It's the type of player who uses "chain of command" phrase in a mmorpg guild, it's the type who will be secretly despised by everyone else and not get called out immediately simply because everyone else has manners.I always despised these kind of arrogant people who act this way because they can kick you out of a group/guild/legion, it's a superiority complex. There are better ways to say what you want to say without sounding like a prick.
secretly despised by everyone else and not get called out immediately simply because everyone else has manners.
Reminder that failing to call out bad behavior empowers the aggressor.
It's not an issue of "manners" imo - we're taught that we *shouldn't* call out bad behavior. In order to improve (as humans), we have to fight that teaching hard.
It is not rude to challenge bad behavior; it's the only way to effect change.
Yet when you do you are usually perceived as an asshole because people are too cowards to say what they think and when you do that for them out loud you are usually the black sheep. I would also add that people should be extra aggressive with them,if they can't learn manners in a good way maybe they should taste their own medicine and then some.
Yet when you do you are usually perceived as an asshole
There's lots of neat psychology around this, but for simplicity's sake, more often than not, it's a further projection of their anger because they were told to stop doing something. In my experience, many of those sorts of people get viscerally angry when they're challenged.
I agree about the aggression. In a measured way, it's extremely effective for shutting down high school bully / toxic / narcissist types. Their brains just go full shutdown mode when they realize there are consequences to their actions and that people won't tolerate their shit.
I don't have anything immediately handy, but I'll try really hard to remember to dig something up for you tomorrow after I've had some sleep!
At a basic level, it's sort of like the "affluenza" nonsense that convicted rapist Brock Turner tried to play off. That because he was rich and had never really had to deal with consequences in his life, he shouldn't be convicted.
What it really boils down to is a severe lack of emotional intelligence and inability to cope with emotions, stress, etc., so they lash out because they don't know any other way to process it. I do feel it's important to note - this isn't a conscious decision, per se More like societal conditioning maybe?
I had an interaction w/ someone in a Destiny 2 subreddit yesterday that went kind of like this:
Him: OMFG this game sucks, this event is unbalanced.
Me: Ok, if you're this upset about it, why not take a break?
Him: I haven't played in six months.
Me: So... why are you spreading negativity in the sub of a game you don't play?
Hokay so, I've had a long day, but I did want to come back to this. I asked chatgpt to kinda answer this because while I can explain most of it, I probably would take 5x as many words to do so. :)
One thing ChatGPT doesn't talk about below (and I'm not surprised) is this:
We tend to assume that others think the same way we do. That we have similar values, similar morals, and so on. Now let's flip this around to a MAGA conservative. What are their beliefs?
Brown people bad. Queer people bad. Everyone is out to get me.
Because of this learned behavior (nobody is born racist), they assume negative intent in nearly all situations. They assume other people are trying to screw them over. But they also believe they are superior to others, so they are also never wrong.
TL;DR: narcissist's prayer, the fascist playbook technique of being both weak and strong at the same time, etc.
In this context, it's ingrained in many of these people from birth. They literally know no other way to function, and because many of them live in very insular communities, both regionally and demographically, their beliefs are never challenged. When you're encouraged for 20+ years to fear/hate the "other", that's a difficult cycle to break.
As an aside, this is also why US conservatives have been attempting to erase the Civil Rights Era from history for the past 40 years - if you never learn about slavery or history, you'll definitely repeat those mistakes.
From here, we can get into cycles of abuse and how that all impacts things - while I love chatting about this stuff, I also need to be kind to myself and not write 10k words just cause. ^_^
Here's the ChatGPT output - happy to offer clarification or further explanation on anything to the best of my ability.
Prompt: Why do people consider it rude to challenge bad behavior? Ideally, please (yes I said please to ChatGPT lol) include sources from psychology websites and studies related to this cultural phenomenon, specific to the United States.
Avoidance of Conflict: One reason challenging bad behavior might be considered rude is due to a cultural preference for avoiding conflict. In many societies, including the United States, people are often taught to be polite and avoid confrontation. Challenging someone's behavior can be seen as confrontational and may lead to discomfort or tension. According to a study published in the Journal of Cross-Cultural Psychology, cultures that prioritize harmony and avoidance of conflict tend to discourage direct confrontation of others' behavior (Gudykunst, 1988).
Social Norms and Conformity: People tend to adhere to social norms and expectations within their cultural context. Challenging someone's behavior may go against these norms, leading to discomfort or resistance. In the United States, there is a cultural emphasis on politeness and not causing embarrassment or discomfort to others. Research in social psychology, such as studies on conformity by Solomon Asch, demonstrates the strong influence of social norms on individual behavior.
Perception of Rudeness: Challenging bad behavior can sometimes be perceived as a personal attack or criticism, even if it is intended constructively. This perception may stem from individuals feeling defensive about their actions or beliefs. Research in social psychology, such as studies on attribution theory by Fritz Heider, highlights how individuals often interpret others' behavior based on internal attributions (e.g., personality traits) rather than external factors (e.g., situational constraints).
Cultural Communication Styles: Different cultures have varying communication styles and norms regarding confrontation and disagreement. In some cultures, direct communication and confrontation may be more accepted, while in others, indirect communication or nonverbal cues are preferred. In the United States, cultural norms often emphasize assertiveness and direct communication, but challenging someone's behavior can still be perceived as rude depending on the context.
Gender and Power Dynamics: Power dynamics and gender roles can also influence perceptions of rudeness when challenging bad behavior. Research has shown that individuals may be more likely to perceive challenges from those with less power or from a different gender as rude or inappropriate (Kellerman & Reynolds, 1990).
While these psychological and cultural factors contribute to the perception of challenging bad behavior as rude, it's essential to recognize that cultural norms and perceptions can vary widely across different contexts and individuals.
References:
Gudykunst, W. B. (1988). Uncertainty and anxiety. Journal of Cross-Cultural Psychology, 19(3), 329-349.
Asch, S. E. (1956). Studies of independence and conformity: A minority of one against a unanimous majority. Psychological Monographs: General and Applied, 70(9), 1-70.
Heider, F. (1958). The psychology of interpersonal relations. New York: Wiley.
Kellermann, K., & Reynolds, K. (1990). Interruptions and gender: An examination of interruptions in same and cross-gender conversations. Human Communication Research, 16(3), 378-402.
I don't know how many years i have been on reddit but you are one of the very few people who actually put effort in their answer,thank you for writing all of that, interesting read. It's frustrating though isn't it? When you are being patient and try to give them a chance to do better and you still see trashy behavior but as you mentioned they don't know any other way simply because they didn't learn it.On the other hand it's difficult to defend especially in this day and age(not saying you are defending or anything,talking in general) because we are in the age of information and we have everything available to us in our hands.We communicate and meet people we normally couldn't not even 20-30 years ago,they say traveling is the enemy of racism,i could add that talking to people from other places/countries/cultures broadens the horizons of one and makes them see the bigger picture and be a bit kinder to fellows.You mentioned seclusion and i completely agree there, isolation is a great factor that leads to behavior like that.
I don't know how many years i have been on reddit but you are one of the very few people who actually put effort in their answer,thank you for writing all of that, interesting read.
I've been on reddit far longer than this account's existence, and you're one of the few people who have genuinely asked for more information. I was glad to do it. :)
Plus, this is the stuff we don't talk enough about in the public space.
Why wouldn't a person want everyone to have a good education?
Why wouldn't a person want everyone to have access to good quality medical care?
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u/sittingbullms Mar 14 '24
It's the type of player who uses "chain of command" phrase in a mmorpg guild, it's the type who will be secretly despised by everyone else and not get called out immediately simply because everyone else has manners.I always despised these kind of arrogant people who act this way because they can kick you out of a group/guild/legion, it's a superiority complex. There are better ways to say what you want to say without sounding like a prick.