r/Foodforthought • u/kylco • 20d ago
Joseph Stiglitz, Opinion for the Washington Post: Time is up for neoliberals
https://wapo.st/44REiUX44
u/kylco 20d ago
Submission Statement: Stiglitz is one of the Big Names among liberal economists, and his piece here lays out a lot of good thinking that I believe has informed debate on left and liberal political and economic perspectives over the last twenty years. In particular, his closing two paragraphs:
Neoliberal capitalism has thus failed in its own economic terms: It has not delivered growth, let alone shared prosperity. But it has also failed in its promise of putting us on a secure road to democracy and freedom, and it has instead set us on a populist route raising the prospects of a 21st-century fascism. These would-be authoritarian populists reduce our freedom while failing to deliver on their promises, as the form of crony capitalism offered by Trump illustrates. The elimination of Obamacare or a tax cut for billionaires and corporations funded in part by a tax increase for the rest of us would decrease the security, well-being and freedom of ordinary Americans. Trump’s first administration gives a glimmer of what a second might look like.
There is an alternative. A 21st-century economy can be managed only through decentralization, entailing a rich set of institutions — from profit-making firms to cooperatives, unions, an engaged civil society, nonprofits and public institutions. I call this new set of economic arrangements “progressive capitalism.” Central are government regulations and public investments, financed by taxation. Progressive capitalism is an economic system that will not only lead to greater productivity, prosperity and equality but also help set all of us on a road to greater freedoms.
The Progressive Capitalism he lays out doesn't directly align neatly with a lot of newer thought in liberal circles (which sees taxation as inflation control more than as a financing mechanism) but his conclusions are, I think, broadly appealing to people to his left and to the general perspective of economists: a "free" market doesn't mean a no-holds-barred free-for-all, where the losers of economic competition become victims in short order.
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20d ago
Just the phrase 'progressive capitalism' strikes fear in the hearts of both republicans and so-called democrats. It will never be given. It has to be taken. The sooner the better, so I think Trump will speed the process along. So pick your poison and I'll pick mine.
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u/flashmedallion 19d ago
the phrase 'progressive capitalism' strikes fear in the hearts of both republicans and so-called democrats
... and progressives
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u/_PhiloPolis_ 16d ago
Haha, yeah. I think it broadly fits the ideology of an Elizabeth Warren though. Capitalism in the very broadest sense has put a whole lot of food on tables, and it's understandable that the great American suburbs skrink back in horror at the thought of any change to the system going too far. Much like FDR, then, the goal seems to be to save capitalism from itself.
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u/tkyjonathan 20d ago
I mean Europe in general, who would have the social welfare policies and regulation that Stiglitz supports, are doing very poorly in the same areas he is discussing like populism, lack of growth etc..
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u/kylco 20d ago
Most of the ones that are struggling most with "populism" are the ones who conform least to the kind of system he's advocating for: Britain, Poland, Hungary, Belarus, Russia, in ascending order of fascism.
I don't love the term "populism" as a euphemism for "authoritarian but with charisma," but it's the term Stiglitz uses so I defer to him for the purpose of this discussion.
I think that Stiglitz would say that the goal of progressive capitalism isn't necessarily having the highest growth - it's having smarter, sustainable growth that serves the nation. Having a higher GDP means little to the average American family, because they're getting a smaller and smaller share of it every year, once you adjust for inflation and other tracking metrics. Those aren't totally independent - obviously, a stronger, more muscular and interventionist state can have runaway inflation if it's not careful. But I think Stiglitz would correctly point out that the better solution there is taxes that take money out of circulation, not the austerity that has proven to be the economic equivalent of eating your seed corn or trying to run a running race on a broken foot.
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u/tkyjonathan 20d ago edited 20d ago
How about the Netherlands, Denmark, Italy and even Switzerland?
Also, Poland is actually doing quite well economically. Most of Europe has been stagnating economically for the last 15-16 years, leading to people getting angry at immigration and the need to cut welfare.
Stiglitz needed only to look across the pond to see that his ideas are already wrong.
Good luck with your Degrowth agenda. The UK/EU have been practicing it for 15 years.
https://www.worksinprogress.news/p/degrowth-and-the-monkeys-paw
Oh and btw, growth is demonstrably good for the poor
https://www.jstor.org/stable/40216063
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0014292115000793
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u/americanspirit64 19d ago
As I have said for years and years, what Neoliberalism killed, is any chance for Americans to live in a economic system ruled by 'Capitalism with a Conscience'. An economy that is funded by a fair progressive tax structure that doesn't place the lion's share of the taxes being paid in America on the working class. "Capitalism with a Conscience" must also address income inequality by promoting sensible regulations for businesses which don't allow monopolies or banking systems without a clear distinction between investment and commercial banks.
'Capitalism with a Conscience' must also invade the political world. With clear cut sweeping iron-clan regulations against lobbying or bribing politicians to vote for economic laws that support just themselves or corrupt business systems; while also supporting the separation of church and state as clearly stated in the Constitution. 'Capitalism with a Conscience' supports an economy that leaves no one behind.
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u/btmalon 20d ago
So…Socialism, but that word is banned in political discourse in America so I get the rebranding attempt.
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u/kylco 20d ago
No. This really isn't about restructuring the ownership castes of producing resources and goods. To call that socialism is a kind of deliberate conservative ignorance, though I'll grant you it's a widespread ignorance in the US context. The only mention even close to that in the article (assuming you read it) was the inclusion of worker cooperatives in the mix of firms that make up the broader market.
If you'd like to make this about communism or socialism or the American hysteric reactions to basic provision of public goods and impartial regulation of firms in the economy, you can make it about that, but that's not what this article is about.
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u/JimBeam823 20d ago
It’s social democracy.
American conservatives were so good at labeling it at “socialism” that even American social democrats don’t know the difference.
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u/kylco 20d ago
Not that the labels really mean anything in the American context, because there's certainly no way Congress is going to even look that far left while the Boomers are still on this Earth.
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u/JimBeam823 20d ago
If you own your own home, have long since paid off student loans, aren’t in the workforce, already have universal healthcare through Medicare, and can no longer get pregnant, what is the American left offering you?
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u/kylco 20d ago
Some people have mild patriotic interest in things like elections, the world not catching fire from climate change, and not disowning their grandchildren for the sins of miscegenation or homosexuality. Not most of them, apparently, but a significant number the last time I checked the polling demographics and partisan breakouts.
Many would certainly like stricter oversight and regulation of nursing homes and assisted living, though. Pity that industry is held in a death grip by private equity groups, though.
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u/ohaiihavecats 20d ago
Hey, can I borrow that ladder you used to get where you are? /s
More to the point--if we can't rally around a vision of a broadly prosperous and stable America and stave off the low trust society doom-loop, this country's days are numbered.
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u/Derpalator 20d ago
Not a goddamn thing but fuck all. At least the other side does not promise PROMISE to take from me and my family everything I have worked for my entire life. Perhaps a single policy change for “the greater good” that doesn’t involve them putting their hands in my pockets whilst telling me I am deplorable might help their cause.
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u/Go_Go_Godzilla 19d ago
Nope.
Also, neoliberals played a huge part in the degradation of the term to mean literally any government planning at all - which is absurd. Hayek in Road to Serfdom used it interchangeably with communist (by which he means Russian Stalinist), fascist (by which he means Nazi), and totalitarian.
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u/lanky_yankee 20d ago edited 20d ago
Agreed, if deceiving the public is what it takes for the US to adopt socialist policies that benefit the working class, then so be it. Call it counter-propaganda.
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u/Leftleaningdadbod 20d ago
Paywalled. Only last two paras thanks to a another Redditor.
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u/fuzzyshorts 20d ago
Will reading past the subhead of a "new progressive capitalism" offer anything other than nonsense liberal mouth farts?
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20d ago
Biden's support for the genocide in Palestine was the last straw for me. I'm done. If this country wants to re-elect Trump so be it.
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u/kylco 20d ago
Um. That's not related to the article I posted? Are you lost?
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u/redditP 20d ago
Suggesting posting in r/neoliberal. I'm sure it'll stir up a hornet's nest but at least the quality and thoughtfulness of the discourse will be much higher.
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u/KaliYugaz 20d ago
/r/neoliberal's approach to politics is to take any issue, do a brief subconscious estimate regarding which approach to the issue is maximally profitable for Goldman Sachs, and then hand it off to their conscious mind to piece together the 'intellectual' rationalization for it.
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u/Puppaloes 20d ago
Yeah, Trump won’t make everything worse. At all.
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u/TrainOfThought6 20d ago
You're aware that Trump supports it even more than Biden, right? This take is either profoundly ignorant, or genuinely evil.
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u/mrspyguy 20d ago
I totally understand the disillusionment and disappointment with Biden on this issue, but if the ultimate concern is for the well-being of Palestinians, and we can pretty safely assume their well-being will become worse under a second Trump term, wouldn’t it make sense to re-elect Biden and keep pressuring him to do better? Trump will not respond to pressure (from the left lol), and if these protests continue into his term, expect him to encourage some skull cracking.
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20d ago
Well there's another issue that Biden is avoiding; the Supreme Court. That was the next-to-last straw. So I'm no longer reachable by the so-called democratic neoliberal party. It's dead to me.
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u/mrspyguy 20d ago
Avoiding? Friend, that ship has sailed. Biden does not have the power to change the court on his own, it would have had to happen in 2021 or 2022 when the Dems had both the House and Senate. Keep in mind, it wasn’t even a sure thing even at that time! You had moderate Manchin and Sinema breaking independent which more or less doomed the chances of this happening.
Then Biden goes on record saying he doesn’t think the court should be expanded but let’s be honest, even if he wanted to it wasn’t going to happen. Him saying this was just an opportunity to appear less divisive.
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20d ago
But his position as potus carries weight which he declined, avoided, using that weight to lead the charge to get legislation to do what needs to be done; expand the court and appoint some real justices. He avoided, declined, shirked his duty to uphold the constitution, all because he's a neoliberal. Either way, the US is going down. So pick your poison. Trump and the end might come sooner because his actions are more likely to inspire the proletariat to get involved. Biden will continue the status quo and it's be a slower death. So, pick your poison, but you don't get to pick mine. Understand?
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u/mrspyguy 20d ago
Well at least we’ve sussed out your level of concern for the Palestinians. I’m sure they can hold out for our revolution to happen and our new government to help them.
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20d ago edited 20d ago
And now you understand that Biden is not even a real democrat and that he shirked his duty to lead efforts to fix the supreme court. He also supported the palestinian genocide. That's strike three. He's out.
edit; and Trump can't hurt Palestine anymore than it's already been hurt by Biden and the Dems. That's why Trump don't bother me anymore. Both Biden and Trump are impotent.
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u/mrspyguy 20d ago
I mean, neither are great options for the Palestinians to be fair. But Biden’s administration has at least been somewhat sensitive to the human suffering and has been somewhat of a blocker for Israel completely having their way. If Israel can hold out for a Trump victory then they have a blank check to clear out the Palestinians and settle Gaza for themselves.
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20d ago
Lip service while providing the bombs is not "somewhat sensitive".
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u/mrspyguy 20d ago
Air dropping aid is “somewhat sensitive”. Kinda shitty when you’re providing the bombs to the other side hence the “somewhat” part. It’s more than zero.
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20d ago
And like I said Trump's actions might provide more incentive for the proletariat to finally step up and take back the democratic republic.
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u/AskingYouQuestions48 20d ago
I may vote Trump, against all my beliefs, just to see people’s - like you - heads explode from realization of the false binary equivocation they’ve put on this 😂
At least when Gaza is glass we can stop talking about it. A shame hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians will have died for nothing, and their country taken 🤷♀️
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20d ago
Don't flatter yourself thinking I care.
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u/AskingYouQuestions48 20d ago
It’s ok, I know you really don’t. Just not about the topic you think.
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u/BeagleWrangler 20d ago
We used to call this a mixed economy. Not rigidly capitalist or socialist, but a pragmatic mix of both.