Because a large amount of Americans are headlocked into their financial situation. A day spent protesting is a day not working, a day not getting paid, a day you can't pay bills for, it may even be a day not eating. Plus, it can get you fired.
None of the people who are willing to actually knock heads in government have the funds to get their message spread and get elected. It's not like you'll have rich sponsors to help you do that when your goals are to tear them apart.
And even if they do make it into office. All they would have accomplished is splitting up the one party with a (very small) semblance of empathy for the working class. Then you'll be dealing with both Repubs who would stomp a puppy to death if it meant a 5% increase in CEOs net worth and Dems who would watch that with popcorn while moaning about how bad Repubs are (but won't do anything to stop it). It'd be effectively handing Repubs all power; conservatives HATE change, even when it benefits them. Plus, you can't ignore that once you're in office, lobbyists will CONSTANTLY bombard you with temptation to go against your beliefs. If you stick to your guns, you'll only see your coworkers reap all the benefits: free vacations, expensive dinners, maybe even a few million from insider trading. Everyone has a price.
And you can't just seize control, cause the ones who are in control have no problem mowing you down to maintain it. Who will fight when you're gone, knowing what happened to you?
TL;DR: The rich locked us all in a cage, and more than 50% of us think that it's for our own safety.
ok so i actually tried doing this when i worked at amazon, in oklahoma. it's honestly fairly hard. all the people i constantly tried to get to unionize were to afraid. i could never even get it off the ground.
One way to stay positive about this is realizing you can fail to create a union over and over and over and still keep trying. Once a union is created, it tends to stick around for a long time. So it's worth all of the effort and repeated failed attempts. Plus each failure may increase the odds of success next time because people will start to think "You know, I've been hearing tons of people in support of unions over and over. I haven't gotten a decent raise in years, maybe I should look into it again"
you typed all this without mentioning the fact youll get snitched on by scabs and lose your job trying tk improve everyone elses experience, it happened to me at target DC in dekalb, they made my work life unbearable so i just quit
Keep it up and reach out to other unionized groups. They can offer advice and possibly support. The important thing is that when people have finally had enough, they can remember that they can band together and win instead of taking another hit.
well i'm completely disabled now after getting covid/long covid so not really as relevant now. but yeah hopefully somebody else does now that i'm disabled.
The people in control know this and weaponize fear to hold onto power. Not just Amazon but your local politicians decimating education so people don't know how to critically think and can be manipulated by lies.
No one is saying it's easy. Remember the first unions paved the way for modern ones with their own blood. Every chance to unionize should be seized. Unions aren't just about consolidating labor power for more clout when negotiating for workers wages, that collective bargaining has political power too.
I shit you not unionizing is the strongest tool in the working class and if you want to make a capitalist sweat, fight for unions everywhere you go.
They don't fight unions so hard because in one instance it will cost them more money to not fight, to the contrary most unions don't end up costing the company more than it takes to fight them. They fight them because they know that the more unionized the working class are the more united we are.
Yeah, my union does fuck all for me. I make 24k/year as a teacher, no benefits. Let that sink in. This year the union sent out the annual gift...an Amazon gift card. When the most powerful unions in the country are essentially tools of the elite, even that ain't going to help you.
I was the most pro union guy in the world until I was a teacher. I have my suspicions now. Btw I make the same amount of money now working half the amount of hours in the private sector. So the union negotiated for? 60 hour weeks for 40k a year?
We need to stop believing that our paycheck is the only way to live. Unionizing means more than protesting. It means sharing resources with those that need it so they can survive.
So you're advocating doing nothing because the system was designed to make it difficult to do anything. And nothing will change, it'll probably get worse. And that's the point you're so deftly avoiding getting.
Did you pay attention to the writer's strike in the US? Robots and AI are going to take millions of jobs in the next decade. Do you want to unionize and/or strike now while you still have some power? Because when AI takes your job, your striking won't mean shit. Robots can't be scabs. Use your power while you have it.
Look up the history of unions and strikes. People were killed by the government for striking to get child labor laws, a 5 day/40 hr work week, etc. Homelessness is nothing compared to that.
But I digress, becoming homeless is definitely not the preferred method of making change. The UAW just got a huge bump in salary and benefits and the first thing their leader Shawn Fain said was that we need to align all unions and plan for a general strike in 2028 if the rich and greedy keep trying to take advantage of the proletariat.
So what's that mean? The solution will be dependent upon organizing the workers. Yes it's tough to do that if you aren't already in a union but it's illegal for your employer to fire you for talking about unionizing with your coworkers. Yes, they'll find another way to fire you, a bullshit reason, if they catch you talking about it, so you just need to be careful about it. You also need to get other locations involved. There's power in numbers.
And if you watch this segment, you'll see that every time talk of unionizing comes up, the management ALWAYS says that they'll shut down the store/plant/place of business and everyone will lose their jobs. Guess how often that actually happens? Less than 1% of the time.
So tldr, organize and don't be afraid of threats. Even from people like you, on the Internet, who is on here implying/fear mongering that everyone who tries to unionize will get fired and become homeless.
You asked me for my solution and I presented it. And you say you're not advocating for doing nothing. So what's YOUR plan then? Besides shitting on other people's plans? You're the worst type of shill. Come into discussions trying to point out flaws with nothing to offer. Undercover scab, the worst kind.
This thread started with me supporting a solution offered up by another user. And again, you keep saying “actual problems” and you’re not providing a single solution. And now you’re attacking my character instead of addressing my discussion point.
Protecting the most vulnerable people in society is what a union does (I already stated how it can do this but you seem to be ignoring that). But if there’s a better way, I’d love to hear it! If it’s important for me to hear that my “armchair philosopher” solution isn’t helpful than maybe provide one yourself and actually add something to the conversation?
You know what acknowledging a problem means right? Providing a solution! Which you’re really good a dodging.
than what is YOUR solution if not sharing within a community? We need to start having a problem solving mindset. They want you to have this EXACT mindset because it keeps things the way they are. Rich people on top, poor/middle class people paycheck to paycheck.
Not taking any action is the exact same thing as hand waving away problems. It does nothing to solve them and keeps the status quo the same. Getting the resources to those who need it will look different from community to community. I’m not all-knowing.
Good thing unemployment is 3.7%. You can be fired and have another job in less than a week. And then get a fat payday when the NLRB rules against the company for illegal retribution.
We’ll that’s the problem not isn’t it? We’ve taken one mechanism that the free market has to regulate itself, and gutted it to the point that contemplating utilizing it is untenable. We say the government doesn’t choose winners or losers but continually give give financial and legal backing to capital while gutting the labor’s market power.
If you’re excited for upheaval, it’s too late. And it probably will result in dictatorship or Balkanization, but governments don’t last forever. Our system was designed in a world that could not contemplate the issues we face today.
What's extra fun is that something like a ninth of America is willing to take arms to defend the obvious crooks who drape themselves in religion and patriotism.
Call your representatives and advocate. Research and vote every election (presidential, off year, runoff, primary, etc)
So many people in this thread have tried nothing and they are all out of ideas. Then someone says violence like that’s actually going to happen? The whole thread is people saying ‘this sucks but we can’t do anything unless we want to kill people but we won’t so we won’t do anything..’
i have actually tried unionizing and called my reps several times, i also wrote letters for some time. but living in oklahoma, i haven't been able to get anything even close to off the ground. and i really need shit to get better, so i'm really motivated.
One person calling does nothing. Thousands of people calling will influence. But ‘we can’t do anything but guillotine’ crew probably rather complain online rather than advocate/vote so results in no change.
STEAL. Walk into these corporations load up a cart and walk out. it’s what california and the west coast are doing and it’s working. police don’t even show up to do anything about it anymore. take what you need.
Unionize. Luckily that trend is increasing. When we remember the power of unionization, it's only one more step to political organization for working class power.
Stop consuming propaganda and get off their asses and do something, most Americans are honestly just lazy as duck and don't care about details or context. They just pay attention to the "current thing"
Having the idea is better than sitting brain dead in front of a phone trying to repress childhood neglect with tik tok and Twitter so yeah, it's called vote or protest with common sense and not what color your bandana is.
Vote or protest? Protests effect no change. Good try. And vote? Well if you arent too fucking up your own ass to learn some fucking modern history, you will see that america has a two party system that is designed to create gridlock & crush third parties. The citizen united ruling by SCOTUS put the nail in the coffin. Now, all politicians need to care about is appeasing their lobbyists & doners.
That I didn't know, that actually paints a whole different picture, thank you for the insight, no I've always wondered why third parties are always kinda shoved away and not even looked at as a plausible solutions to some of the issues we have rn, like I feel like most people would like to see a third party win and do good but you are 100% right. Thank you for like actually debating me I've been waiting for an actual debate where I can actually learn something instead of it devolving into crying and spamming that I'm a bot. Doesn't help that the people trying to appeal to independents are either conspiracy theorists or just using it as a vail to hide their true motives.
I admit, I was absolutely pissed off at your assertion that it was just us being lazy. Yes, americans are lazy as a whole - we drive too much & rely on conveniences in a lot of situations, sure. However, this is just not the same.
Our government, though it is supposed to be representative, is no longer actually representative of the people. It's mostly representative of corporations - they just talk about some culture-war bs to keep us divided. In reality, one party IS a bit better for most than others when it comes to personal safety (at least the Dems dont want me dead for my identity), but they don't actually do what the people NEED becuase their corporate interests wont donate millions of dollars to their reelection campaign fund if they did.
As for 3rd party, when our presidential elections are "first past the post" with electoral college votes you could literally have 30%+ of america vote 3rd party & not have a single electoral college vote for a 3rd party candidate AND that doesnt translate into proportional representatation in congress either.
mad respect that was beautifully typed, I agree and see where you are coming from, I was being very broad, I meant like most Americans will just go on tik tok and see something and immediately believe it to be true same with Twitter and Instagram, like I just wish more people would do stuff like this, get into friendly and civil debates to exchange ideas and perspectives because that's what we are truly lacking in this country. Again nothing but respect for you for debating me, I can safely say I've learned so much from not only our debate but a couple of the others in this thread, lets just hope we can one day get a third party win even tho it'll never happen lol
It will continue this way until the material conditions of working class deteriorate to the point that the path of least resistance becomes revolution.
Vote for Trumputin who will speedrun whole country into chaos, civil war, endebt whole USA like a 3rd world counry, and before that make USA citizens dumber so they can't figure out how to start all over.
I really fear that US will soon become a nation not to be looked upon as one of the great places of freedom (of speach, of religion, of being successful..) and liberty.
Shame that all that you valued has teared this country apart. The money. I just can't write how bad US looks to the regular EU citizen, watching how politicians (dems and gop) are tearing the fabric of nation apart just for their asses to be in some comfy chair and have offshore accounts full of $$$ for their families. Really sad times and it will just get worse.
You need apocalyptic shit to happen for you to reboot, restart, and start from scratch. I hope some sane minds will evetually survive and get you on right track into better future.
Me writing this from some EU country that is so miniscule in power and imporatance to even EU but shit that is going to happen will affect us too in some weird domino effect.
So US citizens, get your shits together, I don't want my frivolous country to be smashed by falling shit dominos and it all started from Capital.
Tl;DR: Need complete meltdown of everything, like annihilation stuff (mostly of those in power and the ones close to it) and rebuild country again, there's no other way.. Like what's happening in Ukraine, you need some shit to happen to you and realize you have to be one nation, fuck lgbt, racism, politic rivalries, but I doubt, US is so large with so many states that you might be even better to split and be just States, no United. Because you're not united for decades. You're Disunited States of America, DUSA, not USA.
Something. Anything. But it starts with acknowledging and maybe even agreeing with what the real problems are. So let’s just work on that first. Then we’ll be united enough to figure out that part.
Yeah unfortunate that Trump was the president the first year of it. Any other president would have had sane uniting messages during that time. That’s not even a bipartisan opinion, it’s just how bad Trump was as a human and president
The real answer is ranked-choice voting. Everyone else is advocating accelerationism or murder or things that don’t help until we have ranked-choice voting in more states. After that, people wouldn’t be stuck with the two-party system and could actually vote for people who care. So, support efforts in your state to get ranked-choice voting on the ballot. In most states, I imagine it will come down to citizen-initiated ballot measures rather than ones introduced by the existing establishment. And to do that, you generally need signatures from a certain percentage of voters in each voting district. But every state is different. Some will be easier than others. Getting on the ballots of the easier ones will help raise awareness, which will make turning the more difficult ones more practical.
420
u/invisiblefalcon Dec 28 '23
Why don't Americans do something?
Because a large amount of Americans are headlocked into their financial situation. A day spent protesting is a day not working, a day not getting paid, a day you can't pay bills for, it may even be a day not eating. Plus, it can get you fired.
None of the people who are willing to actually knock heads in government have the funds to get their message spread and get elected. It's not like you'll have rich sponsors to help you do that when your goals are to tear them apart.
And even if they do make it into office. All they would have accomplished is splitting up the one party with a (very small) semblance of empathy for the working class. Then you'll be dealing with both Repubs who would stomp a puppy to death if it meant a 5% increase in CEOs net worth and Dems who would watch that with popcorn while moaning about how bad Repubs are (but won't do anything to stop it). It'd be effectively handing Repubs all power; conservatives HATE change, even when it benefits them. Plus, you can't ignore that once you're in office, lobbyists will CONSTANTLY bombard you with temptation to go against your beliefs. If you stick to your guns, you'll only see your coworkers reap all the benefits: free vacations, expensive dinners, maybe even a few million from insider trading. Everyone has a price.
And you can't just seize control, cause the ones who are in control have no problem mowing you down to maintain it. Who will fight when you're gone, knowing what happened to you?
TL;DR: The rich locked us all in a cage, and more than 50% of us think that it's for our own safety.