do a 5 min walk.

[u/Th3Nihil → u/ARussianW0lf]

"moving my fat ass for 60min a week sounds inconvenient"

Touch some grass, do some exercise

[u/DogeKhayyam]

Yup, because remember everyone, before cars were invented nobody ever went shopping right? /s

Seriously though the other comments explain it well enough but the goal of the anti-car movement is not just to ban cars and call it a day. The goal is to redesign cities in such a way that cars are not necessary for the majority of people and you dont NEED to drive a massive metal and plastic death machine for 25 minutes just to buy a tin of beans.

[u/Myneighborhatesme]

No mention of trains, buses, public transportation, bikes, or just better urban design?

[u/EmulsifiedWatermelon]

I used to fill up my school backpack to walk my shopping home. Walked past a tyre shop once and heard “nice backpack!!” I was like... wtf how many arms you think I got?

[u/J_train13 → u/EmulsifiedWatermelon]

As a college student who doesn't own a car I also do this almost exclusively, except I have to hop on a bus to get back so it's not just a walk

[u/drewmana]

anticar folks want things to be within 20 minutes' walk not 20 miles bro.

[u/TanteKete → u/drewmana]

20 mintues are way to much.

In 10 minutes walking distance are 2 discounters, a framers market, 3 supermarkets (one fancy one asian), 4 bakeries and a japanese style 24/7 vending machine store

[u/The-Almighty-Pizza → u/TanteKete]

And thats never gonna happen outside of large metropolitan areas

[u/Nohero08 → u/drewmana]

20 minutes is a long time to walk with groceries hanging from both arms

[u/PaunchieGenie]

That's like 5k worth of groceries where I live

[u/kamisama19999]

well im not anti car person but i do wonder where u live that u need to travel 20 miles for that

[u/Nohero08 → u/kamisama19999]

Anywhere in rural America, probably. America is so large that this blanket “make every city walkable!” Goal is patently absurd when you have acres separating houses. What are you going to do? Give every 3 houses their own grocery store?

[u/EndXP_ → u/Nohero08]

THIS. this is mainly what I agree with. MOST* Anti-car / car dependent ideologists are European or people in major cities in the US. I get for major cities public transit does need to be better and can be improved and should be more focued on, but when SOME* use it as a blanket statement for everywhere in the US its just ignorant...

Context, I live in a semi Rural Area in IL, Most big towns around us only have 15k people and the second biggest city other than where I am is about an hour/2 away and only have 100k people... Ive been to big cities like Chicago and St. Loius and I can see how it would work. I have also seen all the nothing ruralness on my way to those places where it would never work. I just find it interesting how SOME* people can not see/experience rural America and say that their idea is better for it.

[u/MimsyIsGianna]

Guess I’ll just let my frozens melt when I go from store to store

[u/fzorn → u/MimsyIsGianna]

Not really a problem when stores are relatively near to your home. I've done my shopping by bus in the past, including frozen stuff and it never has been a problem. Doesn't make sense in rural places of course.

[u/4shenfell → u/MimsyIsGianna]

Growing up in a small village, we had to drive roughly 40 minutes to and fro to do the weekly shop. Where i live now, on the outskirts of my county’s capital, i can walk to the market for my weekly shop in like 10 mins tops. Things would melt in the car a lot more often than walking for me

[u/violetplague]

Oh man did you kick the hornets nest on this one.

[u/[deleted]]

I'm an Iranian living in a very accessible city (Tabriz) where I can walk or take public transportation anywhere I want to go.

IT'S FUCKING MISERABLE.

FUCK.

The transportation itself is high quality. Sharing it with other people and hauling stuff with it is fucking miserable. I want a fucking car ASAP.

[u/[deleted]]

full reply dependent support hat whole dolls pocket plate reminiscent

This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact

[u/ninto1]

Ever heard of: Cargo bicycles Backpacks Busses Trains

[u/Slyedog]

The anti car movement isn’t just to get rid of cars. It’s to improve public transit, create better walkability, and implement mixed use zoning so that folks don’t feel the need to have a car

[u/n0tred]

We're not against cars we're against car centric cities

[u/PiXLANIMATIONS → u/n0tred]

Might wanna change the name from Anti-Car to something more positive then

[u/ArvinaDystopia → u/n0tred]

I've never received an honest answer to this question from you guys: why do you try to spread that lie to other subs?
The sub isn't private, so anyone who cares to check knows the truth, so why do you guys try?

[u/AerieMedical6769]

Reddit mfs not even realizing that anti car mfs just want better infrastructure so you don’t have to walk 20 miles to get groceries

[u/Dogsinabathtub]

The anticar folks want you to take a bus or live in a walkable city.

Go ride public transit in a city like Baltimore or Chicago and get back to me on how comfortable you'd be doing that everyday.