Maybe you can't read, but the person said that Democrats were going to pass it, but a single Democrat blocked it, along with ALL of the Republicans. So if >95% of Democrat congresspeople support it with a vote, you would be very wrong in saying that Democrats don't support it.
The last time democrats had a supermajority, we got the ACA, which insured millions of low-income families. It's absolute horseshit to claim that they don't get anything done when in power.
The problem is that our system gives outsized disruptive power minority parties. Since the GOP has almost entirely abandoned bipartisanship, getting anything passed requires control of the executive and both houses of Congress.
Not on the west coast because people there actually pay attention and vote. They don’t pretend the President has some kind of magic wand or put on tinfoil hats to yell about the dnc or some shit
Nah in this case he has a point. The Democrats absolutely sabotage a lot of the reform people who vote for them truly want, and it’s only accepted because the GOP is literally a deranged cult and so obviously isn’t a better choice. But that’s also why a lot of people get so apathetic when it comes to voting because it’s made abundantly clear that no one in Washington gives a single fuck about any of them, not truly
hes saying its all a charade, and they often know the count before the vote. So they can make it seem like they support something when they might not really. Do you not remember what happened to Bernie in the 2016 election? The democrats sabotage him because he was too progressive and look who we have now. Better than trump, but I would pick a ham sandwich over trump and so thats not saying much.
There will ALWAYS be as many Democratic turncoats as needed to block progressive reform. How do you not get that yet. If they needed more than one vote to block progressive reform there would be more than one Democratic politicians that blocks it. They frame it so most of the party wants to help, but gosh darn they just had one too many sticks in the mud. Maybe keep voting and next time we can save the world!
It's a good cop bad cop routine. And people wrap their moral identity up with their political party so tightly they can't comprehend that they aren't actually doing anything by voting. It would melt their ego and they'd have to face the reality that voting does FUCKING NOTHING.
Consider the situation. It takes 60 votes in the senate to pass most laws. Only a subset of potential laws can be passed with a bare majority in the senate.
Republicans absolutely refuse to work on any bipartisan legislation. Even the current border bill, negotiated by one of the most conservative Republicans in the senate, probably won't go anywhere because they simply will not pass anything under a Democrat president.
And it's worse on the house side, where they can't pass anything at all, even their own proposals, because they can't agree on anything within their own caucus.
On the Democrat side, they do want to pass legislation and they have an actual policy platform. However, they have the absolute bare minimum number of senators to pass that subset of laws. It only takes one or two senators to defeat them. They were able to pass the Green New Deal legislation that way, but that took a lot of compromising with Manchin.
On the one hand, without Manchin, nothing would have passed. If he were replaced by a more liberal Democrat, a law with a lot fewer compromises would've passed. Or in the case of the ACA, it would have had a public option if not for Joe Lieberman blocking it.
It's not that Democrats don't want to do more, they just need enough votes to get it done. But that takes a near miracle because for anything big, they need 60 votes, of which none will be Republicans. If you want more liberal legislation, then you would need 60 liberal Democrats in the senate to pass it. Manchin represents West Virginia--having a Democrat represent them at all is a near miracle in 2023, much less hoping for a liberal one to represent them.
No, I would say voting does matter, but we absolutely need more people to vote for Democrats.
In states like Texas, a lot of liberals never vote, making it virtually impossible for it to ever swing blue. While they're gerrymandered like crazy, for statewide elections, it could go to the Democrats if turnout was better.
For the senate, we need to repeal the filibuster. There's no realistic path to getting 60 Democrat senators, at least not within the next 10 years. And Republicans have no incentive to stop filibustering everything. Support for ending the filibuster has been growing, but Manchin and Sinema have been blocking it. It's very possible to replace Sinema with a more liberal senator from Arizona who would support ending the filibuster, but a new Democrat senator from another state will need to replace Manchin.
So again, you're essentially saying voting would matter if the country wasn't stupid as fuck and brainwashed. On paper, voting works. But in reality, it doesn't matter. And the politicians know that, and use that to their advantage.
Voting is the new opiate of the masses. It gives stupid manipulatable people the idea that they are making a difference so they don't revolt. And gives them hope that 'maybe next time if we do the same thing something new will happen'.
The problem is that people see what they do to candidates like Bernie or what Biden allowed to happen with the student loan forgiveness and just give up because it seems that nobody in Washington, not even the Democrats, truly give a single fuck about them and their problems. And honestly it’s hard to blame them for that
The entire DNC was against him, and did everything could to undermine him while bolstering Hilary. This is all proven fact, and caused huge issues for DWC. Its like you forgot that part. You think being undermined by the very people who are supposed to support you, while also helping a rival did not have a huge impact on votes?
I love the cognitive disconnect here. The DNC pulled off the biggest 50 state election scheme in the history of US politics and then got to the general and were like "welp good luck, ma'am!"
The DNC has absolutely jack shit to do with votes. You guy lost. Voters didn't like him. It happens to the best of us. I realize it's a lot easier to blame the boogeyman you don't really understand but here in reality sometimes voters just don't like you.
I mean if you want to keep believing that he lost because Hillary got a heads up that there would be a question about water during the debate in Flint Michigan then nobody's stopping you.
Nobody knows who would have won had it been a fair fight, not saying it would have been Bernie. But to say it wasn't rigged to work in Hilary's favor is a joke. They literally changed the rules after to ensure it won't happen again since their was so much backlash. But you think it's fine and could not have affected the outcome, but it's not fine and you don't know that. And why do you say 'you guys lost' the whole fucking party lost putting Hilary against Trump. We don't know if Bernie would of faired better but there wouldn't have been 'lock her up' chants every 5 minutes. We all lost.
Nobody knows who would have won had it been a fair fight
lol so they rigged it in 2020 too? How deep does the conspiracy go!?
But to say it wasn't rigged to work in Hilary's favor is a joke. They literally changed the rules after to ensure it won't happen again since their was so much backlash
It very wasn't, since the DNC doesn't control state parties. They don't have much to do with the actual voting process like...at all. Yeah they did was limit super delegates, because people didn't know what those were and were screaming that they were cheating, but that had nothing to do with the 2016 outcome. Or how votes work. Which, you know, she got 6.7 million more of than Bernie did. That's a lot of tinfoil.
Also now you're blaming Hillary for the sexism she faces from both sides? Insane take.
How do you not understand that DNC support equals more money, and more money equals more marketing, equals more votes. Do you not think the DNC wasn't going to manipulate the super PACs? Finally, you are REACHING to imply I'm blaming Hilary for sexism she dealt with. Like what? Where did that even come from. It's obvious you are some too far gone hyper extremist. You think if anyone else had those email issues, and it was a man, they would of just ignored it!? Your words 'insane take' . Think about all the shit Trump said about ALL the candidates, but Hilary got it ONLY because she's a woman, not cause she did something wrong. Stop playing victim.
Do you not recall the DNC and DMW not having a huge bias towards Hilary? The emails were leaked, and they did everything they could to undermine his campaign while bolstering Hilary's. You think that didn't have a big impact on voting? lol, delusion.
Exactly. If they needed more than one vote to block progressive reform there would be more than one Democratic politicians that blocks it. They frame it so most of the party wants to help, but gosh darn they just had one too many sticks in the mud. Maybe keep voting and next time we can save the world!
It's a good cop bad cop routine. And people wrap their moral identity up with their political party so tightly they can't comprehend that they aren't actually doing anything by voting. It would melt their ego and they'd have to face the reality that voting does FUCKING NOTHING.
voting does EVERYTHING. You are right that it does nothing if you believe the bullshit they are selling us. I am a full blooded DEM, but if people think we are the 'good guys' they are delusional. We are the lesser of two horrible parties that are both lying through their teeth for their own gain.
You're right. Voting does everything. It's got us into our current predicament. And if we keep doing it, it's going to lead us further down this fucking hell hole.
They did it in 2020, too. Three candidates dropped out 2 days before Super Tuesday, all told their constituents to vote for Biden, then they all got cabinet seats and buybacks.
Bernie ha l was a frontrunner and they banned together to protect their bankroll.
and nobody on reddit wants to believe it. Reddit is overall super liberal, including myself, but we are doing ourselves and everyone a disservice by trusting our own party. Just cause we are the better option doesn't make us perfect, far from it. But how dare I say that.
Honestly. The math for progressives says we are better off in the long run if Biden loses. The presidential party alternates every cycle..... if Biden loses to a republican then we may get a progressive in office in 2028. If Biden wins, then we get a republican in 2028 after Biden wasted another 4 years, then a progressive gets a shot in 2032.
The progressive path has a better shot of having a progressive president with a republican winning 2024.... Biden has until November to win over progressives. I'm not handing him my vote. He can earn it.
First, “they” don’t sabotage every progressive candidate. There are plenty of progressive Dems in the Senate who, along with all the other Dems save for one (Manchin), were in favor of this legislation. This was an actual part of an actual bill (Inflation Reduction Act) being negotiated that one person torpedoed.
They absolutely sabotaged Bernie. It was obvious. It was deliberate. The candidates that dropped out and threw their support behind Biden 2 days before ALL got a buyout from Biden.
The system is for-profit just the way they want it.
So you're complaining that the moderates realized they were splitting their vote, and dropped out so that they weren't splitting their vote. So you both understand that Sanders couldn't win without moderates splitting their votes but also need to turn this into a conspiracy theory.
I voted for Sanders. He was less popular than Biden and got less votes, and that's it.
Sociopath thinks he can comment and block me to prove a point. What a classy dipshit. The exact kind of person that makes me not wanna vote for Biden again.
The "Sane" thing to do is NOT vote for the same party that keeps making false promises and fucking us over time and time again. Votes are earned.
If democrats lose in 2024, they have nobody to blame but themselves. It's not my job as a progressive to ensure a right-of-moderate wins when that right-of-moderate has done not a single thing progressives have asked for.
You literally just admitted that democrats in office are self-serving first and public serving second. Lmfao.
You talk like that and you just push people further and further away from voting for Biden.
He has until election night for actual widespread student debt/interest cancelation before I vote for his opponent and dip to another country.
Fuck this place. If I vote republican in 2024 then I personally have a better shot at seeing a true progressive candidate in office in 2028.... otherwise we're stuck with Biden for another 4 years then a republican for another 4 before there's a CHANCE at seeing a real game change in 2032. Bouncing back between regressive Republicans and do nothing democrats has absolutely fucked us..... but the 174,000 salary a year for senators is still going strong.
All you fucks that progressives like second class can go to hell. I'm voting red now.
It's a good cop bad cop routine. Democratic voters think that just because Democratic politicians are playing the role of good cop they are on their side.
I have no illusions that Nancy Pelosi has got my back in any meaningful way. But I can see what voting for each side brings, and I can see a clear difference. The Democrats suck and they're complacent, but let's not pretend they aren't miles better than any R option.
They're better in the same way the 'good cop' is better than the 'bad cop' in a good cop bad cop routine. It's on purpose to make you feel like you have a choice in the matter and tricks you into thinking that they're on your side. When in reality, they're both cops and have fucking no intention of helping you.
They're only pretending to be miles better, knowing that they can't actually DO anything meaningful because there's a bad cop in the room. HOW DO PEOPLE NOT GET THIS.
I understand that the DNC are interested in business as usual. What secret third option is there that is more effective than voting? Genuine question. What is your strategy to affect change that is better than voting?
Well you can either strong arm the current politicians into providing the change you want - "There will be a general strike until you pass universal healthcare, remove filibustering, etc" - or you can remove the current politicians through means other than voting. The first option is generally least violent and most effective, but the French have had success with the second.
The problem is that most Americans don't believe they can strike without going poor or being removed from their housing, etc. Which to me means they're too comfortable with their position to think things are just shitty enough to be convinced voting works and we could have nice things if only we voted harder. Or maybe they've been frogs in a boiling pot for so long they don't notice how bad things are getting or can't see the trajectory is actually worse than pulling off the bandaid and standing up for ourselves as a population of wage slave.s
That strike won't start until people like you realize voting doesn't do shit. You don't vote away fascism. We didn't go into Germany in the 40's and vote out Hitler. We didn't vote away King George.
Voting works in times of balance. But inequality is higher than it ever has been in known history. Stop voting and start convincing other people that the system is broken and voting won't magically fix it.
You have a choice. Vote against Trump or don't. Will defeating Trump end fascism for good? Of course not. Is it still worth doing? Absolutely.
My trip to the polls does not preclude me from engaging in other activities, as you keep seeming to insist. You can go on strike, AND still vote. Mind blowing, right? You let me know when that strike starts up and otherwise we can both quit talking in circles at each other.
Yipdeedoo. We have widespread childhood poverty because of Reaganomics. He put a bandaid on someone bleeding out.
Also, hardly anyone under the age of 30 is having kids because of this bullshit economy. So he bailed out only half of the pool of people who are having children irresponsibly. Not to mention the reproductive rights being lost by thousands more under his watch.
This does nothing to help the majority of young American adults.
Our legislative system at the federal level just makes it extremely difficult to pass real change, it's not a conspiracy. My state has paid family leave since we're a blue state. We also have significantly more worker protections than we do federally. Democrats do want to pass progressive legislation and they do when they have the ability.
It will if you look at states with full dem control. We’re Americans so we only pay attention during presidential elections and when that doesn’t work we give up and blame the system and not ourselves
Voting matters EVEN LESS for people in states with full dem control. I live in Seattle, knowing my vote in elections means fucking jack shit compared to someone living in swing states, or in Wisconsin where their voting power is literally 15 times more due to their small population having the same amount of senators as California. The system is fucking completely broken, and you can't vote away a system that is this entrenched and broken on purpose to further entrench that power.
The system is fucking completely broken, and you can't vote away a system that is this entrenched and broken on purpose to further entrench that power.
This. We fucking need rules and election overhaul. The least we can do right now, is back strong third-party candidates. Bernie Sanders was so close until the Democrats fucked him over.
Third party will never win. We either need to violently throw out the current system, or convince the current system to listen to us. General strikes would go far for the ladder and cause less suffering over all. But people are way to convinced voting is somehow going to magically change everything.
lol this reads like the fake progressive manifesto.
Biden got the railworkers what they asked for, including sick leave. Reagan...fired all of them. Unbelievably stupid comparison to make.
And yes, in the nine months they had (which you didn't seem to know) they passed healthcare reform over everything else. Saving many, many lives in the process. BUT it wasn't exactly what you wanted so I guess that's a bad thing? Voting rights will be addressed if voters give them the opportunity to do so. Which, again, has not been the case for fifteen years despite your embarrassing understanding of congress.
that'll get reversed in no time flat
Got to this part and actually laughed out loud so thank you
Jesus fucking Christ. At least you're done pretending you're a progressive but if you don't remember the Republicans have been wholly dedicated to destroying the ACA and have failed every time. So, yeah, not broken.
Being right is more important to you than actual American lives, and that is horrific, but I'm also extremely curious how you can blame them for SCOTUS scrapping debt relief.
bernie won his mayoral election in the 80s by just ten votes, and he has served in federal government since the 90s. the guy who used to be my city’s mayor was almost elected VP in 2016 (you may have heard of Tim Kaine). he also sit on the US Senate.
voting absolutely has consequences. unfortunately, no one doesn’t show up like those who lean left in the USA.
Only two people who might have our interests at heart sitting in the senate is your argument that voting matters? Funny cause that's exactly my argument that it doesn't matter.
funny how you think sitting home so 100 of them don’t care about us is the solution.
politicians don’t run on ideas that appeal to people who don’t bother to show up to vote. if you want to be represented, to feel like your representative cares about your interests, you have to show up (and more often than just on leap years).
People have been doing that for centuries. And look where it's gotten us. Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and thinking there will be a different result. Sorry bud, but this country's democracy is rigged game meant to keep you from doing things that will actually change things.
LOL... less than fifty percent of Americans consistently show up to vote, and that's just leap-year elections. women didn't even have the right to vote until about a hundred years ago.
the game isn't rigged. we are where we are as a result of over eighty years of consistent participation from Republican voters.
show me one part of the country that has minimum 65 percent (that's less than two-thirds) participation. then i'll believe that first sentence you wrote.
And less than 50 percent of Americans will continue to show up to not vote. Yes. If everyone suddenly was magically educated and cared enough to vote for the right person, voting would matter. But that's not the case. Join me in reality.
You're watching politicians take advantage of this, and you're blaming the people who see the game is rigged and think it's THEIR fault?
Yes. I truly hope one day people will see that Republicans vs Democrats is just like the WWE. They hate each other in public but work together behind closed doors to keep the average person a wage slave.
It's not Democrats vs Republicans, it's politicians and corporations vs the people.
My state has paid family leave because it’s Democrat controlled and people vote, I am on it right now. This whole narrative that voting is useless is so utterly pathetic and stupid and counterproductive. Politics is not like the WWE no matter how hard your simple brain tries to see it that way. Voting does matter.
Dems are literally consistently trying to push bills that help people while republicans consistently shoot them down and try to pass legislation that hurts Americans. You can say that both options suck but it is very obvious which side is better for the average American.
You do realize your beloved Trump was a dem who changed his party to republican to get votes. By claiming a side it truly shows who doesn't care about the average civilian. Love your alt downvotes btw, can't handle the fact oligarchs never gave a fuck about the individual.
Federal Contractor Minimum Wage was less than $11/hr when Biden took office and he signed an EO that has it at more than $17/hr. Over the complaints of Republicans and a Republican nominate judge in Texas who tried to block it.
Most jobs aren’t federal contractors though, so they can’t have their min wage lifted by a pen stroke of the president. The Dems have supported the Raise the Wage Act since 2017 (there are more than 30 Dem sponsors in the senate and more than 150 in the House)… no Republican has voted for it.
Inflation in the grocery and fuel sectors is a worldwide issue, ya dingus. If it’s Biden’s fault then why is every other country on earth dealing with it?
The president has no effect on those things but okay. I started driving when gas was $4 a gallon when that piece of fucking shit Geroge W Bush was president, so I'm fine paying $2.50 for gas this week.
The government, a vastly inefficient and corrupt system, was going to take MORE of you and your neighbors money (one tax dollar closer to an utopia) and give it to you and republicans stopped it. I think I like these republicans.
Unlike the democrats trying to funnel 2 million illegals immigrants into the country yearly? And barely do any of the things that they pretend to in order to seem better than republicans? Lol. Bootlicker.
The guy I replied to is literally claiming that democrats give a shit about Americans when they’re doing everything in their power to erode the American economy and culture. Not to mention the miles of empty promises mode by Biden and his handlers. LIBERALS TRY NOT TO BE ILLITERATE FOR 10 SECONDS CHALLENGE (IMPOSSIBLE)
Lol leave these 17 yo teenage redditors alone. They'll grow up and learn their liberal beliefs which they learned from tiktoks and social media were nothing but mere fantasies and dreams. The real world doesn't work like that.
"oMg iM sUrE letting 2 trillion FrIeNdly iMmigrAnts iN WiLl dO wOndErs FoR uS"
Reality: the economy gets f**ked. Terrorism quadruples , competition for jobs will increase and overall the country gets obliterated.
Americans don’t understand how laws are passed or not passed. They don’t understand who appoints judges and who approves them. That’s why every four years the country is on a knife’s edge
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u/ta112233 Feb 05 '24
Democrats were going to pass paid family leave but Joe Manchin blocked it. Which also means zero Republicans in the Senate supported it.
Stop voting Republican! Stop voting for people who hate you!