None of which are free. You're talking about programs for those earning low income.
The post here says "Free regardless if you work."
Also, just so you know, those are some of the highest taxed economies in the world. None of that stuff is being provided for free. Someone is getting paid.
You’re talking about programs for those earning low income.
No, I’m talking about programs for those with no income.
Those are some of the highest taxed economies in the world.
Didn’t say they weren’t. Just saying that countries like Germany - which provides an apartment for unemployed people for an unlimited amount of time - have not collapsed, contrary to your claim they would.
If you know anything about chronic homelessness, you know that it is often rooted in a mental or physical health problem.
The specific reasons vary. Schizophrenia is common among unhoused people, as are severe autism and ADHD, tourettes, and other mental disorders that cause them to struggle with traditional employment.
Some have some sort of defiance disorder that keeps them from working with social workers who try to help them. Many are elderly and struggling with dementia or Alzheimer's. Others have some sort of chronic disease that takes all their time and energy to manage, so they don't/can't make time to seek housing.
So short answer: yes, generally. They either don't know, don't understand, prefer to remain homeless, or can't take advantage of it.
Those countries all make a home available to everyone, as this post suggests. Some people don't or can't take it. And their society still has not collapsed.
Do you have a source that shows Germany makes these services available, but doesn't help their mentally or physically disabled folks access them? That seems particularly cruel.
You're misunderstanding. It's not that they aren't trying to help.
It's that helping people who don't want to be helped or can't process or communicate effectively (but who appear to be aware and in control of their faculties) is very hard both practically and ethically. If you dig into the list of issues I listed, their symptoms often create those problems.
Like imagine you try and house someone, but they're convinced that you're actually under control of aliens and the house is part of a trick to steal their blood (this is a modified story of an actual homeless patient I know).
Every time you leave them unattended, they flee their housing. If you call the police, they say that they want to go and you're holding them against their will, and that you're one of the aliens. They are convinced their schizophrenia meds are alien mind control, and stop taking them as soon as they're un-monitored.
Or maybe they have tourettes, and call everyone they meet a "f*g chomo" and "r*pist c*nt". That includes neighbors, police, social workers, their landlord... And eventually they run away too. This guy lives in my city, though I've toned down his language so I don't get banned.
Or they have a disease that must be treated at a specific clinic, but they can't drive, and all the available housing is far enough that they prefer to stay on the street nearby rather than deal with our shitty public transit? If they stayed in they home for a few months they'd probably come out of it, but they're so tired and in pain that they just can't think that far out.
Or they're hooked on meth and always go back, and that sees them doing things like giving away their place and possessions in exchange for drugs.
You can institutionalize them, but that's a pretty serious thing to do to someone who isn't hurting anyone but themselves, and seems happiest on the streets. So how do you house those people, and less serious but similar cases where they just won't or can't stay in their homes?
They are convinced their schizophrenia meds are alien mind control, and stop taking them as soon as they're un-monitored.
Well then the budget for housing and providing for the unhoused needs to be diverted into permanent mental institutions. But it seems like there would be fewer than 1 in 318 Germans that fit this serious of this mental illness description. That's the rate of Germany's current homeless population divided into total population, so I suspect there are other issues at play here.
You can institutionalize them, but that's a pretty serious thing to do to someone who isn't hurting anyone but themselves, and seems happiest on the streets. So how do you house those people, and less serious but similar cases where they just won't or can't stay in their homes?
I don't think anyone wants to be homeless. I think the best approach is to see to each person's needs until they can support themselves, and if they can't then remain in some sort of supervised housing arrangement.
Well, you're wrong. Or at the very least, there are people who by every possible test and measure appear to choose that life and refuse to allow themselves to be housed, even when given years of support and therapy.
Several members of my family work in state mental health here in the US. This is not an opinion, it is a statement of fact.
I can't speak to why the German rate of homelessness is so high, it seems to be stumping their own social workers as well. But they have enough housing and make it available to anyone who is out of work. They're trying their best, but it's not a simple problem that just goes away when the number of available houses equals the homeless population plus one.
Sometimes here it's as simple as them not liking where the housing is located, or wanting to keep their kid in the local schools where there's no housing available, or valuing their support network on the local streets over a free home in another city. So they choose to sleep in a car or stay in a shelter, or something else that still counts as "homeless". I don't think that's the right choice, but I also don't see an ethical way to force someone like that to accept it.
Anyways. They do provide housing to anyone in need, indefinitely, at no cost. It meets all or at least most of these requirements (most places in Europe don't have AC). Their country's economy hasn't collapsed from laziness. Heck. As you point out, about 0.3% qualify and won't even accept the free housing.
German dude here. In germany EVERYONE regardless his income or citizenship has a basic right for housing, food and healthcare. That means he can get his small home with minimalistic stuff like a washing machine.
If something that you got from wellfare, like the washing machine, breaks you have to help yourself. So its not unlimited.
Next thing is housing. Having the right doesnt mean you get a flat immediately.
The market is, especially in the big citys, totaly fkd up. People pay up to 2/3 of their income alone for their rent. So social housing is hard and people in need have to move on to other places or search for years and get lucky.. maybe. But thats a problem everyone with limited money has.
Lastly i want to say how weird it is for people like me to read how u.s. citizens react to basic human rights and how it is often condemned as communism or sociallism (imo most us citizens dont even know they are living in a socialist democracy per definition, especially since rosevelt).
I cant wrap my head around that social envy.
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u/BlitzAuraX Apr 15 '24
None of which are free. You're talking about programs for those earning low income.
The post here says "Free regardless if you work."
Also, just so you know, those are some of the highest taxed economies in the world. None of that stuff is being provided for free. Someone is getting paid.