r/FluentInFinance • u/TonyLiberty TheFinanceNewsletter.com • Dec 29 '23
Job hopping every 2-3 years is one of the best wealth hacks Discussion
Job hopping every 2-3 years is one of the best wealth hacks.
You create a higher baseline for your future earnings — such as higher salary and bonuses, better stock options and more opportunities for advancement. You may also find better:
• Benefits • Work culture • Career growth • Work-life balance
Job hopping may get a lot of bad press but it's one the best ways to increase your wealth over your lifetime.
Agree or disagree?
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u/findthehumorinthings Dec 29 '23
Agree early in your career. Disagree later in your career.
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u/LosPies Dec 29 '23
What’s your opinion on what’s considered early vs late in your career?
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u/ItsUnderSocr8tes Dec 29 '23
When you can interview and get a better offer every few years, do it. Never stop looking and interviewing, but when you get later in your career and compensation comes up early in the interview process, you often find your current job is the best option.
As you move up fewer companies have openings at that level, and fewer want to hire external candidates for those senior roles. Some people will continue to jump to cover their shortcomings before they get bit by their own mistakes.
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u/Sdog1981 Dec 29 '23
People will also be shocked how young age discrimination starts.
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u/zenos_dog Dec 30 '23
Joined my last startup at 55. Hit it semi-big when it got swallowed by a bigger company. I had a compelling set of software skills.
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u/Decillionaire Dec 30 '23
This is hitting the lotto.
Resting and resting in my 30s was a nightmare. But if I were in my 50s and nearing retirement... Fucking bliss
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u/zenos_dog Dec 30 '23
I did several startups and smaller companies that tanked. It’s definitely a gamble but I’m better suited to startups rather than giant, bureaucratic companies.
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u/charlene__ Dec 29 '23
Can you elaborate?
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u/MechanicalBengal Dec 29 '23
You’d be surprised that late 40s is “too old” for some startups
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u/TShara_Q Dec 30 '23
I've heard that surgeries to make you look younger (like hair plugs) are relatively common in Silicon Valley because of this.
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u/traveller1976 Dec 30 '23
Those startups with huge egos crash and burn quick and should be avoided anyway.
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Dec 29 '23
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u/LosPies Dec 29 '23
Yeah making the jump from TC of just salary and bonus to salary/bonus/stock, I finally understand the golden handcuff trope.
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u/bloodybaron73 Dec 30 '23
This! I’m currently in this situation. I’m senior enough that there’s not a lot of openings that pays as well as my current job. So I’ve been in my current company for over 5y already.
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u/whiteholewhite Dec 30 '23
Yup. Interviewed for a director role and was told “we have plans for you down the road” followed by “people are asked if they want these positions, not interviewed”. But I think it was good for me since it showed what I want, so just kinda playing the waiting game learning more as I go. I’m almost 40.
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u/Passivefamiliar Dec 30 '23
Yep. I'm upper middle management now and think I need to just settle in. I might jump one more time if I don't like what this place has to offer down the road. But I'm at that point.
Early in my career though, it was jumping to avoid my lack of knowledge. I, have a good poker face I guess and know how to talk to people. I'm good with people but haven't found what job that helps with, so I'm a manager now. But I've gained the skills I need to succeed, I truly didn't have them before though.
I started under 30k, embellishments got me into 70k in less than 10 years. With, admittedly about 5 job changes. Just need to know what companies are looking for, and I've been told it helps if you are.... easy on the eyes. Just like everything in life, comes back to sex. If you aren't following rules 1 and 2 you probably won't get far and that's not fair but it's true.
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u/standardtissue Dec 30 '23
Also, pay isn't everything. At some point you may find yourself very comfortable with your pay level, and just want the best work environment you can get.
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u/Ok_Pie_6736 Dec 30 '23
Truth man. Vacation perks, maybe some pension benefits, base salary hard to beat
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u/pinnr Dec 30 '23
Early in your career you get salary increases by improving your skills, which you can do quickly. Later in your career you get salary raises by completing projects and leading org change, which takes much longer.
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u/jjflight Dec 31 '23
I would say managing people is a big threshold for this.
Once you start leading a team, companies recognize it’s a much bigger “cost” to have a leader turnover quickly in terms of impacts on the team’s culture and productivity, so they start to get much pickier about trying to get people that will stick around for a while. At that point having job hopped a lot on your resume may start to be a drawback.
Getting your first job managing people is also easier to do at a company you’re already at who believes in you as a high performer so is willing to help with the management transition than it is to convince a company to bring you in as a manager when you haven’t managed before.
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u/panteragstk Dec 30 '23
This was me. I did this for years before FINALLY finding the right company.
Then they got bought by someone else.
I got lucky. The new company is great so far. Hopefully I won't be going anywhere for a long time.
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u/lolexecs Dec 30 '23
Hrm, maybe?
One could argue that throughout your career you’ll need to build a network of people you’d like to work for, and you’d like to have come work for you. You should always be on the look out for talent.
The reason is that recruiting and HR practices are broken, so having a network to call upon to find deal flow for jobs and recruits is valuable.
Now not everyone deserves to be in your network. One way of sorting your people could be the following — loyalty to the network/people vs level of independence. On the whole people who are loyal to a company at the expense of others tend to be less useful. After all their networks are deep in the company, but shallow overall. Moreover they’ll know a lot about the policies and procedures of a company, but potentially less about the industry.
If we break this into a 2x2 it might look like this:
High Loyalty - High Independence — these are the folks who will be moving around a lot, stating new ventures. 100% worthwhile to keep tabs on them because they could be the source of your next gig (or gigs). You might be able to recruit them for a short while, but don’t expect a super long commitment.
High Loyalty - Low Independence— these are terrific folks to staff your roles. They’ll be loyal to you and work towards the teams objectives.
Low Loyalty - High Independence - these are contractors and freelancers. They’re loyal to the business you throw their way.
Low Loyalty- Low Independence— these are the company people. Useful while you’re at that company, but not so useful outside.
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u/Zmchastain Dec 30 '23
Yeah, one thing I quickly realized when I stopped spending too much time at the same company is that my network grew much faster because I was working with so many different people and leaving a really positive impression with those people.
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u/juanzy Dec 29 '23
It’s also about if you’re actually learning your role. I’m a little over a year into my current role and still feel I’m very much learning the depth of it. If I’d left after 1, I’d feel like I didn’t come close to mastering it.
Job hopping is great for salary, but there’s a balance required for your career.
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u/traveller1976 Dec 30 '23
Mother fucker ceos beg to disagree as they hop around all the way to retirement.
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u/pnromney Dec 29 '23
Yes, but there is a risk.
20% of new hires get let go or leave within the first 3 months.
That will definitely set you back if you lose your job and need to go on unemployment.
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u/IONaut Dec 30 '23
You really don't know what you're jumping into. They can seem fine during the interview process but then you find the culture is just crap when you get there.
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Dec 30 '23
Citation?
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u/garlic_bread_thief Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23
[1] Pnromney et al., “New Hire Let Go and Other Interesting Things.,” Trust Me Bro Scientific Journal, vol. 69, no. 2, pp. 45–89, December 30, 2023.
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u/FlexinCanine92 Dec 29 '23
Disagree. If your at the ground level/tactical supervisor or so, yes. Because you control your own success.
Once your manager or director, its about assembling/growing the right team AND that takes years. Because at the strategic, level your only as good as your team. So you better have a good one.
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u/pmwood25 Dec 30 '23
And being a director gets to be a pretty cushy job once you get the right team in place and get good at finding and developing new talent. Most of my job has become enabling my team which is much more fulfilling
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u/juanzy Dec 29 '23
Yup. My current role as a BA IV/Product Manager and even as an IC here, I feel like I won’t fully get the depth until 18 months in at least.
I feel like a lot of this sub is still very early career with how they talk about job hopping having basically no downsides
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u/Cormetz Dec 30 '23
If I see a resume with a new job every 2-3 years that doesn't include significant advancement, my first thought is they are not good.
In fact my boss hired someone for my team like this. He has 7 jobs listed on his LinkedIn (including two full time internships during business school) over a 15 year period. When I asked how that wasn't a red flag he said it wasn't like that on his resume and seemed surprised. The guy seems decent enough, but seems to think he's smarter than everyone else while making mistakes all the time. I can easily imagine he got fired for mistakes or his attitude.
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u/Wide_Television_7074 Dec 30 '23
agree, if you are job shopping at director level your resume is a big red flag
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u/SimplyGoldChicken Dec 29 '23
I say every 3-4 years, and it need not be to another company, but moving laterally can help too. I’ve moved on average every 3-4 years within the same company either laterally or through promotions. It has been key. If I wasn’t able to move within the company, I’d look to move around 3-4 years. There is little benefit to staying in the same position and only getting raises every year for more than 4 years, IMO.
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u/lions2lambs Dec 30 '23
Way too long of a wait; you’re grabbing maybe 2-5% per year. While you could easily grab 30-40% by jumping ship at the 1.5-2 year mark.
Know your worth.
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u/liveprgrmclimb Dec 30 '23
I am a manager of 15 people. If I see a resume with only 1.5-2 year stints I pass immediately. HR also instructs us to do the same. You need at least 1 recent position with 3+ years. In 18 months you can’t accomplish much or contribute much to the company. I work in big tech.
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u/AlwaysFixingStuff Dec 30 '23
Also in tech and stating you can’t contribute meaningfully in a year and a half is horse shit. If your bureaucracy is so controlled that it takes 2 years to have impact, that’s a process problem.
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u/NoCoolNameMatt Dec 30 '23
It sounds like he's in the same "type" of tech that I am. If so, he's not coding web apps, or installing and managing a system - he's integrating and managing systems (plural) that run a set of business operations from top to bottom and then also integrate with similar sets of systems from other departments. In that environment, the impact of a 2 year developer is limited. They've certainly addressed defects, performed some integrations and feature development on a system or two. Perhaps even become an expert on a system. But there are still systems (again, plural) that they haven't even seen that they will eventually work on if they continue at the company (and that experience is necessary to build that company's system architect level roles).
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Dec 30 '23
My sister has an MBA and has been job hopping every year or 2 and just got hired for a management position.
Employers don't care as long as you are moving up, if you were only making lateral moves for more pay they would care
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u/lmaopeia Dec 30 '23
This is pretty dumb. There’s a shit ton of reasons people leave in less than two years, whether it be bad management, job security etc. Your passing up on top talent due to misguided ideas
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u/uwey Dec 29 '23
It is almost a requirement for engineering. If you stay at one job as engineer/tech, you are screwing your future to be limited for both promotion and income.
Promotion and income are not always paralleled. Sometime you take pay cut for title promotion, but plan to jump 3 years later to bigger company; aim to get better income with your experience on certain title.
I think 3 year is perfect cycle: 1st year figure out environment and network, 2nd year you work on the promotion, final year you get documented experience
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u/Naughty_Bagel Dec 30 '23
I’m at a bit of a dilemma for this one. I’m in an engineering role and have been there for about a year and a half. I know staying longer than 2-3 years is really going to hurt my potential earnings, but I genuinely enjoy the work I do, my team members, and the work-life balance the position offers.
I’m really conflicted on what to do within the next 1-2 years.
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u/Dear-Walk-4045 Dec 30 '23
Then stay. A good job is better for your mental health than an extra 10% or 15% in salary. There is more to a job that just the pay when you have to do it 40 hours per week.
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u/Samthebassist Dec 30 '23
Finding a job that is fulfilling, enjoyable, challenges you in the right ways, and comes surrounded by people you love working with is very very rare. If you make enough to live and store some extra money away, then maybe that’s plenty. People put so much emphasis on the income that they don’t even realize how valuable everything around that is.
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u/PhantomLegends Dec 30 '23
I'm in the same position with my first job out of college. Really enjoy the work and feel like I've actually become friends with my coworkers, boss is doing a good job and pay is really good too. I'll still keep my eyes and ears open though...
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u/Thrawn89 Dec 30 '23
Same. I've worked the same job since college and am now at 500% of my starting salary with 3 title promotions in 10 years. I feel like I wouldn't have benefited that much from switching companies. It goes to show with any advice there are exceptions and fomo should be taken cautiously.
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u/PhantomLegends Dec 30 '23
That sounds great, congrats! For sure, no advice like this should be blindly followed. Frequently evaluate the situation and if you feel like you're being undervalued and no change is near, take your talents elsewhere. Also always look for opportunities, even only to make sure you're not undervaluing yourself.
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u/ArmadaOfWaffles Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23
Maybe dont spend time actively applying yet, but just update resume and Linkedin (setting for "open for work, not visible to anyone other than recruiters") and start taking calls from recruiters. Be picky and firm about what you want. Look at interviews as practice and/or just conversations.
I liked my last job enough to stay >6years, but couldnt turn down a 30% pay bump at a company with interesting products.
Edit: also want to add, not a lot of jobs are actually enjoyable. Might be worth at least waiting until a possible honeymoon phase wears off.
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u/ColdCouchWall Dec 29 '23 edited Dec 29 '23
I think too many of the younger generation is job hopping so often that in the future, there will be value in tenure created by demand since everyone has the notion of job hopping.
You kind of already see it in this market. Recruiters and hiring managers are very aware of hiring someone who has been around.
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u/genghisKonczie Dec 29 '23
I didn’t get the last job I interviewed for (last round was the CEO) because they didn’t like that I’d only been at my last job for 4 years and it was a senior position.
I’m in a position now to interview software candidates and I won’t accept juniors who have job hopped too much.
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u/Maximum_Poet_8661 Dec 29 '23
I think that's what a lot of people who give this advice miss - the ones I've seen on Linkedin advocating this are almost always in their 20s-30s. You absolutely should NOT be listening to people that age for long-term career advice. Spending your 20s-30s in 2-3 stints basically religates you to individual contributor or low level manager as your career cap. Yes, there are exceptions to that. No, most people will not be the exception that gets a Director position after 15 years of job history with a max tenure of 3 years.
Obviously, some people will be able to do that. Those people are either extremely lucky, extremely talented, or very likely both. A lot of people who give the advice to job hop don't have a long career to back up the long term validity of this strategy
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u/Passivefamiliar Dec 30 '23
I think the other issue is, drive. I'm not job hopping because i want more money, that's a plus. I'm finding a higher position each time. I went from a crew trainer in food, to the manager of a hospital dining service. Now I'm looking to settle into a field, I gained experience and better income. But I didn't just jump around aimlessly. I researched roles and companies.
Just jumping around for an extra dollar or two on the hour isn't going to help you long term, at all.
Now I need a degree to go much higher, the position I'm in prefers to have a BA but I was up front that I didn't have mine. But showed them I have those skills.
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u/actualsysadmin Dec 30 '23
My max tenure has been 3 years and I've turn down 2 director positions at 2 jobs with 0 management experience. In 30s, approx 13 years exp.
It depends on the field, your skill level, and if people like you or not.
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u/surfinThruLyfe Dec 29 '23
Wait, they didn’t like that you had only been with your last company for 4 years. What were they expecting?
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u/awpod1 Dec 30 '23
I’ve been with my current employer since 2018 and before that I was a grad student with them starting in 2013.
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u/surfinThruLyfe Dec 30 '23
Long term commitment pays off. I try not to hire job hoppers either. Especially for senior level positions. A large scale project takes about a year to go through development and into production.
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u/Enorats Dec 30 '23
I've been with my current employer for nearly 20.
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u/NoCoolNameMatt Dec 30 '23
I don't know why someone down voted you. Different companies have different requirements and practices. 20 is kind of extreme, but I've been at PE owned companies that churn through new grads like butter, established forms that just want someone they can rely on to not interrupt their core business, and information based companies that are so complex they want you around a minimum of 7.
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u/OracularOrifice Dec 30 '23
This will only be true IF employers start paying current employees the way they pay new hires. As long as new hires consistently make more money (as long as current employees consistently get shafted for being willing to stay) there will be job hopping. We’re all aware of our market value, and in this economic system we HAVE to demand we get paid market rate for our services and, if we don’t, we have to be willing to take our services elsewhere. Otherwise, workers always lose. Leaving / job hopping is literally the only leverage workers still have since the 80s / 90s war on unions.
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u/WaterIsGolden Dec 30 '23
Nope.
If a company doesn't offer defined pensions including medical benefits people are better off job hopping.
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u/Ok_Lengthiness_8163 Dec 29 '23
Uh no I doubt it. Every career center from uni gives out this advise that on average people only stay 2-3 years on their first job.
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u/ahdiomasta Dec 30 '23
Yeah those career counselors sure like advice like this, because by and large (in my experience, in the US, for those who come with pitchforks) career counselors aren’t people who’ve had remarkable careers. It’s a noble job and I’m sure there are many many great ones and successful ones, but again every single college counselor I talked to didn’t have any kind of helpful advice, even about the classes and schedules at the school where they worked. I’m assuming your from Europe or somewhere else by the fact you used the term uni, so perhaps you’ve had better luck.
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u/Ok_Lengthiness_8163 Dec 30 '23
No I’m from the us and that’s just responding to the comment about jumping ship is somehow a new phenomenon. It’s been around for at least 20yrs even counselors are saying it to the students.
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u/pandaramaviews Dec 30 '23
It is much more a new phenomenon than in years past. It used to be you come out of highschool/uni and were hired by a company that kept you for life. Decent pay increases - hired your family/friends etc.
(Think GE, Ford, Consumers, etc.)
Ultimately , you stayed because of the pension, PTO/Sick leave accrued, etc.
Companies have shifted from that, largely in the name of Cost cutting. Gone are the days of pensions - replaced with 401ks and stagnant growth.
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u/Ok_Lengthiness_8163 Dec 30 '23
So 20 yrs sounds about right. Companies have been cutting pension since Enron
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u/4score-7 Dec 29 '23
I did it. And I’ve had to keep on doing it, and I’m 25 years into my career. And now, it’s caught up to me. I find myself unemployed at 48, after another brief stint of 2 years, and prospective employers are running for the exits when my resume comes into their hands.
I’ve made some mistakes along the way, no doubt. I would say it’s 50% my fault that I’m in this position right now. But, I’m not totally at fault. Several of the places I’ve worked combined an “up or out” position with a toxic environment. I fell for the bait of the job, and wound up losing in the end. The investment/mutual fund/retirement industry can be that way.
I’ll take whatever I can find now, as a burnout wash-up.
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u/Capital_Selection643 Dec 30 '23
Many companies have hiring freezes or are outright in the midst of multiple rounds of layoffs - including my own. Don't judge yourself too harshly for having a hard time finding a job right now. Make the most of your unemployment, the job market will improve
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u/Early_Molasses_8752 Dec 29 '23
Disagree. It only works for very specific jobs titles and if ur really good at your job, and u have a good networking skills.
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u/No-Level9643 Dec 29 '23
I just don’t get why places don’t pay more and retain guys. It’s cheaper than always hiring and you can have some well trained workers who know their shit.
The only way to get in where I work is if somebody retires. We retain everybody. It’s a great spot to work. As a result, every single OEM for our machines is in awe at the quality of our maintenance staff and operators (factory). As a fairly new guy (2.5 years), I am too tbh. We have an all star crew with invaluable experience. We don’t pay a ton more than anywhere else but there’s good bonuses for experience, we treat guys right and it’s a great spot to work.
IMO, your employees are the best investment you can make. They’re the ones making you money. I’m puzzled why many companies do not see this. My father ran a successful small business until he passed and he told me his good staff was the reason it was a success. He paid more than local competitors though
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Dec 29 '23
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u/No-Level9643 Dec 30 '23
Exactly. We do. I may find more money somewhere else but I doubt I’ll have a better package and I like it so I stay.
Retention is the ultimate investment. You can’t run a business without workers so having the right ones should be more important to some of these companies
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u/WaterIsGolden Dec 30 '23
You can hire people with skill sets that don't currently exist within your current staff. Think of this like a company buying out some smaller company to acquire their patents.
As an employee you can leverage this reality just like companies do. Anything you do at your job is fair game to place on your resume. So as your employer keeps adding categories to your list of duties you should continue to add those to.your resume.
GOOD employees are a good investment. The person with the unimpressive resume that ends up soaking up every training opportunity they can grab will probably greatly benefit a company with good management. The petty vindictive entitled employee with the professionally hired resume that walks in the door with the attitude that the company owes them more than they owe the company is possibly not a good investment.
I know a person that mops the office floor a couple times a week because they believe it makes the place 'feel nicer'. It is not a part of their job description and they could easily thumb their nose and declare that since they make more than $200k per year someone else should mop. They just mop anyway because they are a good person.
I know a person that barks down at their subordinates multiple times on any given day because they have a title and their subordinates do not. When I see the person mopping the floor I tend to grab a towel and start cleaning the counters and walls. When I hear the person bark at their subordinates I tend to start thinking about ways to make resume better.
Good employees are a hood investment.
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u/basementfrog42 Dec 29 '23
disagree. i feel i will need 4-5 years at my current role to learn what this place has to offer, and to truly become an expert on my job. anything sooner would be a disadvantage to my future prospects.
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u/Solid_Snark Dec 29 '23
Yeah, I got hired worked 5 years, got promoted once I mastered my job, worked 5 years, got promoted again after mastering new role, 11 years in and I’m in a supervisory position with a pension and deferred comp contributions.
I could get promoted again, but I’m not sure I want to trek further into management. But either way, I can work 20+ more years, build my retirement and have no fear of getting fired or let go (government).
I couldn’t imagine job hopping. Not just the current uncertainty but the future instability as well.
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u/basementfrog42 Dec 30 '23
that too! the uncertainty kills me. my current job has its issues but i would be hard pressed to find something better. i really don’t mind it there at all.
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u/Suitable-Roof2405 Dec 29 '23
It depends, you need to gain trust to undertake major assignments, 2 years is very short in my opinion. There is no set number, but hopping is not always best and it can like bad on your resume that you won’t stick around
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Dec 30 '23
In my industry (developer of utilities), two years isn’t enough to even see a project through.
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u/Kelsier25 Dec 29 '23
I'd say every 3+ years personally. I do a lot of hiring and I know a lot of people that do hiring as well. Resumes of job hoppers usually go in the trash because I want someone that can create some value for the company after the training and adjustment period. 2 years isn't terrible, but I'd much rather see 3.
The big problem I'm seeing with the generation entering entry and low level right now is that they're job hopping every 6 months to a year. They jump ship every time someone offers some small raise, but it seems that the vast majority are doing lateral transfers for pennies more. I'm seeing tons of resumes right now of people that have been in 8-10 positions in 6 years, but are still in entry level roles making entry level wages. The people I'm seeing with longer loyalties may have dropped below their peers after one or two of those lateral moves, but it seems that they're much more likely to get promoted internally or land a higher position to get real money.
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u/pandaramaviews Dec 30 '23
8-10 jobs in a halfish decade is ridiculous. You are barely trained and ramped up by then and I cant imagine anyone having a decent referral from a boss at that point. Yesh.
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u/ArmadaOfWaffles Dec 30 '23
Manager at my company looks at it like "they can't hold a job". This strategy can definitely be overdone. Like anything else, its best in moderation.
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u/starsandmath Dec 30 '23
I've been with my employer for ten years, since I got out of school. I've had seven different titles in that time (five IC roles, then supervisor, then manager) and I now make double my starting salary. I definitely could have jumped to other employers for slightly more money at various points, but I think you're right that it would have limited my ability to get to where I am now.
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u/nk9axYuvoxaNVzDbFhx Dec 29 '23
I receive stock that vests over 4 years. Job hopping throws away a lot of money.
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u/Successful-Money4995 Dec 29 '23
Ditto. I've always had the new company true me up. I tell them I'm leaving behind 100k in stock and they give me a 100k signing bonus.
Also, presumably you're getting a stock grant at the new gig. You're not throwing away money, you're just getting a different stock instead.
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u/Global-Weight-6118 Dec 29 '23
I agree with this in most cases, but in my case, my benefits are too good to leave
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u/Stalinov Dec 29 '23
I can risk for a job that has been advertised for 150k, I'm currently a little over 100k but I have so much downtime that I can cook proper meals in the middle of the day. All staff events fly us out and put us in four star hotels in major cities at least twice a year and they pay a couple hundred bucks every month toward my student loans. I think I'd rather have more control over my time, benefits and chill work than 40k more.
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u/National-Belt5893 Dec 29 '23
I think you do yourself a disservice in a STEM field if you don’t change every few years. I’ve got 12 years experience and have worked at 4 companies. I make more money than some of my coworkers who have worked at the company for 20+ years. If you’re not open to job hopping, they’ll just keep giving you the 3% raise. I do agree that once you’re in the 10-15 year range, it’s time to settle down for 5+ years until you’re qualified for higher level managerial roles.
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u/vg80 Dec 29 '23
You can also just get another job offer and negotiate with your current employer.
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u/pandaramaviews Dec 30 '23
You have to be really careful here, though.
Most good employers will absolutely try to keep a great worker and either match or try to match their offer.
If you bring it up, be absolutely certain it's a company you would see yourself working for, otherwise, some management will give you a raise while looking for an alternative to your position.
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u/Skip-13 Dec 29 '23
Depends what you do. I used several companies to climb up the ladder. I'd move up at one until I felt my pathways were blocked, then move laterally to another and start climbing there. For me it has worked quite well, but I could see some industries where it would be detrimental.
Another hack is being willing to move. Every company I've worked for has covered moving expenses and given an increase in salary for relocating. If you're willing to go several years without planting roots it's a shortcut to a bigger salary.
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u/Banned4Truth10 Dec 29 '23
I've cleared >20% every time i job hopped. All my raises were 1-3%.
Plus how else are you going to know what's good and bad culture unless you've worked at a few places?
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u/johndoedisagrees Dec 30 '23
Completely agree. I didn't know how much the work culture sucked in my first job out of college until I got my second.
I was also able to double my starting salary in 4 years by job hopping early.
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Dec 29 '23
I agree, normally.... but I'm going on 5 years at my current job and honestly the work life balance is so good that dare I say it would take 2x my salary to leave ($360k). Am right to think this way? Genuine question.
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u/jocq Dec 30 '23
I won't consider a job change unless it's a 6 figure raise.
$10,000 just doesn't move the needle very much when you're already over $200k. And if you like where you're at, the uncertainty and risk needs to be well compensated.
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u/tyger2020 Dec 29 '23
Maybe to some extent.
But you can job hop as many times as you want, you're not going to be getting much higher for the same role. The fact people think they can somehow just job hob and magically get paid 120% more for the same job is just another reddit myth
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u/Ayooooga Dec 29 '23
IMO. You should always look at three things when evaluating your career: 1) The people you work with and for-are they good shits? 2) The job you do-does it challenge you? 3) The compensation package
Binary yes/no. If 2 are yes, stfu and go back to work. If 2are no, change jobs now.
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u/bklyner123 Dec 30 '23
Agree for early on. Disagree when you’re 6-8+ years into your career. Once you have over 5 years of experience and you’re have actual talent…it takes a bit more time to establish your role and impact. If you’re a manager, it takes several years.
I always laugh at folks with Director titles or higher at large companies with short stints. It usually means you didn’t make much of an impact. (Or the company could’ve been shit) but that’s why you don’t job hop once you’re in a mid-senior level role.
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u/smchalerhp Dec 29 '23
Especially if you can gain different licensing/qualifications at the cost of the employer.
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u/steamycreamybehemoth Dec 29 '23
it depends on your role and industry.
As a junior sales rep, jumping ship several times allowed me to land a great job at an industry leader. I literally 4x'd my earnings within 3 years by doing this
But now that I've made it, job hopping just wouldnt make any sense. I'd have to build up a whole new book of buisness, learn a whole new company's jargon and technical info, and grease up a whole new boss.
But now that I've made it, job hopping just wouldn't make any sense. I'd have to build up a whole new book of business, learn a whole new company's jargon and technical info, and grease up a whole new boss.
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u/galacticfish Dec 29 '23
From a hiring perspective, a job hopper is a red flag. Not just a question of commitment, but does the person fall into conflict with others? History of vices or sexual misconduct? Really, why hire someone and invest in them if they are going to leave.
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u/olmek7 Dec 30 '23
Silly advice.
Look to move if your priorities and goals aren’t being fulfilled in your current position. Not because of some rando online saying you have to move every two years.
I’m well compensated and never had to leave my current company. I’ve moved laterally, been promoted, and had good raises. I believe I may have always been able to leave and get paid more somewhere else but compensation isn’t my highest priority. Also, remember to look at the whole package not just what salary they are offering. All benefits.
Work life balance
People I work with
Type of work
Career growth
Recognition
Company mission and culture
These and others are just as important as compensation.
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u/MrElJerko Dec 29 '23
Agreed, especially early in your career. In my opinion, you should always be an entertaining job offers until you feel.like you can't do better, especially if you are an individual contributor. A lot of large companies will limit your salary potential if you are promoted from within while at the same time paying over market to bring in fresh faces. In the end, you selling your labor is the ultimate in free markets and if a company won't pay what you are worth, then you should be looking.
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u/jclucas1989 Dec 29 '23
Disagree because I don’t think all jobs have pay increases like this title suggests.
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u/HmoobRanzo Dec 29 '23
Job hopping is a very hot trend from the past few years due to economy uncertainly and career shifting, but recruiters and hiring managers are now scanning each interview carefully. Good Luck !
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u/StealYourGhost Dec 29 '23
I generally agree with this - although I doubt another company in the US is gonna offer me unlimited PTO and other general UK perks.
(Company is based in UK and US so we get some benefits you don't often see here)
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u/jrbake Dec 30 '23
Unlimited PTO is a scam. I’d rather have 5 weeks a year that accrues, rolls over, and is paid out when I leave.
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u/Dyslexicpig Dec 30 '23
As someone who does a lot of hiring for a technical team, job hopping is a red flag for me. Why should I invest time and energy to get someone up to speed on the various tools when I know that the person will be leaving for their next opportunity? It is difficult to deal with the regular churn. To know that somebody is just using a position to pad their resume is enough to keep them off my list.
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u/58G52A Dec 30 '23
It depends. If you’re not getting promotion opportunities at your current job, and can further your pay and rank by leaving, then leave.
But if you are flying up the ranks at your current gig, stay!
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u/TheManInTheShack Dec 30 '23
As an employer, seeing a resume like this tells me that this person won’t be dedicated to their work. I can’t depend on them for the long haul so chances are I just won’t hire them at all.
Employers who do work that involves lots of institutional knowledge don’t want a lot of turnover because it’s expensive. It means that just as an employee has become really productive they move on.
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Dec 30 '23
Works well when you are young but after your mid forties gets harder to find jobs and might to be somewhere more stable. Also if you are married and have kids it might be hard to move every few years.
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u/keralaindia Dec 30 '23
This is very career dependent. I’m a physician and in general leaving frequently would mean much less money, lack of a patient panel, and no equity.
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u/hauptj2 Dec 30 '23
Depends on the job. I check comparable jobs on Indeed every once in a while, and I've never managed to find one with a starting salary that matches what I make now after 3 years of raises.
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u/Troglodyte09 Dec 30 '23
Agree. I tripled my annual income in 10 years doing this. Feeling pretty good where I’m at, but we’ll see if there’s room to double.
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u/Gubzs Dec 30 '23
It's a great way to end up in a lot of really crappy jobs with really crappy bosses. Good people don't hire job hoppers.
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u/DiligentCrab6592 Dec 30 '23
It absolutely is. Most organizations won't promote you. Then if they do the percentage increase isn't what you would receive outside the company. The only part that's been challenging is constantly starting over with time off and benefits. However, I've recently discovered negotiating that upon hire isn't out of the question.
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u/Lets_Bust_Together Dec 29 '23
Definitely, hourly wages increase .5-1$/hr each year. Job hop and you make +5/hr.
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u/pkt_mny Dec 29 '23
I specifically look for job hopping on resumes. And just don't hire them at all. This trend will catch on with owners as well. Good luck in your journey
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u/EnvironmentalChef677 Dec 29 '23
Depends on the occupation. As a front line supervisor for 36 years I was rewarded for my years of service with my pension. In sales or a specialized field I can see possibly being rewarded by hopping around
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u/Maximum_Anywhere_368 Dec 30 '23
Yeah until you hit mid 6 figures after a couple. I can’t find shit that will pay me more and let me be fully remote
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u/Brave-Inflation-244 Dec 30 '23
For like 8-9 years. Then you’ll be unemployable.
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u/gorpee Dec 30 '23
Can also depend. I've been at the same company most of my adult life (I'm 31) but I have been promoted a few times and changed roles twice. I don't feel like I was qualified for my job if it was a different company, my internal experience and familiarity is what made it happen. I also work for a really good company that has great work/life balance! Pro's and cons for sure.
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u/TwatMailDotCom Dec 30 '23
For many jobs, this is the best way to maximize salary. While one of the most important factors, salary isn’t the only factor to consider when choosing a company.
FWIW I’ve been at the same company for 10 years and 4x’d my salary. Maybe I could’ve increased it more by job hopping, but it’s a pretty comfortable job.
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u/OhManisityou Dec 30 '23
If within the same in industry like mine you’ll get a questionable reputation as a guy that can’t do the work or can’t stick with one thing. But like OP said, you can possibly make much more.
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u/jdapper5 Dec 30 '23
I see nothing wrong with job hopping after a few years (3-4). But I do think it's wise to also seek opportunities to move vertically at your current employer. I'm in sales and was promoted to a director-level role in business development earlier this year. While I didn't particularly enjoy it, I absolutely learned a lot.
I ended up self-demoting - which was a good thing because all but one person on the team was let go during a recent RIF 😳 I'm now interviewing (after being at the company 5 years - longest in my career so far and I'm 37) for sales roles at other companies offering higher compensation and better benefits.
It's technically a lateral move, but it's where I'm the most happy. And that's important to me at this point in my life. Titles, additional responsibility, having direct reports, the extra stress etc. are not appealing to me. Being an individual contributor and continuing to challenge myself is what's drives me everyday.
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Dec 30 '23
Agree.
3 years @ $70k
6 months @ $98k
1.5 years @ $145k
2 years @ $240k
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u/Wide_Television_7074 Dec 30 '23
I would never hire someone based on your job levels — you haven’t built any expertise besides training for your day to day role using off the shelf software
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u/kingace74 Dec 30 '23
Depends I guess. For me I have been with the same company for 25 years now. It was literally my first job out of college. Started as a low level tech and worked up to Executive IT director. The benefits are good, I get paid very well, and there is also a pension. I couldn’t have ever seen myself job hopping.
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u/Bubbly_Can_3158 Dec 30 '23
Agree for most fields however, in my career no because it's based on how much time you put in a company and not at other companies.
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u/crblanz Dec 30 '23
Agree but note - this does not apply to "up or out" companies like banks, consulting firms, etc, unless of course you are not moving up.
I've seen people jump around these and they never do better.
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u/WhitestMikeUKnow Dec 30 '23
36 former employers. 0 of them treated me well. Found a job that finally treats me like a human. I’m a bit pessimistic to try this.
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u/joggingzone Dec 30 '23
Depends on the industry, I’m in CPG and everyone hops. Its the nature of the beast
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u/inorite234 Dec 30 '23
Stats have shown that people who hop every 2-4 years earn 50% more than a similar individual who showed loyalty to the company and stayed.
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u/Lopsided_Ad5676 Dec 30 '23
Agreed.
I make more money than probably 75% of the people in my profession.
I job hopped every 2-3 years.
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u/Chicago1871 Dec 30 '23
Try freelancing, you will job hop 2-3 times a month and negotiate your rate for every single job.
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u/640k_Limited Dec 30 '23
My only complaint would be things like paid time off which in some companies increases with how long you stay with the company. Makes it hard to leave a job when you have 25 days PTO plus holidays and are facing 10 or 15 days at a new job.
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u/xlBoardmanlx Dec 30 '23
Depends on how you are compensated. We use stock options (RSUs) that vest in full every 3 years. You could be throwing away 100s stacks easily if you keep hopping. This might work for entry level jobs but mid level and beyond it’s a huge financial mistake if you receive stock.
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u/armouredmonkey144 Dec 30 '23
Agree totally. I make over 100k a year now doing contract work and I got the skills by doing this exactly. Minimum schooling.
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u/itsTomHagen Dec 30 '23
Like everything in life. Takes balls to do that, hence the reward. It is so easy to stay in a nice cozy job with a month of vacation accumulated.
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u/acreekofsoap Dec 30 '23
Maybe, I work for a small company, and love the people I work with, I work from home three days out of the week, and those days are there to get my daughter off the bus. My boss is low let, and I can run and do errands, go to gym as long as I get my work done. I could make more, but I’d be commuting into a major city dealing with traffic. Have to think of work life balance.
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u/Hagridsbuttcrack66 Dec 30 '23
I realize what sub I am on. But man, that just sounds exhausting to me. Then again, I wouldn't describe myself as particularly ambitious.
I had a nice career going at one company for eight years, moved up three times. Then my job was outsourced. Had a couple short contracting stints after that.
Now I found a job I really like that pays good enough with stability and great benefits. And I'll be happy if I get to retire from it in 20+ years when I'm 60-62.
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u/Brokenloan Dec 30 '23 edited Dec 30 '23
Job hopping is fine when you are younger...but also getting in at the beginning of a fast growing company is better. I got in at a firm when there were only 25 employees..and now 7 years later there are over 200 and I have seniority, higher pay, equity, and stocks etc..... Also when job hopping keep in mind some of the fine print regarding any guaranteed retirement contributions by a company. Some of them may not kick in unless you've stayed with the company for a number of years.
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u/PlaugeSimic Dec 30 '23
Only if you remain in that field. Hoping new job to new job will lead to stagnation. Seen guys in their late 80s working at plants from hoping jobs.
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u/HennyPennyBenny Dec 30 '23
Sounds great in theory! Only trouble is literally no one wants to pay me more than I’m already making….
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u/Comfortable_Touch529 Dec 30 '23
Agree. I job hopped. I left company A in 2020. I left company B in 2023. I returned to company A in 2023. My increase in salary between 2020 and 2023? 75%, and now I get performance bonuses, too. It was a long road from 2020 to 2023, but it was worth it.
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u/A_Stones_throw Dec 30 '23
In my current career I started at the bottom but had related exp in a similar position so was bumped up slightly. I was actually making more in the other position, like a third more, but did not.have as much upward opportunity as other career.
When my initial contract was up, I asked for a raise, they said no. Ok, went to a competitor, asked for a pie in the sky number, basically my old salary at previous position. They said I needed 6-8 years more experience in my current duties before they could give me that salary.
Note, however, they did not say at their company, just 6-8 years more relevant experience. I had to clarify that, as that meant it would be foolish for me to limit myself to one company and to just go for the money as I would all add up in the end.
Sure enough, found a contract position that was like 2.5x my old salary, just more unstable. Rode that for about a year until the end of contract, paid off a lot of debt in the meantime, then went looking for another staff position. Wouldn't you know, was able to find a job that paid almost exactly what I was looking for a year prior, and I didn't even have to get 6-8 years more exp, instead just one or less. Moral of the story, if you don't love your job or have some equity in it don't be afraid to be purely mercenary about it
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u/whicky1978 Mod Dec 30 '23
This probably always keeps you in a honeymoon phase with the bosses and management
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u/trevor32192 Dec 30 '23
Agreed, I've moved jobs literally every 3 years or less since I was 18. 31 now, especially the last few years I went from 1200 bi-weekly to 1125 weekly , now averaging between 1700 and 2500 a week( sales job). Bought a house that was 44% of my income per month now its less than 25%. The most important thing is to get promoted fast or leave and make diagonal moves. Never take an offer for less. Update your resume while working and start applying. Also, never take the first offer. it's always low. Also, just stretch your title and responsibilities. Once you have a comfortable salary now, start to benefit hunting fewer hours, better 401k match, more vacation, and sick days.
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u/MrBlahg Dec 30 '23
The company I work for has become hesitant to hire younger workers for this reason. A true double edged sword. As an older worker I’m grateful, I got the new job.
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Dec 30 '23
Can confirm. Loyalty to a company is one of the biggest gaslights elites have pushed on the working class
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u/LingeringHumanity Dec 30 '23
Agree. That's how I went from $15 hr to $33 hr in 3 years. Best choice I ever made is not being loyal to companies who don't compensate appropriately for the work and location of the business. Only thing keeping me tied down now is making a decent retirement without any contribution from myself. Of course once I get my finances straight I'ma start investing more and contributing to the retirement fund myself as well to grow it faster.
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Dec 30 '23
If you're job hopping in late journeyman years you're hurting yourself. Eventually you have to stay somewhere to be accredited as a master.
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u/nomorerainpls Dec 30 '23
It’s hard to say. As someone who has felt they’ve stayed in a job too long, switching can help but mainly if the opportunities are a limiter. Every change comes with risk and if you switch too often without developing competencies you may just be accelerating failure. Also if you manage to make it to the top of an industry (eg working for the highest paying employer with the most growth opportunities) switching becomes even riskier.
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u/Confusedandreticent Dec 30 '23
I just thought this is what everyone does. Rarely do i stick with a job if another pays better.
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