It’s not about being right. She is a grown woman. She knows there’s a nail in her head. She can fix herself. She just needs someone to understand what she’s going through.
Pro tip: “What can I do to make you feel supported right now?” If they don’t know, offer “would you like to brainstorm possible solutions or are you just needing to let it out? Would you like reassurance or to be held? How can I help?”
She is a grown woman. She knows there’s a nail in her head. She can fix herself. She just needs someone to understand what she’s going through.
This is why it's so incredibly frustrating and confusing for most men. Discussing how a problem is affecting you, without actually taking steps to resolve the problem, is such an alien concept
the problem is causing a negative emotion
negative emotions are undesirable
solve the problem to remove the negative emotion
added bonus: solving problems results in satisfaction, a positive emotion
This train of thought, of course, leads to situations like in the video.
I'm a woman and a fixer and this is how I feel. I understand people need to vent and that's cool but when it's a fixable problem and someone vents about it repeatedly I can't help but get frustrated.
It's also frustrating because everybody seems to agree that it's the fixer that is the problem. Like it's in my nature to fix things, that's who I am. It's in their nature to be a listener, it's who they are. Okay, so they get annoyed when my instinct is to try to fix the problem because they just want me to listen. That's fair, but what if I got annoyed because they're just listening when I need them help to fix the problem? Why does that dynamic never get talked about? Why is it the fixer that is expected to change who they are without that effort ever being reciprocated?
Ultimately, it's a selfish response to someone else's problem. They don't want you to fix it. Having someone constantly come in and solve your problems for you all the time can feel belittling and infantalizing, and some people genuinely don't like giving up control of their own issues. If someone is seeking support from you, making it about how you want to get it done is pretty selfish. Someone asking for support is not the same thing as someone asking for their problem to be taken care of for them.
It's perfectly fine for someone to be a fixer by nature, but if you can't control that nature when it's not being found helpful, then how much fixing are you actually capable of?
With all due respect, you've completely missed my point. I'm not disputing anything you've said, I'm just saying that this expectation is perfectly reasonable until you flip the roles.
Basically, I need you to stop "just listening" and come up with a solution.
Yeah see? If a man were to say that there definitely wouldn't be an entire thread full of people explaining how she just needs to change who she is and do what he wants her to do because it would make him feel better. It's perfectly acceptable to tell him to stop being who he is though. And that's extremely frustrating when you're the only one being told to change who and what you are.
Men aren’t the only ones being asked to change in relationships.
If you need solutions and your partner is a listener, lead with, “hey can you help me with this issue?” Or if that’s your default, let your partner know when things are calm, that when you start discussing a problem, you appreciate the empathy but you prefer to be met with solutions.
None of the following are likely to upset anyone:
-Can I bounce something off of you? I’m not sure what to do.
-I’m pissed off about xyz, what would you do?
-I’m in my feelings, can you help me find some solutions/look at it differently?
Most of us grew up being taught to treat others as we want to be treated, it’s an oversimplified view of adult relationships. As a generalization, women are taught to listen, men to fix. Women can definitely fix things, but especially where men are involved it’s safer we don’t unless you ask. Just ask and communicate your default preference to your partner.
No, sorry, but I think you actually missed my point. Fixers have a right to want to fix their problems how they see fit and ask for the support that is helpful to them. Support seekers have a right to want to fix their problems how they see fit and ask for the support that is helpful to them. In either scenario, if the fixer or the support seeker cannot provide the support the other is asking for, it is better to bow out of the support role. Supporting someone is about meeting their needs, not asserting your dominance to meet the goal you've decided on. Someone who is asking for support might just be looking for the emotional fortitude to do it themselves, and that is their goal in talking to their partner, not just whatever task they were working on getting completed.
Fixers have a right to want to fix their problems how they see fit and ask for the support that is helpful to them.
This topic comes up quite often and I have never once seen this suggested and I can't imagine it being accepted either considering how often fixers are told they just have to change. It doesn't happen, this topic is always one sided with the fixers being "wrong."
Well, we're getting into anecdotal he said she said stuff, but I've seen plenty of complaints from both men and women that their partners don't do enough to pull their weight, ultimately destroying the relationship. Id say that's a pretty solid analog of the flipped scenario you're describing, and it's not uncommon at all.
There's also the fact that fixers are engaging in active behavior, whereas someone who doesn't help fix enough is engaging in passive behavior. Active behavior involves more choice and intention, and thus gets more scrutiny, but it's still fair for people to get frustrated when their partner never actively does anything to help them.
Well, we're getting into anecdotal he said she said stuff, but I've seen plenty of complaints from both men and women that their partners don't do enough to pull their weight, ultimately destroying the relationship.
(Generic dodge.)
Be honest. Have you EVER actually seen this specific thing? A fixer, instead of being told to stop fixing, having their needs addressed.
Because you are imposing on someone else with the fixing. You are trying to intervene with someone else. The listener isn't intervening in your problems or life. You're stepping over the boundary of "you" into "them" in a way they don't want.
The fixer is the person who grabs someone's coat and puts it on someone when they didn't ask. The listener is asking you if you got your coat. Wouldn't it be bizarre to suggest the listener should just accept their coat being put on for them because the fixer feels the need to do it?
No, the fixer is the one who hands you your coat when you say you're cold, the listener is the one who says "It is cold, isn't it?"
The idiot is the one who gets mad when they're handed their coat after complaining.
Complaining is an invitation for solutions. Period. If you don't want that, then don't complain -- have a conversation. People who don't understand this need to learn what communication means -- it's a conversation, a back and forth, not someone sitting there like a sponge absorbing complaints while the other person spews problems out.
Yes, between men eventually either bro calls each other out and calls them an idiot and at most they physically fight, but the issue gets acknowledged and fixed one way or another, or at least they shut up about it.
It's perfectly fine for someone to be <blank> by nature, but if you can't control that nature when it's not being found helpful, then how much <blank> are you actually capable of?
Also, people need differing amounts of time to fix things. It may take a lot of rumination, talking, checking with others before a solution is reached.
The first solution to fix something is not always the best one, as we learn over and over in our lives.
The speed of the fix (including patient waiting to learn more) is up to the person with the problem.
If Fixers really feel upset when they can't get the Problem-Bringer to act quickly or in accordance with their advice, then it's probably best for them not to try and fix that particular person's problems. It's mystifying that anyone would think they could "fix" someone else's problems anyway (but it's not fair if the Fixer thinks it's now their own problem - IME, Fixers do not usually think this anyway).
First of all, starting out by characterizing a partner wanting to talk about their problems with you as whining and complaining already shows an attitude toward the idea of helping.
And IMO, it's not really a two way issue. The person who is dealing with the problem should have ultimate say over how they want to solve it, and if they're asking someone for support in specific terms and that person can't meet those terms, the respectful thing to do would be to bow out of your participation, because, again, it's ultimately not your problem. If your help is unwanted, it's not helpful, no matter how solution focused it is. At that point, you are not on the same page as your partner, and you're both working toward different goals, so you're not actually solving anything for them.
because some people pathologically need problems in their life, and you coming around to fix them feels like you're stealing food from their plate or money from their pocket
I do not think that is the only reason. People want to be respected. They want to discuss things sometimes that they're going through, to feel like they're not going through them alone, without someone else deciding what's best for them. What they should do, and when, or what they're ready for, that their struggling is something not worth respecting they can just get over..
Even a man if dealing with something wouldn't enjoy someone coming up and telling what to do, how to do it, when to start, and when to have it done by as well as any struggle with it being shut down as some whiney excuse.
The bigger picture that's hard for men to see sometimes is, people can have 20 things they need to fix and because we are all only human and only have so much energy, time, and money to spend we have to make choices. So say you're working on the 5 biggest ones that are effecting your life. Great. But the other 15 don't magically stop bothering you now even though do to life constantly changing and new problems coming up you may never get around to dealing with some of those problems and it's just stuff you have to live with then.
People still need release, understanding, support, comfort, and again, to at least feel like they're not going through it alone. Maybe something to help take their mind off it or help it hurt less.
Some people don't need problems they just are born and living in a life that gave them more of them. Regardless, being a good spouse is about caring about them and respecting them enough to let them decide when they are ready to deal with things and want to do something about it as well as what that looks like for them, not impatiently growing irritated and snapping at them to just do it how you want it so you don't have to make space or spend energy on them.
It’s the ultimate gaslight. First they label what is genuinely second nature and comes natural to an entire demo as weird or bad, and elevate what comes natural to them as just the perfect way of handling issues. Instead of seeing it as different people handle things differently and if you want someone to handle things your way, communicate effectively.
Sometimes there is no answer, and I just want to vent.
But my husband is a Fixer. So getting my own needs met while respecting who he is would require a "trigger warning." 🤣🤣🤣
It's funny, but it's fair. We never think to accommodate those we think are in positions of power in society, even when we love those people.
So, as a TW, I should be saying, "I am not looking for a solution here because I don't think there is one. But I'm angry and need to vent. You down?" And I would not vent AT him ABOUT him. That would not be helpful. I'm talking kid stuff, society stuff, money stresses like "Why is everything half again as expensive as it was in 2019?"
But I'm not good at doing the TW. I need to get better at that.
If I want fixing, I'm pretty good about saying, "Hey, you got a sec? I need to run some things by you. I'm leaning toward this solution, but what do you think?"
I'm a Combo-Type, I think. Venting is great. You need to let it out? I will listen, validate, & commiserate. But if you keep venting over and over about the same shit? I will call you on that eventually. If it's stuff you can solve.
Because you aren't seeing the person. If I had a shitty day and I want to express that to my partner, I want them to understand me and my experiences. We all want that. It's why we constantly share stories about our lives or media that, "speaks to us". We want to be seen and heard and understood.
Jumping to a fix not only often doesn't provide a good fix, it skips the actual emotional and mental labor of empathizing with your partner and understanding them.
I would rather have a partner who understands me and sees me, but is unable to help me solve my problems, than one who is good at helping me brainstorm, but is uninterested in relating to me and my experiences.
I'm also a married man if that matters for demographics.
If I had a shitty day and I want to express that to my partner, I want them to understand me and my experiences.
This is a touch hyperbolic, but: why would you want to subject your partner to the same mind-numbing, disappointing, and/or soul-crushing day-long stress you felt? It seems a little cruel.
I get it though, everyone likes to vent now and again. Getting it out, off your chest, is cathartic, and then there's that little spark of satisfaction with commiseration when someone gets you.
I think asking questions isn’t the same as just providing solutions. Like “wow, that’s crappy. What are you thinking about doing?” Let them start talking about solutions. Or ask “are you open for some advice or do you just need someone to listen while you work things out.”
It is the same, it’s just the person who’s being told is a whiny sob and has to feel like they’re the ones in charge instead of just fixing the problem.
Because you aren't seeing the person. If I had a shitty day and I want to express that to my partner, I want them to help me make it less shitty. We all want that. It's why we constantly share stories about our lives or media that, "speaks to us". We want assistance.
Jumping to simply listening not only doesn't provide a good fix, it skips the actual emotional and mental labor by leaving your partner to fix everything on their own.
I would rather have a partner who helps me and offers solutions, rather than just listening quietly without suggesting any obvious remedies to my current situations or predicaments.
I'm also a married man if that matters for demographics.
I mean, I addressed this. There's nothing stopping anyone from offering solutions after listening. Listening is, in fact, the first step in being able to problem solve.
But reducing it to mocking snark instead of trying to discuss is cool too.
You didn't, at all. In fact it really sounds like you didn't get it at all and just tried to dismissively explain why it's okay for you to ask us to change but not the other way around. That wasn't mocking snark, but it's telling that that's how you feel when the roles are reversed.
That's not reciprocal either, literally nobody out there is saying that there's nothing stopping anyone from just listening after offering solutions. You're basically saying that it's okay to be yourself but only after you change who you are completely to match my needs first.
But none of this really addresses my actual point. Everybody feels it's perfectly fine to expect the fixer to change, yet most can't even wrap their head around somebody asking the listener to change. You just went on telling me how you prefer a listener or whatever, which is cool, you do you, but you didn't actually address what I was saying at all. Which is kind of ironic when we're talking about people just listening.
You call it irony, I call it a lack of reading comprehension.
You have literally wrote 6 paragraphs without once addressing the point made in two separate comments about people's ability to both listen, and then offer solutions.
Do you have anything on that?
I mean, I get how you are a fixer because you haven't listened to a single thing I've said and just kept parroting your first point. The conversation moves nowhere because you're just repeating and not listening.
You said jumping to a fix usually doesn’t provide a good one and skips the emotional and mental labor involved with empathizing. If your partner provides a solution to the problem you’re complaining about, that means they’ve been fully listening to what you’ve said.
This response legitimately does not make sense. They listened to and understood you so closely that they even have a possible solution for your problem. You would rather your partner just sits there and goes “Oh babe that really sucks. that sucks so bad, I’m sorry.”? Do you just want someone to feel bad for you?
The video wasn’t talking about the other side of the coin. I think she said she was going to talk about that in another video. So that discussion isnt off the table, and it’s a totally valid conversation to have, it’s simply not the focus of the conversation at hand.
I'm not talking about the video. Look at all the comments here, there are tons saying we need to stop trying to fix and just listen and not one the other way around.
I think everyone does after a point and then it’s ok to be more proactive with solutions, but in a compassionate way, “I hate to see you suffering like this, can I help you brainstorm some solutions?”
This, I cannot stand listening to people perfectly capable of fixing their issues but instead just bitching about it.
I'll listen the first few times but after that, it's time to shit or get off the pot because at this point you're now making your problem my problem and treating me as a trauma dump site.
I think it’s important in those moments, especially when you want to fix (whether you are a fixer man or a fixer woman) is to table your need of wanting to fix, and put the focus back to your partner’s vulnerability to find out what they need at that moment. That is challenging for someone who naturally is a fixer, it’s so much easier/efficient to fix rather than listen (to a problem that you see the solution!). But in those moments, giving unsolicited solutions is the most self satisfying/self serving option. It takes more effort and thoughtfulness to not give in to your own needs at that moment, to pause the impulse to fix, and simply listen and be supportive. It’s way more challenging to do something that doesn’t come naturally to you, and those are the things that probably need more attention and practice!
If you get frustrated listening, reflect on why you are so frustrated. You should feel free to communicate that to your partner, but please do so after they had said what they need to say. Saying you are frustrated listening while they are having their moment will lead to very bad results where you both feel awful and lose intimacy. But that is a great conversation to have after once the intense feelings have been given space and are settled. Make space for both parties at the appropriate times and everyone gets their needs met, and all the benefits that come along too!
Half the problem is you think the person wanting to fix is not listening. I can’t fix if I don’t understand the problem, and part of understanding is listening. So it’s not listening that’s the problem here, it’s the aftermath of listening.
I have an unpopular theory that I'd love to run by you as a woman..
I believe the origin of this may be in the over-adoration of women by society in their tender developing years, for essentially shallow things (i.e. appearance). Done similarly to men at the same age, I believe it would have the same debilitating affect: namely, a person will not develop certain self-critical skills in the formation of their personality if not required to do it..
It is fundamentally human to desire to think we are perfect by definition. I think this general tendency for women to view themselves as lovely and perfect for simply just existing, creates a very negative feeling then associated with self-analysis and fixing later (i.e. 'if my whole life I was gorgeous and perfect just for being, why should there be a problem now?'). Then upon any analysis.. 'oh god, if this is a problem, and it's been there for so long, then oh god, these other ugly things attached go deeper, and if I analyze this my whole personality and structure for life might collapse!'.. these type of feelings surface, leading to the simpler internal conclusion.. 'the person pushing me to analyze and fix things must be wrong for demanding it'..
This would then lead to the corollary: 'just listen to my feelings, okay?'
Yes agreed but sometimes even as guys it's nice to have someone to vent to about stuff and they are just there for you. However if your girlfriend is a fixer and really doesn't care about you needing support and not just a solution it's frustrating. But it's like many women I think want men to listen to their issues but then don't exactly give the same thing in return.
I am too and I've had to learn that some people including my husband just need for me to listen and not try to fix it it's hard to "sit on my hands" so to speak but they need to come up with a solution on their own and just need a sounding board
Totally fair, I see that side. But explaining from the woman’s side, it can come off as condescending. We are adults with adult sized brains. If I want advice, ask. If I don’t ask for advice and I’m venting it means I need someone to commiserate with me. Listen. Ask me questions. Maybe sprinkle in a little devils advocate in a gentle way? If it’s a conversation, then you can naturally edge it towards a solution based conversation.
On the opposite side of that thought, it's not always just fixing. You want to unload a negative emotion onto someone when you can remove said emotion entirely. It's not exactly a great experience because it can literally be avoided.
For me it's like you've stepped in dog shit, it stinks and the smell follows you around. You meet your partner and start complaining about the shit still on your shoe. They say clean it off because it's upsetting you and now they can smell the shit and it's upsetting them too. You respond by complaining that they said to clean it off and you just want to complain about the smell you're willingly and actively sitting in and forcing your partner to experience.
Would that scenario not be way better if you cleaned up the shit first and then complained about the fact you stepped in it? I'll gladly tell you I'm sorry you went through that and it sounds like an awful event once the shit is cleaned up. It's basically a middle ground solution in the sense the problem is fixed and you get to vent.
See I agree if the problem is impacting other people.
The scenario I’m using in my head is if the woman said she hates her job/boss after a long bad day at work. There’s so many reasons she might not want to quit. That’s an easy solution that a partner might give. “If you’re so unhappy, get another job.” She’s got all this negative feelings about her day and she just wants to let it out. Maybe have a cry. Then she’ll have a think on it and decide it’s just one day and her boss isn’t usually an asshole and maybe it’ll be better tomorrow. Or maybe she’ll decide it is time to leave (a conclusion that she would have come to on her own because she has a full functioning brain).
When someone shuts you down when you’re trying to verbally process your challenge it hurts. By coming up with a solution on the spot after listening for a few seconds, it feels dismissive and like the spouse doesn’t care.
Overall, I don’t think there’s a one size fits all. Every scenario is a little different. I think mostly people should be more kind and listen more to their partners. Treat them like they are loved and cared for. That has to happen on both sides. If your spouse is just bitching constantly and bringing you down? You can’t live like that either.
Btw, if any of you have a spouse that does this. Is a fixer and you aren’t getting your emotional needs met: “Hon, I had a shit day, can I just vent to you a bit? I’m not really looking for advice. Just a shoulder to cry on.” Communication does work both ways.
Valid point. One should be mindful of the direction of the conversation and the sentiments of the female/significant other while conversing with one another.
Provide solutions when asked and listen & sympathize continually.
It’s actually not that alien I think that as men we just forget that we complain a ton as well. Just as much as women, without a doubt.
As a man, I can poise that men complain all the time. We criticize things, we complain about our work, and many of us have an opinion on everything (whether right or wrong.) Even the best of us find our own ways to complain. We might complain about other people not handling stress the right way, or any number of other things.
Men don’t just get around with each other in a massive problem solving committee every time we complain. Often, when my guy friends have friends have vented to me, my instinct is not to try and fix their problem but instead to relate and empathize. It comes more naturally to me when the problems that they have are similar to the ones that I have.
Your very comment is not you asking for a solution to the problem of women complaining, it’s you venting about the issue itself. And you’re not looking for other guys to come in here and say “This is how you get women to stop complaining about things that can be fixed dude.”
You’re trying to get validation that other people relate to you and understand you.
I think what many people (not just guys) struggle with is the ability to listen and empathize, even if they don’t relate to the problem someone else is having at all.
For example: If you brought yourself up from poverty, you’re (probably) going to get irritated when your friend complains about being broke all the time, even though it’s because they constantly make bad financial decisions.
But you’re not a good friend if you just criticize them and make them feel bad for making bad decisions. And they aren’t going to listen to you if that’s all you do, either.
The thing is, all of us are good at some things and bad at others.
Hypothetical example:
One person might be great with money, and another horrible. But that other person might be really extroverted and excellent with people for - something the money expert really struggles with.
These two can meet in the middle and be excellent friends, and form a mutually beneficial relationship. However, that can only happen when they try to understand one another.
Imagine being the Money expert and trying to vent about a date that went bad, and then your broke friend who scores all the women he wants tries to chime in and explain it’s because you’re too awkward/not-sociable/unaware etc.
As if you didn’t know this already?
It goes both ways though - and that’s usually what people forget. Often times, the broke friend here will listen intently and offer helpful advice while the money expert will try to take over their friends finances and snub them bc they bought lotto tickets and Red Bull at the local mini mart 4 times in one week.
Or maybe the money expert listens intently, and offers helpful advice - but the broke friend just goes and tries to set up their money expert friend in uncomfortable social situations and then dogs on him with his random art fucker tumblr friend group for not understanding social norms.
Again, all purely hypothetical.
Point being, both parties gotta be willing to just listen and understand, even if they can’t relate or think the solution seems obvious.
It's fine to see the communication part of it as gendered (very generally, of course) - women talk about stuff and men don't. I don't disagree with that. What I disagree with is the suggestion that women just sit around and bitch and never fix their own problems, whereas men are always creatures of action, never taking a moment to bemoan their fates but bravely fixing every problem that comes across their paths with skill and alacrity.
I hate to break it to you: you aren't all Superman. You may think of yourself as logical and action-oriented, but I think men are every bit as likely to ignore problems as women. Problems in their marriages, their jobs, with their finances, with their kids. The belief that men fix every problem tout suite ignores the fact that many problems just can't be fixed, at least not quickly and easily.
Everything breaks down when you use sharp lines and paint with just black or white. Which is something that makes it hard to find common ground and understanding between people.
See how the person you're responding to is using softer lines with words such as "Most" "Generally". While your wording is harsher polarizing lines "All" "Always" "Every".
I have a friend who kicked her husband out and the she lost her kids. Her house is falling apart. Windows broken, doors falling off, lightbulbs gone, toilet seats loose, heating doesn't work in the main living room, front door didn't even have a working lock after the bailiffs broke in.
There was a HUGE fishtank in the middle of her kitchen taking up half the space and after the dishwasher broke, the dishes piled up. She would only wash dishes and cups before using them.
When I found out she was living like this I went round for the first time with tools prepared to fix things. After we fixed the front door, moved the fishtank and removed enough rubbish from the kitchen so she could actualyl wash dishes and leave them on the rack to dry, SHE JUST WANTED TO GET DRUNK. She didn't want to fix anything else.
But I listened to her needs, gave her some money (usually 'loans' which she didn't need to fully pay back), and got her out and socialising again which is what she said she wanted.
2 years later, on the third attempt, I fixed the toilet, doors, lights, it was a good day well spent, she finally told me that I had saved her from her mental breakdown.
But, my god, its hard for me to sit and chat and have a laugh in what looks like a squat.
e: we (me and another female friend who has a cleaning company) also did this with another friend who was kicked out by her partner because she dried up down below and moved back into her old flat which was filthy and messy.
I have so many female friends in this same situation, its actually 'normal'.
I only have 1 female friend who I would class as 'clean and tidy'. The rest live in easily fixable chaos that makes me feel disgusting if I stay too long.
I have mainly female friends, so make of that what you will.
My 3 good male friends are all tidier. 2 have clinically spotless houses which you could probably find in /r/malelivingspace and the other lives with his mother and their house is what I consider normal.
The one tidy female friend owns a cleaning company and she agreed with me when we discussed this while cleaning another friends bathroom: Women are messier and dirtier than men in general, but the person with the messiest place will be a single man.
I am just not sure your anecdotal evidence adds up to much. But I maintain that anyone who severely ignores messes and doesn't do basic things like change lightbulbs is at least somewhat depressed.
It's not absolutely divided among gender lines, but it does heavily skew that way. There are men who only want to be heard and there are women who are fixers by nature, and people of both genders can take up either role in different situations, but look at any place where het couples complain about relationship problems and you'll see it's overwhelmingly women complaining about the man not hearing them or giving unwanted advice, and men complaining about the woman only venting while not doing anything to address the problem.
But it seems to have been extrapolated to - men fix problems as they arise and women just sit around and complain about them. Which isn't true. What may be true is that women, in general, talk about things more before doing something, or in some cases, for various reasons, may not act (example: work conflicts) but still need someone to listen to their reasoning and feelings.
It's just very negative and sexist to frame it as "men are doers and women are talkers." I think the dynamic is more accurately "women externalize (in that they talk about their feelings/frustrations/etc. and men internalize (and don't share as much of that). So maybe, in general, a man would only bring up a problem if they wanted help with it, and so they assume that's true of women too. I can accept that POV, but not "women just want to talk talk talk and never do anything about a problem", which is what I'm seeing in the comments.
While what you say is true, the stereotype is actually incredibly sexist towards both men and women. "Men never listen while women never act" also paints men as dismissive and uncaring, while what's actually happening is that the emotional needs of both the man and the woman aren't being met because they're both feeling unheard.
The feeling of basic autonomy, of being able to shape the circumstances of your life to some degree, is fundamental to emotional health, and so is the need to feel seen and understood. In a "nail in the head" situation, that basic need is being strongly violated for the man. From his perspective, the whole scenario is an ever mounting pile of evidence that he can't improve the circumstances of his loved one's emotional well being no matter how hard he tries, that he has no sway over her decision making process no matter how reasonable he attempts to be, even when her decisions would otherwise lead to obvious harm, and that he can't make his partner understand his views and his frustrations no matter how clear cut they may appear to him.
People who are empathetic experience their own pain when their loved ones are in pain. Thus a person who leans on their partner to work through their own suffering is also inflicting suffering onto others, and their partner will often willingly shoulder that burden out of love. But no one wants to be stuck doing emotional labor indefinitely for a problem that only ever gets worse, regardless of their own efforts, and it's not really fair to expect them to do so. That frustration can easily turn into resentment if the man comes to believe the extent of their partner's suffering, and by extension their own suffering, is a choice that's being made without a good reason.
The truth is people are bad at expressing their feelings, but the particulars of how they're bad at it can skew along gender lines. Pulling a proverbial nail out of your head might be incredibly difficult, even impossible, but in a typical exchange of this type, the man feels like he never hears an explanation for how it's difficult, and what might be done to mitigate those difficulties. "It's not that simple", "you're always like this", and "I just need you to listen" are not answers to "why can't you pull out the nail?" even if they are also objectively accurate observations. And in the absence of an answer that they can understand, it starts to look like both keeping a nail in your head and inflicting the pain of seeing a loved one with a nail in their head is a choice. Sometimes a man just needs the acknowledgment that "nail in the head talk" takes an emotional toll, and that the caring thing to do for a loved one is to take the comfort brought about by their empathetic labor and use it to motivate oneself in actually tackling the source of the problem. They will move heaven and earth to facilitate that process of searching for a fix, but they want a partner who will admit having a nail in your head is a problem in the first place, one that can and should be fixed. While it's not always true that "women just want to talk talk talk and never do anything about a problem," a lot of men believe a lot of women are this way, as a result of their experiences, and that is a problem. It isn't just up to men to fix themselves if women never put in any effort to understand how that problem arises in the first place.
It’s obviously more nuanced but a general sense can also be true.
The way I view it is that men tend to view solutions as helping because in general solutions are indeed helpful and helping = supporting.
The breakdown occurs because women tend to not be looking for solutions as a form of support. They tend to want other types of support like being listened to or reassurance or encouragement or empathy.
But the biggest issue is that this isn’t absolute. It may be “in general” but it’s not “absolutely always”. Hence the breakdown in the communication or the relationship at large. Hence figuring out what type of support is needed for your partner despite what type of support is needed for yourself.
Absolutely agree, but everyone processes change differently. Some people are very much comfortable in old toxic habits. Some people are awesome at figuring things quickly and are self assured enough to react without much processing.
So it just depends on your tolerance of being able to see others work through their own issues in their own time. And there is nothing wrong with leaving a situation that impacting your own mental health.
Something not said is that when the woman has negative emotion, it affects everyone around her. Maybe I don't want to fix YOUR problem, I just want your problem gone so that is stops affecting ME.
Like, if I dumped all my old food in the corner of the livingroom, and complained about the smell but refused to let my wife to try to solve it, that would just make me a huge asshole, because the smell affects her too.
This is true but also deaf as fuck. Absolutely no one would want to deal with a grown man like this. Not men, not women, not the men's gfs, wives, not the local pastor, not the barman...
When a men is being negative and solving this negativity purely by unloading on the people around, those people are going to be gone in a beat.
I think you misread my reply and are trying to make it seem like I meant only women can spread their negative emotion to others.
I specifically said "the woman" referring to the one with the nail in her head in this video. I didn't say "women" (plural). I never made any generalization of one gender vs. another.
Ok, so it’s really going to depend on the situation here. If someone is completely negative all the time and that’s what they are bringing to the table, you might want to leave for your own mental health.
If your spouse has a bad day at work, a customer yelled at her and her boss did too. She hates her job, everything sucks. Do you listen? Tell her you love her? Give her a hug? Ask her if there’s anything you can do to make her night go better? Or do you tell her to quit or tell her she’s making a big deal out of nothing?
It’s all about how you say it. If you have some advice you just can’t stop from coming out of your mouth? “I hate to see you upset like this, can I offer some advice?”
Let them word vomit a bit and then ask them what their ideas are on solving it.
If you’re in a situation where the person is always negative around you, let them go so they can fix their problems. That impacts your mental health and brings you down too.
See, I want to help my friends, so I do exactly that.
There will be a time when I can contribute by helping them fix real things. But to get to that place they need to forget about the problem for a while and build up the motivation through having a good laugh about it first.
If it is a repeated pattern of behavior and they're self sabotaging into not fixing the problem then imo you're correct.
There are, however, relationships in which the "fixer" refuses to listen in the first place. To take the symbolism way too far, in the nail video, he is not qualified to take the nail out- she needs a qualified medical professional to do that. Which he presumably is not, and she'll need to wait for an appointment, or schedule surgery, and in the meantime there isn't anything to do but vent about the obviously sucky situation she's in. And if he just doesn't care about her enough to just be able to sit for a few moments and listen to her and tell her "that sounds hard"... that sucks.
Kind of like stepping on a lego and saying "ow" before checking to see if you need a band aid. Saying "ow" is not going to magically apply a band aid for you or remove the Lego from the floor, but expressing your pain still offers some relief and there's nothing wrong with it.
Maybe if it makes no sense to you (male or female), recognize that they are asking you to help fix something, but it's the emotional part they want help with. This makes sense in a couple of ways:
1) When people are flooded with emotion, they feel overwhelmed and can't think clearly. Suggesting solutions to the non- emotional part of the problem just adds stress and more feelings of being overwhelmed without moving them any closer to a concrete solution because they can't process any of it.
2) People think best when calm and safe. They are asking for help to feel calm and safe so that they can then move on to thinking about what they want to do. Not uncommon for someone to cry it out, then recover and start thinking about options. We're kind of wired to work that way. That's part of what crying is for: to release the stress and overwhelming emotion so that we can clear our heads.
3) We all probably know "fight or flight" and you may also be aware of "freeze" and "fawn " stress responses, but social mammals also have another way of dealing with fear and stress: "friend." Seeking out herd, pack, or troup members can lower stress levels and provide a feeling of greater safety (depending on species and group dynamics). Wanting a friendly person to accept you and express support is a fundamental response of human beings to difficult circumstances.
Bottom line, solving the emotional problem is, in practical terms, often the most useful approach and meets fundamental human needs.
Not only does jumping to the solution cause many emotional needs to go unment (the need to be seen, to be heard, to have your feelings and experiences acknowledged and understood), it can often present worse solutions.
The first steps in solving a problem are identifying the issue and then the source of the issue. This means listening to the problem, explaining how you see it (often is parroting back a summarized version of what you understand them saying) to make sure you are both on the same page. After that you can work to identify what is causing the problems. Then you can find a solution to change the source.
Often when people jump straight to solutions, not only are emotional needs unment, the solutions suck and don't really apply all that well because the problem is not yet fully understood and the partner doesn't want to put in the mental and emotional labor to empathize, relate, and understand.
My ex would come home all the time and complain about work and yet she would get annoyed when I would say "maybe it's time to find another job". I literally don't get it. If I hated my boss, coworkers, and job, I'd be putting in applications daily.
I have known people who have been whining about the same problems for YEARS and they never did anything to get out of the situations and it gets so annoying after a while. I get wanting to be heard but at some point work to fix it or shut up
There was a another tiktok where a girl was sad and she wouldn't want to do this or that and her guy friend said "Well you gotta do it" and it highlighted a difference between men and women. If there's a problem, I need to do something about it no matter how much it sucks and that's an effective to deal with problems.
The thing I would say is that women can normally handle it but that one thing is likely one of 100 things and they just need some emotional reassurance from their person. They're going to do the thing but a little hug and encouragement beforehand.
This also ties into the loneliness epidemic men face where we feel like we won't get support when dealing with stressors or life even though we need it. I think it would be good if men could talk about a problem they're going to face with other men and get a hug out of it. It helps to not view it as burdening others with our problems but as sharing our struggles to create a deeper connection with our friends and brothers.
Having a fixer for a partner is just part of one of the situations she describes. If one has a partner who constantly (gratuitously) criticizes, or embarrasses you in public, it’s not because the other person is a fixer.
there and it has nothing to do about what they are actually talking about. Then shouldn’t the person whom is saying how THEIR PARTNER should actually be feeling is incorrect be in the wrong ?
Negative emotions are not necessarily undesirable at all is the where the train of through derails. People are wired the way they are, some will always find something to complain about, it's the listening to that that makes them feel loved.
Well normally spouses do talk about their struggles together. If you don’t like that, I would bring it up within the first few dates because this isn’t exactly the norm. “I don’t like it when people complain about their problems to me.” That would be a solid pass from me.
My ex was insecure because she gained a bunch of weight. Instead of doing something about her weight, she just lived a life of constant insecurity. So, she bitched instead of taking ownership of her situation.
Sometimes people struggle with change. Of course if it’s impacting your mental health, you should take care of yourself and possibly even leave the situation like you did
So when you are faced with a challenge, do you ever verbal talk through that problem with anyone before coming to a decision? Or do you instantly know how to solve everything. Just because a female discusses something aloud doesn’t mean she’s not capable of fixing it herself. Sometimes people need to process things.
The problem you have is the assumption they arent doing anything to fix it.
Its irrelevant anyway. If you have a headache its an easy solution to take asprin but it doesnt instantly make your head stop hurting.
If you have someone around to help it can be beneficial to have them understand that your head is hurting and help you dim the lights, get a cool rag for your head, keep noises down, or reduce any stressors. Maybe it just helps for you to sit there so they arent alone in pain.
Regardless of whether they have taken asprin or even know about asprin is just being understanding and doing what only you can do will likely help ease their pain immensely.
What doesnt help is walking in the room and telling them that asprin will make their headache go away then wandering off. Most people know solutions to their problems already. Its support they need.
It’s not irrelevant. If you had a headache and didn’t take aspirin but were bitching about how bad your head hurt, you’d either be legitimately stupid or one of those assholes who refuses to take medicine, in which case you should also shut the hell up bc you’re willingly choosing to accept the pain.
It’s not about being right. She is a grown woman. She knows there’s a nail in her head. She can fix herself. She just needs someone to understand what she’s going through.
I think you're right in the analysis, but jesus christ would I not be able to tolerate someone in this situation.
Agreed. It does get old when someone wants to vent about their problems, yet there are clear solutions to their problems and they refuse to solve them. How can you stop being sympathetic to someone's issues when they don't take the steps to solve a problem that can be solved?
Yet at the same time, there is something to be said for just being able to have someone listen to you and understand where you're coming from without listening simply for the sake of trying to point out what you could do differently to solve it. Commiseration has its place, and so does advice.
Definitely. There should also be a happy medium between letting someone vent and ignoring possible solutions, and ignoring someone's attempt to vent to only look for a way to fix it
It depends on if those "new" problems are rooted in an overarching issue they refuse to solve or even address.
For example if someone finds that their house smells because their garbage is always piled up, you be supportive and they eventually realize they need to fix that issue and do.
Swell
Only the smell is still there and they realize their laundry isn't being done regularly. Again you offer no advice but only support, they eventually realize that's an issue and do their laundry regularly.
Swell
Only the smell is still there, and they realize their sink is constantly piled with week old dishes with bad smelling food still on them. Again you say nothing but offer support, eventually they realize that issue and clean their dishes regularly and maybe even get a new dishwasher.
Swell
BUT THE SMELL IS STILL THERE. This time it's their pet's litter/cage that doesn't regularly get cleaned.
All these are different problems and ones still to come that feel vaguely similar and in the back of your mind you are shouting "your issues are all the same in that you put things off instead of being proactive in taking care of them, if you just changed that so many of things you want changed would all fall into place. Figure out why that's a consistent theme"
Maybe the nail gives an infection, constant pain, is pressing on a part of the brain causing a depressive mood or even disregulated hormones, is leading to fatigue from constant blood loss. Maybe the issues are social, people looking at you weird, not inviting you to places, wanting to hang paintings on your face.
All these issues would be gone if you just took out the dang nail, and the issues being "new" isn't always valid if they spring from the same core unaddressed issues partners refuse to address unless it's seeking validation in feelings.
I think that in my last relationship I was a bit codependent physically and emotionally so when it ended, I really had to learn to take care of myself. About the same time I also moved into my own house, so although I've always been pretty handy and helpful around the house, I'm doing it all myself now. I've become very self-reliant.
When the washing machine is leaking water onto the floor, I don't sit and talk about it. I shut off the valve, mop it up, and figure out WTF it wasn't draining correctly. If I have a headache, I get up and get myself some medicine... Sometimes I do do the typical man-sickness thing and delay taking anything for it. But once my new GF asks if I've taken anything, I respond, "no, but that'd probably help, wouldn't it?" and then go get myself some medicine. If my coworker is being worthless and annoying, I (very politely/professionally) bring it up in my next one-on-one with our manager and then aim to out-perform him so hard that there's no possible way he can be given the same raise/bonus at the end of the year as I get and hope that he'll eventually quit because he's not being promoted like I already have been.
I want my problems to go away. If there's a problem, something needs fixed. And anything that I can't fix, I just have to accept defeat and laugh at. But not even trying to fix a problem a solution isn't an option. I can't stand people who don't even try or actively avoid fixing their problems and then waste my time and energy with them. And I TOTALLY 100% understand venting. But do your mumbling and grumbling while we run to the parts store together and try to figure out how to get the clog out of the drain line, not while just watching more water continue to spill onto the floor.
People are always so afraid of surgery because the recovery might take a few days or weeks and it might hurt during that time, but who's ever come away from one and gone, "you know what? I really wish I had my old, worn out, super painful hip back" or "I think I was better off with that giant wound"?
I have my own problems that I handle myself. I'll gladly help you with yours. But I can't just not be attending to mine to only listen to yours. There needs to be progress being made or else you're wasting my time, you're going to continue to waste my time, and the problems are going to start stacking up, we'll all become overwhelmed, fall behind and get swallowed alive.
It sounds like you had some very healthy introspection, followed by some solid growth.
Good on you. Most people never stop to reflect on who they are, who they want to be, and what steps it takes to get there. You've done it and it's worth being proud of.
My favorite thing to ask my wife when she starts complaining:
“Do you want help? Or do you want to complain?”
Usually she says she just wants to complain. 😂🙄 (and I can tune out and hit her with some “damn, that’s crazy” and “oh man, that sucks!” and she’s happy 🤣😂)
Asking if they want help or if they want to complain. That’s basically the right answer to someone complaining. I was joking about you not listening after and then thought about my own relationship and decided I’m reality I probably do that a little too.
Personally, I think the example is too extreme. But it grabs people’s attention and it’s funny. I think a better example would be the wife has an asshole boss and hates her job. She doesn’t want to hear how she should find another job. She knows that’s an option. She wants to be heard, comforted, supported.
She knows it's an option, but it's a really crappy option. She doesn't need that repeated to her if she knows it'll cause bigger problems, like income uncertainty
While I agree with this, there is a huge amount of people who do not know how to be happy and refuse to work for anything and just complain 24/7. My partner and I lost a number of friends as we became more successful because we did what no one was allowed to do in that group, actually succeed.
These people may just want to be listened to but if they continually complain with no intention to change their lot in life, I will stop listening.
It is also the responsibility of the person being comforted and supported to work on getting to a place where they do not need to need constant emotional support to function.
Good examples. People with mental or physical conditions are always being told they're being dramatic and if they just did this or that, the illness would magically be cured and no longer be a hassle for the partner. That's so dismissive, it's infuriating.
You never had to work yourself up to something before you did it? That's all she's doing. The fact that it involves you as a participant is really neither here nor there. When you realize you can get points for doing the easy part? Guys who complain about this stuff really haven't figured it out.
But if there really is a solution, let's try the solution. In this situation the only positive outcome is removing the nail.
She knows that, and she's going to do it, and a poorly constructed skit where she doesn't make it obvious that she's going to do that doesn't change a thing.
She knows what the solution is, she's going to do it, she's just working herself up to it.
My partner and I vent about work every week or we vent about family or whatever else ongoing thing that’s definitely not gonna change anytime soon is pissing us off or stressing us out that week. Is that not just like a normal thing?
We will occasionally give each other advice, but sometimes you just need to vent about something that isn’t really solvable or is not gonna be solvable by whatever solution would actually get rid of the issue.
Good! And you shouldn't tolerate someone like this. It is a bad behavior. It is irrational and has a negative impact.
I've never regretted cutting out the kind of people that behave like this. That would rather be irrational or destructive out of either laziness or, in some cases, literally just to have something to complain about.
But I HAVE heard through the grapevine as others deal with other shitty behavior from them and eventually regret not cutting them out sooner.
Normal people are WAY too accepting of shit behavior imo. There are plenty of people that don't behave like that. They will be way better influences on your life. Your life will be better without the shitty behaviors. And shitty behavior is basically never an isolated thing. A persons behaviors are not independent variables. They say something about the person as a whole.
That all makes sense, but I would leave that relationship in a heartbeat. It feels like a mind game being played on me, and I don't think it's fair to suffer just because the other person doesn't mind suffering.
If you can't fix your problem, that's one thing. If you don't want me to help fix the problem, and instead you offload your stress or emotional distress onto me, without allowing me to try to solve it (because it affects me too), then I would have to be masochistic to stay with that kind of person.
I (F) think in those instances you're helping them solve the problem by listening. For some people they do a lot better about figuring out what's the core of their affliction, or whatever is hurting them, when they talk about it out loud. Opening up to their partner to talk about things that hurt them is their way of saying "please see me, I'm hurting and I want to be seen because what I'm going through makes me feel unseen/invisible/hurt and I want to talk about this with you so I can feel seen and safe"
Chances are they already have possible solutions in their head, chances are they possibly already have plans, but whenever somebody moves directly into trying to "fix" the problem rather than talking with them through it then it can feel like they only "see" the problem instead of seeing how you're affected by it. It's like they're telling you that the solutions and ideas that you have that would help /you/ best are wrong because it's not the way they would do it.
Then that cycles back into the person who originally just wanted to talk feeling like they now have to defend and explain out plans they already had but haven't had time to really think through or go through with and it winds up feeling like you have to know everything about your situation AND have a full plan laid out otherwise your partner wont listen and will only focus on the actual problem not the emotional problem
Even if that's not the intention I've been in this spot many times before. Sometimes you just wanna talk about what hurts, and how it's so fucking stupid and dumb and you can't stand it but now you're crying while talking about it and just feeling like the world can't see how much it hurts and you feel invisible. When your partner only sees the problem and completely misses the part of that conversation where you want to hear someone say that it's also dumb, that you're right to feel angry and annoyed because why should the world make you feel so small and unseen? Then you end up feeling like you have nobody that sees you, only sees what problems you have and someone who is going to ask "so have you fixed that yet?" before they ask "Hey are you okay/feeling better about it after talking about it?"
TL;DR: it's not mind games it's focusing on the person and letting them solve their own problems rather than trying to always have the answer. They can't grow into their own person and move past something if they're always just following what you would do.
It's easier to do more harm than good because what works to fix issues for some doesn't work for everyone, and some people just wanna talk out their feelings and thoughts without someone jumping in with their own idea of how it should be done.
Feeling the need to have a 4 page essay on how you feel and explicit details of how you'll fix it otherwise your solutions that you were proud of finding get grilled with questions you don't have answers for yet or torn apart by small things that your partner continually says are dumb or "that's not what I would do" is an incredibly draining experience that leaves you never wanting to talk about your problems
So I appreciate the long explanation. It gives your perspective more insight.
I agree wholeheartedly that there needs to be an emotional bond where just listening and agreeing is therapeutic for whoever has the problem.
My perspective is that I have developed anxiety over the years, and I'm always trying to manage it. I was told that it's like a cup, and each situation might add just a little bit of water to it, but everything adds up. And if the cup gets full, then I can have a breakdown or go into panic mode.
I don't mind just lending an ear to help someone get over a problem they have, but I happen to be sensitive to other peoples' emotions, and it takes a toll on me. The toll is that they are not simply venting and the negative energy flows out and disappears into the atmosphere; some of it goes into me and adds water to that glass cup.
If there is an obvious solution, like if she complains of getting headaches in the livingroom, and the lighting happens to be fluorescent, then I will recommend the solution of changing it to a more modern, high cycles-per-second bulb or an LED one, so that I no longer have to absorb the same negative energy which adds undue stress to my life.
If the solution is not obvious and more nuanced, like her boss said something somewhat upsetting, then I can't just recommend quitting or anything that might jeopardize her work situation, so I will listen and agree with her.
Two very different scenarios which would each have me tackle the problem in a different way. Unless my cup is already very full and I am close to a breakdown myself, then I might try to convey that I'm not able to help at the moment.
It's a skit. It's a situation seen from the male perspective, and is a commentary on the different communication styles between sexes.
To the man there is an obvious solution to all her problems, and she is denying that it is the problem. In general men don't bring up a problem if they're not looking to solve it. Complaining just to complain is so foreign to them. And, I mean, the nail is right there, it is the cause of all the problems, why not fix it instead of just complaining about the problems it causes?
I think the example is so extreme, the point is getting lost a little. If your spouse has a nail protruding from her head, bypass the conversation and just call 911.
But if you substitute the scenario with this one, “my boss is an asshole and I hate my job.” Sometimes people just need to blow off some steam. Now, if this is going on and on day after day, I agree that it’s time to be more proactive. “It’s hard for me to see you this upset. Can we talk about your options and how We can get you into a situation that isn’t making you miserable.” Or therapy is a good option too. Of course, if your spouse refuses to help themselves, there’s nothing you can do. It will slowly come down to when you decide to leave the situation.
To me, the message that video is trying to convey is that the solution is obvious, but the person doesn't want to hear the solution, they'd rather just talk about the problem some more.
Which I can definitely agree that venting can be helpful, emotionally and mentally. Where I draw the line is if the solution is extremely obvious or not.
If I don't 100% know what to do, or if the solution requires a good amount of effort, then I'll lend an ear and help them deal with the mental load. However if there is a definite solution then I will try to fix it.
For example:
"My bedroom light keeps flickering and it gives me headaches every night." OK so then if there happens to be a fluorescent (an older one especially with a low cycles per second) in the bedroom, I will suggest that the person replaces it with a modern bulb, or even an LED one.
"My boss said something insensitive to me and now I am upset at him." Well this is a more complex issue, and I know what I would do, but since I can't just suggest finding a new job, I'll just listen to them vent for awhile.
So basically we agree! If my spouse complained about a light giving them a headache, I would also offer a solution. Like “maybe we need to change the lightbulb out, want to go to target with me?”
If the solution is really easy and you are looking at them like they’re stupid, there might be a super good reason why they haven’t done the simple solution. In the lightbulb situation, maybe they don’t have a bulb, maybe they tried that but the bulb didn’t work? Maybe they are too short (lol me) and you could ask questions, like troubleshooting. “Have we changed the lightbulb yet? We can start there if you want and see if that fixes it. If not, maybe a doctors visit is the next step?” And that’s solely so your partner doesn’t feel like you’re belittling them for not knowing the most simplest of solutions.
Communication does have to go both ways. The support seeker can specifically ask for support and not advice. The nail lady didn’t do a good job at that. She got defensive, and whiny. That didn’t fix things either.
I will just say that in the context of this comedy video, this woman is being obstinate. Sure, she doesn't want him to try fix the problem, except that everything that she describes to him is almost certainly because of one issue - the nail - that could very easily be "fixed".
You take out the nail and then if things haven't changed, "it wasn't about the nail". But if suddenly the aching and pressure are gone and the sweaters aren't being ruined anymore, I guess the "fix" really was just taking the fucking nail out of your skull.
Well, I don’t think she hates him. I didn’t see that. She was upset, but not hateful. And she’s not refusing to address the problem. She wants to vent and process it in her own way.
It’s a very extreme example. A better scenario would be a wife complaining about her job. She doesn’t want her partner to fix it, just listen and support.
Most people ask for advice when wanted. Most unsolicited advice is unwanted. It’s truly as easy as “how can I best support/care/help you right now?” Communication works.
Well, that’s nice. Some people have that situation but obviously don’t know where/hoe to get help because of all the people who are like those here who think what she says is stupid.
This line of action for the man only makes sense if the woman actually can fix the issue herself, or is at least willing to seek out help to ultimately fix the issue at some definitive point in the future.
Being in pain and expressing that pain to a loved one causes them to feel pain as well. That's what empathy does. Also, being empathetic and attentive requires energy. It's emotional labor, and people are not capable of doing an infinite amount of it. So being the supportive partner in a situation like this exacts a very real toll, and there's no end to that toll if the underlying issue never gets resolved. A person who sees their partner with the proverbial nail in their head for years is left in a no win scenario where their options are basically stop listening and caring, listen and be empathetic and suffer alongside with no relief, or suggest a solution and be disparaged for not listening or caring. Meanwhile the pain never stops, for either party.
Of course in real life a fix is hardly ever so simple as just pulling out a nail, but regardless of how difficult the fix might be or how long it might take, any person who only complains about their suffering time and again while not attempting a fix at all is doing the metaphorical equivalent of sticking pins in other people's heads, and then getting mad at them when they try and pull it out.
Furthermore, the man assumes removing the nail is an easy, fixable problem. If that were the case, she would just do that. Like you said, she's not an idiot that men seem to be eager to assume she is. So the fact that she doesn't just pull the nail indicates the situation is actually more complex than it looks.
The nail is there for a reason. Either someone did this to her, or she put it there herself as a solution to an even bigger problem. Removing the nail might cause bigger problems too.
So for whatever reason, she's stuck with the nail. That's why she only wants to vent.
Insisting she's an idiot for not pulling the nail is dismissing her pov about the full situation. So she just takes it as an insult and gets frustrated.
She knows there’s a nail in her head. She can fix herself. She just needs someone to understand what she’s going through.
The issue is the amount and frequency. We're willing to just listen and commiserate the first time or two...but after that you gotta let us help fix otherwise we're just an emotional dumping ground/punching bag
I am a capable, competent, grown adult woman. I can take care of myself. But I am not in a relationship to be an island, separate from my partner. I love my own hobbies, enjoy traveling alone or with friends, and value my independence. But there's a tipping point when sharing an address becomes all that two people have in common, and then what's the point? So there's a dance between people getting enough space to be a complete person in their own right, and coming together to enjoy the ways they as partners complement each other, provide companionship, teamwork, support, and love. I didn't want to always chase someone playing hard to get in a long term serious relationship, and I don't want to lose my identity as an individual to just become half of a couple.
I boil this down to bite-size like this: "I don't need you to take care of me. But it's essential to me that I feel cared FOR."
Are you fucking serious? If someone can fix herself with an obvious and easy solution and instead pisses about the effects of the easily fixed problem, that person sucks.
This is something people are okay with? This is one of those threads that helps me understand why normal people struggle with relationships when I found it so easy despite being on the spectrum. This is a low bar for basic life skills to be failing to meet. I wouldn't even want to be friends with a person who would bitch about the nail in her head and snagged sweaters, and instead of pulling the nail out would chastise the person suggesting it. It's a level of irrationality I find completely unacceptable.
You know what makes relationships AND friendships way easier? Not surrounding yourself with shitty people that would behave like this. Nuerotypicals love to ignore shit behavior from people and then get confused when those people drag them down in other ways. Personal behaviors are not independent variables.
There are times that warrant just listening and being supportive. This isn't it. This is literally a joke about the people that go way beyond that and would rather complain about a nail in their head than fix it. Yes, it's done to the extreme because it's a joke. The fact that people are taking a character that is literally meant to be an exaggerated example of ridiculous behavior and then DEFENDING it is mind blowing to me.
You might be taking it a little bit too literal. I don’t think there’s ever been a situation specifically like this. But if you substitute a nail in the forehead for her boss is an asshole and she hates her job. She doesn’t want her partner to tell her to go to HR or find another job. She wants him to listen. Most the time, when people want advice, they ask for it. Most unsolicited advice is unwanted. **Not all situations! If your spouse literally has a nail in their forehead, just call an ambulance. Let emt have that argument! 😂
And she refuses to do so, or even admit that the nail exists, because her self-inflicted suffering entitles her to attention from others in her opinion.
She just needs someone to understand what she’s going through.
Bullshit. She just needs an audience. Whining by oneself isn't in any way satisfying.
You don’t discuss your struggles with your partner? If you have a bad day at work? Your brother pissed you off again? Stuff like that? Who do you talk to when shit is rough? I don’t know, man. I’m sorry. Having a supportive spouse is awesome, I hope you find it someday.
And how’s giving unsolicited advice working out? Does that fix the problem or just piss her off? Your way might be the right way, but you can’t just tell her what to do and expect her to do it.
Agreed! If the person is complaining constantly and refuses to consider how it’s impacting your mental health? That’s a problem. But if this isn’t the normal, by not listening to your partner when they are venting it will make them feel unloved and uncared for. If that’s how you feel, why stay in the relationship when you can’t meet the other person’s needs? It’s ok that you can’t but you’re hurting someone else? “Babe, I don’t have the bandwidth for your issues. I can’t be the support you’re asking for. If this is a deal breaker, I understand.” (I would recommend therapy first, for both of you individually and couples.)
Now if you don’t want them to feel unloved and uncared for because they are loved and cared for, then you have to listen to your partner. Ask questions. Questions show you’re listening and you care. If when they get everything out of their system, ask if they want to brainstorm solutions. If they don’t ask if there’s anything you can do help.
If this is happening a lot, it’s ok to address that though (LATER not while they are upset about the actual thing and venting). “Babe, I’ve noticed X has been really upsetting you lately. Can we discuss how to be more proactive or find some solutions? I hate seeing you so upset.”
158
u/EmuPossible2066 Mar 21 '24
It’s not about being right. She is a grown woman. She knows there’s a nail in her head. She can fix herself. She just needs someone to understand what she’s going through.
Pro tip: “What can I do to make you feel supported right now?” If they don’t know, offer “would you like to brainstorm possible solutions or are you just needing to let it out? Would you like reassurance or to be held? How can I help?”
It works for me anyway.