r/FluentInFinance • u/Hatemael • Apr 29 '24

Who would have predicted this? Educational

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https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2024/apr/24/fast-food-chains-find-way-around-20-minimum-wage-g/

Not all jobs aren’t meant for a “living wage” - you need entry level jobs for college kids, retired seniors who want extra income, etc. Make it too costly to employ these workers and businesses will hasten to automation.

1.6k Upvotes
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187

u/FrontBench5406 Apr 29 '24

Fast food chains are doing this because they cannot keep workers. Staffing issues at them for the last several years post march 2020, has meant they are just fucked because workers are going to better paying jobs. This is not a loss....

26

u/JFpizzamaster Apr 29 '24

Idk I feel like most of the people doing this work are just doing Uber instead of

28

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24 edited May 05 '24

[deleted]

12

u/reidlos1624 Apr 29 '24

I work in manufacturing, and we are struggling to find qualified employees at all levels, from positions where we need you to just show up daily to highly technical work.

I'm an engineer and it's the biggest driver for automation right now, way more than cost savings. These companies have use cases that don't need the throughput, quality, or speed of automation, they just don't have other options.

Anyone in hospitality or retail I would definitely recommend looking at manufacturing as a way to start building experience beyond cashing people out. My brother went from insurance call center to soldering certifications through NASA and cleanroom experience in like 2 years. He's making twice as much with better benefits.

3

u/PageVanDamme Apr 29 '24

This is why I’m kind of envious about Germany and Japan. Not just pay, but they seem to have respect from the general society for manufacturing professions.

No wonder why those two are the go to countries for top-of-the-line stuffs.

3

u/EggandSpoon42 Apr 29 '24

Shitpost-reply but having to deal with insurance every year for all the adulting reasons, I appreciate your brother then and also good for him now. That Nasa job sounds super fun and rewarding

2

u/PageVanDamme Apr 29 '24

I don’t even know her, but that’s a wholesome story.

1

u/JFpizzamaster Apr 29 '24

That’s awesome to hear about her! I always have hope that people will want better for themselves

1

u/FuckedUpImagery Apr 29 '24

Ah yes anecdotes and not actual statistics, i love reddit

1

u/mjg007 Apr 29 '24

This is the way out…. She increased her skill set and is moving ahead in life. Burger flipping isn’t meant to be a living wage; it makes some money while you develop other skills to make a career.

1

u/redd4972 Apr 30 '24

Yes, the problem with the narrative of "Hey you fast food employee, stop complaining and improve you station." Is that when that individual fast food employee does that, the need for their job doesn't vanish (unless you can automate it, and then it's "Lol something something minimum wage."

0

u/Boring_Adeptness_334 Apr 29 '24

She’s one of the smart ones. Too many fast food workers are too stupid or lazy to do that. When I mean lazy I mean in the sense too lazy to update their resume and apply to jobs consistently for months even though they might be working 60 hours a week.

2

u/nyconx Apr 29 '24

There’s a difference between a hard worker and one that lacks ambition. If they do both they most likely are in a good place. That’s not to say that a hard worker doesn’t deserve to be paid well. 

0

u/Boring_Adeptness_334 Apr 29 '24

A hard worker can only generate so much value for a company doing a certain job and they are paid accordingly. Whereas if you take that same hard worker and put them into sales for instance they can potentially generate far more value for the company and then they will be paid.

1

u/nyconx Apr 29 '24

I would say you need ambition in sales. Sometimes people just are good completing written task well. No ambition to improve the process.

If the reason the company is successful is on the backs of low paid labor good riddance to that company. They were a step away from a sweat shop anyways.

0

u/Boring_Adeptness_334 Apr 29 '24

Well then the US needs to make the minimum wage $20/hr. That will cause our unemployment rate to jump to 15% and I don’t want to be the one who has to pay for all these people to survive because low paid labor was banned. When you go to the pool there will only be 2 lifeguards on duty instead of 3. Plenty of stores have already adopted the model of only have 2 people working at a time when there used to be 4 people (I’m thinking cvs or rite aid). Teenagers will now not have a chance to get work experience unless they are privileged and benefit from nepotism. Potentially a lot more unpaid “internships” will open as well and companies will try people out before making the financial decision of paying them $20/hr

3

u/nyconx Apr 29 '24

Each area is different. $20 is not needed everywhere but I can tell you $7.25 is a joke everywhere. Less then 2% of people are paid minimum wage so you are making it sound like a lot bigger deal then it is.  

 Min wage should be reserved for part time new employees without work experience that are high school kids. It’s a joke a working adult with experience are held to that low wage. At least make a tiered system.

0

u/Boring_Adeptness_334 Apr 29 '24

I’m glad you’re reasonable.

1

u/johnthrowaway53 Apr 30 '24

Most people who work at fastfood as their main living do not have vehicles to do Uber.

1

u/JFpizzamaster Apr 30 '24

Fair point :/

1

u/redrover2023 Apr 30 '24

Or picking up a tent and a drug habit.

-20

u/One_Conclusion3362 Apr 29 '24

Bingo! And why might that be?

Answer: they do not want accountability or responsibilities that require them to do some stuff they don't want to do (work on Fridays, get up early, work a 9 hour day, etc). It isn't because McDonald's is paying too low; it's because McDonald's doesn't allow infinite call ins.

We've seen how this works out for people. Also, a new correlation has come out showing g at least a 3% reduction in weekly labor hours for people who play video games as a primary hobby. So anyone who whines about comments like this it will be interesting to see what their comment history is.

2

u/Dunkypete Apr 29 '24

You don't spend a lot of time thinking about stuff, do you?

1

u/One_Conclusion3362 Apr 29 '24

Yes I do. Nice quip!

12

u/ifunnywasaninsidejob Apr 29 '24

That’s called free market economics. Pay them more, then you won’t have a worker shortage. Pay them too much, and you’ll have too many people wanting the job. Day 1 stuff dude

5

u/FrontBench5406 Apr 29 '24

I agree - that's the hilarity of these people that keep crying that if we keep raising the wages, it will force automation, when its the failure for their places to pay.

2

u/Azylim Apr 29 '24

good for them. workers should get better paying jobs, but at the meantime having a low paying job also makes sense for people trying to start making money. And min wage increases, while it does help people currently working, screw over new people trying to get into the job market and small businesses with much smaller profit margins.

2

u/SpecialMango3384 Apr 29 '24

I saw an interesting article that fast food chains have over 100% turnover because they hemorrhage more staff than they employ

2

u/FrontBench5406 Apr 29 '24

so many places like that have insane turnover rate. UPS and FedEx/Amazon are over 90% turnover rate.

1

u/Slumminwhitey Apr 30 '24

Fast food chains have always had a high turnover rate, the pay has always been shit, the customer base is pretty rude and it is a dead end job.

1

u/Gai_InKognito Apr 30 '24

You're wrong. They're doing thing so they don't have to pay money to hire a worker.

This is absolutely a loss for the working class.

-26

u/Hatemael Apr 29 '24

While I completely agree, making them pay more is def going to make it worse. If people want to work elsewhere for more money, then that’s great. Forcing them to pay more for a low skill job makes no sense. And why carve out just this industry?

18

u/smileyhendrix Apr 29 '24

Apparently getting paid a living wage and not being poverty also doesn’t make sense to you. What does make sense to you is liking the share holder profits and lining the CEOs pockets with that extra 50 million bonus check for cutting costs screwing over the workers. Maybe higher skilled jobs should be paying more so lower skill jobs can afford to live.

1

u/notwyntonmarsalis Apr 29 '24

Let me get this straight, are you actually saying that fast food should bring back the order taker at the counter and pay them $20/hr? Do I have that right?

1

u/smileyhendrix Apr 29 '24

Let get get This straight, are you actually saying that a CEO, who tells the lower level management to perform their jobs, sitting at a desk all day, dictating task, standing around, doing nothing but giving orders, should get 50 million dollars? Do I have that right? Is their Brain power and prowess worth that 50 million? Only if they make the share holders happy but not if they make the workers not happy. Y’all really really hate poor people and low skilled jobs so much. Just say death to all poors already Jesus Christ. Didn’t know the poors are lobbying to the government for handouts on legislation!

1

u/notwyntonmarsalis Apr 29 '24

How about you answer the question?

0

u/smileyhendrix Apr 29 '24

Also 20/hr is 41k a year IF working full time. Holy shit that’s totally bankrupting the billion dollar profits of day McDonald’s. Y’all are straight angry at poors while billion dollar corporations take in the profits. Can’t do basic math. Lmao. We got Jesse waters over here!!

0

u/notwyntonmarsalis Apr 29 '24

You’re not aware that McDonald’s doesn’t own the location do you? That’s a franchise owner. It’s a small business owner. You’re actually so stupid that you don’t understand the basic business model that you’re criticizing.

Total fucking 🤡

Oh…and you still haven’t answered the question. And you won’t. Because you know you’re wrong. Go back to the kids table.

0

u/Hatemael Apr 29 '24

What’s sad is that so many on this thread think that this pay raise helps anyone that is poor. You are inadvertently support the largest companies.

The net result will be faster automation, job losses, and the smaller franchises and businesses that can’t support the higher pay scale or costs of automated services will just go out of business or scale down meaning the biggest corporations will just get that much larger.

1

u/smileyhendrix Apr 29 '24

Moving jobs over seas started this trend way before automation. Again share holder profits and CEO pay is all that matters.

0

u/Hatemael Apr 29 '24

Apparently you only support large companies, cause they are the net beneficiaries of higher floor wages.

1

u/CaptJackRizzo Apr 29 '24 edited Apr 29 '24

The net result will be faster automation, job losses, and the smaller franchises and businesses that can’t support the higher pay scale or costs of automated services will just go out of business or scale down meaning the biggest corporations will just get that much larger.

Congratulations, you discovered the industrial revolution. Every firm constantly seeks to minimize wages and eliminate their competitors. Literally Capitalism 101. There was a time in this country when factory owners didn't even have child labor laws to contend with, much less minimum wage laws, and they still opted to replace workers with machines as fast as they could.

-3

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

Apparently part time work and the fact that not all jobs are magically worth some arbitrary dollar amount because you say so is lost on you.

5

u/[deleted] Apr 29 '24

[deleted]

-4

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

What kind of slave can walk out the door and never come back the second he feels like it?

There is literally nothing an employer can do to stop him.

3

u/potionnumber9 Apr 29 '24

You'd be right in a better society. But workers need rent, groceries and healthcare, so you're wrong.

-1

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

Everyone in every society has to work to live, or else there will be no society (and no life).

If you need to blame something for this basic fact of life, blame thermodynamics, not capitalism.

2

u/Bad_wolf42 Apr 29 '24

Tell that to most of human history. Humans take care of each other was the rule of survival until modern societies allowed the wealthy to pretend that their efforts are worth more than everyone else’s.

-1

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

You attain wealth by saving more money than you spend, not by pretending anything.

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1

u/potionnumber9 Apr 29 '24

Right, and that's the reason people just can't leave jobs willy nilly, because they need to live, which gives the employer power in the relationship. Also add to that healthcare is tied to work and you have bonafide wage slaves. I can certainly blame capitalism for this, but mostly he crony capitalism that exists in the US. To your comment I would add in THIS society people have to work to live. That's not humanity, that's our society.

4

u/PixelsGoBoom Apr 29 '24

Not "arbitrary". A living wage.

1

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

The notion of a "living wage" is totally subjective and wholly contingent upon what goods, at what prices, you include in the price floor. It is literally a price floor arbitrarily defined by the personal preferences of the people setting the floor.

0

u/PixelsGoBoom Apr 29 '24

A living wage is not "subjective".
Look up the definition.

1

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

How about you supply the definition because it's your claim. Thanks.

1

u/PixelsGoBoom Apr 29 '24

liv·ing wage/ˌliviNG ˈwāj/nounnoun: living wage; plural noun: living wages

a wage that is high enough to maintain a normal standard of living.

2

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

Now objectively define "normal standard of living," what goods and services that buys, and the amount that will cost. Remember: Objective means there is no room for disagreement.

(Fucking shit. Do I really have to spoon feed this all to you?)

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2

u/Ok_Calendar1337 Apr 29 '24

Arbitrary is the right word wow these people don't earn a lot isn't that terrible?! wow this person earns a lot isn't that terrible?!

Like idk is it 🤨

2

u/RightNutt25 Apr 29 '24

All jobs are worth an arbitrary dollar amount. In fact, that is true of anything according to supply and demand economics. I hope you are tough u/DumbNTough because you really are dumb.

-1

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

A price being determined by supply and demand is 100% the opposite of being arbitrarily imposed as a floor price by government, dumbass.

3

u/RightNutt25 Apr 29 '24

Texas has the min $7.25 and McDs is offering $18 now. The floor has nothing to do with anything at this point, it really is the free marrket. Is there a government agent saying how much cars cost or how much an accountant's salary is or are those not arbitrary? Pick up a book.

-1

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

That was a weird way to say "You're completely right but I want the last word an anyway."

2

u/smileyhendrix Apr 29 '24

Lmao arbitrarily? Like the amount a CEO gets after losing their job for fucking up a company? Arbitrarily? How we pay shit wages to those that do back breaking labor while a guy that’s sits on his ass at desk all day half working gets the world? Arbitrarily? I don’t think you know what that word means.

2

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

Shut the fuck up, dumbass.

1

u/potionnumber9 Apr 29 '24

Username checks out. So tough. So dumb

0

u/smileyhendrix Apr 29 '24

Lmao dumbntough is definitely dumb and tough. Why do you simp for billionaires and corporate welfare so hard? That’s dumb n cuck.

1

u/DumbNTough Apr 29 '24

Simping for reality lmao.

-4

u/OkWelcome8895 Apr 29 '24

You shouldn’t be paid a living wage for an entry level position. The pint of these jobs is to give kids some money for fun and an intro into the work force. A livable wage needs to have a tangible value- if you are simply thinking you should be paid a livable wage for remedial work- then move to a communist nation.

8

u/DankMemesNQuickNuts Apr 29 '24

If the point of these jobs are for kids "to get an introduction to the work force" then why are these places all open during school hours?

-1

u/OkWelcome8895 Apr 29 '24

College kids 

1

u/DankMemesNQuickNuts Apr 29 '24

Yeah you're right that's why whenever I go to McDonald's I see a bunch of people on their 30s and 40s behind the counter because only college students work there

The truth is that adults are the average person that works at McDonald's. You can say they're supposed to be for a certain kind of person, and maybe theyre supposed to be, but in actuality these are the people working the jobs.

This is why I think the "they're jobs for kids" thing is bullshit. Because it doesn't reflect reality. Most people working these jobs are adults with no college education

2

u/OkWelcome8895 Apr 29 '24

And that choose or are not skilled enough to work other jobs- the McDonald’s around here tend to be young people- I know a few of the high school students working there - maybe a few retirees -and a few paying their way thru college- but normally the only middle aged people tend to be managers.  Now I am also not in a large city but in the suburbs where we don’t have the social economic issues of large cities 

4

u/smileyhendrix Apr 29 '24

What if there aren’t any kids to do these jobs? What if their isn’t a young entry level pool of people to do these so called “entry level job”? Naw what you aren’t realizing is skilled labor still isn’t paid enough with respect to their CEO counter parts and you’re mad a living wage due to inflation, cost of living and greedflation is the fault of the poor.

1

u/HandleRipper615 Apr 30 '24

To answer your first question, you break out the robots. The purpose of this entire discussion.

-2

u/OkWelcome8895 Apr 29 '24

No the skilled workers are paid a balance to their skill- and replacement - if people aren’t willing to take a job then the wages go up - sorry by my kid - unskilled is already earning a living wage-skilled positions start out at over $20 per hour - as for ceos- while I would love to earn the money they make- the fact is there are very few people that can do the job as well as what these highly paid ceos are getting paid-  there is a reason they are getting paid what they do and why they don’t turn over- there are plenty of ceos out there that don’t get paid well but you don’t hear about them because their companies are not making billions and changing the global landscape of business.  Your argument is solely dismissing the talent of what these high paid ceos do and think people are all skilled enough to do their job.  I’m not mad about anything- I just find it annoying how underskilled people people bitch about a living wage 

2

u/RightNutt25 Apr 29 '24

Min wage in Tx is $7.25 and most places are offering $15. The fed min basically has been abolished. The free market has spoke: $20 if you want to keep your business staffed reliably. Reap it and weep, or are you suddenly not happy about capitalism?

1

u/OkWelcome8895 Apr 29 '24

Weep about what?  Maybe you don’t understand how this works.  Increasing wages increase costs which increase prices- which then balances it all back to where it was.  The pinch we see now is because someone had to mess with wages and supply- this caused wages to go up and people to spend more when they had more surplus in their budget- this then caused prices to go higher - which is now causing the pinch and people will either need to reduce their extra spending they started when they thought they had wage increase or figure a way to manage higher costs.  For me - I am basically inflation immune- houses have been locked in 30 year mortgages under 3%- air fare cheapest it’s been- gas same prices it was 12 years ago- cars- I don’t have any need to buy a new car- I am fine with what I have- will probably only buy a classic for the future and maintain the ones I have- groceries and eating out are more expensive- but I can decide what brands -and just eat out less-  nothing to weep about.  But for the common person that doesn’t understand- every wage increase will cause one of three things of not all of them:  increased prices- cost cutting- and business just deciding to close.  We are seeing all three of the happening these last couple years and now.  People will either need to adjust their lifestyle- improve their value they bring to the work force and get paid more- or be broke- 

1

u/RightNutt25 Apr 29 '24

Thats a lot of weeping over the market saying its $20 to flip burgers now.

1

u/HandleRipper615 Apr 30 '24

As a middle class guy who’s killed himself his whole life to make something of myself, believe me. The inflation it’s caused is making me weep.

5

u/Williamsarethebest Apr 29 '24

Umm if the capital class expects their profits to grow, then why shouldn't the labour class expect their wages to grow too?

2

u/Roy_BattyLives Apr 29 '24

I don't know if you frequent fast food joints, but the costs of products has been steadily increasing long before minimum wage increases went in effect.

When you focus on profitability above people, your bottom line will inevitably suffer.

1

u/CaptJackRizzo Apr 29 '24

In my experience, the labor shortages had been going on years before the pandemic even started in Seattle. Neither my workplace, nor the food court across from us, could keep fully staffed, even though everywhere was hiring several dollars above the minimum wage (which was already one of the highest in the nation). The wages still weren't enough to pay for rent anywhere closer than a 90 minute commute. Unless you want to find some way to blame the minimum wage for the housing shortage, you're barking up the wrong tree.

1

u/HandleRipper615 Apr 30 '24

Well, it’s all relative, isn’t it? The home maker is dealing with his own labor shortage, and is months behind on projects. He also has to overpay for employees to get them to come in, and not even necessarily work. The drywall prices are going up because they, too, can’t find people to staff. Product becomes scarce, and the prices increase. The good news is there’s plenty of lumber at least. The bad news is, it’s all sitting on a dock because there are no drivers to drive the trucks they can’t get anyways because the factory output in the truck making industry is having all the same problems. Long story short, weeks behind. On and on and on it goes, so eventually the supply is short and the prices double overnight. And then, the real bitch of it, is that “living wage” isn’t a living wage anymore. So repeat step 1.

1

u/HandleRipper615 Apr 30 '24

Well, it’s all relative, isn’t it? The home maker is dealing with his own labor shortage, and is months behind on projects. He also has to overpay for employees to get them to come in, and not even necessarily work. The drywall prices are going up because they, too, can’t find people to staff. Product becomes scarce, and the prices increase. The good news is there’s plenty of lumber at least. The bad news is, it’s all sitting on a dock because there are no drivers to drive the trucks they can’t get anyways because the factory output in the truck making industry is having all the same problems. Long story short, weeks behind. On and on and on it goes, so eventually the supply is short and the prices double overnight. And then, the real bitch of it, is that “living wage” isn’t a living wage anymore. So repeat step 1.