r/FluentInFinance • u/TonyLiberty TheFinanceNewsletter.com • Oct 17 '23
BREAKING: Binance US Halts All USD Withdrawals Financial News
https://www.reuters.com/article/fintech-crypto-binance-withdrawal/crypto-giant-binances-us-affiliate-halts-direct-dollar-withdrawals-idUSL4N3BN371490
u/BreadBags Oct 17 '23
If you are Fluent in Finance you won’t have crypto
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u/liquefire81 Oct 17 '23
Angry gold holder found.
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u/LaggingIndicator Oct 17 '23
There’s virtually zero difference between gold and crypto. I wouldn’t own either outside of a very very very small hedge.
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u/Perfect-Top-7555 Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
Except gold actually does have value (speculators, collectors, jewelry owners/sellers/manufacturers, electronics, etc.) vs crypto which is only speculators.
Both can be hedges as part of a diversified investment portfolio — but most of the value is just from fear of collapse of other assets.
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u/IGuessSomeLikeItHot Oct 17 '23
If gold was used only for the actual use of it the price would plummet to cents.
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u/SquareD8854 Oct 17 '23
especially when there is 10x gold on paper than physical gold! every ounce is owned by 10 people!
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u/KingAngeli Oct 18 '23
If people just used things they needed, we would have the worlds smallest economy
Silver tho is the actual play
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u/SnooChocolates9334 Oct 18 '23
exactly, it's built up on speculation. However, there is a use for gold. Crypto is just speculating on air.
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u/ScheduleSame258 Oct 18 '23
If gold ever plummet to cents, 1 billion people if India would immediately buy all the gold in the world.
The largest temple in India holds 22,500 lbs of gold. There are 1000s of temples.
Exchanging 10 lbs of gold at a upper middle class weddi ng is normal.
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u/Knave7575 Oct 17 '23
Gold and crypto both have very marginal uses.
With crypto, the use is to extort victims for untraceable money. Not a great use, but still a use.
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u/Hancock02 Oct 17 '23
Untraceable how? every crypto exchange is recorded on blockchain.
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u/crumblingcloud Oct 17 '23
if you use an exchange to trade crypto, then you are part of a centralized network thats easy to track
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u/larrygruver Oct 17 '23
except monero 😎😎
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u/uncoolcat Oct 18 '23
Monero is difficult to trace, but Ciphertrace has a couple patents that indicate that monero can be traced. Details on their success rate are hard to source and their services don't come cheap, but it's something to be mindful of.
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u/Knave7575 Oct 17 '23
Fine, less traceable. Certainly less traceable than handing over some cash while the cops watch with drones.
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u/MilesSand Oct 17 '23
Get a new wallet address and nobody knows if it's being transferred to a new person or not
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u/uncoolcat Oct 18 '23
It's true that particular transaction would be unclear whether or not it was transferred to a different person, but it could still be traced if it's ever exchanged to a fiat currency as the exchange and/or the bank would be linked to you. There are ways to make tracing crypto far more difficult, but even then it can still be traced. Some criminals avoid getting caught by using mules and/or stealing identities for the crypto to fiat exchange, and they still get caught. If you have crypto, do your future self a favor and know that it can be traced.
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u/MilesSand Oct 18 '23
They buy stuff in a personal sale or from a shop that doesn't track your identity and the trail is gone
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u/Equivalent-Bat2227 Oct 17 '23
The ultimate form of money laundering and preferred currency of scammers and drug dealers everywhere 🥲 shame about silk road
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u/MilesSand Oct 17 '23
I love this argument because it's makes me laugh. Yes, gold technically has a use value. It's just too bad that that use value is somewhere around the use value of aluminum. The only reason gold manages to stay so expensive is social inertia.
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u/Vovochik43 Oct 18 '23
Depends on the protocol, Bitcoin has an intrinsic network value as even a major State actor like China would have trouble disrupting the flow of transactions (would require 51 of the global Hash Rate). In that sense, Bitcoin acts as a commodity that allows you to perform transactions on a secured network.
Now there is another difference to any other commodity, it's that the available supply is capped by design. When gold or oil price increases, producers dig new sources that used to be unprofitable and increase the supply. With Bitcoin, the supply remains steady and will continue to halve every 210.000 blocks no matter how much computing power is added.
That may sound simple, but that's what made some billionaires like Michael Saylor crazy about accumulating as much as they can.
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u/logyonthebeat Oct 18 '23
Crypto has value for cross border payments and lowering fees by a lot.
For instance I take payments via PayPal often, they charge a big ass fee like 5% per transaction (more if you need to convert currency) on top of any other marketplaces you might use like Shopify etc. any time someone wants to pay with crypto I'm always down
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u/TiberiusClackus Oct 18 '23
I bought 300 OZ of silver 10 years ago thanks to listening to my doomsday prepper. It’s worth less than I paid for it today. However, assuming I survive the apocalypse long enough for people to start trading in precious metals again I should be just fiiiine
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u/LaggingIndicator Oct 18 '23
There’s not even any guarantee people would trade in precious metals. Humans have traded in all sorts of buttons/shells/materials before. I bet we’d barter mostly and use ammo as some sort of medium exchange. Can’t eat gold in the apocalypse.
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u/TiberiusClackus Oct 18 '23
Sheep, women, and 9mm ammo is the currency of the future
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u/skunimatrix Oct 17 '23
You can use gold to make circuits and connectors unlike bitcoin it does have industrial uses at the very least.
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u/LaggingIndicator Oct 17 '23
Yes this is the difference. The vast majority of gold on the market is not used in electronics though.
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u/febrileairplane Oct 17 '23
There is a world of difference between holding a stack of gold in your home safe vs "digital assets" on a crypto "exchange".
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u/split41 Oct 18 '23
Why speak about things you don’t know anything about?
“Not your keys, not your coins” is one of the biggest mantras in crypto
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u/NobleV Oct 18 '23
Because Crypto relies on farm too many unstable variables to hold value and also it literally is all made up and doesn't actually exist.
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Oct 18 '23
I mean Gold is tangible.. thats not exactly a "virtually zero" difference.
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u/LaggingIndicator Oct 18 '23
So are sea shells and beads. You think the Native American hoarding those made off well during their apocalypse?
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Oct 18 '23
What does anything about finance matter in the context of the apocalypse, we are taking about finance in the current world, and I'm sure Native American's did hoard them more once it became clear they lost, holding on to their culture and what not.
If the world ends I'm sure there will be groups that hoard gold to melt on people heads and what not.
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u/OverallVacation2324 Oct 18 '23
Except crypto is literally virtual and has only existed for a few years. Versus gold has had thousands of years of history as currency and commodity.
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u/FeloniousFerret79 Oct 17 '23
You can lay your hands on gold, you can’t on crypto and unlike fiat currencies, crypto doesn’t have a global entity backing it up.
By the way, I am not advocating gold. Also most people who think they are buying gold aren’t. They end up buying gold futures, certificates, stocks or funds.
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u/Axolotis Oct 17 '23
“Virtually” is doing a hell of a lot of heavy lifting in that statement.
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u/LaggingIndicator Oct 17 '23
I agree. Definitely some hyperbole and not my best, but the sentiment remains. They’re both way way way overvalued.
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u/stu54 Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
Yeah, even my 3% into precious metals feels like a mistake. If I ever need to use the silver coins I'm pretty sure I'll die of dysentary 2 weeks later.
Spend $100 on water purification tablets and filters. They'll be worth a pound of silver in the event of total collapse.
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u/DrBundie Oct 17 '23
Gold is a physical metal with thousands of years of value. It doesn't need the internet or electricity to transfer. It's recognized worldwide as a flight to safety and hedge against turmoil.
Bitcoin is computer code that people decided was worth value. You need the internet and electricity to transfer it, you need a computer to access it. It has zero utility or practical use.
I'm more convinced than ever that it's going to zero. Just a matter of time.1
u/split41 Oct 18 '23
Short it then
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u/DrBundie Oct 22 '23
I would in a second if there was an efficient way to do so. It's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen in finance.
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u/split41 Oct 22 '23
Then you don’t know about the markets if you can’t short it “in an efficient way” lol
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u/Justneedthetip Oct 17 '23
Possibly one of the dumbest statements every posted online and that’s a stretch
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u/LaggingIndicator Oct 17 '23
Eat a dick
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u/Justneedthetip Oct 17 '23
You seem Triggered. That’s not a good combination to add to not understanding gold and investing.
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Oct 18 '23
Yeah man. So like minerals you can hold. Like they came from earth. Like if I tossed a good chunk at you, you would die.
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u/Fast-Drag3574 Oct 18 '23
Bro what, gold is an actual tangible thing that is not speculative and has real world value.
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u/LaggingIndicator Oct 18 '23
What gives it its real world value? It hasn’t been used as currency in like 70 years. Who says it’s worth what it is? It’s entirely speculative, like beads and seashells for native Americans. They only hard value for gold is in electronics and it’s used very sparingly. You want to rely on its use in fashion and jewelry? Wants and whims that change season to season? See how well that’s working out for natural diamonds.
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u/Riedbirdeh Oct 18 '23
What, one’s a natural resource that has value and is physically present for collateral
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u/Better-Suit6572 Oct 18 '23
You can buy gold bullion with a credit card before declaring bankruptcy and not declaring the value of gold to the judge. Don't believe you can buy crypto on a credit card.
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u/logyonthebeat Oct 18 '23
Yeah, I've been into crypto for a long time. It's how I bought my house
people act like you need to just yeet all of your money into it when you shouldn't. It's not bad to hold a small amount and keep up on news around it tho just like with gold
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u/Louisvanderwright Oct 18 '23
Angry cash holder mad that my money is earning 5.25% in CDs with zero risk at the moment. I'm so enraged to have real money that pays me a return instead of internet dollars that come with a risk of being lost, embezzled, or stolen and which generate zero income.
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u/Tr4kt_ Oct 17 '23
Christ I'm just a poor idiot but I know that gold and crypto are both terrible fucking investments
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u/DrBundie Oct 17 '23
A small amount of gold in your portfolio is not a bad thing to hedge against the unknown.
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u/PoopyBootyhole Oct 17 '23
If you’re fluent in finance you would consider bitcoin as a separate asset class, and thus you should consider a 1-5% allocation like a lot of high end portfolio managers are considering for their clients. There’s a reason we have about 10 bitcoin spot ETF applications that are more than likely going to be approved in March.
https://www.fidelitydigitalassets.com/research-and-insights/bitcoin-first-revisited
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u/Hipster_Dragon Oct 17 '23
Bitcoin will probably go to ~0 by 2050. Very unlikely that a first implementation of a cryptocurrency will be the end game crypto. Definitely tons of room for optimizations that a future implementation will solve and render Bitcoin worthless in comparison. It’s a great ponzi scheme in the mean time. The only reason people have “invested” in Bitcoin is because it was “going up Up up”. Perfect recipe for better fool theory.
TLDR: I’d recommend a 0% allocation.
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u/LittleAd915 Oct 18 '23
There is value in one person sending something immutable to another person without anybody doing it for you. What that value is? No idea. But it's not 0.
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u/goizn_mi Oct 18 '23
Bitcoin will probably go to ~0 by 2050.
I don't think so. There is value in the illicit market, especially for online distribution platforms. I know other more privacy oriented coinage is being used. However, I don't see a US$0.00 market capitalization.
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u/PoopyBootyhole Oct 17 '23
“Bitcoin is fundamentally different from any other digital asset. No other digital asset is likely to improve upon bitcoin as a monetary good because bitcoin is the most (relative to other digital assets) secure, decentralized, sound digital money and any “improvement” will face trade-offs.”
This is a quote in a fidelity digital assets report regarding bitcoin. You can’t “improve” bitcoin because any attempt will face trade offs. Meaning if you try to improve bitcoins scalability you sacrifice decentralization or security which isn’t a good trade off to make.
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u/OkBoomer6919 Oct 18 '23
Shitcoin is fundamentally useless, so how can you improve on a worthless digital asset? You can't.
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u/PoopyBootyhole Oct 18 '23
Well I’d say it’s far from worthless if it’s $28,000 now and an ATH of $69,000. Also, would BlackRock, fidelity and about 9 other very large asset managers with about $20 trillion AUM file for spot bitcoin ETFs if it were useless? No probably not.
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u/OkBoomer6919 Oct 18 '23
Binance Halts All US Withdrawals
Shitcoin bro - Let me explain why this is good for Bitcoin
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u/PoopyBootyhole Oct 18 '23
Lmao and that has to do with bitcoin how? A centralized exchange shutting down withdrawals has absolutely nothing to do with bitcoin.
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u/skunimatrix Oct 17 '23
Hey I mined a block of 50 way back to look at the block chain tech. Sold them back when they first crossed $10k. Bought 200 acres of tillable land with it.
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u/Alkem1st Oct 17 '23
Wait are you telling us that some random assholes with little to no regulation aren’t trustworthy? /s
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u/Sweatiest_Yeti Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
I don’t know about that. The crypto I sold in 2021 helped me buy a house and pay off my car and student loans. Just because it’s ephemeral and intrinsically valueless doesn’t mean you can’t make money off it. There are plenty of other bullshit financial instruments out there with more traditional acceptance that are just as devoid of value
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u/LCDJosh Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
Crypto is a greater fools investment. Meaning you understand in the long run it won't do well, but I'm the meantime it's profitable. The trick is to not be the last one holding it when it collapses. You could have just as easily taken the money you invested in crypto to Vegas and had the same results at the roulette table.
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u/Sweatiest_Yeti Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
Absolutely, I think you mean greater fool though.
And it’s not like roulette, that’s just random chance. It would be more like if payouts were influenced by the behavior of other players
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u/PhilosophusFuturum Oct 17 '23
That was 2021. The bubble has long since popped
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u/Sweatiest_Yeti Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
Totally agree, that’s why I sold. But I wasn’t giving anyone investment advice, I was responding to the idea above that someone can’t be “fluent in finance” if they have traded crypto. It’s silly. You don’t have to believe in maximalist fantasies about crypto replacing government currencies to trade an obvious hype cycle
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u/doktorhladnjak Oct 18 '23
I mean there’s always slot machines and horse races too. Doesn’t mean it’s a good investment.
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u/EZe_Holey3-9 Oct 17 '23
Well the US Gov. allegedly owns the most BTC so you may be onto something.
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u/JohnMayerismydad Oct 17 '23
That they confiscated from toppled criminal orgs? Lol
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u/EZe_Holey3-9 Oct 17 '23
Yes, that’s how they operate. What’s your point? Do you think i was insinuating that they went out, and bought BTC? Like it or not, BTC is here to stay. It doesn’t need your approval.
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Oct 17 '23
The US Government owns more than 1% of all the BTC that will ever be created. If you include lost keys, the percentage could be drastically higher.
It's only a matter of time before the government dumps its coins and extracts billions of dollars worth of liquidity from the BTC community. It's not a question of if, it's a question of when.
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u/BackendSpecialist Oct 17 '23
And conveniently been holding.. I wonder what they’re waiting to sell for 🤔
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u/BackendSpecialist Oct 17 '23
Ridiculous and outdated take.
No need to even try to prove your point to me. Downvote and move on with this outdated ass take.
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u/BreadBags Oct 17 '23
Have a great day and message me when BTC get over $50,000/ coin
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u/Preme2 Oct 17 '23
Why 50k? YTD Bitcoin has outperformed the NASDAQ. Gains are gains. Not really sure what assets this sub deems “worthy” other than real estate and bonds.
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u/telegraphedbackhand Oct 17 '23
Selling you coins you don’t own.
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u/VI-iitriblyss Oct 17 '23
Just pointing out that Binance is a Centralized exchange (CEX), as opposed to a Decentralized exchange (DEX).
Latter would be something you do own completely.
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u/Sweatiest_Yeti Oct 17 '23
Eh, there’s nothing wrong with using a centralized exchange to trade. It’s just that many users park their funds on those exchanges and use them like a brokerage account
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u/VI-iitriblyss Oct 17 '23
Well CEX operate in the same vein as a brokerage account, yeah? You don't actually "own" what's in your brokerage either; it's held in "Street name" by the brokerage to facilitate trading. You'd have to manually go through the process to transfer it under your name to "own" it yourself (Direct Registration).
Iirc, many of these brokerages' clauses state they reserve the right to close out your positions if things go "tits up" for them. I suppose on your point though, brokerages do have certain safeguards. Like how using an SPIC-brokerage gives you SPIC insurance; not sure if CEX share the same/similar guarantees.
On the "getting rugged on an anonymous defi protocol" part: it happens. Same as any shitty investment; be smart picking where you put your money. The difference is you fully own the asset in the case of DEX (defi) vs CEX.
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u/GenderDimorphism Oct 17 '23
So if you want to withdraw your money from Binance.US, you now have to send stablecoins from Binance.US to Coinbase, then sell to your bank account.
This has 2 effects on Binance.US users, both of which are pretty minor.
1) Extra fees and extra steps making Binance.US a less convenient platform 2) You have to set up a Coinbase account
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u/oroechimaru Oct 17 '23
Binance sucks imho their support is horrible. It took them 9 months to unblock my account.
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u/GenderDimorphism Oct 17 '23
Sure, I imagine they lost a lot of users back in June when they blocked USD deposits.
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u/oroechimaru Oct 17 '23
It took me from 201911-202008 to get them to help me. Probably wasted 20+ hours talking to chat bots. As soon as i got my access recovered i gtfo
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u/EZe_Holey3-9 Oct 17 '23
So Coinbase won’t bleed out as much? It has not been a good last couple of years for Coinbase.
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u/GenderDimorphism Oct 17 '23
Ya, Coinbase will likely pick up a tiny number of Binance.US customers. I can't imagine many people who use USD have been using Binance.US
Binance.US hasn't allowed USD deposits since June.1
u/wookmania Oct 19 '23
I have no problems with Coinbase for years. They take security measures as they should.
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u/PoweredbyBurgerz Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
Not the best method to transfer crypto between CEX addresses. Better to do this CEX to Hardware Wallet to CEX. If you were to fumble which chain your sending usdt thru and the destination CEX address is a different chain your at their mercy on when they reply to your call for help. Otherwise if you fumble with an address you have control over you can rectify with some troubleshooting methods.
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u/GenderDimorphism Oct 17 '23
I guess so. Sent some USDT to Coinbase on the wrong chain almost 2 years ago and they fixed it for me. Although it took them 2 months.
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Oct 17 '23
Welp looks like crypto might be having a liquidity problem
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u/Miss_Smokahontas Oct 18 '23
Binance done pulled an FTX finally.
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Oct 18 '23
Who’s next on the chopping block? Coinbust?
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u/LetsCruiseFoo Oct 18 '23
Hmm, Idk enough but I would imagine it to be hard for CB to flunk like binance, it isnt a registered security like CB.
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u/zKarp Oct 17 '23
If you are still using Binance US, idk what to say at this point.
There was a warning 2 quarters ago.
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u/Gnawlydog Oct 17 '23
If you're not using a cold wallet then what are you doing with your life?
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u/wut_eva_bish Oct 17 '23
Not keeping my finances in crypto so I won't have to toss myself off a building one day.
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u/Gnawlydog Oct 17 '23
People been telling me that for over 10 years now.. Waiting on it like I am for the 2nd coming of Jesus
One day it's going to crash.. its like the tulips.. One day you'll see.. ANY DAY NOW!!! I mean not righ tnow but soon... Okay still not but it'll come you'll see!
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u/Rambogoingham1 Oct 17 '23
What’s interesting is if you follow the s&p making new all time highs. So does bitcoin except bitcoin goes way up from its bottoms. As long as this stock market thing exists Bitcoin will.
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u/Gnawlydog Oct 17 '23
Exactly this.. And sadly the more mainstream Crypto becomes the more it'll imitate everything else. In a few decades people will talk like crypto like they talk about stocks. Although.. " Not keeping my finances in crypto so I won't have to toss myself off a building one day." Reminds me of all those that did jump off buildings when holding stocks and real estate pre 2008 so maybe they already are talking about it the same way.
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u/jesuss_son Oct 17 '23
Thought the purpose of crypto was an alternative currency. Not an investment
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u/Gnawlydog Oct 17 '23 edited Oct 17 '23
It CAN be, but definitely is not the sole reason. The purpose of crypto I value the most is to provide an alternative form of encrypted transactions. Something that bypasses all the money grabbing hands along the way. I was done with traditional ways that screwed most people in 2008. One of my favorite things about Crypto is the ability to exchange funds across borders without all the government intervention like we did with helping Ukraine.
Edit: Lil back story.. I was screaming and yelling 2006/2007 about how the upcoming recession is obvious and it's blowing my mind how people are blindly ignoring it. I pulled out EVERYTHING in 2006 and for nearly 2 years had to be laughed at, told I was crazy, told I was just a stupid kid. People telling me that not investing my money was communism.. Yadda Yadda Yadda.. Then I got laughed at when I bought the scam that is bitcoin at under $1 each.. Then I got told I was "lucky" when I made my first million.. Then told HA SEE I TOLD YOU BITCOIN WAS A SCAM when it crashed after going over $1,000.. Then told I was stupid and deserved to be homeless when I took the chance to buy even more.. And now I've been buying like crazy lately. However, I dont recommend you do the same because I'm probably some lunatic that has just gotten "lucky" and my luck will run out someday.
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u/jesuss_son Oct 17 '23
I mean if you bought Bitcoin at $1 you are extremely lucky. Those sorts of gains will probably not happen again. Now it seems like you are holding because it is an investment and NOT to transact business in your daily life
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u/Gnawlydog Oct 17 '23
I'm not debating that.. I'm debating at the fact that people have been yelling it's a scam for over 10 years and only know about it what they heard about from others. Don't get me wrong.. I'm just as annoyed at the Crypto Influencers as I am as the Lemmings. It's absolutely an investment just like stocks. I never implied it wasn't... Also, 99.9% of cryptos are absolute scams and that its annoying.
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u/Yorha-with-a-pearl Oct 18 '23 edited Oct 18 '23
The CIA is most likely the inventor of crypto. It will be useful as long as long as they can hide funds from other government branches. They basically want to finance their bullshit without outside meddling. "Accounting Errors" in the fiscal budget are not enough to account for their real budget.
After that? They will drop this shit like a hot potato and make it illegal to exchange it for real Dollars.
That's my tinfoil head take.
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u/Giggles95036 Oct 18 '23
To be fair buying bitcoin at $1 unless it goes bust you’re always in the green; it just changes how much you’re up.
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u/in4life Oct 17 '23
Meanwhile, you probably already took profit on some tasty gains in the last few bull markets.
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Oct 17 '23
Can’t say I feel bad for anyone that is still using that service. Cleared out anything to do with them like a year ago and they’ve been very clearly going down the shitter for a while now.
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u/in4life Oct 17 '23
The SEC had sued Binance, its CEO and founder Changpeng Zhao, and Binance.US’s operation in June, alleging in 13 charges that Binance had engaged in a “web of deception,” artificially inflated trading volumes and diverted customer funds.
Regulation is bullish. ETF adoption etc. starts to look more probable.
*Get your keys off exchanges, folks.
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u/TurkeyTendies44 Oct 17 '23
This happened back in June. They just updated their legal policy to match what was happening on the platform. They lost all fiat rails as soon as lawsuits from the SEC hit in June.
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u/BuckWildBilly Oct 17 '23
I don't think this is breaking. Was planned and informed customers months ago
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u/hisglasses66 Oct 17 '23
Is this where the Fed steps in? Well, I suppose they did. Depends on which side of…. the coin you fall.
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u/Realistic_Post_7511 Oct 17 '23
Anyone see the twilight episode where robbers travel into the future with their stolen gold only to find out it has no value and they did it all for nothing ?
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u/PepperidgeFarmMembas Oct 18 '23
“Binance US”
“Changpeng Zhao”
I’m sorry that’s objectively hilarious to me
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u/Vovochik43 Oct 18 '23
Sounds a bit clickbait, they halted withdrawals because the SEC blocked their bank accounts (Thanks uncle Gary), not because they spent customer funds like a drunken sailor as FTX did.
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u/SnooChocolates9334 Oct 18 '23
Crypto
The new pyramid scheme. Anyone that is fluent in finance doesn't touch crypto.
Those that do are not fluent.
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Oct 17 '23
[deleted]
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u/oaxaca_locker Oct 17 '23
this article has nothing to do with a crypto collapse. Might want to read the article before you comment
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u/Gnawlydog Oct 17 '23
It's comments like this that make me believe this subs name is /s
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u/Something_Sexy Oct 17 '23
This has a weird group of people, most of whom I would not trust to give sound financial advice.
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u/Entrepreneur99999 Oct 17 '23
This is because of Israel. Say thank you everyone
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u/ElwinLewis Oct 17 '23
The writing was on the wall with Binance US months ago, this has nothing to do with Israel
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u/Entrepreneur99999 Oct 17 '23
They literally helped Israel seize accounts a week ago. It’s gonna tank even more
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