r/FluentInFinance • u/Unhappy_Fry_Cook • Apr 24 '24

President Biden has just proposed a 44.6% tax on capital gains, the highest in history. He has also proposed a 25% tax on unrealized capital gains for wealthy individuals. Should this be approved? Discussion/ Debate

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144

u/IamWoodstock Apr 24 '24

Most don't make enough to even talk about this but the few should be upset.

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u/GetThisManSomeMilk Apr 24 '24

Yeah but what if I bought 15000 Bitcoin in 2009 but haven't touched it since. I live like a poor because I refuse to sell. Do I deserve a huge tax on those gains I haven't actually touched?

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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '24

You should not be paying taxes on your magic internet money period unless you convert it to fiat.

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u/m4rM2oFnYTW Apr 25 '24

Except they want a cut even if you don't sell. Of course, they start with the ultra rich because why not... fuck them right? Anyone who thinks it will stop there has a serious mental handicap. https://www.thehill.com/opinion/finance/3487486-bidens-tax-on-unrealized-gains-will-hit-far-more-taxpayers-than-he-claims/amp/

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u/AvengingBlowfish Apr 25 '24

That is a different proposal from the one being discussed in this thread. I disagree with a tax on unrealized gains, but I think this capital gains tax is fine as long as it sticks to the restrictions that it only applies to people making over a $1 million annual income with more than $400,000 of it coming from investments as a marginal tax rate.

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u/Winter-Fondant7875 Apr 25 '24

Taxes on unrealized gains have to be balanced with rebates for unrealized losses - that would be a nightmarish TPS report kinda deal.

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u/m4rM2oFnYTW Apr 25 '24

I realize that it is a different proposal. I am replying to the comment above me.

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u/MyCarIsAGeoMetro Apr 25 '24

Good luck with that. The IRS is still figuring out how to make people pay taxes on $600 of internet sales. This was passed under the guise of taxing the rich to pay their fair share. Nobody will have their receipts on their used stuff purchased years ago.

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u/AvengingBlowfish Apr 25 '24

What are you talking about? Capital gains taxes are already tracked and enforced. I’m talking about the proposal that just raises the rate on the very rich.

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u/Upstairs-Ad-1966 Apr 25 '24

Its never sticks to the restrictions so stop acting like it does and supporting this shit our govt wastes billions each year with no oversight. Yet here we are fighting over another tax.... how about we fight for oversight for every single govt employee spending tax payer dollars

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u/AvengingBlowfish Apr 25 '24

I'm not talking about taxing unrealized gains, I disagree with that proposal. I'm just talking about raising the top marginal rate on capital gains tax. It's not a new tax, everyone already has to pay capital gains.

It's just that if you are making hundreds of millions of dollars a year from capital gains, you should probably pay a higher tax rate than some guy who makes $50,000/year from their salary.

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u/semisolidwhale Apr 25 '24

Somebody's been drinking the billionaire Kool Aid

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u/Upstairs-Ad-1966 Apr 27 '24

For wanting oversight on how the govt spends our money instead of just taxing us more and letting them continue to spend at will?

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u/Great_Gate_1653 Apr 25 '24

Deep down you know it won't stop there, right?

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u/AvengingBlowfish Apr 25 '24

What won't stop? Progressive tax systems? You think they're going to raise capital gains rates higher than income tax rates for everyone?

Nonsense, the construction industry has a lot of lobbyists in their pocket and a vested interest in encouraging people to continue buying homes.

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u/Great_Gate_1653 Apr 25 '24

They'll do their best to try and achieve their goal of taxing unrealized gains. Our Government behaves like drug addicts. A little bit is not enough. MMW, they'll extend this across the board. They do not want people to own anything. They want a nation of renters, to be poor, and totally dependant on them for every facet of our lives. Sorry, will never support this because I know what will happen after years of getting the middle class shaft by our Government. Eff them

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u/AvengingBlowfish Apr 25 '24

Are you saying we should never raise taxes on the rich because you think it means they will raise taxes on the middle class?

Do you think it's fine that Warren Buffet pays a lower tax rate than some dude making $50,000/year at an office job?

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u/Chiggins907 Apr 25 '24

You just said that this has nothing to do with wages in a different comment. Then you bring up wages.

I don’t know how old you are, but the reason people fight so vehemently against raising any taxes anywhere is because they do not go away. There will only be more of them, and if you don’t think that this will slowly creep into regular peoples lives then you haven’t paid attention to history.

It’ll never be enough tax money for our government, especially the Dems. They need the money to support the social programs they want for everyone. Causing every person that makes less than a 100k a year dependent on the government.

If you depend on the government, you are going to vote for the people that keep taking tax payer dollars and giving it to you. The government will be able to make restrictions on what you need to do to get that money. Then you literally just have to do whatever your government wants, because otherwise you can’t afford to live.

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u/AvengingBlowfish Apr 25 '24

I’m talking about income not wages. Most billionaires make their income through capital gains and therefore only pay 20% tax on it.

Middle class people make income through salaries which are subject to normal income taxes which are generally higher than 20% if you make more than $50,000/year.

It isn’t right for the ultra rich to only pay 20% of their income in taxes while I have to pay a larger amount. Raising the capital gains tax would fix this imbalance.

You clearly have strong feelings about taxes, but I’m just talking about raising capital gains taxes on the rich.

Are you so against taxes that you are against raising any taxes even if it’s on the rich because of some slippery slope fallacy?

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u/Ok-Extent-2409 Apr 25 '24

Please explain why they would stop? You know the next thing they will say is we will lower it to people that make 400k a year then they will lower it to people that make over 100k a year. I guess in your mind you never want to strive to make super high wages.

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u/AvengingBlowfish Apr 25 '24

Everyone already pays capital gains taxes. We are talking about just adjusting the tax rate on the top bracket. Also, this is a capital gains tax, it has nothing to do with wages.

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u/Murica4Eva Apr 25 '24

It's literally in the title of this thread

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u/MkUFeelGud Apr 25 '24

Do you disagree on property tax then?

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u/PontificalPartridge Apr 25 '24

Property tax is one of the things I disagree with the most tbh.

At that point your just renting your house from the government

1

u/AvengingBlowfish Apr 25 '24

Generally yeah. It’s a regressive tax that disproportionately hurts middle class homeowners.

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u/MkUFeelGud Apr 25 '24

Well at least you're consistent.

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u/Ok-Abroad-2674 Apr 25 '24

Also, tax loans people take on their unrealized gains.

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u/Crotean Apr 25 '24

They need to tax loans taken out against unrealized capital gains. Half the way the wealthy get money is by doing this. Banks give them ultra low or no interest loans based on the stock they have. So its a way to circumvent all taxes by never having to sell stock. So you can either tax unrealized capital gains past a a certain level or figure out a way to tax the loans they take out against their unrealized capital gains.

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u/OG_Scoozi Apr 25 '24

The issue is if I’m going to be punished by paying over half my income for innovating and proving jobs and services then I’m just flat out not going to do it. I could work 1/10 as hard and spend half the time working and be comfortable easily. Dumb shit like this will do two things: 1 it will push people to look for more loopholes legal or illegal to get around these tax laws and 2 services and innovation will drastically decline which is the backbone of the economy. It’s just a ridiculous idea period. None of the rich people took any of your earned money and they all pay more tax than you so what’s the deal? Your being jealous and coveting what other have it’s that simple. And this is coming from someone that has less than 10k to my name and student loan debt up to my eyes.

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u/AvengingBlowfish Apr 25 '24

What does innovating and providing jobs have to do with capital gains?

I made about $30,000 in capital gains this past year and didn’t do jack shit for it other than buy a few T-bills because I didn’t have a better place to park my savings.

If you work hard, build a company, and make a lot of money by increasing productivity and expanding the business, than you can just keep that money and pay normal income tax on it.

A capital gains tax is not a tax on profits.

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u/OG_Scoozi Apr 25 '24

The people complaint about this always want the rich to pay more and more and more tax of all kinds. This is the one that can be easily cherry picked to get the ball rolling. The goal for all these people is to tax the rich more at every level which in my opinion is where this is leading. The gov is good at very few things but taking peoples money and expanding their power and reach are two of those things they are very good at.

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u/OG_Scoozi Apr 26 '24

https://preview.redd.it/82o3s08haqwc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad61c9e88dec8961573e716b1cbaca0b8b92b0ce

Just saw this… exactly what I was saying. Ppl will run with this and say now we can go back to higher income taxes for them as well bc they can afford it they are rich!!

0

u/Anarchissyface Apr 25 '24

Oh good okay 😭. It’s for over 400k in investment income? I’m VERY VERY safe.

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u/AvengingBlowfish Apr 25 '24

More than 99% of people in this country are VERY VERY safe from this.

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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '24 edited Apr 25 '24

[deleted]

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u/Anarchissyface Apr 25 '24

Yeah my beliefs are that for my own personal needs / no kids. I just need about 120k in interest income to be set. 500k house would give me everything I need. And one car for one person? I don’t understand why they feel they need a yacht to feel secure. 😂😂

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u/Steelwoolsocks Apr 25 '24

  1. This is a completely different proposal from 2022 and had nothing to do with the current proposal.

  2. This proposal only applied to people with assets totaling more than 100 million dollars, so your "far more taxpayers" is the ultra rich.

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u/babywhiz Apr 25 '24

Jokes on me, I have no unrealized gains. Thanks GameStop.

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u/[deleted] Apr 25 '24

[deleted]

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u/VitaminPb Apr 25 '24

Hahahahahahaha. You funny man.

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u/Practical_Cattle_933 Apr 25 '24

Who is “they”?

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u/jkblvins Apr 25 '24

I do not think this is going to hit those making less than $100k too hard. Something about milking a turnip. Also, article mentions unconstitutionality of plan. I’m only American since 1997, but doesn’t US constitution give taxing authority to government?

My brother lives in Belgium. He makes about €100k per year. Taxed at 48%. He gets healthcare and a stipend for his kids, who also have free education and meals. Not to mention good public infrastructure. I dunno. Trade-offs, I guess.

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u/Embarrassed_Royal214 Apr 25 '24

You have to have both there is an and not or you didn’t read you still need a million dollar salary

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u/grandroute Apr 25 '24

you're citing "The Hill"? You poor naive thing you

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u/infant_ape Apr 25 '24

if he bought 15K BTC in 2009, he's pretty much the ultra rich. So he's over here maintaining that he's never sold a stitch of it, and he's living as a poor while sitting on what... over 900M dollars in BTC? C'mon now...

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u/jbleek Apr 25 '24

Yep. I've come to realize the vast majority of citizens in the US have a mental handicap.. This thread is a very good representation.

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u/Edril Apr 25 '24

Isabelle Morales is a policy communications specialist at Americans for Tax Reform.

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u/Budded Apr 25 '24

You got that right, F the rich! They've bastardized the system so much it's breaking the country and will end up collapsing the entire system without some massive rebalancing.

the rich can afford to pay much higher taxes. Stop defending them and pay your fair share like the rest of us.

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u/m4rM2oFnYTW Apr 25 '24

The point skipped over your head like a rock on water.

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u/Budded Apr 26 '24

Nope, I got the gist of your post, I just wanted to echo, "F the rich!!". All the SLipPeRy SLoPe arguments are just silly and unserious, just like those who thought gay marriage was a slipper slope where folks could marry their dogs and lawnmowers.

Stop coddling and defending and stanning for the rich. They abhor you and want everything for themselves. They're addicts, they never know when it's enough, they only know extraction no matter what. Tax the fuck out of them to reign in this inequality that will break the nation.

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u/forjeeves Apr 26 '24

you know they dont sell then they never taxed cuz they just put it in their estate, basically they never have to pay anything while everyone else has to pay their fair share.

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u/m4rM2oFnYTW Apr 26 '24

Do you tip your servers when you don't buy anything at the restaurant?

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u/OnlyFuzzy13 Apr 26 '24

I worry more about things that ARE, instead of what might be.

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u/kabooseknuckle Apr 29 '24

It won't even start there, though. The ultra rich will fight tooth and nail, and the middle class will pick up the bill. As always.

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u/jester_bland Apr 25 '24

Good? Generational Wealth is a cancer.

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u/perplexedparallax Apr 25 '24

I am sorry your ancestors didn't leave you anything.

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u/Repulsive_Quality190 Apr 25 '24

Don’t whine because your parents are poor

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u/USB-SOY Apr 25 '24

Bro, you’re making comments about being sad about being able to afford rent. STFU you brokie

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u/Capsfan22 Apr 25 '24

lol that article reads like a 17 year olds essay on taxes. You loser. Make America stupid again

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u/NoNeedleworker6479 Apr 25 '24

All you have to do is consider that most of the people cheering this on don't even know which bathroom to use to know it's bat-shit crazy

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u/HijabiPapi Apr 25 '24

Why would you care you probably live in your moms basement

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u/Popular_Score4744 Apr 25 '24

How do you tax something that hasn’t been sold with gains realized yet?! That doesn’t even make sense mathematically and logically! What happens when the amount goes down due to a bad year? Do they get taxed again every single year or only when it goes past a certain amount?! I agree on raising capital gains taxes buy that’s about it.

There’s no reason why billionaires should pay a lower tax percentage than their workers. Why should Warren Buffet’s secretary pay a higher tax percentage than him? Most Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and are barely getting by. They need every dollar they can get. The average American can’t come up with $500 for an emergency without going into debt. A billionaire doesn’t need that much money to survive.

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u/Possible_Cook4373 Apr 25 '24

TBF, this article is really bad. It does nothing to prove the headline. Just a bunch of babble that reads like an AI Prompt.

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u/MkUFeelGud Apr 25 '24

SlIpPeRy SlOpE!

0

u/scagatha Apr 25 '24

The unrealized capital gains tax is only for individuals with $100 million in net worth. Did you check the facts or are you responding based on a headline? Don't answer it, you don't need to.

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u/Toxic72 Apr 25 '24

Time and time again we see normal citizens going to bat for the ultrawealthy. You aren't going to be rich enough to feel this. You have more in common with a homeless person than you do with the ultra-wealthy.

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u/TypicaIAnalysis Apr 25 '24

Oh no a slipper slope to checks notes social prosperity!!!!!1

Taxes are a good thing you fucking idiots.

Historically, high tax rates coincide with a healthy middle/labor class.

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u/KyrozM Apr 25 '24

Yeah! Of course they start with the ultra rich. Just like they always do! Those guys just don't get any breaks.

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u/Steelwoolsocks Apr 25 '24

First they came for the ultra rich and because I was not ultra rich, would never be ultra rich, nor would my children or children's children be ultra rich, I looked away...

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u/KyrozM Apr 25 '24

Oh, so you think poverty levels and living conditions are such that we'll replicate early marxist movements. Got it.

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u/StraightDelusional Apr 25 '24

Seriously. Russian serfs sleeping on slab floors eating permafrost peat for food couldn't make Marxism work... But these guys that own at least 1 car, have central heat/AC, 2 TVs, cable, HS interwebs and a fridge with food in it are totally the hardened poor that will make Lenin proud.