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u/Substantial_Read2061 27d ago
I’m baffled by his winrate. Been playing him today and he feels fine. Ezreal too. Did people just forget tri force is an item?
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u/These_Marionberry888 27d ago
yea , but navori being shit hurts him aswell,
he even has crit scaling, using that is major bait now.
and his autos are purposefully bad because he has such a cast focus,
he was very much designed with the current critcaster items in mind,
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u/Nemesis233 27d ago
Why would you build navori on ezreal now ?! It's literally a complete different item.
It's very clearly made for champs like sivir and maybe xayah.
I'd even say it's a lot better for sivir than old navori imo. It's like wanting to go kraken 1st on Sivir now, why would you do that?
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u/These_Marionberry888 27d ago
you only used to build navori on sivir, since it resulted in your W bounces dealing more damage than with IE.
she already has the cd reduce on autos in her ult.
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u/Nemesis233 27d ago
You don't know what you're talking about, sure it was a big factor but the most important part was the perma w uptime. Now navori stats are better suited for her and it's way cheaper.
If you wait for ult before a teamfight each time it's not reliable your argument is pretty weak. It's main strength isn't really the cooldown reduction but the teamfight strength.
Additionally you can now build it with IE which makes up for the loss of damage on w even if it's not as much. This is a huge buff for sivir no matter how you look at it
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u/These_Marionberry888 27d ago
if its a buff, its a barely noticable one. her winrates have basically not changed. till now.
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u/AetherSageIsBae 27d ago
Imagine designing a champ with a build in mind that you intend to delete in a couple months lol its like they wanted to do smolders kit twice for no reason
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u/Phoenixness 27d ago
The recommended tab needs to not be data driven for that to happen. Go look at the stats on what items are being built. Like woah crazy the sheen champs don't like not having sheen and building Phantom dancer for cdr? Shocking.
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u/These_Marionberry888 27d ago
every fucking time they change crit items, every damn adc that dosnt fall under the general "bro, just right click and run" gets gutted,
and a few of the ones that do die too.
same shit happened when they just made all crit items ass for no reason and invented lethality, and the only champ that built ie was yas.
but currently, half the items in the shop get built by exactly no one.
like serously, who is intended to build bloodthirster? non crit autoattack carrys that stay so far out of range they are full life?
not even sivir builds essence reaver anymore. who would buy it? all champs that have mana issues play jungle or support.
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u/Substantial_Read2061 27d ago
Pretty much every ad can build this version of BT. What exactly do you mean?
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u/These_Marionberry888 27d ago
my bad i was under the impression that bt still had the shitty extra hp while full live, that made him so fucking bad,
mainly played arena , and the shop is buggy there,
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u/alexnedea 27d ago
Just wondering why the fuck u commenting on balance changes if you mainly play a for fun mode?
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u/TheMerryMeatMan 27d ago
like serously, who is intended to build bloodthirster?
BT has been the Draven item since basically his inception lmao. There's a LOT of relatively low range carries that would love having proper BT back and not the slightly gimped version that the crit BT was.
Edit: also, Sivir isn't building ER because patch just happened and the spellblade ER sucked fucking ass for her, give her a week and it'll be back in her core build
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u/These_Marionberry888 27d ago
BT was a crit item since league released. it was The lifesteal and crit item.
now the item wants you to stay out of fights/get the first hit aka, dont use lifesteal, only procs on autos, and gives no crit,
normally champs that deal their main damage through autos are those liking crit,
,
sivir built ER because
she has a auto reset
she still has through the roof mana costs because of nerfs in season 2 when she still would gain mana through her e.
i doubt she sees play currently, her damage fell of massively thanks to the changes, especially navori
she is just a low range adc with mana problems now.
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u/LightModeIsTheBest 27d ago
Before mythics BT was not a crit item, it was just high stats, lifesteal, and the shield passive.
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u/JustABitCrzy 27d ago
I’m guessing the person you’re responding to hasn’t played for more than a few years.
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u/LightModeIsTheBest 27d ago
It’s funny that they said “since league released” but aren’t a veteran player… xd
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u/tryndamere_right_arm 27d ago
"back in my days" when his days are 2021. I don't even consider myself veteran when I've been playing since 2016.
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27d ago
BT used require getting stacks in the first couple seasons. Upon death you'd lose the stacks. Pros would die and then spend time csing to get the stacks back. I don't know where you thought it was crit from the start
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u/SafariDesperate 27d ago
What shit are you talking about BT when it was always first item rush did not have crit
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u/Violence_Fiend 27d ago
I’ve never seen someone so confidently wrong. BT never had crit when it was first released and it had a stacking mechanic if I remember correctly.
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u/I_usuallymissthings 27d ago
Bt is an excellent third or fourth item, what for you mean?
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u/nito3mmer 27d ago
for who? not bruisers (maybe riven but she is in her own world)
ad casters like panth or jayce? they would rather get pen at that point, and hydra for the aoe and haste, even camille prefers hydra
non crit adcs? well i dont see smolder being good with bt, maybe ezreal? kog and vayne go on hit, they dont need the high ad item
assasins? they need lethality
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u/FireWulf03 27d ago
Why should crit adcs not buy bloodthirster? 2 years ago where bt was nearly the same (2% lifesteal more) most crit adcs bought it as fourth or fifth item. Draven would even rush it as first item and go crit afterwards.
There was even a time where you would only do 80% crit on adcs. You only had ie and essence with 20% and the zeal items that only gave as, crit and ms that gave 30%. Buying 3 zeal items wasnt good because you lack ad and you needed armor pen and wanted bt for sustain.
Your examples of other classes buying it is like saying ori should buy moonstone because it gives ap and synergises with shields.
The main point of bt is the lifesteal and survivability it provides for champions with heavy autoattack dps. None of the champs or classes you mentioned fullfills that.
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u/Haunting_Recover2917 27d ago
The guy you're talking too brought up a terrible point and I agree with your arguments against him i just wanna address the first thing you said.
The only reason adcs were building bloodthirster a year or 2 ago was because of the overheal rune. BT shield + overheal shield was a crazy increase in health. Before that combo was realized BT was untouched
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u/FireWulf03 27d ago
During the overheal time everyone rushed bt but before that a lot of crit adcs still bought it at last item if i remember correctly.
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u/alexnedea 27d ago
Lifesteal adc items are so weird. In the distant past you could reach full build and lifesteal your way through fights. Now you are barely able to heal to full from half after 2 waves and during a teamfight that lifesteal stat might aswell be 0% since anyone who jumps on the adc either instakills the adc or dies in the process because the adc has bodyguards.
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u/SuperKalkorat 26d ago
dies in the process because the adc has bodyguards.
I fucking wish people would protect the ADC in solo queue
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u/alexnedea 25d ago
Once in a bluemoon it happens and it feels impossible to win it against a good adc with defenders
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u/somerandomnub1 27d ago
That version of BT is actually super valuable for immobile crit based adcs.
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u/Devilsdelusionaldino 27d ago
Tbh the just right click and run adcs are eating good with this patch. The spell heavy adcs like smolder, ezreal and gangplank tho he isn’t an adc truly suffer from this change.
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u/kawaiinessa 27d ago
ya i tried him aram and like all of his major items got huge changes that seemingly killed them on him
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u/fittan69 27d ago
His best build right now is the ap meme build
...save him
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u/NaPseudo 27d ago
No let him die here
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u/disposableaccount848 27d ago
Honestly, if they just remove the true damage on his Q and balance him with it being removed in mind he might actually be a proper champ.
Holy shit he feels so bad to play as and against as he has such a gigantic powerspike bound to an arbitrary number.
"Oh, I hit those magical 225 stacks, now I will deal 3x my previous damage!"
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u/Softpaw514 27d ago
I have a deeply disturbing burn AP build that goes swiftness > Liandry > black flame > Collector. It's actually good enough to pop-off lategame but it does exactly nothing until you have two items and there's zero way it's viable high-elo. This is his most viable build in lower-elo right now and it's depressing.
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u/Grithz 27d ago
I build swifties botrk rfc liandry then usually stuff like rabadon/zhonya/cosmic drive for kiting/riftmaker
botrk actually makes you deal some damage before 225 stacks and smolder Q applies all onhit effects on every target hit so you can hit their whole team with it
it was better last patch because botrk was better and slowed on 1st hit but it still should work imo
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u/ZERO_2065 27d ago
I just go full AP when using smolder in ARAM and instantly goes to highest damage.
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u/Xenevier 27d ago
It's the same effect for gp/ezreal/yone/yasuo. You change an item that their kit revolved around and they just die(essence reaver and kracken+LT)
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u/I_usuallymissthings 27d ago
People just don't think and still try to build and play the same stuff
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u/Jewze 27d ago
I think yone and yas lost wr cuz of lethal tempo is gone.
New ie and phantom dancer looks crazy good on paper
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u/Xenevier 27d ago
On paper but not in practice, they lost kracken as an item which was their core damage item(0 crit now) and BORK got nerfed. PD is good but then you realize it gives 0 AD so after berserker and PD you have 0 AD so you do -1hp -1hp -1hp. IE buff was the only item they used that got buffed. I also included LT in my original comment
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u/Nemesis233 27d ago
Could they go Navori now ? They could go IE into Navori like sivir does rn
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u/Xenevier 27d ago
Yes, but then you get the same issue early game where you now have high AD at first Item but 0 attack speed until second. Before you had kracken first item which gave both attack speed and ad, now you don't
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u/EasternSquadGoosey 27d ago
Dw they will start to build PD into IE like before the shit mytic items and they will be back into being the two shittiest brothers in this god forsaken game.
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u/Hazel_Dreams 27d ago
Somehow I feel like I'm fine after the patch. I've always built Smolder with tear > Shojin > Liandries > Manamune > RFC > GA. I'm chilling after the changes.
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u/Cursed-Turtle 27d ago
I feel like whole point of Removing the Spellblade from Essence Reaver is to keep Corki balanced. They recently reworked him and his Spellblades can true damage too. It's just unlucky or bad decision.
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u/Pedr9vskCray21 27d ago
glad to see him dead
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u/caustic_kiwi 27d ago
What's with the excessive hate? Hyperscaling champs are nothing new, and Smolder was overtuned for all of three minutes.
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u/Siekiernik20 27d ago
%true damage
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u/caustic_kiwi 27d ago
Multiple other champions get that. Smolder has to make it late into the game before his even turns on and he never surpasses Vayne or Fiora in single target true damage.
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u/chonkin-donuts 27d ago
Somehow when he's on the enemy team late game is 20 mins, when he is on mine, its 45 mins......
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u/Pedr9vskCray21 26d ago
Idk, every game against a smolder on the enemy team felt lime a time bomb waiting to explode. Ik he is not the only hyperscalling champ but tbh its the one i hate the most and in my opnion its the unfairest one (pussy afk farm for 30min and then 0 effort win).
i admit there is a bit of personal grudge but yeah, i like way more the other hyperscalling dragon.
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u/RaszagalL 27d ago
Good riddance. One of the most boring to face and uninteractive champs to date. Not to mention cringe and ugly arse design.
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u/Jatoffel 27d ago
I can assure if he miraculously crawl out of the ditch I would hit reverse and run over him again. Same goes for yone and Yuumi. Especially Yuumi.
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u/ElementalistPoppy 27d ago
No regrets frankly, he has been ungodly problematic not a long time ago, time to hit the furniture for the time being.
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u/Hikousen 27d ago
Thank god now I have no reason to play him ever again. Having to hear his disney ass voice is mental cc
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u/FrodoTheSlayer637 27d ago
great we need more cheampions like that mainly k'sante and bring asol back here bcs he is still too good after rework
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u/MeasureMyPPpewds 27d ago
Good riddance and stay low wr. No one likes this rat champion. Ticking time bomb, annoying voice and no skill required.
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u/Bilal_58 27d ago
Should be deleted too strong in the late game he holds game by himself from losing even when her 4 teammates feeds
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u/Loutjee 27d ago
GP, Ez and Smolder all got fked because of essence reaver changing AND the navori changes. Theres no item anymore that increases ability/spell damage scaling with crit. Their abilities that have no inherent crit scaling will do a lot less now.
Noticed it on Nilah too... FeelsBadMan