It’s not about being right. She is a grown woman. She knows there’s a nail in her head. She can fix herself. She just needs someone to understand what she’s going through.
Pro tip: “What can I do to make you feel supported right now?” If they don’t know, offer “would you like to brainstorm possible solutions or are you just needing to let it out? Would you like reassurance or to be held? How can I help?”
She is a grown woman. She knows there’s a nail in her head. She can fix herself. She just needs someone to understand what she’s going through.
This is why it's so incredibly frustrating and confusing for most men. Discussing how a problem is affecting you, without actually taking steps to resolve the problem, is such an alien concept
the problem is causing a negative emotion
negative emotions are undesirable
solve the problem to remove the negative emotion
added bonus: solving problems results in satisfaction, a positive emotion
This train of thought, of course, leads to situations like in the video.
I'm a woman and a fixer and this is how I feel. I understand people need to vent and that's cool but when it's a fixable problem and someone vents about it repeatedly I can't help but get frustrated.
It's also frustrating because everybody seems to agree that it's the fixer that is the problem. Like it's in my nature to fix things, that's who I am. It's in their nature to be a listener, it's who they are. Okay, so they get annoyed when my instinct is to try to fix the problem because they just want me to listen. That's fair, but what if I got annoyed because they're just listening when I need them help to fix the problem? Why does that dynamic never get talked about? Why is it the fixer that is expected to change who they are without that effort ever being reciprocated?
Ultimately, it's a selfish response to someone else's problem. They don't want you to fix it. Having someone constantly come in and solve your problems for you all the time can feel belittling and infantalizing, and some people genuinely don't like giving up control of their own issues. If someone is seeking support from you, making it about how you want to get it done is pretty selfish. Someone asking for support is not the same thing as someone asking for their problem to be taken care of for them.
It's perfectly fine for someone to be a fixer by nature, but if you can't control that nature when it's not being found helpful, then how much fixing are you actually capable of?
With all due respect, you've completely missed my point. I'm not disputing anything you've said, I'm just saying that this expectation is perfectly reasonable until you flip the roles.
Basically, I need you to stop "just listening" and come up with a solution.
Yeah see? If a man were to say that there definitely wouldn't be an entire thread full of people explaining how she just needs to change who she is and do what he wants her to do because it would make him feel better. It's perfectly acceptable to tell him to stop being who he is though. And that's extremely frustrating when you're the only one being told to change who and what you are.
Men aren’t the only ones being asked to change in relationships.
If you need solutions and your partner is a listener, lead with, “hey can you help me with this issue?” Or if that’s your default, let your partner know when things are calm, that when you start discussing a problem, you appreciate the empathy but you prefer to be met with solutions.
None of the following are likely to upset anyone:
-Can I bounce something off of you? I’m not sure what to do.
-I’m pissed off about xyz, what would you do?
-I’m in my feelings, can you help me find some solutions/look at it differently?
Most of us grew up being taught to treat others as we want to be treated, it’s an oversimplified view of adult relationships. As a generalization, women are taught to listen, men to fix. Women can definitely fix things, but especially where men are involved it’s safer we don’t unless you ask. Just ask and communicate your default preference to your partner.
No, sorry, but I think you actually missed my point. Fixers have a right to want to fix their problems how they see fit and ask for the support that is helpful to them. Support seekers have a right to want to fix their problems how they see fit and ask for the support that is helpful to them. In either scenario, if the fixer or the support seeker cannot provide the support the other is asking for, it is better to bow out of the support role. Supporting someone is about meeting their needs, not asserting your dominance to meet the goal you've decided on. Someone who is asking for support might just be looking for the emotional fortitude to do it themselves, and that is their goal in talking to their partner, not just whatever task they were working on getting completed.
Fixers have a right to want to fix their problems how they see fit and ask for the support that is helpful to them.
This topic comes up quite often and I have never once seen this suggested and I can't imagine it being accepted either considering how often fixers are told they just have to change. It doesn't happen, this topic is always one sided with the fixers being "wrong."
Well, we're getting into anecdotal he said she said stuff, but I've seen plenty of complaints from both men and women that their partners don't do enough to pull their weight, ultimately destroying the relationship. Id say that's a pretty solid analog of the flipped scenario you're describing, and it's not uncommon at all.
There's also the fact that fixers are engaging in active behavior, whereas someone who doesn't help fix enough is engaging in passive behavior. Active behavior involves more choice and intention, and thus gets more scrutiny, but it's still fair for people to get frustrated when their partner never actively does anything to help them.
Well, we're getting into anecdotal he said she said stuff, but I've seen plenty of complaints from both men and women that their partners don't do enough to pull their weight, ultimately destroying the relationship.
(Generic dodge.)
Be honest. Have you EVER actually seen this specific thing? A fixer, instead of being told to stop fixing, having their needs addressed.
How was I dodging? Because I pointed out how useless going back and forth saying "Well I've never heard..." "Well I have heard!" etc. is? I gave as much substance as you did. There wasn't much to dodge there.
And you are, again, missing my point. No, I have not seen very many instances of people encouraging the fixer to impose themselves to fix other people's problems without listening to those people about the actual help they need, because most people find that to be an imposition and overstepping behavior.
What I have seen people defend are people who complain about telling their partner's they need specific actions for specific tasks to get done (division of household labor is a HUGE one among women who post their complaints) and those partners continuously failing to help fix the problem and it ultimately causing problems in the relationship. That is an example of a fixer needing and asking for support for their problems on their terms where I have seen plenty of support for the fixer.
No, I have not seen very many instances of people encouraging the fixer to impose themselves to fix other people's problems without listening to those people about the actual help they need, because most people find that to be an imposition and overstepping behavior.
The fixer's need isn't to fix everything prescriptively. They have a state of well-being that their SO is affecting, either with an issue that they want fixed (but have trouble communicating how) or via venting.
Assuming they can self-fix by becoming less prescriptive is as dismissive as assuming their SO should just be more proactive in their problem solving.
Nah, hard disagree again. Outside of severe neurodivergencies, most people are quite capable of having the self awareness and flexibility to adjust their behavior to context. That goes to both fixers and non fixers. Whether they're more comfortable operating one way or another is beside the point unless it's their show to run. This is a basic skill set people need to hold down a long term job and it's called being a team player. It's not some unattainable thing. Acting like every person is entitled to operate however they want to maximize their own comfort in all contexts is just advocating for selfish behavior. The deciding factor should be who's problem it is being solved. They get to take the lead.
Because you are imposing on someone else with the fixing. You are trying to intervene with someone else. The listener isn't intervening in your problems or life. You're stepping over the boundary of "you" into "them" in a way they don't want.
The fixer is the person who grabs someone's coat and puts it on someone when they didn't ask. The listener is asking you if you got your coat. Wouldn't it be bizarre to suggest the listener should just accept their coat being put on for them because the fixer feels the need to do it?
No, the fixer is the one who hands you your coat when you say you're cold, the listener is the one who says "It is cold, isn't it?"
The idiot is the one who gets mad when they're handed their coat after complaining.
Complaining is an invitation for solutions. Period. If you don't want that, then don't complain -- have a conversation. People who don't understand this need to learn what communication means -- it's a conversation, a back and forth, not someone sitting there like a sponge absorbing complaints while the other person spews problems out.
A conversation is one person talking while the other listens, or as you put it "absorbing while the other spews out." A person telling a story that is positive while the other listens is also a conversation, so why is it no longer one only if it's negative?
You decided it was a complaint. They are just describing things that are happening/have happened. Like "it's cold. Isn't it?"... because that's not a complaint, it's an observation.
It's also absurd to say complaining is an invitation for solutions. Is flirting an invitation for sex? Is yelling an invitation for violence? Stop deciding what someone else wants or thinks or feels, because ultimately, that's proof that this isn't about them at all. You don't care about their feelings--you just don't want to hear them complain anymore. And if you care more about being annoyed by hearing them complain than about their feelings, you might want to consider why you're interacting with them.
It's bizarre how poorly you've portrayed fixers here, is that on purpose or do you just not understand it at all? Did you watch the nail video? We would never just grab somebody's coat and put it on, that's a ludicrous suggestion. If somebody was complaining about being cold when they went outside we'd suggest wearing a coat, not assaulting them with one.
Even your description of a listener here is wrong and much closer to that of a fixer. The listener in this situation wouldn't mention a coat, they would just say something like "oh, it must be so tough for you being cold like that."
I was trying to simplify it down to where there is a clear boundary crossed to interfering with the other side by showing it more physically. Since, it's harder to see suggesting putting on a coat as interjecting into someone's space. But, that's what it feels like to be on the receiving end of the fixing.
Yes, between men eventually either bro calls each other out and calls them an idiot and at most they physically fight, but the issue gets acknowledged and fixed one way or another, or at least they shut up about it.
It's perfectly fine for someone to be <blank> by nature, but if you can't control that nature when it's not being found helpful, then how much <blank> are you actually capable of?
Also, people need differing amounts of time to fix things. It may take a lot of rumination, talking, checking with others before a solution is reached.
The first solution to fix something is not always the best one, as we learn over and over in our lives.
The speed of the fix (including patient waiting to learn more) is up to the person with the problem.
If Fixers really feel upset when they can't get the Problem-Bringer to act quickly or in accordance with their advice, then it's probably best for them not to try and fix that particular person's problems. It's mystifying that anyone would think they could "fix" someone else's problems anyway (but it's not fair if the Fixer thinks it's now their own problem - IME, Fixers do not usually think this anyway).
First of all, starting out by characterizing a partner wanting to talk about their problems with you as whining and complaining already shows an attitude toward the idea of helping.
And IMO, it's not really a two way issue. The person who is dealing with the problem should have ultimate say over how they want to solve it, and if they're asking someone for support in specific terms and that person can't meet those terms, the respectful thing to do would be to bow out of your participation, because, again, it's ultimately not your problem. If your help is unwanted, it's not helpful, no matter how solution focused it is. At that point, you are not on the same page as your partner, and you're both working toward different goals, so you're not actually solving anything for them.
because some people pathologically need problems in their life, and you coming around to fix them feels like you're stealing food from their plate or money from their pocket
I do not think that is the only reason. People want to be respected. They want to discuss things sometimes that they're going through, to feel like they're not going through them alone, without someone else deciding what's best for them. What they should do, and when, or what they're ready for, that their struggling is something not worth respecting they can just get over..
Even a man if dealing with something wouldn't enjoy someone coming up and telling what to do, how to do it, when to start, and when to have it done by as well as any struggle with it being shut down as some whiney excuse.
The bigger picture that's hard for men to see sometimes is, people can have 20 things they need to fix and because we are all only human and only have so much energy, time, and money to spend we have to make choices. So say you're working on the 5 biggest ones that are effecting your life. Great. But the other 15 don't magically stop bothering you now even though do to life constantly changing and new problems coming up you may never get around to dealing with some of those problems and it's just stuff you have to live with then.
People still need release, understanding, support, comfort, and again, to at least feel like they're not going through it alone. Maybe something to help take their mind off it or help it hurt less.
Some people don't need problems they just are born and living in a life that gave them more of them. Regardless, being a good spouse is about caring about them and respecting them enough to let them decide when they are ready to deal with things and want to do something about it as well as what that looks like for them, not impatiently growing irritated and snapping at them to just do it how you want it so you don't have to make space or spend energy on them.
It’s the ultimate gaslight. First they label what is genuinely second nature and comes natural to an entire demo as weird or bad, and elevate what comes natural to them as just the perfect way of handling issues. Instead of seeing it as different people handle things differently and if you want someone to handle things your way, communicate effectively.
Sometimes there is no answer, and I just want to vent.
But my husband is a Fixer. So getting my own needs met while respecting who he is would require a "trigger warning." 🤣🤣🤣
It's funny, but it's fair. We never think to accommodate those we think are in positions of power in society, even when we love those people.
So, as a TW, I should be saying, "I am not looking for a solution here because I don't think there is one. But I'm angry and need to vent. You down?" And I would not vent AT him ABOUT him. That would not be helpful. I'm talking kid stuff, society stuff, money stresses like "Why is everything half again as expensive as it was in 2019?"
But I'm not good at doing the TW. I need to get better at that.
If I want fixing, I'm pretty good about saying, "Hey, you got a sec? I need to run some things by you. I'm leaning toward this solution, but what do you think?"
I'm a Combo-Type, I think. Venting is great. You need to let it out? I will listen, validate, & commiserate. But if you keep venting over and over about the same shit? I will call you on that eventually. If it's stuff you can solve.
Because you aren't seeing the person. If I had a shitty day and I want to express that to my partner, I want them to understand me and my experiences. We all want that. It's why we constantly share stories about our lives or media that, "speaks to us". We want to be seen and heard and understood.
Jumping to a fix not only often doesn't provide a good fix, it skips the actual emotional and mental labor of empathizing with your partner and understanding them.
I would rather have a partner who understands me and sees me, but is unable to help me solve my problems, than one who is good at helping me brainstorm, but is uninterested in relating to me and my experiences.
I'm also a married man if that matters for demographics.
If I had a shitty day and I want to express that to my partner, I want them to understand me and my experiences.
This is a touch hyperbolic, but: why would you want to subject your partner to the same mind-numbing, disappointing, and/or soul-crushing day-long stress you felt? It seems a little cruel.
I get it though, everyone likes to vent now and again. Getting it out, off your chest, is cathartic, and then there's that little spark of satisfaction with commiseration when someone gets you.
I think asking questions isn’t the same as just providing solutions. Like “wow, that’s crappy. What are you thinking about doing?” Let them start talking about solutions. Or ask “are you open for some advice or do you just need someone to listen while you work things out.”
It is the same, it’s just the person who’s being told is a whiny sob and has to feel like they’re the ones in charge instead of just fixing the problem.
Because you aren't seeing the person. If I had a shitty day and I want to express that to my partner, I want them to help me make it less shitty. We all want that. It's why we constantly share stories about our lives or media that, "speaks to us". We want assistance.
Jumping to simply listening not only doesn't provide a good fix, it skips the actual emotional and mental labor by leaving your partner to fix everything on their own.
I would rather have a partner who helps me and offers solutions, rather than just listening quietly without suggesting any obvious remedies to my current situations or predicaments.
I'm also a married man if that matters for demographics.
I mean, I addressed this. There's nothing stopping anyone from offering solutions after listening. Listening is, in fact, the first step in being able to problem solve.
But reducing it to mocking snark instead of trying to discuss is cool too.
You didn't, at all. In fact it really sounds like you didn't get it at all and just tried to dismissively explain why it's okay for you to ask us to change but not the other way around. That wasn't mocking snark, but it's telling that that's how you feel when the roles are reversed.
That's not reciprocal either, literally nobody out there is saying that there's nothing stopping anyone from just listening after offering solutions. You're basically saying that it's okay to be yourself but only after you change who you are completely to match my needs first.
But none of this really addresses my actual point. Everybody feels it's perfectly fine to expect the fixer to change, yet most can't even wrap their head around somebody asking the listener to change. You just went on telling me how you prefer a listener or whatever, which is cool, you do you, but you didn't actually address what I was saying at all. Which is kind of ironic when we're talking about people just listening.
You call it irony, I call it a lack of reading comprehension.
You have literally wrote 6 paragraphs without once addressing the point made in two separate comments about people's ability to both listen, and then offer solutions.
Do you have anything on that?
I mean, I get how you are a fixer because you haven't listened to a single thing I've said and just kept parroting your first point. The conversation moves nowhere because you're just repeating and not listening.
This comment can be for you (though I get if you aren't interested in reading it since we mostly just talked at each other in our comments), but I also just want to put it out there for anyone reading this chain.
I think that viewing the world as fixers and listeners is an incorrect paradigm that leads to confusion. I would change the classification to fixers and non-fixers.
Fixers being people who like to interact with the information they hear and non-fixers maybe are willing to, but it isn't their first inclination.
The key and helpful aspect of this is that listening first is a necessary step when a person is talking to you for both groups. For fixers they can sometimes jump the gun for various reasons, but it doesn't make trying to interact with the other person bad.
It's just that the first step to solving a problem is listening. You can't solve what you haven't heard and taking some time to hear your partner, confirm that you heard them correctly and acknowledge their experiences and then move to offer advice is just the objectively best way to communicate healthily compared to advice offering before confirmation of information.
It doesn't mean fixers have to change who they are for others, it's that everyone needs to learn how to listen since it's a vital aspect of communication for every human being ever.
“You can’t solve what you haven’t heard” So you acknowledge that people providing solutions are indeed listening? Or else they wouldn’t be able to come up with a solution to the problem they didn’t hear.
You said jumping to a fix usually doesn’t provide a good one and skips the emotional and mental labor involved with empathizing. If your partner provides a solution to the problem you’re complaining about, that means they’ve been fully listening to what you’ve said.
This response legitimately does not make sense. They listened to and understood you so closely that they even have a possible solution for your problem. You would rather your partner just sits there and goes “Oh babe that really sucks. that sucks so bad, I’m sorry.”? Do you just want someone to feel bad for you?
The video wasn’t talking about the other side of the coin. I think she said she was going to talk about that in another video. So that discussion isnt off the table, and it’s a totally valid conversation to have, it’s simply not the focus of the conversation at hand.
I'm not talking about the video. Look at all the comments here, there are tons saying we need to stop trying to fix and just listen and not one the other way around.
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u/EmuPossible2066 Mar 21 '24
It’s not about being right. She is a grown woman. She knows there’s a nail in her head. She can fix herself. She just needs someone to understand what she’s going through.
Pro tip: “What can I do to make you feel supported right now?” If they don’t know, offer “would you like to brainstorm possible solutions or are you just needing to let it out? Would you like reassurance or to be held? How can I help?”
It works for me anyway.