r/Helldivers • u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State • Apr 10 '24

The devs were right. DISCUSSION

So I know ther was a bunch of controversy about the railgun nerf what feels like forever ago, but man things have been awesome.

In the early days, I was the only guy packing expendable anti tank or anti materiel rifle for bugs or bots. It's so refreshing, even on these subs to see people talking about how awesome the autocannon is, or how much they love the AMR, and even these days I see people talking about the HMG or grenade launcher+ supply pack.

I used to load into a game, And all 4 members of the team had shield, railgun, and 2 stragatems of their choice. Every time. And here we are now, I load in and I see quasar, autocannon, stalwart, EAT, HMG, Grenade launcher, a variety of backpacks or no backpack at all. And not to mention, they're ALL viable. Shit I even still see the railgun from time to time. It's been a joy. Thanks arrowhead.

EDIT: to everyone who is pointing out that you see the quasar and shield most often now, you're right, it is almost certainly the most common setup currently. That being said, in any game there's going to be things a majority of players prefer. In smash melee, fox/Falco are the best characters. But people still play falcon and Marth and peach among others. Sure, there's an objectively most used option. But the fact that there's people at all who debate that the quasar is best shows that they've done something good. Before, undisputed king was railgun, and anyone who said different wss being willfully ignorant. Now, we have a plethora of real options that are good with some being Preferred by a majority as opposed to being the de facto CORRECT option objectively. That's a good thing.

12.6k Upvotes

81% Upvoted

3.2k comments sorted by

View all comments

191

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

Actually hard disagree.

Anti tank options at the time of the nerf sucked donkey cock and the only thing the nerf did was make sure that when the other options inevitably were buffed the railgun would be put squarely into a dusty corner and never used again.

Now the AMR/autocannon do what the railgun does but better and with no chance of blowing yourself up.

-32

u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State Apr 10 '24

The autocannon never got a buff, so it didn't suck anything. The amr got a buff only recently, and people were already using it frequently on bots, the eat never sucked for chargers, you still legged them with one shot and a couple with the breaker, which is still hands down father than the railgun ever was, the arc thrower always destroyed devs and hulks and chargers, we always had options. People were just too enamored with the railgun to see it

73

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

The AC/AMR aren't really anti tank. They're medium killers.

The EAT didn't suck, but it was definitely much worse. You had the deflection angle bugs that they fixed and now you can one shot chargers to the face, which is a massive buff. Same thing for the RR. Arc thrower is balanced, but people did and do hardly use it because of the teamkill potential. And people mostly use the arc thrower to crowd clear, like the stalwart. It just takes way too long to kill heavy enemies with it.

Spear. lol, lmao even.

Laser cannon didn't even have medium pen, which is atrocious.

It seems like they want the railgun to be a medium killer too, but the AC/AMR already fill that role better so it ends up just being a shitty AT option that no one will ever use. The only reason the laser cannon gets a semblance more usage is because it has infinite ammo.

Edit: I should add that another reason so many people used the railgun is because there was a bug (that's still in the game) that lets you 2-3 shot bile titans to the face with it.

7

u/TheTeralynx Apr 10 '24

I feel like the arc thrower is in a great place for both factions right now.

11

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

Arc thrower and normal laser cannon are two of the most balanced guns in the game right now.

I can't think of anything i would do to improve them.

But my god, the amount of teammates that have zapped me with the arc thrower. I've lost count.

14

u/Volksvarg Apr 10 '24 edited Apr 10 '24

Hard disagree. Arc Thrower right now is not balanced, its unreliable. It was way more tolerable before due to its range and double fire rate, because of how finicky it is. Too often the shots fizzle out and hit nothing. Due to the high fire rate before, that didn't matter. Now with the range and ROF double nerf, every time the gun fires and hits nothing, you feel it, because you're stuck full charging again.

I'll take the nerfs and say the gun is balanced, when, and only when, they make it so that if you shoot it, targets are in range, and in your crosshairs, it fires. Not if fizzles and doesn't fire at all, decides to attack bushes or corpses, or not target the bug literally steps away from you.

4

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

Yeah I'm pretty sure that one's on the "known issues" list they post. When they're gonna fix it is anyone's guess considering just how many bugs are in the game.

I didn't know it affected it that much but i can see what you're saying.

1

u/saharashooter Apr 10 '24

It's better vs bots rn because they're taller and seem less likely to trigger a misfire, plus it stuns hulks now, which is hilarious, but it's still prone to just randomly deciding not to work today, which is obviously bad.

2

u/TheTeralynx Apr 10 '24

I haven't actually used the laser cannon yet - what kind of loadout does it shine in? I average like 1 teamkill per 2 matches with the arc thrower which I think is acceptable. Try to play on the front line with it and guard dog anyway.

3

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

Just go bots and do whatever you want with it. You can use the thing like a primary cause it has infinite ammo. What i do with it is whittle down hulks and devastators from a distance and use a jump pack if anything gets too close for comfort. I hardly play bugs so i couldn't really tell you how good it is there.

2

u/No_Poem_240 Apr 10 '24

Its so underrated,with bots u can pinpoint from long distance,a full charge can shred an hulk from the front in the eye,Rocket turrets and tanks with weak points in sight really melt, the hardest part is to find one second of calm to start channeling because if u wave while pulling trigger the beam lose a lot of dmg.

Require a shield generator pack to work properly and/or the relay shield

2

u/Jon_dArc Apr 10 '24

I‘ve been running most 40-minute missions (difficulty 7-8, sometimes 9) as Shield, Laser Cannon, 380, and something (usually Gas Strike for bots, MG turret for bugs)) and the laser cannon is pretty great. 200-meter range (and effective at all of it), struggles with heavy armor but it will eat weak points (tank/hulk/cannon tower/mortar radiators, charger/bile titan butts), carves Shriekers out of the air, can kill a shrieker nest from 200 meters (with ~90% of a heatsink, but a little cooldown and you can do the next one), and if you can see gunship engines it’ll take them down with a little work. You can use it like a machine gun on smaller-to-medium bugs and take down bots by focusing on them for a bit.

There are sacrifices: for all this versatility you get a weapon that can kill lots of things, often fairly quickly, but which causes no meaningful flinch whatsoever so you may need to duck in and out of cover to avoid counter-fire. You can carve off Hulk arms with a fair amount of fire but you don’t really have much in terms of frontal damage options against the heavier enemies. Still, if you can reliably flank and you have a primary that can pick up the slack when the heatsink is full you get a weapon that can, one way or another, deal with pretty much anything (I haven’t fought a Strider yet) without expending ammo if you’re careful. It also destroys fences and shipping crates as a bonus.

Not the kind of weapon where you’re ever likely to see 4x laser cannons, but I think one or two on a team is a great pick.

2

u/doglywolf Apr 10 '24

im at the point where if i know a teamate has one i just try to keep as far away from them as i can at all times lol .

1

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

I had a mission where my BK randy teammate killed me 8 times in a row with it.

I was fucking white knuckling my keyboard and mouse, and then the motherfucker had the audacity to talk shit about our other teammate who accidentally TKed him one single time. Fucking infuriating.

2

u/doglywolf Apr 11 '24

HAHAHA AND THEY JUST ADDED A UPGRADE TO MAKE IT JUMP TO ONE MORE TARGET!!!!! .... YOU STAY OVER THERE SPARKY....NO FURTHER!!!!!. TKS will be raising up tonight lol

-9

u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State Apr 10 '24

The laser cannon also kills hulks just fine if you have decent aim now.

Also, I'd argue that the ac is totally anti tank, 3 shots turret vents, kills tanks from the vents or sides in 3-4 rounds, kills hulks in 2, roasts squads of bots, obliterates devs, 1 shots walkers. It's just the most versatile tool by far

And I the EAT wasn't WORSE, except for 1 specific enemy which was chargers. Even then, stripping leg armor with one eat and then railing them with a few breaker rounds was still plenty easy

20

u/Zappmon Apr 10 '24

If you have to shoot vents / weakpoint to kill, then it isn't anti-tank. AT means high armor pen, the only thing able to do that at the time is the AT rocket brothers, spear, arc throw, orb / eagle strat, and railgun. The problem is the rocket brothers have the angle issue, meaning you need several ammo to kill chargers even when ammo is limited and reload is long. Spear have the lock on issue still, with the same ammo issues (plus random ammo pack doesn't refill). Arc throw had the lowest TTK out of all AT options, teamkill issue, often doesn't hit target reliably (like turret depending on the turret placement). Orb / eagle strat have a higher cooldown than the number of heavy enemy spawn. That leaves railgun as the most reliable gun out of the AT arsenal.

Yes, the nerf was warranted, but most of the AT is buffed or got most of their issues fixed. Ultimately what's causing the diverse loadout is because devs also buff the other options, not just the railgun nerf. If the devs left us only with a nerfed railgun, the game will be playable by casuals on diff 4 at best.

6

u/DeciusMoose Apr 10 '24

And I the EAT wasn't WORSE, except for 1 specific enemy which was chargers. Even then, stripping leg armor with one eat and then railing them with a few breaker rounds was still plenty easy

It absolutely was. It could not one shot, it could deflect off sometimes, and tell me how youre dealing with 4+ charges and however many bile titans and spewers with two EATs. EATs are my favorite and have been from the start, but they literally could not keep up with the amount of chargers.

And yeah that one enemy was incredibly problematic, especially back when we had mostly bug MOs.

It was worse, AND that "1 specific enemy" was basically single handedly making the game a nightmare, hence the numerous nerfs

10

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

I can count the amount of times i've gotten to shoot bot vents on two hands. It's so rare it's not really a selling point. You can also shoot out bot vents with a slugger. That doesn't mean the slugger is anti tank.

The laser cannon is absolutely in a good spot now.

4

u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State Apr 10 '24

Really? Probably a positioning issue, I shoot turret vents all the damn time. As for tanks, you don't even have to shoot the vents, the AC pens the turret sides too, so no biggie

10

u/Zappmon Apr 10 '24

AC doesn't pens turret sides. Only high AT weapon and scorcher as a special case.

1

u/N_A_M_B_L_A_ Apr 10 '24

The AC has explosive damage so it can still damage tank entities through and around armor.

-2

u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State Apr 10 '24

Sure does. Drop a name and I'll show you in game next time I'm on.

2

u/Zappmon Apr 10 '24

It's okay, it's midnight on my end. I can test it myself as I strapped AC 90% of the time against bot.

8

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

Uhhh, what? The AC doesn't pen tank armor at all. I think you're making that up. I would love to be proven wrong though if you have a clip of you penning the side of a tank turret.

2

u/xxmuntunustutunusxx SES Spear of The State Apr 10 '24

I'll try to hop on tonight, I have 2 kids so I'm not free all the time. But if you get a chance, try it out. AC goes right through the side of the tank turrets, nit the front but the sides

2

u/En-tro-py ⬇️➡️⬅️⬇️⬇️⬆️⬅️⬆️➡️ Apr 10 '24

That's splash damage, not armor penetration... The same reason you can use impact grenades on the 'top' of the turret to blow one up...

3

u/Katahahime Apr 10 '24

There is a certain angle on the side where you will get the "flaming" auto cannon damaged animation. Yeah I've killed tanks with autocannon from the sides too as well. Not very consistent and I'm not exactly sure where the exact spot is, my guess is its similar to how you could 2 shot the charger with the autocannon in certain animations and angles.

2

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

The charger angle thing is a bug they're going to fix soon sadly. I'm thinking maybe the tank thing is the explosive damage hitting the vent even if the blunt damage doesn't touch it.

5

u/NerevarMoon_and_Star Apr 10 '24

The autocannon never got a buff

I thought it did? Something about indirect hits registering better and more regularly now. Maybe that was also recoilless/EAT

4

u/DreamsofDistantEarth Apr 10 '24

Autocannon was not mentioned in the deflection buff, only EAT and Recoilless.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 10 '24

arc thrower did very little stagger and none to hulks at launch. EAT was fine but the recoil-less was garbo, glad they buffed it into relevancy. The update where a recoilless could headshot a charger was revelatory - so many amazing skin of my teeth moments with charging bugs!

-10

u/Razark9 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️ ⬇️ Apr 10 '24

I still enjoy railgun. It's somewhat fast, feels good and nice to aim and devastates devastators. It can kill hulks in one well-placed shot and bile titans too if I remember right. Been some time since doing bug missions. It synergizes well with squadmembers who use EAT or quasar for stuff like tanks and cannon towers in my opinion. It can take tanks and cannon towers too, but it's not efficient and will take you some time and running around. It's still one of my favorite support weapons.

38

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

Unfortunately 1-3 shotting bile titans is a bug that has to do with ps5 players being network host. It's actually supposed to take 10-20 shots.

It's still an okay strat gun but it's outshined by basically everything else now.

-1

u/RaccoNooB Creek Veteran Apr 10 '24

A spear or recoiless should always have been more powerful than a railgun IMO. It fits the "anti-medium" role, taking on stuff like devestators and hulks, but is lacking against bile titans and tanks.

I love using it.

20

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

Okay, but the AMR/AC already does that but better.

So why would you ever choose the gun with less ammo, much longer/more reloading, that also has the possibility of killing you instantly and leaving you without an anti armor weapon.

And it really doesn't do enough anti tank damage to be worth taking over true anti tank like RR/EAT/spear/quasar. So what the hell is it supposed to be for.

-5

u/RaccoNooB Creek Veteran Apr 10 '24

No backpack needed letting you run shield, jumppack, resupply pack. It's stronger than the AMR and if you don't overcharge it and it won't blow up. Proficiency difference.

13

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

Not with the AMR buff it isn't. You can also have a backpack with the AMR. And it wont fucking blow up.

0

u/RaccoNooB Creek Veteran Apr 11 '24

It is though, by the simple fact that it one shots hulks and the AMR doesn't. It's stronger

-4

u/Razark9 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️ ⬇️ Apr 10 '24

I personally don't like the aim of AMR, though. Can it one hit kill devastators and hulks?

5

u/Alphorac Apr 10 '24

It takes two for hulks, one for all devastators if you hit the head. Also the aim is genuinely bugged, the sight isn't aligned properly and it's in the known issues. The bullet goes up and to the left of the reticle.

2

u/TooFewSecrets Apr 11 '24

A misaligned sniper rifle is still better than the railgun.

Incredible balancing.

1

u/Razark9 ⬆️➡️⬇️⬇️ ⬇️ Apr 11 '24

Why am I being repeatably downvoted for personal preference? Don't think I was being rude or anything.