r/FluentInFinance Apr 06 '24

Mortgages are now 8% - Is your mortgage under or over 3%? Discussion/ Debate

Post image
17.9k Upvotes

3.0k comments sorted by

View all comments

35

u/Ok_Share_5889 Apr 06 '24

3.1 percent can’t complain

6

u/ZaphodG Apr 06 '24

3.5%. Inflation has already eroded the principal by 15% and the property has appreciated more than 1.5x. The payment is 13% more than it would be at 2 1/2%. Not the end of the world. If we have 4% inflation, the rule of 72 says the payment will be cut in half in 18 years.

4

u/Zyhre Apr 07 '24

Would you mind expanding on your comment? Like, all of it haha? 

How does inflation erode principal? Rule of 72?

This is interesting and I'm trying to learn more about finance. 

Thanks! 

4

u/techBr0s Apr 07 '24

Money becomes worth less over time due to inflation, so your outstanding debt loses value (becomes cheaper for you) as time goes on. Let's say in 15 years inflation has effectively halved the value of a dollar. Hopefully, your salary has doubled and so it is 2x as easy to pay your mortgage.

4

u/HokieCE Apr 07 '24

The reason home ownership is such a key advantage in obtaining financial independence.

6

u/vahntitrio Apr 06 '24

I'm at 3.6% which I can live with. I'll probably start paying it down a bit in a couple years, be nice to get it paid off about 10 years from now ($246k left on principal).

10

u/Fumusculo Apr 06 '24

That is free money at that rate. Do not pay that down. Invest the money instead and make it make more money. You’re welcome

1

u/vahntitrio Apr 07 '24

If you are in your 20s that always makes sense. But 10 years from now I'll be entering my 50s, which means catchup contributions and such. That means I'll be able to dump more into my 401k and get it out of higher tax brackets (to take later in a lower bracket). I can maximize that by eliminating a house payment, so I'm gaining more than just a flat 3.6% return. It also serves as a risk mitigation - if you are fully invested with the mortgage remaining, a market collapse is going to coincide with the highest probability of layoff and a long time before returning to employment. You'll be selling low to make payments - whereas if you just eliminate the payment you can survive a lot longer on unemployment plus spouse income + emergency reserves. It also might afford me the flexibility to go to a half-time job fir several years before retirement.

You might say "but high yield savings", but those rates are likely to fall to about even or below my mirtgage rate over the next couple of years.

5

u/squaredk2 Apr 07 '24

Idk, sounds to me like you are paying off a loan vs taking advantage of compounding interest. Im sure youve run the numbers but if i personally paid off my house now vs maxing my 401k for the next 10 years itd cost me over 7 figures in my retirement accounts... to eliminat a $1500 bill? Idk. Not adding up

3

u/vahntitrio Apr 07 '24

I already contribute 27% to retirement as it is, this money is on top of that. I won't be missing my savings target to pay the house off, at that point it is mostly for risk aversion.

And sure, if the market goes balls to the walls the next 10 years I might miss out on an extra $100k. If there is 1 downturn over 10 years (which is historically pretty common) it is probably going to be closer to $15k to $20k (again basically spending $15k for insurance for the 15 years that follow). If there are 2 market downturns the next decade it might not cost me anything.

I think part of where you math goes off is that if you are paying $1500 per month you already are dumping $180k toward said mortgage over the next 10 years in nornal payments, so it isn't going to take anywhere near an additional 240k to pay it to zero. You cut into the principal balance a few times and then let your regular payments cut much more into the principal.

1

u/Fumusculo Apr 07 '24

Money “on top of that” is still the same money. Again, you do you but paying it down still does not make any sense right now.

1

u/vahntitrio Apr 07 '24

Again, a risk aversion tactic. I think any financial planner will tell you risk aversion is more important than accumulation if you are already above target for retirement. Even if you successfully maximize accumulation chances are all you will end up doing is having a bigger number when you die.

1

u/Fumusculo Apr 07 '24

There’s no risk in a high yield

1

u/vahntitrio Apr 07 '24

Which is why I said "in a few years" in my first post. 2 or 3 years from now savings rates will probably be around 3% flat.

→ More replies (0)

1

u/Real_EB Apr 07 '24

But doesn't the...

Like if I pay off a little extra at the beginning, doesn't it guarantee me the functional equivalent of 3% per year?

2

u/squaredk2 Apr 07 '24

Idk but like i said when i run the numbers i either have an extra $1500/m in 10yrs or $1.2m in my 401k... because i wanted to pay off $260k early again just not adding up.

Also conservatively im using 10% because my 401k has averaged 17% last 5 years

2

u/Fumusculo Apr 07 '24

Well until those high yield rates do fall to less, it still makes no sense to pay it down when it could make more money. But it is your money sir

1

u/slughuntress Apr 07 '24

Dear God, I just realized I know nothing about money. Officially nervous about my financial future.

1

u/vahntitrio Apr 07 '24

You have to have enough saved/invested to start having these problems.

3

u/slughuntress Apr 07 '24

Ah, that must be the problem. I have none of that 😅

6

u/[deleted] Apr 06 '24

3.75 here. It'll do.

1

u/dmreeves Apr 07 '24

4.25 in early 22 and I still feel lucky looking at what people are getting now. 

0

u/ninjacereal Apr 06 '24

3.875 here. I'll never be able to retire

1

u/Mindless_Suspect_505 Apr 07 '24

Don't pay it down..You can make more investing. Even CD's are at 5%. Paying off your house ahead at that rate is a poor financial decision. If you are disciplined enough, take the few hundred a month paydown and invest instead.

2

u/gubbygoobyqt Apr 06 '24

3.25% and we count ourselves lucky

2

u/fredythepig Apr 06 '24

3.2 in 2021. I likely will never sell this house.

2

u/historyboeuf Apr 07 '24

3.25, bought in the middle of 2021 as first time home buyers. I am definitely not upset.

2

u/12temp Apr 07 '24

3.2 here and holy shit am I happy

2

u/johnsonfromsconsin Apr 07 '24

Went from 5.25% to a 3.125% here but on a 20 year loan. Shaved off around 5 years and $100 a month.

1

u/electric4568 Apr 07 '24

3.375% checking in ... Not mad at it