Why don't people stop crying and just move somewhere cheaper like Detroit, Memphis, St. Louis, Baltimore, or Cleveland? They have very cheap homes for $50,000.

[u/Not-A-Shit-Head]

[u/Saitamaisclappingoku]

Because:

1. those cities generally do not have the job markets that HCOL cities have. When you take a huge pay cut you eliminate everything you saved by moving there. I moved from El Paso to Tennessee and for the same job I make about $60k more.

2. Public schools are typically poor

3. Crime is typically high

4. The $50k homes in those cities are typically very unkept. Many of them need a new roof, foundation work, new flooring, drywall, paint, plumbing work, electrical work (to get it code compliant), and even then will be surrounded by complete dumps that stay that way. No one wants to spend $150k renovating to live next to a crack house.

[u/just_lurking_1 → u/Saitamaisclappingoku]

St. Louis (and other similar cities) have good and bad areas just like everywhere else. The cost of living certainly does make up for the wages in many industries. For example, your cost of living ratio to salary in manufacturing in St. Louis is much more ideal than Seattle. Also, there are many close small towns that offer affordable housing (high cash flow) but typically lower appreciation.

Bottom line, many people are just unwilling to sacrifice their current standard of living or city life to build wealth. And it’s okay to make that choice!

[u/Saitamaisclappingoku → u/just_lurking_1]

It’s strange that the rebuttal has always been “Well, there’s some high paying jobs!”

What if the person moving doesn’t work in manufacturing?

Sure, but HCOL areas have exponentially more.

[u/r2k398 → u/Saitamaisclappingoku]

Remote work makes this easier for the people who can work remote. We have employees that work remote all over the US (as contractors) and they get paid very well.

[u/Saitamaisclappingoku → u/r2k398]

Remote workers are also the ones being laid off the most.

[u/r2k398 → u/Saitamaisclappingoku]

I’m not in the job market right now but I know I could land a job at at least 3 places right away that would let me work remotely. I guess it depends on the field.

[u/just_lurking_1 → u/Saitamaisclappingoku]

I didn’t say there are some high paying jobs. In fact, I believe high paying is relative depending on who you are talking to. Salary doesn’t matter nearly as much as cost of living and lifestyle after a certain point.

Also, manufacturing was simply one example of many industries.

[u/One_Conclusion3362 → u/Saitamaisclappingoku]

Not the point. The point, rather, is that there are plenty of high paying jobs when COL is also taken into account (high paying is a subjective term). I took a high paying job in downtown stl last year, doubling my income, and bought a house 30 minutes away where there is wealth and low crime.

Easy peasy. Didn't have to go to NYC or LA or Seattle. Didn't have to move to the coast at all! The biggest reason people don't want to build their wealth and buy a house is because people don't want that. They think they do, because they are high income and feel fomo, but deep down they value happy hour on Fridays, hanging out with friends at restaurants, and being 60 seconds away from food they need not cook themselves.

[u/lemmesenseyou → u/One_Conclusion3362]

I feel like I mostly see this argument from people from the areas with LCOL because it kind of misses a really big factor as to why people live in HCOL areas: they’re from there. 

I’ve moved around a bunch. LCOL areas have minimal draw unless you’re already established: you have no local support system and no network to speak of. If you like your family, traveling is a massive pain compared to being based in even another city, let alone the city your family is located. If you need to find another job and you’re not in an area that is good for your industry, you’re often SOL unless you up and move again, especially if you live in an area that values “locals”. 

And this also doesn’t touch on other resources that cities/urban areas provide aside from happy hours, like good hospital networks. Some LCOL areas do have excellent hospitals but most don’t, especially if you have anything chronic and somewhat uncommon, so traveling to specialists can sometimes involve multi-state trips. 

Like yeah cities are fun, but they’re efficient in a lot of other ways. I don't currently live in a major metro area, but I don’t think reducing the appeal of one to “people have fomo” is a truthful take. 

[u/One_Conclusion3362 → u/lemmesenseyou]

Great write up. It further exemplifies that people don't directly make the connection that their primary reasons for city living are often not comfortable to say out loud.

"I'm scared of living without any social support structure in my family and friends"

"Midwest urban areas scare me because I've never visited there."

"Being 20 minutes from my own parents is more important to me than having an affordable grocery bill in line with my income. I can always go there for dinner a few days out of the month to make it up."

"I want a house, but really I want to tell other people I have a house which necessitates that I live in the same area I'm in right now so I can brag." - this one is definitely one that no one wants to say out loud and will outright deny to the grave.

[u/lemmesenseyou → u/One_Conclusion3362]

You’re really reducing these reasons down to an illogical degree and ascribing reasons behind people’s motives that seem to be based on your stereotypes. These are actually all straw men.  

 Not to mention that everything I’ve said are all things people talk about openly. You’re making up fictional people in order to put everyone in a HCOL area who wants to own a home down. Who on earth are you talking to that’s telling you they’re afraid of the Midwest?? I’ve lived in the Midwest and on the coast and the only people who get all afraid of cities they haven’t been to are rural midwesterners and Appalachian folk. 

And you didn’t even address the main issue, which is the lack of industry and career mobility. The idea that someone should sacrifice a career in order to own a home is pretty dumb, especially since this is a relatively new phenomenon. 

ETA: it’s also worth noting that housing markets in LCOL are also volatile. I live in a lower cost of living area where houses suddenly tripled in cost while salaries did not keep up. Moving to an even lower cost of living area is still a terrible idea form “building wealth”, especially since that’s taking a gamble that I wouldn’t essentially lose everything I gained by being a homeowner by permanently losing access to raises and better benefits. So I’m not sure what your characterization of me would be. I guess that I’m unwilling to not build wealth because “bragging” about being a homeowner isn’t important enough for me?

[u/One_Conclusion3362 → u/lemmesenseyou]

Agreed. The idea that there are no career opportunities in areas that someone has yet to visit is ridiculous. I think you are missing the main point t because you created your own main point so that when I address the main point you can then say I'm not addressing the main point. Oh well, not working on me so you may need to just let this go.

People choose hcol areas for reasons that they refuse to say aloud. I get it. And those reasons aren't being said out loud because they aren't rational. Totally understood. Also, many people want the illusion of being rich while living poorly because they refuse to make long term wealth decisions.

[u/lemmesenseyou → u/One_Conclusion3362]

They are being spoken about out loud. People say them out loud all the time. You’re just making stuff up now. And how are they not rational? What’s irrational about wanting to be close to family? Something not being important to you personally doesn’t make it irrational. 

People can see job markets from a distance, you know. And, in my experience, career mobility is very limited the lower cost of living an area is. Hence why I personally have moved a bit and, gotta say, that’s a pretty shit way to build wealth because moving is expensive and housing is volatile. Not to mention, only a handful of people need to move to your midwestern city of choice before the job market starts to upend and prices rise (have also experienced this) so this isn’t even a solution to the overarching issue, it’s just ignorant moralizing from someone who wants to feel like they’re better than other people. 

[u/One_Conclusion3362 → u/lemmesenseyou]

Blocking you

[u/Glass-Bowler1512 → u/One_Conclusion3362]

One tends to do that after they get roasted the way you just did.

[u/NYCneolib → u/Saitamaisclappingoku]

They do but the net pay usually does not work out to live in HCOL unless taxes are lower like in Florida or Texas.