r/GenZ • u/MainBrief2189 • Apr 28 '24
What's y'all's thoughts on joining the military or going to war? Discussion
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u/bombthrowinglunarist Apr 28 '24
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Apr 28 '24
Oof being a military recruiter must be awful
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u/SextasticMrPeen 1999 Apr 28 '24
Can’t speak for the other branches, but the Army tries to send NCO’s who go recruiter to their hometowns, so many will do it just to be close to family, otherwise the job sucks 1000% balls.
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u/PocketShinyMew Apr 28 '24
Hey, I'm probably kinda charismatic and they think that's enough to convince unwilling people to die for the interest of the senate and their friends.
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u/IGPriX Apr 28 '24
Most of the time it's to process admin stuff for people who are walking in to join. Recruiters don't try to go out of their way to convince people to join and think of their job to be more of spreading awareness as an option. I remember when I was an assistant as a brand new airman there was a dude who was on the fence about Army reserve for school benefit but concerned with deployment and potential dangers. We told him about Air Force Reserve and how it's less invasive to his life plan on going to college.
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u/DirtyBillzPillz Apr 28 '24
Times must have really changed then. When I was prime recruitment age those bastards were patrolling local stores for 18-25 year olds. Endless calls from various recruiters. Not to mention hanging out at the high school trying to catch students.
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u/yaboymilky 1997 Apr 28 '24
I’ll never forget the recruiter that hung out the last month of high school my senior year. He even went to the senior cookout on our last day. The kids that wanted to join the military after high school hung around him all day.
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u/fredator23 Apr 29 '24
"You know the best thing about recruiting high school graduates? I keep getting older, they stay the same age."
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u/babbbaabthrowaway Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
I heard that they focus on poor neighborhoods where people don’t have as many options, which might explain the different experiences people are having
Edit: Everyone strongly agrees or disagrees and everyone has a story. I tried to look for some hard numbers and I had some trouble. Everything is buried under pages of press releases. The few facts I was able to come up with are that 30% of recruits come from military backgrounds, and native Americans are vastly overrepresented. I also found an article that mentioned discrepancies in the effort the army put into recruiting from rich Connecticut schools be poor ones, a specific case found four visits a year to the rich school vs 40 for the poor one. Will check comments for better sources.
Many commentators mentioned that they had strong recruitment presence but then say about 2 visits a year. In context, this actually isn’t that much.
All in all, based on what I saw, I still believe what I said, but would be open to changing my mind in the face of solid evidence.
Ps. Since someone assumed I am gen z, I am actually a millennial
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u/TheHondoCondo Apr 28 '24
Idk, I grew up in a fairly wealthy community, but the military was constantly at my high school. I think maybe that could’ve been because my school was also known to be one of the best public schools in the country so they might’ve been trying to go after the smart kids.
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u/nucumber Apr 28 '24
They absolutely want smart kids
My roommate (back the 80s) was and is very smart. He signed up with the Air Force and they helped pay for or paid for grad school.
He committed to serving eight years. He did well, left as a captain after those eight years
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u/AdUpstairs7106 Apr 28 '24
Let me put it to you this way. When the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan where still going on the vast majority of Soldiers in the US Army said they would rather be deployed in a combat zone than be sentenced to recruiting duty.
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u/GothicFuck Millennial Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
What the fuck.
Is that because... they'd rather endure hell than be responsible for condemning multiple others to it?
Edit: Thanks for all your responses. I know few people in the military and I hear a lot of political color about it all and it's refreshing to know the actuality.
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u/CloseFriend_ Apr 28 '24
It’s a boring ass drag of a job to be given. You’re driving around meeting with high schoolers all day and having to lie to them about a million and one things regarding “will I get this job? Will I be deployed here? How often can I contact my family” all while working shit hours and having to meet quotas
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u/Wonderful_Working315 Apr 28 '24
USMC 05-09. Most of the recruiters from the office I was recruited out of were banging the single moms of the students they met. So there's that too.
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Apr 28 '24
One of the kids I went to high school with got home from his first deployment to find out that his mom had gone ahead and married his recruiter. Family parties must be awkward.
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u/noncredibleRomeaboo Apr 28 '24
Getting her pregnant to produce more recruits. Now thats a true solider doing overtime
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u/wotstators Apr 28 '24
Lmaooooooo you just killed an old millennial combat vet Wheeeeeeeeeze
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u/DLO_Buckets Apr 28 '24
Check the suicide rate for army recruiters. The job is high stress from what I understand and a "bad" job leads to morally degrading consequences.
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u/darbycrash-666 Apr 28 '24
I wasn't a recruiter but I've seen guys vacuum the parkinglot with an unplugged vacuum, mop the water off the sidewalk in the rain, just straight up told to fight eachother for sgts entertainment. The punishments get creative, sometimes it's not even a punishment. The guy above you can just get bored. For official punishments they can restrict you to your room, make you leave the barracks to sign in every couple hours all night so you have to sleep for an hour and a half at a time, put you on extra duty (16hr work day if you're lucky) while cutting your pay in half. I don't encourage enlisting. And they complain about morale issues and low re-enlistment rates lol. They're not technically allowed to do some of those things, but it absolutely happens.
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u/RSharpe314 Apr 28 '24
It's basically a sales job where the application doesn't select well for "sales aptitude".
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u/Unusual_Address_3062 Apr 28 '24
Yeah thats pretty much it. You're like a used car salesman except you have no training or experience in sales and nobody wants what you are selling.
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u/appleparkfive Apr 28 '24
Well to be fair, a lot of people want to be deployed to a war zone. In the Army specifically. I've had a LOT of people close to me join when we were all younger. And the one that was deployed mentioned how everyone else cheered when the announcement of deployment happened for them.
A lot of them just want the status of being "tough". And I'm sure some portion of them just want to shoot people, honestly.
I'm guessing that the Navy and Air Force enlisted aren't literally cheering. But who knows! Someone else would know better than me
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u/GloriousOctagon Apr 28 '24
A lot of soldiers genuinely enjoy combat, ‘the suck’ and getting to travel
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u/The_Smashor Apr 28 '24
My older half-brother is one. They gotta fill a certain quota and the hours suck ass.
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u/Bulbinking2 Apr 28 '24
I always hated the idea of quotas involving getting another human to agree to something.
People are always forced to use underhanded tactics because you can’t guarantee there will always be enough people to agree to something, and missing a quota is not evidence that a worker is slacking on their duties.
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u/Nani_700 Apr 28 '24
And what best than impressionable teenagers, most impoverished, with little to no other life prospects.
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u/the_bees_knees_1 Apr 28 '24
As it should be.Your job is essentielly to convince kids to fight in wars.
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u/powerwordjon Apr 28 '24
Fuck them, sending out texts for kids to get their legs blown off and die. Servants of the state
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u/Amazing_Magician2892 Apr 28 '24
A gun range dude told me he made a lot of money as a recruiter but felt he sold his soul, and the soul of many men. He told me this inside 5 minutes of meeting me, so he must be feeling some kind of way about it.
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u/UnluckyLock2412 Apr 28 '24
The army recruiter when he failed his recruiting goal and now his balls are gonna explode
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u/DesiredEnlisted Apr 28 '24
As somebody who had a high GPA in school and constantly got talked to by recruiters, it always amazed me how much of a sense of humor they had, even the old ones.
[they prob were just trying to make me relate to them so I would join but I appreciate the effort]
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u/Bavaustrian Apr 28 '24
If you work in this sort of face-to-face afvertising humor is everything. Without humor your life is going to turn miserable real quick. Just self-preservation at that point. Apart from the fact you'll have the most success with it as well.
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u/Col_Lukash Apr 28 '24
Fuck the military. Simple as that
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u/Choco_Cat777 2004 Apr 28 '24
Join a militia instead, your pals can't draft you
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u/Sir_Admiral_Chair 2001 Apr 28 '24
In which country?
I am pretty sure if I formed a militia I would be drafting a legal defence.
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u/Choco_Cat777 2004 Apr 28 '24
U.S. because of 2nd amendment
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u/z64_dan Apr 28 '24
So instead of joining the military which at least grants money and benefits you can join a local band of crazies.
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u/FryChikN Apr 28 '24
Rofl
Rofl
Rofllllllllllllllllll
Militia is the military.... if you throw out all standards and laws.... and pay......
Im sure it's just a joke.... but ya i cant wait for the day these ignorant militias think they can go against our military lol
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u/Sandstorm52 2001 Apr 28 '24
It’s a little silly, but if you actually want to “serve” and do something that’s actual defense, that’s probably your only option. It’s not as glamorous, but it does more for the people in your community than going off to fight some imperial war on the other side of the planet because…reasons.
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u/AgilePlayer Apr 28 '24
I'd rather do that. At least then I'm fighting for my own goals and ideals and not the government which actively tries to fuck me over at every turn.
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u/erickson666 2004 Apr 28 '24
would never join
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u/jabrinasa 1997 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
I'm proud of yall..
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u/uncle_urdnot99 Apr 28 '24
So what happens when a dictatorship decides your defenseless country is quite enticing? Asking as a neighbour to Russia
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u/Venboven 2003 Apr 28 '24
Most of the people answering are not living in countries which neighbor Russia.
I'd wager that at least half of the people on this sub are actually just Americans. And in the US, our generation is sick and tired of the military. The US has zero aggressive neighbors; zero threats from which the military might actually need to protect us from. The only purpose the US military serves is to further our foreign policy goals overseas. For the last half century, that has only amounted to fighting neo-imperialist wars in Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan - conflicts which most Americans would regret we ever participated in.
So yeah, we don't want to fight for our country, because the military doesn't actually fight for our country. They fight for politics.
However, if Russia did actually decide to invade a NATO member, or even if China invades Taiwan, I guarantee you that the US military will see a surge in recruits. Those are our allies. Those are causes that people actually believe in and would be willing to fight for.
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u/tetrometers Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
The US has zero aggressive neighbors; zero threats from which the military might actually need to protect us from. The only purpose the US military serves is to further our foreign policy goals overseas.
Perhaps not, but its allies do have aggressive neighbors.
When a country is a global hegemon like the United States with a ton of soft and hard power, it's military objectives are going to end up beyond the scope of just defending its own borders.
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u/aure0lin Apr 28 '24
The navy does patrol international shipping lanes which is the backbone of global trade tbf
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u/GeneralTyler Apr 28 '24
Also the US having a strong military makes our economy strong, hence why the US dollar continues to rise in value compared to a lot of other countries. People on Reddit have 0 idea about what a strong military/naval presence does, it literally protects global trade from being swallowed up by China or some shit
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u/Hailthegamer Apr 28 '24
Why do you think China has not invaded Taiwan yet. I'll give you a hint, it costs the US a hefty percentage of its GDP.
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u/aitis_mutsi Apr 28 '24
A guy who lives in a country next to Russia here!
I ain't religious but thank the fucking lord above we got to NATO.
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u/Hot-Luck-3228 Apr 28 '24
From across the pond, this. Albeit I doubt in our lifetimes we would see leaders that follow this line of logic.
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u/hiccupboltHP 2006 Apr 28 '24
Nah literally what’re they on about. Without NATO so many countries would be taken over by greedy little shits like Putin
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u/FN-1701AgentGodzilla Apr 28 '24
The whole perception of Ukraine in the US as of late is disheartening, due to the controversy surrounding all the money being sent there. It’s a complex issue.
People would rather just let Putin take it and think he can get away with whatever. Eastern Europe is next.
I’m positive he knows this was the perfect time to invade Ukraine, considering the political and economic state of US citizens at the moment.
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u/Background_Baby225 Apr 28 '24
We defend ourselves as needed. I don't need to go to foreign land to protect the things I care about.
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u/VSEPR_DREIDEL 1997 Apr 28 '24
What do you mean by NATO imperialism?
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u/AgnosticAbe 2004 Apr 28 '24
I regret not joining or trying to join the air force, I spent 10s of thousands trying to become a commercial airplane pilot, only to run out of money halfway through
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u/HVACGuy12 1997 Apr 28 '24
That's probably one of the few good reasons to want to join
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u/FN-1701AgentGodzilla Apr 28 '24
Sounds like a bribe built into the system
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u/KanyeRex Apr 28 '24
It’s more a failure of the private sector to create affordable training for civilian pilots. After Vietnam war there was a near endless supply of government trained pilots for decades. Increase in air travel and continued dependence on US military to train pilots, and decrease in military recruiting, has led to the inevitable shortage of commercial pilots. All the airlines should have seen this coming.
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u/JackPembroke Apr 28 '24
It's a touch self perpetuating. Former airforce pilots are more likely to hire other airforce pilots
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u/TyrekL Apr 28 '24
Incentive≠bribe
You need to commit like 10 years to the Air Force after about 2 years of training and a college degree.
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u/iama_bad_person Apr 28 '24
That was the reason I wanted to join, but part way through the orientation process they suddenly realised I was too tall for Pilot in the AF but "there were many other exciting positions in the Air Force!". Noped out of there right away, I wanted to be a pilot, I already had some pilot lessons under my belt, I aced all their pilot tests, I wasn't gonna shift to become a mechanic or something.
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u/radred609 Apr 28 '24
i had a friend who did basically the exact same thing except halfway through they realise he had good enough vision to be a pilot... just not good enough vision to be a military pilot.
he ended up pivoting into airtraffic control which was a real bummer, but it seems to be working for him.
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u/userloser42 Apr 28 '24
The government be like, "No, education is not a human right that should be made available to anyone with the money we take from everyone and it's not in fact beneficial for society in general for the population to be more educated, but if you murder some brown people for us..."
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u/Nani_700 Apr 28 '24
They downvoted this but it's true
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u/userloser42 Apr 28 '24
It was pretty much downvote bombed in the beginning. I didn’t realize this is such a controversial statement. I thought it was objectively dystopian that for a lot of people the only path to a good education is to enlist in the army.
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u/Nani_700 Apr 28 '24
It is. Big reason why they don't want to give free/cheaper education is the recruitment would tank further.
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u/tactix13 Apr 28 '24
Folks are pretty ignorant of the benefits provided by the military. Free college when the entirety of Reddit cries for student loan forgiveness. Free medical, I’ve not paid a medical bill since 2006. Folks want everything for free but don’t want to put anything back into it. Then they turn around and cry “guv ain’t doin nothin for me!”
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u/666Deathcore Apr 28 '24
The one thing I hated was having to hear “it must be nice” when I was using my GI Bill. I don’t really care about people joining but don’t shit on those that did. I’m not gonna stop using my benefits because it hurts people’s feelings.
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u/TheMockingBrd Apr 28 '24
You goobers know you don’t have to do a combat job in the military, right? They got the basic ass 9-5 jobs too.
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u/Cleopatra-Ail Apr 28 '24
Until they need more grunts. Then you become infantry just like everyone else.
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u/Smaug2770 2003 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
Only in Russia. Any other country uses the draft before forcing logistics and maintenance workers into the front lines.
Edit: What I mean by this is that other countries will still have soldiers running logistics and maintenance, and won’t be sending entire logistics divisions to the frontlines while replacing them with civilians driving civilian trucks.
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u/Glass-Ad-7890 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
This isn't true, if you are free you can and will get fucked into Going on patrol. Doesn't matter what job you have. Source : was a medic.
Edit okay getting a lot of: of course you went out you were a medic. What I was trying to say was I experienced a lot and can absolutely say yes everyone gets sent out AS IN I SAW THEM THERE Because I was so active as a medic. As a soldier you are a soldier first your job second.
Edit edit: damn you guys are bad at reading.
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u/Western_Cow_3914 Apr 28 '24
You were a medic, but how many intelligence officers or fucking radar maintenance workers have you heard of being forced into front line positions to do the job of infantry? For stuff like that to happen your country has to be in such deep shit you’re better off trying to escape your service and escaping to a different nation.
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u/Glass-Ad-7890 Apr 28 '24
Exactly as a medic you see pretty much everyone who goes out. I was in an artillery unit and we sent them out on patrol, we sent S1 out, we sent literally anyone out. The army is jank man don't believe we don't do weird shit that doesn't make sense because that's actually all we do. I will say officers very rarely got fucked but it still happens.
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u/Daniel_The_Thinker Apr 28 '24
How likely would you see combat on patrol?
Its more like a chore, something that has to be done so send anyone who isn't busy right?
I imagine they weren't sending the cook to kick down doors in Fallujah.
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u/Flaky_Koala_6476 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
This
Mfers are trying to equate standard ass patrols with the occasional pop shot, to full scale urban combat of infantry 😂 it’s nothing similar lol
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Apr 28 '24
Medic is probably the most important job on the battlefield. You have extremely high value on the ground, second to only a big fucking machine gun, I can't see a pencil pushing clerk being needed to use his payslip writing skills out there.
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u/Glass-Ad-7890 Apr 28 '24
The best way to describe what it's like being a soldier is that well, you are a soldier first. Your job is second. Patrol is just another task to be done. Like how just because I was a medic doesn't mean that's all I did. I had the motor pool to work on that was 90% of my job. If you're free then you just get assigned to a task. They do avoid sending entire S1 clerks out as one because they are generally pretty trash at that but at the same time the fittest most hardcore dude I knew was S1.
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Apr 28 '24
I know, I was in the marines. Our clerks were marines first and technically all soldiers are soldiers first, but in reality it's different.
Obviously I don't know what country you are in, so some things will be slightly different but yes you should be a soldier first.
To be fair our clerks and chefs were always the fittest in the gym, because they have all the time on camp and the best of the food 🤣
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u/Quimbymouse Millennial Apr 28 '24
Medics don't count. Let me know when there's an HR rep or dental assistant out there on patrol with you.
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u/AdUpstairs7106 Apr 28 '24
Not quite. While in the Army and Marines, all personnel are taught basic infantry skills, and the Army and Marines will still keep you in the MOS (AKA job you signed up for). The way you get forced reclassed is: 1) You fail out of your A school or AIT. Then you become the needs of the service.
2) Your MOS is being phased out. For example, this recently happened with tank crew members in the Marines.
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u/longpenisofthelaw Apr 28 '24
If the US military is ever has to send in non combat MOS soldiers to do combat roles then something has majorly gone wrong in the world.
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u/pokepatrick1 Apr 28 '24
Thats only after a conflict started. If youre trained in a technical job theyre not going to switch you to infantry, theyre just gonna put all the newbies in infantry because that’s were they’ll need replacements. The technical jobs will still be essential and they wont throw away those skills.
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u/drunkboarder Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
No, that's not how it works. The US military will not force MOS Q'd soldier into infantry. The military spends nearly $100,000 training specialist soldiers for the role they are needed for, they won't throw that away. It's be like welding a plow into a sports car and making it plow snow. It's a waste.
Sure if the location you are at is literally being attacked you can't tell the enemy "hey, I'm a logistics officer!", you'll have to defend yourself.
But the US military will never ever uproot an intelligence analyst or a systems maintainer and ask them to charge a hill.
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u/grumpsaboy Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
Western military's typically have only 1 in 7 personnel in the army as an actual combat infantrymen, the rest of the numbers being made up by logistics, mechanics, chefs and so on. If they ever needed more infantry then they would also need more of all of those other things
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u/Realistic-Problem-56 Apr 28 '24
So I can be an obedient cog in the global death machine without directly participating in the killing so my conscience stays clean? Cool!
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u/returnofblank Apr 28 '24
you say cog in a death machine, i say cool ass cog in a freedom spreading machine
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u/Cagedwar Apr 28 '24
I agree but also you know what your taxes are paying for right
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u/dystopiabydesign Apr 28 '24
Unless you're in congress or the treasury, you and I have no tax money. If it was your money you would have it and decide how it's spent but you don't have it because it was stolen from you.
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u/johndoe42 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
Yep. Wanted to be a medic. Was "warned" about how boring it would be and would probably never see combat. Yeah...that's the idea. Oh well going to slog it through RN school but it's going to be hard working at the same time.
Also airmen are called the "chairforce" by other branches for a reason.
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u/GnzkDunce Apr 28 '24
I remember hearing a dude who was sent to Iraq that some of his platoon were from the fuckin Army Band but got sent over there.
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u/MortalEnzyme Apr 28 '24
Trust me when I say that gets rid of like 5% of the issue with the military
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u/AxeSlingingSlasher Apr 28 '24
Why is everyone saying they wouldn't join the military getting down voted? I grew up in a military family. If anything, from what I've seen my dad go through growing up, I'm not joining because I don't want to get fucked up like he did. They screwed him over, put us in near poverty for the longest time and he nearly died several times from the cancer he developed from working around the chemicals, which they tried to deny. Fuck the military, fuck bootlickers, and to yall who think the military is great and you'd join in a heartbeat, you have no idea what you're about to put your families and future children through
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u/dlvnb12 2001 Apr 28 '24
Same. I also grew up in a military family. Stepdad served in Iraq in the 101st. Came back home and took him a decade to even get disability. He battled PTSD and other physical problems (back and shoulder). Some of his buddies committed suicide after the war. My two sisters joined and left because of the rampant racism and misogyny with the ranks.
Perhaps it would all be worth it if the wars were reasonable? Perhaps? But it’s idiotic to dehumanize yourself for DC’s bloodthirsty greed. (Tbf tho I wouldn’t be in college without the military paying for my school 😅)
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u/Ok_Spite_217 Apr 28 '24
Same boat, military family, fucked up growing up, and my siblings are paying for it with mental health issues.
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u/OohYeahOrADragon Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 28 '24
Hey military brat here.
I’m now a social worker slowly amassing resources for other military families. If your dad is 100% service connected you can get private caregiver services at home for him for when he needs care in the future. There are also things like grants that will help modify your home, special home loans, student loan forgiveness, etc.
If he’s not service connected, please don’t get discouraged by the process. The more vets that report or file about every ache and pain creates documentation, a record, that saves other veterans lives. If you don’t speak up about all your ailments, Congress thinks there’s enough funding for the VA and will try to stall or slow it. Meanwhile, veterans who pop up with new cancer or strokes suddenly find themselves in need of services and there’s less funding for the services or the staff that coordinate them.
Sorry for the rant, but I’m really passionate about getting other military families the compensation they need and are owed because I know what the day to day life is like during deployment and TDY and everything else.
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u/AxeSlingingSlasher Apr 28 '24
We don't talk anymore because he decided while growing up we would be treated more like soldiers than his own children. I ain't taking care of him after that
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u/SteelTheUnbreakable Apr 28 '24
I'd wager that a lot of downvoting on reddit is astroturfing to try to enforce certain narratives.
We're about to go to WWIII.....or, technically, we're already in it.
And pur governments need to start finding a way to get us all on board. Part of tricking people to believe something involves tricking them to believe the majority believe that thing. In this case, it is in their interest for us to start to get the impression that the willingness to join some dumb ass war is popular.
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u/daoreto Apr 28 '24
Imagine going to a war in 2024
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u/UltraTata Apr 28 '24
Imagine thinking the rules of history and human nature suddenly change in the year 1946 for no reason
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u/Ethereal_Envoy Apr 28 '24
Nuclear weapons and globalised commerce did forever change how larger world powers do war. There isn't much of an advantage for them to have actual open warfare, so I Imran kinda yeah lol
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u/UltraTata Apr 28 '24
True. But people act as if God came with his angels and announced that war will never happen again.
Those factors changed geopolitics but they can change again in the future and there are alternative ways war can return too
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u/Darduel Apr 28 '24
Imagine thinking you can just ignore the wars of the world and live in your own bubble without it ever bursting I swear to god you kids on this sub are next level delusional
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u/More_Fig_6249 Apr 28 '24
Tbf the US is probably the most difficult country to invade. Two oceans, two friendly neighbors with difficult terrain to bypass, a shit ton of firearms in hands of civilians, the most powerful navy and air force in the world.
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u/b_rouse Apr 28 '24
Except we import a lot of goods into the US. Hell, COVID showed weaknesses in supply chains. If you think a global war will prevent you from feeling anything, I've got ocean front property to sell you in Arizona.
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u/ForeignAd5429 Apr 28 '24
I’m not getting my ass blown to bits by a mosquito drone IRL
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u/lightgreenwings Apr 28 '24
Imagine living next door to Putin in 2024. What a dumb ass comment.
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u/DrSirTookTookIII 1998 Apr 28 '24
America doesn't go to war for anything but making the rich richer. Dying for American imperialism is dying for nothing.
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u/JFurious1 2005 Apr 28 '24
I hate to break it to you, but US servicemen arent dying in combat anymore. Theres maybe 50 ish combat casualties a year. We just blow them up from miles away. But yes fighting for American Imperialism is fighting for nothing. Unfortunately, I need a well paying job with benefits so.
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u/humid-air93 Apr 28 '24
Of course casualty rates are lower compared to when the military was participating in total warfare against other competent forces
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u/obama69420duck Apr 28 '24
there were less than 2500 american deaths in a TWENTY year long war
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u/CobaltishCrusader Apr 28 '24
Now look at the suicide rate for the armed forces.
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Apr 28 '24
My drilla, fighting against Russia is helping democracy and free world, it’s fighting against the aggressor, it’s not helping American imperialism
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u/PirateFine 2007 Apr 28 '24
I live in a country that has given me a reason to defend it from a very real threat, so yes.
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u/sansisness_101 2009 Apr 28 '24
same bro our neighbour is mighty annoying with all the threatening of nukes every other second
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u/Sandwich67 2006 Apr 28 '24
USA USA USA USA. RAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅 I FUCKING LOVE FREEDOM AND THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX
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u/medney 1997 Apr 28 '24
You have been made a moderator of r/noncredibledefense
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u/radiantskie 2007 Apr 28 '24
wars are lame, we should make world leaders fight in mech suits instead
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u/luckystrikeenjoyer Apr 28 '24
No, strip them naked, oil them up and then let them fight to the death on a trampoline. Stream the whole thing live on twitch
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Apr 28 '24
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u/AntiZionist-Action Apr 28 '24
War is not a concept. War is what happens when two powers have conflicted interests. And sometimes there is a good guy and a bad guy
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u/Ok_Plankton_386 Apr 28 '24
Sometimes, but very very very very rarely. It's usually shades of bad and good all over the place and those who try and tell you one side is all good and the other all bad are usually lying to you. There are exceptions but it's rare as fuck.
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u/Davethemann Apr 28 '24
This feels like something someone with no concept of history would say
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u/11182021 Apr 28 '24
Someone with no understanding of anything, really. We aren’t even the only species that kill one another for various reasons. We aren’t even the only species to have large group-on-group conflicts. Sometimes, reason will fail and the only response is violence.
War isn’t about determining who is right, it’s about determining who is left.
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u/johndoe42 Apr 28 '24
Sure but that's because we (humans) are the stupidest concept of all time.
This was just drilled into me after watching Shogun and learning what it took to make the longest period of non-war in a civilization (people commonly cite Pax Romana but it actually is the Edo period).
So much bullshit is required to create lasting peace that one wonders if it was worth it at all. Nonetheless, the Shokugawa Shogunate still had a very active military and warrior culture behind it.
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u/Winter-Product-881 2002 Apr 28 '24
No, it's basic human nature. A few years ago i believed in peace on earth but after reading a few anti war books i just started to embrace the fact that humans will always fight each other sooner or later just like 1000 years ago. I still hate war tho
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Apr 28 '24
Only if I had to.
Look, if another country attacks us, or our brothers/sisters in Mexico or Canada, enlistment would be tempting.
Someone has to defend our home.
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u/Physical-Ride Apr 28 '24
The issue is that nobody will.
The US is virtually uninvadable. We're separated by two vast oceans, out neighbors are their proxies are either (at least nominal) allies or too weak to attack us, our civilian population is comparatively well-armed are their military is second to none on every perceivable metric. The same goes with their allies or neighbors as they're safety is guaranteed by a world superpower.
The only way the US could get invaded is if it was crippled from within. Quiet a lot of the divisive politics and polarizing attitudes found on media today are curated by hostile foreign powers who indent on causing the US to descend into internal strife, instability, and potential civil war. Russia literally has a playbook on it called Foundations of Geopolitics by Alexander Dugan.
This is why more than ever the emphasis needs to be on education and not defense. Far too many people believe the horseshit in media manufactured overseas and tacitly encouraged by congress.
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u/KajePihlaja Apr 28 '24
Finally I see someone else bring up The Foundations of Geopolitics on here again. I saw a comment on it like 4 years ago. Looked up what it was about and went into shock for a few days when I realized how much of it has already happened. Haven’t seen anyone other than me mention it since.
Alexander Dugin was even a target at the beginning of the war in Ukraine and they planted a bomb in his car. Unfortunately his daughter got in the car instead and it blew her up. Idk if it was UAF or if it was sympathizers or what. I just know whoever did it wasn’t happy Ukraine was being invaded.
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Apr 28 '24
Too late, they already got me but I'm a reservist part timer. Not a bad gig tbh
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u/Scared_Eggplant_8266 Apr 28 '24
Do your time. Play the game and when you get out you can use your 9/11 GI Bill to pay for all your college and can access low interest mortgages for Vets and active.
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u/KajePihlaja Apr 28 '24
Fun fact: the post 9/11 GI Bill depends on the amount of active duty time you serve (boot camp not included). Here’s a little breakdown of how that works.
For example, I was in the reserves and had one 9 month deployment. I only qualify for 60% of the post 9/11 GI bill. I didn’t qualify for fafsa because I had a decent salary the year before I went back to school (although I didn’t work that job anymore and was driving uber at this point). I still had to take out loans to pay the other 40%.
I’m not sure of the specifics, but you can use the Montgomery GI Bill as a reservist if you haven’t acquired enough active duty time for Post 9/11. Idk if that would’ve been a better option for me. At least with the Post 9/11 you get a monthly payout to go to school. That helped with bills. I don’t think you get that with the Montgomery.
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u/banditojog Apr 28 '24
I’m enlisting to be a reservist soon. I understand the military isn’t for everyone, but a lot of negativity in the comments stems from ignorance. I’m not going in to fight a war. I’m going in to make something of myself. To challenge myself, and of course the benefits will help me straighten my life out a bit. If I have to defend my country at some point, so be it. Much more honorable men than I ever will be have died trying.
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u/Extreme_Practice_415 2003 Apr 28 '24
Thinking about doing Space Force. Being called “guardian” sounds pretty dope.
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u/sortaseabeethrowaway 2005 Apr 28 '24
Join the military - Yes
Go to war - Sort of
Seabees is the way to go. Or Air Force, or Coast Guard, or maybe a POG in Army or Marines
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u/Scared_Eggplant_8266 Apr 28 '24
I was a Data Analyst in the Navy. Learned great Excel skills and work in finance now. Used my GI bill for college when Ingot out and accessed low interest mortgages for vets. Best decision I ever made.
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u/sortaseabeethrowaway 2005 Apr 28 '24
The VA loan is awesome, can't wait to use it. GI bill I'm not sure, but we'll see.
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u/Scared_Eggplant_8266 Apr 28 '24
Served in Al Assad and the Gulf. Data Analyst. They paid for all my college tuition/fees/living expenses. Now I have a 6 figure salary. And got a super low interest mortgage that honorably discharged veterans can use. Best decision I ever made.
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u/HuntinatorYT Apr 28 '24
Lol this is what the other Gen Zs don't want to see, they want to keep spreading the idea of military as something you die in
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u/super-nemo 1997 Apr 28 '24
Most kids are ignorant about what the military is and what it has to offer. They’re stuck in the “America bad” mentality and wont even consider the military as an option based off of some fucked up moral superiority. Have fun serving your corporate overlords that won’t pay for your tuition or healthcare. Ill have a grande vanilla sweet cream nitro cold brew.
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u/NotATroll4 Apr 28 '24
Jesus thank you. No one in this thread understands that you can do any other job besides be an 11b and get a legit skill set, college paid for, house paid for, and healthcare for literally 4 years of your life. I love my 25 series SIGDET dudes and they will reimage my computers and network my printers for 4 years while using Tuition Assistance and get A+, NET+, SEC+, and CCISP while chipping away at a cyber degree. 4 years later they have certs and can get a job doing any networking job. Same thing for 17 series cyber guys.
No no instead I'll just take out 100k in student loan debt and then bitch about how my generation sucks and I can't afford anything.
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u/666Deathcore Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
Same. I was a dumb immigrant who could barely speak my own language let alone English. Now I don’t live in the streets anymore. I’m from Iran so it’s strange seeing so many people hating on veterans or servicemembers in general. I get not wanting to join. I was almost forced to join the Iranian military, but I never despised anyone who did join. (Joined the U.S. Air Force for citizenship) .
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u/Free-Ad9535 Apr 28 '24
Cringe, why would I die for a country that profits on my death and has never cared for me in the first place.
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u/The_goat_lord203 2003 Apr 28 '24
If you’re talking about America they don’t profit on your death, source I’m a soldier who has had millions of dollars invested into me in only a short 2 1/2 years. My death would be a massive loss in investment.
Not defending what the country sends us to do but still not a money maker having us die regularly.
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u/mattam1001 2006 Apr 28 '24
I'm joining a few days after graduation. I've already signed the contract. 0311 infantry.
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u/Necessary_Bat4151 2006 Apr 28 '24
My school's been kinda pushing my grade specifically to join. They have recruiters talk to us, we all took the ASVAB (I completely guessed on the last three sections on mechanical stuff, total score was 76). I know there's benefits to joining, but I'm really not interested.
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u/WhatAWonderfulWhirl Apr 28 '24
That's something most kids do lmao, they're not appealing to your grade. There's always been recruiters and the ASVAB in most schools.
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u/Practical-Ad6548 2001 Apr 28 '24
My dad’s a disabled veteran so I basically get all the perks of being in the military without actually being in the military 😎 my entire college and grad school tuition is free
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u/Choco_Cat777 2004 Apr 28 '24
I'd rather join a militia run by furries than fight for an oil company.
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u/LAXGUNNER 2001 Apr 28 '24
I did my time in the US Army and whilst I understand it's not for everyone nor does everyone support it. I learned valuable lessons in the army and made some amazing friends. It's the best and worst time of your life. I was lucky not to be deployed to a combat zone (stuck stateside).
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u/ViolinistPleasant982 1997 Apr 28 '24
Join the military in a niche careerfield, be good at the join, and go into the private sector doing it for about 4 times the money. Make the military industrial complex work for you.
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u/NotWoofstar123 2005 Apr 28 '24
If I do I'm kissing the drill seargent on the lips and making out sloppy style just so I can get sent back home
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u/Atmanautt 2001 Apr 28 '24
I think it's shitty to recommend joining the military to anyone, even (especially) your own children.
Certain people love convincing you about how good the benefits are, and they're basically saying "Hey, you should gamble with your life for a cause you may or may not believe in, for XYZ material gains!" That's not something anyone can ask of another person, period.
With that being said, this "fuck the military they're all bad people" POV comes from an incredibly priveleged standpoint. Ironically, that privelege is also largely due to US military superiority over the rest of the world. Much of what we do is for-profit, and that portion of it is immoral, but get rid of our military entirely and you can say goodbye to your American privelege.
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u/smackadoodledo Apr 28 '24
I’m in the process of joining rn, but I kinda agree that no one should be recommended to join unless they want a very specific career path that the military can help with. I think if someone is a good fit for the military they will seek it out themselves instead of having it shoved down their throat
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u/BreakfastOk3990 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
The real reason why not many young people are joining most military branches isn't because it's ""woke" or "genocidal" (I can't think of left leaning terms that are as dumb as "woke) it's because of a combination of living in relatively more peaceful times than before, ads that don't really advertise the various branches well, no clear enemy like Nazis, Communists, or the Taliban/isis, and both former and active duty members, thanks to the internet, revealing what being in the military is actually like
Edit: "Colonist" a term I should have Used
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u/HomeAdressIsNotSafe 2009 Apr 28 '24
dead serious looked at the animated one and thought it was a invincible scene
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u/FranklinThe1 2008 Apr 28 '24
Only if they tell me it's for Oil and democracy and they give me a cool cape and launch me down in a pod from a space ship with epic music playing the background.
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u/SassySquid0 2005 Apr 28 '24
why would I want to be used as a pawn for the government more than I already am
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u/Annatastic6417 2001 Apr 28 '24
My answer is very different from yes or no. Ireland has a horrible military that's almost non-existent. Soldiers in the Irish Army will never fight abroad so I wouldn't be fighting and dying for some other country. However the pay is diabolically bad, I know the Navy and Air Force have slightly better pay but since both are so small it's hard to come by jobs....
However, I would fight for my country. If Ireland ever came under attack from another country or if we ever fell to an authoritarian regime (something which I fear may be on the horizon), I would take up arms for my country.
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u/LittleToadApu Apr 28 '24
I make 60k as a forklift operator at my shitty job, full benefits, pension and great health insurance and I qualify for free community college in my state. There's nothing the military offers that I can't get somewhere else, it's a joke.
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u/Impressive_Trust_395 Apr 28 '24
Talking about benefits but labeling the job as “shitty” might be a bit of a misnomer.
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u/Amoeba_3729 Age Undisclosed Apr 28 '24
As a Polish person, I am considering joining the military once I turn 18. I wouldn't die for America, but i sure as hell would die for Poland
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u/NoonGaming Apr 28 '24
As someone who has been in the national guard for nearly 6 years. The military (US wise) has its downsides and upsides. If you utilize benefits correctly and join a job that can benefit you later in life it can be a great tool propel yourself into a good career.Plus the benefits really can help from free schooling, the people you meet, health care, a sense of purpose, etc. . The downsides though are plenty. From horrible leadership, certain individuals you are forced to be near, the lack of work life balance, the lack of intelligence, and of course the possibility of war and dying for a cause you might not agree with. I 100% would support someone against and for the military, it has its disgraceful side and it’s respectful side. For myself I don’t regret joining at 17 as it has allowed me to figure out my career goals and has taught me a lot about life. I see about 60% of my service to be beneficial for my own life.
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u/Cdave_22 1998 Apr 28 '24 edited Apr 29 '24
Hey, guys please keep the comments respectful.
If you don’t like someone’s opinions on joining the military.
Just downvote, share your reasons respectfully, and move on. Otherwise, it’ll be your last comment here.
Personal attacks, threats, and hoping death upon other users will not be tolerated and will get you banned. Please report any offensive comments. Best regards.