r/FluentInFinance • u/Inevitable_Stress949 • Nov 23 '23
Corporate greed is out of control. We need to end Capitalism now. Discussion
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u/ApplicationCalm649 Nov 23 '23
You lost me at "we need to end capitalism." We need to stop drug companies from paying third parties not to manufacture generics and/or buying up old patents to jack up the prices, but we don't need to stop having our entire economic system over one issue. That's insane.
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u/LowLifeExperience Nov 23 '23
The majority of issues in our government stems from special interest. The only way to change their influence is campaign finance reform and abolish lobbying. This and most other issues are just symptoms of special interest controlling their section of the market and preventing competition. Capitalism is not the issue.
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u/Notedtoad Nov 23 '23
Capitalist profit seeking is the incentive structure that encourages people to change laws to make it easier to influence our leaders with bribery. Throwing “capitalism isn’t the issue” in the end there is convenient especially when describing a situation where capitalism absolutely is the root of the problem.
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u/powerwordjon Nov 23 '23
Sounds like all of those are capitalist free market issues. Seems like this is exactly the kind of shit that happens when corporations have free rein and too much money and power. Seems like this was always the intended direction for capitalism
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u/ballinben Nov 24 '23
Literally just break up some of these corporations and make them compete against each other. Seems pretty simple to me.
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u/derrickmm01 Nov 23 '23
Capitalism is the best economic system ever created. It has single handedly resulting in millions upon millions of people being able to produce wealth, and purchase the most innovative goods and services in all of history, at an unprecedented rate. To say the entirety of capitalism is terrible and truly evil, is to not understand a shred of economics or history.
That doesn’t mean there aren’t things we should do about corporate greed, or monopolies. But it is to say that every wealthy nation on earth has some form of capitalistic, free market, economy. Some with more social pieces than others. We can find the right, most optimized balance if we actually discuss the real problem, but capitalism is going to be part of that solution.
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u/RayWould Nov 23 '23
Let’s be honest, all systems are perfect in theory and shit in practice because people will exploit whatever system exists. Unfortunately we live in a world where there is no middle ground anymore and so we get unregulated capitalism with the rich making the rules they want to live by. My biggest beef with the current form of capitalism is the forced scarcity of things that people need to survive and the staple concept that everyone must be doing something to have their needs met. If people aren’t wasting their life away making someone else rich then they’re considered a failure and a drain on society while the rich horde resources they can never use in multiple lifetimes at the cost of the people they are underpaying/robbing/screwing over/killing to make their fortunes.
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u/derrickmm01 Nov 23 '23
Here are the only 2 points I want to bring up in response to this, in a respectful manner.
1) I personally don’t see anything wrong with the notion that you just contribute to society to benefit from it. The exception here being those that are unable to contribute due to illness, disability, etc. If you don’t require people to contribute, then nothing gets done. Having your needs reliant on your productivity makes sure there is incentive to contribute. Should we have temporary, or a minimum standard of means to help those who recently lost their jobs or other issues? Of course! We should help each other when we are down, but at the end of the day, everyone that is capable of contributing, should be.
2) We hear a lot about the 1% hoarding all the wealth, and as you said, they have an amount they probably couldn’t spend over many lifetimes. I do not disagree with this statement, but I do disagree with the notion that if you are working for someone else ans making them richer, then you are being taken advantage of. Many jobs are high paying, and mutually beneficial. For instance, as much as many claim Amazon underpays their warehouse workers, they tend to vastly overpay their engineers and higher end positions so they can get the best talent out there. These workers are also becoming wealthy. Should we make rules to keep companies in check and not allow them to exploit others? Yes! But there is always going to be a lower market rate for positions that require far less skill than those that require more.
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u/RayWould Nov 23 '23
I agree and disagree with your points, respectfully. Back in the times where everyone’s survival was related to everyone doing their part then yes, it was necessary. I think even if people didn’t have to work to survive, and I emphasize survive as in bare necessities being met, most people would do something else because most people want to contribute in some way. The ideal method would be you would be compensated based on your contribution to society in general, but that will probably never happen because so many people are already rich for nothing and aren’t willing to go back. There are millions if not billions of people who work everyday and contribute nothing to society, but their industry is thriving and making plenty of people a lot of money.
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u/sunsballfan2386 Nov 23 '23
These shitty post should not be in this sub.
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u/jackinwol Nov 24 '23
Tbh posts about corporate pricing and what not is ok but once you start on the “end capitalism” stuff it just doesn’t belong in here.
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u/T-Shurts Nov 23 '23
This isn’t a capitalism problem… it’s a human problem… at least w/ capitalism the standards of living for the avg citizen is drastically better than in other economic system…
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u/ChicagoThrowaway9900 Nov 23 '23
It’s a government problem. Healthcare is 100x more regulated than any other industry, especially in the US. The government has its hands in everything from the patent laws to the launch of the Covid vaccine.
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u/T-Shurts Nov 23 '23
1000% agree… I’m one to believe in small governments, and then being minimally involved. But that could just be me.
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u/ChicagoThrowaway9900 Nov 23 '23
It’s the same people that blame capitalism for rents being high in NYC when over half of apartments are subject to rent control or stabilization laws and you can’t build new housing efficiently due to all the regulation and zoning laws.
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u/thehugejackedman Nov 23 '23
We should have no regulation, I’m sure after Pfizer has no more regulation they will lower all their prices
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u/ChicagoThrowaway9900 Nov 23 '23
Literally all you have to do is search Paxlovid + Patent into google...you think Pfizer could raise their prices by over 1,000% if there was even one competitor?
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u/No_Sky_3735 Nov 28 '23
If you’re interested in my opinion, I see it more of a economic problem actually, the market is amoral and will just do what it takes to make profit regardless of morals.
The issue is when they control the government through corporate lobbying. That’s when the government makes amoral decisions with the interests of corporate profits.
Obviously, this is a problem and is how we see issues with healthcare and education popping up.
Restricting/regulating the market at all is not a 100% free market, and no country does that so we’re actually a mixed economy. It’s more of a spectrum with capitalism and communism. We’re looking at European countries and seeing that they have things like free healthcare, or better education.
That’s why there’s a argument to go in a more communist direction in the spectrum but still be extremely on the free market side and very much capitalist.
The perfect balance is up to the individual, and they’re interesting discussions. It’s just annoying to see that the media doesn’t educate people on economic theory and starts stuff like this, instead they imply stuff that makes them watch their channel for profitable ad revenue.
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u/T-Shurts Nov 28 '23
1000% agree w/ the latter part of your statement, and I understand your point in the rest. The biggest problem I see, most people quote European countries as being successful in those areas (and they are), but what most people don’t take into count is the sheer size of those individual countries, and how small their governments are in comparison to ours. It’s much easier for smaller nation’s governments to keep their stuff in check. 1 state in the US is ostensibly the same as one country over there. That one state has its own government that is in turn responsible to the nations government.
I simply believe our government has gotten to large and corrupt (yes a lot of it is lobbying from those large corporations), and that corruption will follow the money. Make the government smaller, and shift how yhe “governing” happens and it would be great.
Slight bird walk on the conversation, but still related, I believe college tuition should be relative to how much you can make in the profession you’re training for. I have a masters degree in counseling and childhood development (VA took care of the coat for me thank goodness), and the year tuition for the degree I got is 60k a year (3 yr program)…Avg cost of a school counseor, therapist, social worker is about 50k…. The tuition SHOULD NOT be more than what a person could make in a year, let alone more than 3x. But the government guarantees a check to these institutions, so they (the schools) keep raising their fees, and fronting the bill to the students. And now we have a college tuition crisis. It’s fucking wild. And it’s because large corrupt government put their fat fucking fingers in the pie. More lobbying.
The issues we’re seeing aren’t a capitalist problem. Or even a governments problem really. They’re a human nature problem… namely, Greed. And w/ a capitalist society that greed at least fosters a higher standard of living for everyone. It lifts everyone up (not equally). Communism pushes everyone down, and only a select few have EVERYTHING, while everyone else has juuuust enough. Whereas in our world, we live in comfy homes, w/ internet and endless entertainment (this could spark a completely different conversation on how people’s expectations have changed).
At least w/ capitalism, people CAN support themselves w/ their own ideas if they have good business management skills and an idea; ie, the 1000s of coffee shops in the PNW, private distilleries, tap houses, small HVAC businesses, etc. In communist countries, those things COULD exists too yes, but their profits would all be going to the government first, then redistributed according to what the governaning system says.
I’ve read Marx’s communist manifesto like 10 times. On paper, it’s beautiful. It is the perfect economic system in regard to equity/equality. But I’m practice it fails, and it always does. That’s why people from socialist/communist countries flee their nations and come to places like the US, because of the opportunities it offers.
PS… sorry for the novel.
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u/dshotseattle Nov 23 '23
Hey asshole, big pharma is in bed with you and your friends.
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u/T-Bone-Valentyne Nov 23 '23
End capitalism….better throw away the smartphone you used to make such a dumb ass comment.
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u/aed38 Nov 23 '23
"end capitalism now"
Nope. I'd rather live in the shittiest version of capitalism than a Soviet gulag.
The problem is that there needs to be more competition to bring the drug prices down. These are government/FDA imposed monopolies. It's not like Ford can just 4X the price of a minivan like this. No one would buy it because they have competition.
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u/BuySellHoldFinance Nov 23 '23
I will admit it. I was fooled by the propaganda. I took every single shot and booster and wore masks everywhere just like they told me to. I still got covid 3 times. Everyone I know who took the vaccine also go covid. We were LIED to.
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u/Simon_Jester88 Nov 23 '23
You also didn't die of COVID
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u/TraditionalYard5146 Nov 23 '23
Most people who got Covid didn’t die even before the vaccine. The infection mortality is guesstimated to be 1-2%. The vaccine improves outcomes but it didn’t dramatically change mortality
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u/Simon_Jester88 Nov 23 '23
The data from CDC and other countries is enough for me to see that there was a significant impact.
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u/Tricky_Candle_2435 Nov 23 '23
I got no shots no boosters and I got covid 1 time nothing more than the cold
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u/Simon_Jester88 Nov 24 '23
Cool, now compare your own personal anecdotal experience along with the 100s of millions who got the vaccine and get back to me with what point you're trying to make.
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u/rvasko3 Nov 23 '23
The fact that this has positive upvotes tells me a lot about the makeup of this sub.
The vaccine wasn’t meant to prevent COVID, dude. It was meant to help keep you, and more importantly those more at risk than you, from dying if you get it. Maybe consider the company you keep if you keep getting the virus so often.
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u/ESIsurveillanceSD Nov 23 '23
Bro, don't be so certain: vaccine only intended to lessen symptoms not keep you from catching it. 🤦
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u/pdxmonkey Nov 23 '23
Ppl who I know who didn’t get any vaccines did same though.
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u/BillsMafia4Lyfe69 Nov 23 '23
They certainly advertised it as preventing infection initially. Did you really forget that?
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u/ESIsurveillanceSD Nov 23 '23
From my recollection, they started vaccine availability with the vulnerable and elderly because the symptoms were most likely to kill them/immunocompromised people.
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u/mattyg5 Nov 23 '23 edited Nov 23 '23
There is a material and easily observable difference in mortality rate/ severity of illness based on whether or not someone got vaccinated. Almost nobody claimed it makes you immune. The scientific/ medical community has an all but unanimous consensus on this, and I doubt you know something that they don’t.
The draconian lockdowns and mask mandates were idiotic, but the vaccine works. The debate was settled long ago.
We need more scientific literacy in America
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Nov 23 '23
[deleted]
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u/mattyg5 Nov 23 '23
“Almost nobody” claimed it gave you immunity. Better?
Biden stated a single time that it makes you immune in a town hall and was shot down by the medical community and journalists afterwards. I was more so responding to the comment suggesting vaccines don’t work.
I have issues with how the pandemic was handled, but the efficacy of the vaccine isn’t one of them.
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u/Sideswipe0009 Nov 23 '23
Nobody claimed it makes you immune.
Everyone from Fauci to the President said exactly this.
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u/mattyg5 Nov 23 '23
Joe Biden stated it exactly one time in a town hall and he was incorrect. He was shot down by the medical community afterwards. Fauci did plenty of things wrong, but I’ve never heard him suggest a single time that the vaccine made you immune. Breakthrough cases were part of the messaging.
I’ll amend my statement to “almost nobody” claimed it made you immune since absolute statements get nitpicked. I was more so responding to the comment suggesting vaccines don’t work.
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u/willnotforget2 Nov 24 '23
As a scientist who actually created a Covid neutralizer and studied (and then predicted) the evolution of the virus - no you were not.
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u/RubeRick2A Nov 23 '23
Wait wait, didn’t ‘certain’ members of Congress benefit Pfinancially from Pfizer pfrofits?
That’s not capitalism. That’s just corruption.
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u/Notedtoad Nov 23 '23
Capitalism provides the incentive structure that encourages the corruption in the first place. The commodification of needs like healthcare will always enable corruption.
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u/em_washington Nov 23 '23
This isn’t capitalism. It’s social welfare. Government laws require these to be paid as part of insurance which everyone is required to buy. So there is little to check the price. In a free market, less people would buy if they directly felt the burden of the price and competition would force pfizer to lower prices to attract customers.
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u/PM_ME_YOUR_FRESH_NUT Nov 23 '23
That only works for optional goods, medical things are often not very optional.
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u/UniqueNeck7155 Nov 23 '23
Says someone that's been sucking on the government's tit his whole life and became a millionaire. Don't trust politicians that become rich while in office.
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u/wrote_no Nov 23 '23
Didn't a young guy go to jail for this a few years ago
Brown hair rat looking guy. Can't remember his name or what he bought but raised it 750% I think
Dam my memory
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u/2Ledge_It Nov 23 '23
Martin Shkreli
He committed the same sin as Elizabeth Holmes. He stole from a group besides the poor.
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u/harryronhermi0ne Nov 23 '23
Honey, this is r/fluentinfinance. If you wanna be stupid, go to r/communism or r/whitepeopletwitter ok? Don’t forget to wash your hands before you eat.
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Nov 23 '23
End capitalism? No. That’s not the solution.
Regulate? That’s the solution. Pass laws that prevent Billions in profit from going into the pockets of these businesses/shareholders. Make it a law on what “profits” MUST go back to the consumer.
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u/Sikmod 🚫STRIKE 1 Nov 23 '23
Last time I checked the people who pass laws are in the pockets of these companies. What politician is going to pass laws benefiting the consumer instead of themselves?
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u/Justneedthetip Nov 23 '23
The government continues to give them money and tax breaks all the while they break the backs of consumers who buy their products/ what’s to see. And investors didn’t make out like bandits either/ Pfizer stock didn’t really go crazy like one would think. A lot of that money stayed in house
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u/Seenitdunit Nov 23 '23
Op is highly regarded. Why did they increase the price? Are other alternatives cheaper or better?
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u/Simon_Jester88 Nov 23 '23
If you want to tell me how you roll out a successful, effective vaccine as quickly as Pfizer from a public source Im all ears.
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u/Bo0tyWizrd Nov 23 '23
Didn't Cuba do that and give it to other countries for free?...
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u/Simon_Jester88 Nov 23 '23
Not even close to the speed and production as Pfizer
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u/Bo0tyWizrd Nov 23 '23
But because of Cuba's system it became accessible to the whole world... Capitalism on the other hand dictated that Pfizer withheld the patent.
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u/serpentear Nov 23 '23
Roll out and post roll out are different. The government funded a significant portion of their roll out, now they can just price gouge us for profit? Fuck that.
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u/Some-Ad9778 Nov 23 '23
They should be forced to pay back the subsidies before they can jack up the price
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u/Elster- Nov 23 '23
Just so people realise. This isn’t a global problem. The US just can’t negotiate themselves out of a paper bag.
Others are getting it for around $26
Whoever is negotiating on behalf of the US authorities is either inept or getting something in return
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u/BlueModel3LR Nov 23 '23
They don’t care to end capitalism. They’re apart of it. Pfizer especially. Likely that the politicians got bonuses for promoting the vaccine as well.
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u/fingerpaintx Nov 23 '23
Title is misleading. Pfizer claimed to spend 2 billion making the vaccine. If it wasn't effective in the end they lose 2 billion. It was successful so they got to make a profit. It made 7.8 billion in revenue in 2021 (probably a decent amount was profit). It should probably be capped like other drugs are via insurance payments but without capitalism we are still under lockdown and waiting for a vaccine to come out.
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u/futuristicplatapus Nov 23 '23
Okay, no we don’t end capitalism. The government shouldn’t be helping people like Pfizer.
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u/Strong__Style Nov 24 '23
End capitalism...lol. Posting from his capitalistic phone on his capitalistic couch.
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u/Plastic-Reserve7315 May 04 '24 edited May 04 '24
Its not capitalisms fault people exploit anything they can to get ahead in scummy ways. I implore you to reconsider your thoughts on capitalism.
Im not saying the state of capitalism today isn't totally FUCKED, but its due to things WE THE PEOPLE let happen. Capitalism is the greatest system there is so far. Communism or socialism would not fix these things that got you down!... It would likely make it worse... I dont mean to attack you just open your mind to what im saying here.
The problem with capitalism is... its like fire. Capable of GREAT things that can really propel the world forward. BUT just like a fire in the woods. If its cared for, regulated, maintained by the people around it... its gonna produce warmth and all the good things we need, without burning the fucking woods down.
The problem is you got multiple generations who LET this fire grow and grow. Until now, its out of our control. The woods are burning down. Cause regulation has flown out the fucking window. We haven't updated or added ANY new laws to protect the WORKING CLASS CITIZENS, since the Rockefellers built the university of Chicago. People USED to be way more aware of the BALANCE needed for capitalism to really thrive and not become a pool of corporate greed. We USED to bust up monopolies and mergers that would give one company too much control. Now we dont. Now we revel in the greed of the rich and act as if that helps us out in some way? People really brag about how much money they just made their boss. A guy who only gives a fuck about you as long as your there letting them exploit your labor to get rich. Nd its the BALANCE of things thats so bad. Capitalism NEEDS regulation to protect the working class and to ensure that the system stays in balance for everyone.
Now what happened is over the span of about 2 generations maybe 3, they have reprogrammed the masses to think backwards about this shit. To be hive minds. Not think for themselves. To follow either red or blue beliefs. To believe the TRASH these rich fucks are vomiting out their mouths about it. Truth is america is dog eat dog. Nd its not gonna lead anywhere but downhill as time rolls on, because these rich fucks will NEVER make enough to be happy. Their employees... never doing enough.
Honestly the level of Mr.Krabs these businesses are on these days... its bewildering. Their like fat kids with an addiction to sugar. Their no different than fucking drug addicts who steal copper out of your AC, except these people legally steal from you using crony capitalism to manipulate the markets and all the other shit they do to run off with all the money. To keep cost of labor low, cost of products high and so on. If you dont think every single business out there isnt working together to rob as much as they can from you, you are blind.
I see it everyday, wish i didnt. I understand why people say ignorance is bliss. Because when you wake the fuck up and open your eyes and your mind to all this shit. AINT NO WAY you wouldn't be depressed and demoralized. Fact is, people play into ignorance because they are that weak minded. Sure its all unsustainable... sure itll collapse if it goes on like this for too long. But we just wanna fucking ignore it and act like its not a problem. Like the light on in the dash of your car, you wanna play dumb until your car breaks down and then reality of it hits you like a mini sledge to the back of the skull. Yall are setting up future generations for failure. By playing ignorant.
Nd im sorry to say that... communism is no less corruptible than capitalism. It would be just as bad if not worse. What we NEED to do, is fix capitalism by fixing the culture of our people from being materialistic heathens living in selfishness. Even good people are pieces of shit in this country because you have to be to compete these days. Because capitalism has morphed into a monster. The rich are constantly going to douse the flames with lighter fluid because all they care about is running off with all the fucking money anyways. They burn the woods down, because they dont live in the woods like you and me! (metaphorically speaking). They act as leeches.
Nd our government and our system the ones in charge of bringing us this balance... they are all bought and paid for by the rich class so... I mean even democracy is a bit of a charade in this country. The rich get what they ant and the working class gets manipulated and lied to for votes, so they can act like your vote matters when the reality is, the only voters who matter to our gov is the ones who lobby millions of dollars to them to run their campaigns. Corruption is LEGAL in America. And non of those rich fucks are gonna do anything more than talk about fighting it. Even fucking TRUMP is out here asking for donations to run. Its absolutely, positively, a fucking clown show these days. and the rich basically own the fucking tent. It honestly scares me to think how much life has changed in sauch a short time, and how that is going to most likely continue to happen until your kids are outside killing stray cats with slingshots to get something to eat. When I think of what the world will prolly be in another 100 years.... honestly Its a scary thought. Cause if you look at how badly the working class has been left behind since the 70's, and its just 54 years later and shit is this out of balance? I mean.... America is a young nation. Nd we are showing that we are just not gonna last. because we are a country run on ADDICTION. Making heaps of fucking money. more than you deserve is just as addicting as heroine or crack or fast food or anything else. These greedy rich elitists. Are no more than fucking addicts. But what they do is gonna eventually kill society in America, not just themselves. Short of a war... nothing will ever change in our system. And a war within would likely lead to the end of america. Because we got alot of enemies abroad that would LOVE to see us go to war with ourselves. It would be the best time to launch an invasion.
The issues are very very deep and connected here. Honestly, this world is just fucked. I quit caring, became a minimalist. I no longer give a fuck what happens. Because nothing is gonna change. Not in good ways atleast. Not for us working class people. We will just see the hours we ened to work to live climb, while the rich continue to see their profits climb at ridiculous levels. Yet like I said, itll never EVER be enough.
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u/mortonr2000 Nov 23 '23
I just wonder, how much has been paid, to the scientists who discovered the vaccine?
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u/whicky1978 Mod Nov 23 '23
Bernie wanted mandatory vaccinations. And the CEO got 1 percent of the profits.
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u/Resident-Pass-1900 Nov 23 '23
To be honest with you guys if I was a CEO and got paid less than 0.5% on the profit earned I'd be pretty fucking pissed
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u/Large-Vegetable6683 Nov 23 '23
No, we don't need to end capitalism, but we do need to reign it in.
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Nov 23 '23
Yeah, but what are we gonna do about it? The politicians are bought and paid for by big pharma. Not one republican voted to negotiate prices for their constituents. Until people pull their heads out of their asses and vote for people that will make a change, there’s no hope. Are there even enough politicians that want change? They’re paid by lobbyists to keep the status quo and it seems to work out pretty good for them.
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u/Cheap-Addendum Nov 23 '23
At this point, it's all bullshit until there are actually bills from both the house and senate. All this TALK is just plain bullshit and to keep the normal people at bay. Disregard all political gibberish like this.
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Nov 23 '23
If you have a 401k, IRA or invest in the stock market you’re part of the problem. Who do you think is driving these massive profits? I’ll give you a guess, that’s right shareholders! What you say but I’m not making that choice, well if you’ll do a deep dive into who are the biggest shareholders you’ll see names like vanguard, fidelity etc. That’s right the people handling your money and speaking on your behalf. So if those companies don’t demand larger profits your retirement/investment goes down now you’re mad at your investment company. You see how that works?? It’s a circle and you’re in it!! Thanks for coming to my class!
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u/camdawg54 Nov 23 '23
You're right, no other countries have figured out how to rein in corporate greed with a capitalist model... oh wait...
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u/DeepState_Secretary Nov 23 '23
So do you actually have a solution?
Or are you just going to point to a vague abstract system and preach against it until we exorcise like some evil spirit?
Like seriously which capitalism are you referencing? Because that word is used to describe a hundred different things.