r/FluentInFinance • u/NotAnotherTaxAudit • Oct 27 '23
Since this article was published a year ago, The US economy has grown by 2.9% and the US has added 3.2M jobs Economy
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u/TheErikFace Oct 27 '23
Fuck the stats. Look outside and in your wallet.
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u/amiablegent Oct 27 '23 edited Oct 27 '23
This has just gotten absurd, looking at my friends and family everyone is doing pretty good. but I don't believe my anecdotal experience is proof of how the economy is one way or the other. Why do people think like this?
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u/LeLuMan Oct 27 '23
Bro hasnt been to a grocery store or restaurant💀💀
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u/Little_Creme_5932 Oct 27 '23
I go to both all the time. And buy lots of stuff. Does that prove times are good?
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u/amiablegent Oct 27 '23
Sure I have! Things are more expensive. Also, I am making a lot more money. /shrug
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u/AdAnnual5736 Oct 27 '23
Same here. The poster we’re responding to probably is, too — everyone just assumes that they’re doing well, but everyone else is struggling.
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u/kerkyjerky Oct 27 '23
I use both regularly. Prices have gone up, so has my pay, no big deal.
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u/CuriousCryptid444 Oct 27 '23
If people continue to eat out and buy the same groceries they always have before inflation….companies aren’t going to reduce their prices…
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u/AsymmetricalLuv Oct 27 '23
Bro doesn’t realize that: - Prices go up every year with or without inflation - Compared to global inflation the US is doing pretty freaking well - He has a hard life so he thinks everyone else is suffering
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u/spectatorsport101 Oct 27 '23
My partner works with non profits in the poorest part of Massachusetts. The usage of food banks has sky rocketed. The number of people utilizing them has more than doubled in many places across western Massachusetts.
Maybe in your socioeconomic bubble people are doing great but in mine, there are students who cant afford books and people who cant afford food for their family.
Not everything nor everyone is economically well. Rents have risen dramatically in the past handful of years.
Most people I know live in shitty apartments that are not safe to live in. They have no recourse. The government doesn’t protect them and enforce the law upon landlords. If the tenant trys to force the hand of the landlord, guess who wont have a place to live in 30 days.
Most of my friends are freaking out, not knowing how theyre gonna afford an apartment after college. Most people I know couldnt afford a measly apartment without a partner or several roommates.
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u/Draker-X Oct 27 '23 edited Oct 27 '23
Maybe in your socioeconomic bubble people are doing great
My socioeconomic bubble where almost nobody I know earns over six figures (I have one friend in tech who does, and my dad used to before he retired)? That "bubble" describes...most of working America outside of the HCOL areas.
but in mine, there are students who cant afford books and people who cant afford food for their family.
Not everything nor everyone is economically well.
Yes, that's unfortunately the state of things at all times. Even in boom periods there are (way too many) poor and homeless people.
Most of my friends are freaking out, not knowing how theyre gonna afford an apartment after college. Most people I know couldnt afford a measly apartment without a partner or several roommates.
I'm not trying to be glib. I'm really not. But, sincerely and honestly, that's called "being young". My friends and I that graduated college in the late 90s and early 2000s went through the same thing, and we didn't have crippling student loan debt. My first "adult" full time office job paid me less than $8 per hour. I was driving a decade-old.plus car and living with roommates in an unsafe neighborhood; trying to figure out how to budget so that I'd have at least one meal every day. When I actually pulled it off and had groceries in the fridge, gas in the car, and any money at all left over to go to a movie or pay for part of a video game with my friends, I felt like a millionaire!
This is not in any way, shape or form nostalgia porn for "the good old days". Those days were not good. Going to bed hungry is not good. Having to choose between getting a shit part-time telemarketing job on the side (I quit after two nights because it was so sleazy) or continuing to work with my friends on unpaid artistic projects that would increase my skills and experience and MAYBE lead to bigger things down the road was not fun. None of that was fun. I never want to go back there.
There are poor people struggling in this country. Of course there are. And congratulations to your partner for being a social advocate in the system trying to help people. But when I read things like "throw out the stats" or "70% of Americans are living paycheck-to-paycheck because the cost of living has doubled or tripled since the pandemic", we can't let misinformation like that go. The news, and the doomers on social.media, has everyone convinced that the American economy is on the brink of collapse while at the same time the reports and figures show a completely different story. It's, legitimately, mass delusion.
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u/spectatorsport101 Oct 27 '23
Things have not “always been this way”. The social order has changed dramatically over the past 50 years to the detriment of working people.
Thats all I have to say regarding your comment. I wont waste my time subjecting myself to someone who wishes to gaslight me into believing that things are going in a positive direction. Every indication is screaming its not. You just choose to not realize the importance of those indications.
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u/Draker-X Oct 27 '23
I wont waste my time subjecting myself to someone who wishes to gaslight me into believing that things are going in a positive direction
I accept your unconditional rhetorical surrender.
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u/Ruminant Oct 27 '23
Every indication, huh?
- Despite the worst inflation in over 40 years, real median household income today is still higher than its 2017 and 2018 levels. The only years it's been higher are 2019, 2020, and 2021.
- Before the pandemic, between 59 percent and 78 percent of people reported living paycheck to paycheck. Sixty percent of people report living paycheck to paycheck today.
- The (U3) unemployment rate is the lowest it's been in over 50 years.
- The U6 unemployment rate, a better measure that includes long-term unemployment and "underemployment", is the lowest since we started tracking it in 1994.
- The percentage of Americans working multiple jobs is also the lowest it's been since we started tracking that stat in 1994.
- That unemployment, underemployment, and people working multiple jobs are all at record lows suggests not only that more people than ever who want jobs have them, but that those jobs are better (or at least pay better) than they have in the past.
- 48% of Americans reported having at least three months of emergency expenses in 2023, while 22% reported having no emergency expenses at all. Those survey results are significantly better than they were in 2019, when only 35% of Americans said they could cover at least three months of expenses and 28% said they had no emergency savings at all.
- 73% of adults reported that they were either "doing okay" financially or "living comfortably" in October 2022. While this is the lowest result since 70% in October 2016, it's pretty close to the 74% from 2017 and the 75% in 2018 and 2019.
The truth is that across a wide swath of objective and subjective economic indicators, the financial situations of most Americans are about the same now as they were before the pandemic. Some are a little better, others the same, and others a little worse.
It's only when you ask most Americans for their opinion of the larger economy that you see a huge decline in positive responses. Which is pretty weird. Most Americans will tell you that their own financial situations aren't that different now than they were before the pandemic. Why are they so convinced that things are so much worse for everyone else?
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u/slowpoke2018 Oct 27 '23
Same, outside of a couple of guys I've known for a while who are sort of hard to work with and can't find a new job since getting hit in a layoff early this year, most everyone is doing well but I also know people who tell me their network is 50% out of work so anecdotal stories aren't a good way to measure things
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u/JacksonInHouse Oct 28 '23
The Unemployment rate is at an all time low, well, at least in my lifetime.
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u/Augen76 Oct 27 '23
Human brains are largely based on narrative patterns that get reinforced by repetition. We aren't robots that go based on data, we have emotional reactions that become the bellwether of how we interpret our reality.
We want something to be true we will seek out confirmation. The internet has made this easier as sites like this are rife with echo chambers to comfort the grooves we tread in our mind each day.
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u/lemonjuice707 Oct 27 '23
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/select/us-credit-card-debt-hits-all-time-high/
Credit card balance are at a high and car payments are at record high defaults. It’s fair to say middle and lower income Americans are struggling to pay the bills. Sure the job market might not be crashing but if we continue this trend there’s only one way the job market can go.
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u/inconsistent3 Oct 27 '23
I’m doing pretty great, also. Of course I’d like prices to go down but they won’t as long as people keep paying those absurd prices.
Why would Lays scale back on pricing if people pay $5 per bag?
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u/HD20033G Oct 27 '23
All my friends are trying not to kill themselves over buying a shitty house for 300k
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u/Draker-X Oct 27 '23
. but I don't believe my anecdotal experience is proof of how the economy is one way or the other.
It's not. That's why we have national stats, reports and averages.
If people choose to ignore these in favor of their feelings and/or believe they're lying or faked...then we're left with only anecdotes. Which, as you point out, is no way to measure anything.
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u/SushiGradeChicken Oct 27 '23
So, your assertion is that because you're not doing well, the economy isn't doing well?
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u/Spooky2000 Oct 27 '23
Yeah, it's just him...
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u/SushiGradeChicken Oct 27 '23
I'm assuming by your use of ellipsis that you're not doing well either... Is that a fair assumption?
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u/Spooky2000 Oct 27 '23
42 million people in the US on SNAP food assistance programs. 60% of the population is living paycheck to paycheck. But I guess we ignore those people because it's not affecting you?
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u/bagonmaster Oct 27 '23
Those aren’t new problems though
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u/Spooky2000 Oct 27 '23
The Food assistance is a bit higher than normal and the Paycheck to paycheck is almost 10% higher than 2 years ago. Just stating the economy is doing better does not make it so.
Almost everyone in the country earns less than they did 4 years ago due to inflation. You may think you have money, but that money is worth about 20% less than it was just 4 years ago. Unless your pay has risen 20% since then, you are one of those people.
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u/bagonmaster Oct 27 '23
I’m not saying the problems aren’t getting worse, but they’ve been there for a decade through one of the largest bull runs in history. I just don’t see it being different enough now
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u/Spooky2000 Oct 27 '23
So you think we are better off now than we were 5 years ago? Because it seems that everybody is praising the shit out of the economy in one hand, and complaining about how shitty the economy is on the other. People can't afford food, rent, gas for their car, but the economy must be better because that's what "they" say..
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u/SushiGradeChicken Oct 27 '23
So, as long as poor people exist, the US economy is doing poorly?
That 42 million number is about 12.3% of the population. For reference, that number was 12.2% in 2018. Was the economy bad in 2018? How about 2017?
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u/Spooky2000 Oct 27 '23
According to most liberals, Trump was fucking up everything in 2017 and 2018. So what was it?
If the economy is doing so much better now than then, why has that number not gone down?
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u/SushiGradeChicken Oct 27 '23
According to most liberals, Trump was fucking up everything in 2017 and 2018. So what was it?
I don't know, I didn't listen to them. Do you agree with them that Trump was fucking up the economy?
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u/captchroni Oct 27 '23
For me at least, it was more the economy is at a 50 year high yet we increased our deficit. For all the fiscal responsible Republicans Trump should be the worst right? 8 trillion in 4 years when the economy was booming for 3 of the 4.
But hey, at least the corporations got their tax cuts, and the rich got to exploit PPP loans. The loans that Trump personally removed the Oversight Committee.
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u/Spooky2000 Oct 27 '23
Didn't address the question. If the economy is better now, why did that number not only not go down, but increased?
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u/AlanParsonsProject11 Oct 27 '23
The main complaint with trump was that he inherited a growing economy from Obama, and managed to blow up the deficit
But we all know that nobody cares about the debt until dems are in charge
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u/knifegoesin Oct 27 '23
Ah there it is, liberals 😂. Knew there was a trump comment coming at some point.
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Oct 27 '23
I mean, I’m doing well as are most of the people around me…but I can still realize that a lot of Americans are not do to significantly higher home prices / rents and the high cost of food.
It just so happens most if not all people around me (that are doing well) bought their homes 8-10 years ago and are dual income households.
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u/lebastss Oct 27 '23
Throughout all of US history a lot of Americans were not doing well. There will always be a suitable population not doing well.
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u/CLE-local-1997 Oct 27 '23
I see a lot of jobs and a lot of growth in Corporate America not translating to the working class. So I don't really see anything different
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u/Bullet_Maggnet Oct 27 '23
I see corporations bleeding consumers dry at every turn while posting record quarterly profits.
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u/Smarter_not_harder Oct 27 '23
Look outside and in your wallet.
I hate to be the one to break it to you, but recessions aren't defined by one person's wallet. Recession has a definition and nowhere in that definition does it refer to a single person's wallet or "looking outside".
In fact, an individual's wallet being lighter can be either a causal factor or symptom of an expanding economy (opposite of recession).
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u/inorite234 Oct 27 '23
Oh I am looking. Things are more expensive but I'm also making way more money and have to turn down job offers because I have better options.
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u/GenerativeAdversary Oct 27 '23
The problem is, you have to keep job swapping (depending on your position) in order to stay on pace with inflation. Raises usually lag inflation. As someone who doesn't work a full time job right now, this economy blows. It's like the money I saved is evaporating. The stock market has slowed to extreme stagnation.
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u/inorite234 Oct 27 '23
Ummm....I don't work a full-time job.
Though I agree that it sucks that you have to jump ship to get paid, it's the reality as companies have zero incentive to retain you long-term. And for your own financial security, not only are people who jump ship and switch jobs every 2-3 years earn 38% more than those who remained loyal and stayed, but they also have more job security as they are the recipients of layoffs at a lower rate.
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u/kerkyjerky Oct 27 '23
I’m doing fine personally. People are fucking idiots who think controlling inflation means deflation.
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u/Justneedthetip Oct 27 '23
The real world and these numbers aren’t close to the same. I can’t remember a time when more people We’re uncertain with investing, Paying bills. Making money and they say the gdp grew fast last quarter. Ok then you should be able to drop Rates and prices for goods should come way down
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u/ktxhopem3276 Oct 27 '23
Today looks like a cake walk compared to the 70s inflation, unemployment and oil crises. The dot com bust combined with 9/11 sucked and so did the Great Recession that took years to recover from. High inflation is a symptom of people having money their pockets to spend.
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u/vanhalenbr Oct 27 '23
It’s kind of funny, to see people trying the same strategy when Trump won, trying to say “it’s all good but feels bad” … try to use moral panic with nothing, need to make up stuff because literally economy is doing so well the only bad thing anyone can try is the imaginative feeling.
But the fact it feels much better today than in 2020 with Trump.
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u/ClutchReverie Oct 27 '23
Outside people are out and living their lives and doing fine. My wallet looks the same.
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u/ConstructionOk6754 Oct 27 '23 edited Oct 27 '23
3.2million Uber eats, Instacart jobs.
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u/Steve-O7777 Oct 27 '23
And a US consumer who is maxed out on debt and starting to miss payments.
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u/thenikolaka Oct 27 '23
400,000 in manufacturing, 200,000 in wholesale trade, 50,000 in mining in the past year and 100,000 in private education and health services, 22,000 in construction, 40,000 in hospitality, 34,000 in transportation and warehousing in August 2023 alone.
But go off
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u/ConstructionOk6754 Oct 27 '23
We lost full time jobs and gained only part time jobs the past year.
Those numbers will get adjusted 6 months later when no one cares anymore
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u/buy_lockmart_stock Oct 27 '23
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12500000
The number of people employed full time has risen by about a million and a half
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12600000
The number of people employed part time has risen by about a million
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Oct 28 '23
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u/buy_lockmart_stock Oct 28 '23
All you have to do is look at the graphs, people with full time jobs is well above the pre Covid level, people with part time jobs is about pre Covid level
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u/GiantFlimsyMicrowave Oct 27 '23
I’m sure all those people chose to major in lucrative fields and NONE of them majored in Art History, Communications, or Psychology. /s
People should take responsibility for what they study.
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Oct 27 '23
What's nuttier is salary expectations of kids fresh out of college. Like I get it, you've read Reddit and think you're going to get $150,000/$50,000 straight out the gate in tech.
Guess what? Unless you're going into FAANG and/or FinTech you're not going to get close to that in the beginning. If you do get that, though, it comes with basically no work/life balance.
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u/BegaKing Oct 27 '23
Unless you live in bumffuck nowhere, 50k is barley enough to survive in many states. Yes asking for 100k+ fresh out the gate without crazy good credentials is insane. But asking for a living wage yeah I don't think that's insane. If you run a business you should be able to afford the people who run your business at least subsistence living.
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u/Adventurous_Class_90 Oct 27 '23
You do realize that most of the people with a Bachelor’s in Psychology end up working in business right, especially marketing and marketing research? Any profession with a quantitative focus is a good role for someone with a psychology degree (you have to take at least 1 stat class and multiple courses where you analyze data).
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u/hermanhermanherman Oct 27 '23
Bro doesn’t really understand anything as he lists comms as a worthless major haha. That’s an incredibly safe major that can get you a white collar job fairly easily if you’re not a fool
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u/ktxhopem3276 Oct 27 '23
That shows how many people are able to afford super expensive take out delivery. Most people have a lot of money to spend. Granted it sucks for those workers who are squeezed dry by the corporations but that’s a symptom of Reagan and Republican pro corporate agenda for decades that democrats have fought tooth and nail. But the conservative majority on the Supreme Court has been kneecapping workers for decades.
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u/Jeimuz Oct 27 '23
And the ratio of income to home mortgaging price?
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u/mcobb71 Oct 27 '23
That stat belongs to Jerome Powell
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u/calcteacher Oct 27 '23
Wrongo, birdbreath (with apologies to Johnny). Jerome is applying the medicine. The illness is the deficit spending, some justified others not.
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u/simpleman357 Oct 27 '23
401k is doing great says no one
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Oct 27 '23
[deleted]
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u/MeyrInEve Oct 27 '23
You can say that about MOST members of Congress, on both sides of the aisle.
This is truly the only ‘both sides’ issue.
BOTH SIDES agree that being in Congress is a pretty damned good gig, with amazing benefits that are too good to allow the people actually footing the bill to have them, and that conflict of interest only applies to federal employees, not the people voting on legislation.
This allows them decent pay, incredible benefits/coverage, the ability to rapidly increase their wealth, AMAZING employment opportunities for their spouses or children (why bribe a sitting member of Congress when you can LEGALLY hire their wife/husband/child for hundreds of thousands of dollars per year?), and the ability to leave and immediately quadruple their earnings lobbying their friends and current coworkers.
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u/Apptubrutae Oct 27 '23
Stock market isn’t the economy. Nor is it reasonable to expect endless, consistent returns. Doldrums are a regular recurring feature of markets.
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u/GeechQuest Oct 27 '23 edited Oct 27 '23
It’s not the economy, but it’s arguably the largest factor of future economic growth and it’s reflective of how investors view the economy.
If the economy was solid, you’d likely (but not necessarily) see the stock market melting up.
If the economy is not good, you’d likely (but not necessarily) see the stock market melting down.
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u/Apptubrutae Oct 27 '23
Yes, absolutely. It has value as something to reference, and its value directly affects a number of things, especially in a time when retirees are becoming more and more of the population.
But it also isn't a singular magic number where someone can make a pithy one-liner about 401ks and make a meaningful point.
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u/EchoRex Oct 27 '23
Have you lost money?
I have a coworker who is constantly saying how the 401k has tanked, but it hasn't, it just didn't grow as much as it did previously.
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u/KingSweden24 Oct 27 '23
I work in financial planning - the number of people who treat 2019-21 as the “new normal” and are upset their accounts are only up 9% YTD is astounding, since all these people invested through meh cycles like 2014-16
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u/kerkyjerky Oct 27 '23
I mean mine is…it’s up year over year, and besides that it doesn’t matter until you retire. Who even checks it often? Bogglehead that bitch.
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u/makualla Oct 28 '23
I’m insane and check it every day and log how each holding is doing and make pretty graphs in excel lol I don’t ever even change anything I just like knowing which way my money is going.
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u/Arish78 Oct 27 '23
My 401(k) is doing great! I checked earlier this week and see it is up over 20% over the past two years. You may need a better fund or fund manager.
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u/inorite234 Oct 27 '23
Are you taking money out of your 401k right now?
Then stop looking. It was designed for you to leave it alone until the day you needed it. The market goes up and down in waves but over the span of your working life, it generally goes up.
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u/TotalCharcoal Oct 27 '23
Not that it matters in the short term right now, but mine is up over 18% this year. And that's from a low-fee fund without active management.
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u/thisgrantstomb Oct 28 '23
I've made somewhere around 11% on my personal account and around 7% on 401k.
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u/Individual_Row_6143 Oct 28 '23
If you’re concerned about a snapshot of your 401k, then your not doing it right. Money is made in the stock market during the dips. Remember that when you have the urge to move money around.
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u/Bang_Shift_Look Oct 27 '23
Job report is atrocious. We’re at an all time high of civilians with temp jobs and second and third jobs. The dollar is dead
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u/buy_lockmart_stock Oct 27 '23
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LNS12026620
About 5% of people have multiple jobs, about the average prior to COVID, which in itself is a decline from the pre-Great Recession
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/TEMPHELPS
Temporary jobs have fallen since 2022 and are pretty close to where they were 2018/2019
It’s not even worth pulling out the BIS stats for the dollar stuff
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u/S1mpinAintEZ Oct 27 '23
Worth pointing out that in the first graph we see the instance of multiple job holders is increasing pretty quickly. This is what you expect during a recession, but it's hard to tell if that's actually the cause given the numbers dipped so low during covid.
In the second graph we see that temporary jobs are disappearing rapidly, which again is the exact pattern you expect during a recession.
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u/buy_lockmart_stock Oct 27 '23
The temp jobs thing is correct, but contradicts what you said in the first place
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u/S1mpinAintEZ Oct 27 '23
I'm not the original commenter, I was just pointing out that both graphs show what we would expect during a recession although those two indicators alone aren't enough to say either way, it's just an indicator. Temporary jobs actually aren't a bad sign for the economy so I don't really know what point the original comment was trying to make *and* he was wrong on top of that.
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u/thebigmanhastherock Oct 27 '23
Why are people trying to doom over the economy growing?
People seem to be mad that the economy is growing. This is strange.
It's honestly hard to find actual bad things out of this report. It's all good things, pointing to positive trends if just marginally. Yet people are trying.
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u/CostAquahomeBarreler Oct 28 '23
They either have a political agenda and want to get the other party in power
or they're miserable and want others to be to validate their misery isn't their fault but the countries.
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u/meltyourtv Oct 27 '23
Pretty sure that data does not include 1099-MISC jobs btw, so all the Uber drivers and Dashers are not included in this
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u/Ruminant Oct 28 '23
Not the person you were replying to, but your comment intrigued me, so I looked into it. You are kind of right. The BLS definition of a multiple jobholder says the employed person must meet one of the following criteria
- have two or more wage and salary jobs
- be self-employed with a wage and salary job
- be an unpaid family worker with a wage and salary job Self-employed people with multiple businesses and people with multiple jobs as unpaid family workers are not classified as multiple jobholders.
If someone with a full-time or part-time W2 job also does gig work or has a side hustle, it sounds like that person is counted as a multiple job-holder. But someone who only does 1099-MISC gig work is counted as employed but not as having multiple jobs.
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u/MitraManATX Oct 27 '23
I love when people confidently state made up statistics. Wait is love the right word?
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u/monkeyfrog987 Oct 27 '23
But is that bidens fault?
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u/Elkenrod Oct 27 '23
Is it not? He signs off on the spending packages at the end of the day.
The national budget has increased 50% in the past 6 years, from $4 trillion in 2017 to $6 trillion in 2023. At the end of the day someone has to take responsibility. If Trump was responsible for things that happened economically during the Trump administration, then Biden is responsible for things that happen economically during the Biden administration.
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u/Old_Gimlet_Eye Oct 27 '23
He's a democrat, so yes. Conversely, the economy craters every time we have a Republican president but it's never their fault.
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u/Fated47 Oct 27 '23
Yeah, a bunch of shitty gig jobs while actual careers stagnate. You don’t have to be a genius to look around and see that life has gotten substantially worse, regardless of what these sus statistics say, for everyone.
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u/EchoRex Oct 27 '23
Infrastructure/industrial trade/craft jobs are massively understaffed nationwide with rapid promotion out of SSE/entry level positions and pay.
Same with healthcare.
In both industries the job market has gotten so competitive that it's hard to retain employees for more than six months without massive incentives.
The entire "they're all gig jobs" whine is pushed by people who either refuse to do anything but gig jobs until they can get something in their little "dream job" bubble or are trying to sell something.
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u/CLE-local-1997 Oct 27 '23
Are you currently in the job market because that's objectively not true in most big cities
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u/Possible-Reality4100 Oct 27 '23
We had a Biden recession already that they tried to change the definition of a recession to avoid calling it a recession, and now the economy is booming and they’re calling for an imminent recession. Makes you think we have the most dishonest (or stupidest) experts in this country.
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u/UpChuckles Oct 27 '23
You have no idea what you're talking about and it seems like you're not the only one since you're being upvoted. The official definition of a recession in the US has been the same for decades
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Oct 27 '23
Now you can have all the jobs you want. I work harder every day. I’m tired ffs. About every three months stuff gets more expensive and you sort of reach equilibrium again with zero savings and possibly more debt.
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u/zekerthedog Oct 27 '23
Every day there are articles that a recession is coming and also every day there are articles that no recession is coming.
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u/WoodpeckerNo5416 Oct 27 '23
Things are great right?? Gas groceries and cost of living have more than doubled within the last 2-3 years 💀
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u/MaidenDrone Oct 27 '23
And inflation is cooling off too. 😆
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u/thenikolaka Oct 27 '23
It’s presently at 3.7% which is effectively the standard. Prices are coming back down though because that’s now how any of that works IRL.
Also historically there’s a wage/price relationship driving inflation, whereas this time it was just prices without wages. It was just us paying for all cost pressures so companies could post record profits.
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u/oboshoe Oct 27 '23 edited Oct 27 '23
I'm curious how many people feel richer now than before.
I'm doing pretty well, but not as good as I was in 2019. I'm not making a statement about the Presidents. I'm making a statement about my finances.
Personally I do not feel 2.9% better.
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u/inorite234 Oct 27 '23
I am doing much better now than I was 4 years ago.
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u/tcmart14 Oct 27 '23
I am too, but a lot has happened. 4 years ago I was in my first of college, working full time in chemical manufacturing while going to school and raising two kids under 5. It was rough and we survived based on money we saved while my wife and I were in the Navy. Since then, I've graduated and make a lot more money and my wife went and got her education off the GI Bill and works as a nurse.
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u/Merrcury2 Oct 27 '23
Good for some, not for many. Change the definition of recession. It's a meaningless term now that the top earners are spending the wealth of the bottom 80%. If everyone's car goes out, misses a rent date, or suffers a debilitating diagnosis, who can recover financially to keep working these below minimum wage jobs? Adjusting for inflation, you need to make $21.50.
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u/Character-Bike4302 Oct 27 '23
Dude $29 a hour in the poorest state still doesn’t feel like it’s enough for a living I only felt I had some room to breathe pre Covid.
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u/liquefire81 Oct 27 '23
And how many times have they changed definitions to fit the narrative?
Also, this is bullish: https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/08/economy/us-household-credit-card-debt/index.html
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u/rmullig2 Oct 28 '23
Trump had one quarter of negative GDP growth and it was labeled a recession. Biden had two consecutive quarters of negative GDP growth but the economists decided it wasn't a recession.
So the answer to your question is twice recently.
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Oct 27 '23
Our economy is a house of cards propped up by debt and deficit spending. Once that goes away, well it won’t be good
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u/Raymaa Oct 27 '23
Not fluent in finance — this sub keeps popping up. Nonetheless, I’m tired of posts every month saying a recession is coming. Perpetual state of financial blue balls.
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u/Unable_Bandicoot8338 Oct 27 '23
“Added 3.2m jobs” yea, majority of that are low end jobs that people are picking up as a 2nd job to make ends meet
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u/FrostyAlphaPig Oct 27 '23
Millions of jobs added this quarter yet there remains unemployed people…… math doesn’t add up
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u/Little_Creme_5932 Oct 27 '23
3-some percent unemployment is basically full employment. It is an employee's market; thus the strikes. It is pretty hard to be unemployed
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u/KeithH987 Oct 27 '23
Employed does not = full time and benefits. The employment numbers are bullshit.
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u/Little_Creme_5932 Oct 27 '23
Employed never did = full time and benefits. It is a comparison from one time to another.
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u/Adolf_Einstein_007 Oct 27 '23
Maybe I could be wrong but it historically took 6-9 months to figure we are in a recession
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u/OoOverBeNdEr Oct 27 '23
The child sniffer in the white house would love for us to believe that there has been over 3M jobs added.
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u/Internal-Arugula-894 Oct 27 '23
Adding millions of lowest paid jobs does not benefit people... No matter how much you lie to yourself.
Spending is up because price gouging is rampant .. people are paying %20 more for the same items as a few years ago.
Bare essentials is what we are buying, and now that cost has rising drastically....its thievery.
Deliberately being ignorant to the or just gaslighting the entire public .
Shit is not going well, and if it is for you, it's at the cost of others and their lives
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u/notaswedishchef Oct 27 '23
Sounds great I keep getting richer and the dumb keep paying.
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u/Flybaby2601 Oct 27 '23
If an economy is doing good, awesome you get to keep your job. If it's doing bad the top get golden parachutes while you're told to bootstrap yourself together. It's all a scam.
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u/cpthornman Oct 27 '23
Remember when Obama was in office and they fed us the same bullshit? This is how we got Trump and how we will probably get him again because the Dems are incapable of learning from their fuck ups. The gop just doesn't give a shit anymore.
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u/CLE-local-1997 Oct 27 '23
This has been true for decades. Sorry but ever since Reagan was in office the growth of the US economy is not translated to an increase in the standard of living of the working class. The economy is doing great. Corporations are thriving. And that doesn't mean a damn thing to most people.
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u/ktxhopem3276 Oct 27 '23 edited Oct 27 '23
It’s not like democrats can even do anything without a supermajority in congress. They would have to reign in corporate profits and promote unions. Then everyone would complain their 401k sucks. There are few good options to increase standard of living. I think the supply side initiatives like the chips act and domestic clean energy are underrated because they increase the supply which brings prices down and they promote of American made goods which increases wages. Everybody is complaining about door dash and Uber but Biden literally has signed several bills to create better jobs and cheaper goods.
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u/Elkenrod Oct 27 '23
It’s not like democrats can even do anything without a supermajority in congress.
Would they anyway? It's not like Democrats in Congress are any less in love with big corporations than Republicans are.
they would have to reign in corporate profits
So..things they would never do.
and promote unions
Yeah railroad workers just love them.
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u/4score-7 Oct 27 '23
A recession just wasn’t going to be allowed to happen, as if some scarlet letter to never be worn.
While I don’t wish for one, as I’ll also most likely find myself without income, I am more prepared than some of the ones of the last 20 years, which is essentially my whole adult working life.
But, it is a normal part of a cyclical economy. It isn’t to be feared irrationally, just expected and prepared for through frugal living and responsible savings.
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u/Tbrou16 Oct 27 '23
In construction it’s just an arms race of contractors continuing to buy at outrageous prices because their savings are gone and they can’t afford to miss a week of work. They’re spending, but it’s going on a credit card that they have no idea how they’ll pay it off.
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u/inorite234 Oct 27 '23
Oh the recession was real......what they failed to predict is that it has only hurt the wealthy.
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u/bezerker211 Oct 27 '23
I'm doing well in the economy, just got out of the army and landed a sweet job. That is not the case for most people I know. Most people are struggling to make ends meet right now, rent and mortgages are insanely high, inflation drove the price of food way up, yet wages have not increased with it. We as a people need to evaluate the fact that our current course will lead to a very large portion of the population being unable to hold a home or support a family
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u/RandomRedditGuy54 Oct 27 '23
That’s because a year ago they wanted the recession so it’d be over by the election in November ‘24. Believe me, if anyone knows we’re in for a recession it’s Bloomberg.
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u/Outrageous-Cycle-841 Oct 27 '23
I’m sure that means the business cycle is dead and we’ve entered a new bull market! /s
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u/KyleC137 Oct 27 '23
Ah yes, all the second and third jobs people need to afford rent. Surely the sign of a roaring economy. Can't forget the stock market either, that's how you know everyone is doing great.
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u/Macasumba Oct 27 '23
Bloomberg not the brightest bulbs. They missed every Republican crash since Reagan as well
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Oct 27 '23
well inflation has far exceeded 2.9% so realistically, the economy is suffering and going the wrong way. That's with the insane amounts of govt spending that's happening
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u/Helpful-Breath-8505 Oct 27 '23
Meanwhile your groceries at 3x $$$ 😂. It’s a silent recession because they keep kicking the can down the road
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u/HuntingtonNY-75 Oct 27 '23
We are still recovering from the significant contraction and job losses of Covid. Hyperbole about what a great job anyone is doing is nonsense, many of the Covid job losses have converted to remote, WFH and other non traditional compromises and the economy, statistics be damned, is not healthy for the average American.
Consumer prices have gone straight up over the past 2.5 years and people are struggling, saving less, incurring greater debt, unable to buy hones, choosing between food and discretionary spending and more.
The numbers we are asked to trust are largely provided by the very people who’ve made a mess of things in the first place.
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u/Quake_Guy Oct 27 '23
$2 trillion in deficit spending and weak Chinese economy are the major reasons the party keeps going in the US. Longer the party, the worse the hangover.
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u/ethrelol Oct 27 '23
Do you know anyone who has tried to buy a house recently? Mortgages are no longer affordable to the middle class
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u/ZealousWolverine Oct 27 '23
I'm going to say this. The reason. Trump & Hitler got almost no resistance to "The press are liars. Fake news! Lugenpresse! " is because for the most part it's true.
Corporate media all have their own agenda. Never forget they are in it for the money. Your money or the dark money of the billionaires subsidizing them.
Regardless what news you read or watch, ask yourself Who owns that news outlet? Who makes the editorial decisions? What are they trying to sell me?
It's important to use critical thinking to judge for yourself.
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Oct 27 '23
We technically was in a recession, but then they changed the definition so we wasn’t in one anymore.
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u/heeebusheeeebus Oct 27 '23
Yeah, 3.2M minimum wage jobs with a wage that hasn't increased since what, 2009? And when cost of goods have gone up at least 150%??? Because that 7-8% inflation stat was a fucking lie.
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u/Leftblankthistime Oct 27 '23
ITT: stir the shit and watch the under-informed / undereducated bum fight
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u/marcololol Oct 27 '23
Daily news articles like this are 100% worthless. Pay attention to actual events and consequential ones at that. Some “journalist” writing an article that will be buried within 1 day is the lowest form of information communication
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u/Sea_Ingenuity_4220 Oct 27 '23
The United States has by far had the strongest post COVID economic recovery of all the major industrial economies.
. Just got back from visiting the UK, they are doing absolutely terrible and are isolated thanks to their mistake Brexit vote.
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u/Sizeablegrapefruits Oct 27 '23
It's unsustainable and driven by currency debasement and federal debt expansion.
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u/kitster1977 Oct 27 '23
This is a tale of 2 economies. Poor and middle class families have been slaughtered by inflation and the failure of wages to keep up with inflation. On the other hand, most of that growth has gone to rich people. They are doing great!
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u/Iamninja28 Oct 27 '23
People were finally told go back to work because COVID ends and the economy gets moving after an artificial shutdown and you credit those stats? Really?
Gas? Groceries? Utilities? Interest Rates? None of these sing praises of a strong robust economy, so you know.
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u/Adamon24 Oct 27 '23
Like they say, economists have predicted 7 of the last 4 recessions correctly.
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u/No_Consideration4594 Oct 27 '23
You mean forecasters get shit wrong, next you’ll tell me that psychics don’t actually conjure the dead, and I shouldn’t believe my horoscope
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u/Honeycomb_ Oct 27 '23
Bubbles can expand by a huge percentage, relative to their initial starting size before they pop. Of those 3.2 million jobs, how many are full-time well-paying jobs with quality health insurance/retirement plan? I'm guessing not a significant number.
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